PFRPG Popularity

[Colonel Wolfe]

Where do you think PFRPG ranks in terms of overall fantasy gaming popularity? I mean, I know they're not up as high as D&D, but I would think they have to be top 5.

I mean, you've got Rolemaster, the Warhammer RPG, Sword and Sorcery, GURPS Fantasy....I have to think PFRPG does better than at least most of those....

Rarely dose anyone Challange D&D in the RPG market.
D&D would be the #1 fantasy in most books...
After that... Gurps Fantasy might be a #2... (well it is a big #2)
Roll Master is so complicated i dont think i've even seen it played.

PFRPG is a Strong Fantasy RPG... but I dont know about the Exposure... Palladium is better known for Rifts (and back in the old days Robotech and TMNT).if Palladium Suppoertd PFRPG just a bit more it could be a Contendet with for a Solid #2...

[J. Lionheart]

I believe last time they posted results from a broad survey on the matter, Paladium was third. That may have been accross all genres, not just fantasy though, I can't remember.

[Guest]

With the advent of Hackmaster I'd have to say that PFRPG has definately gone down the list.

Having gotten Hackmaster, I can see why.

[Colonel Wolfe]

With the advent of Hackmaster I'd have to say that PFRPG has definately gone down the list.

Having gotten Hackmaster, I can see why.

I Liked the Hackmaster stuff... beside the Obviously Twisted side to it... when played Seriously its not a bad game... even ol' EGG like what Kenzer did with 1st and 2nd ed.

[Colonel Wolfe]

With the advent of Hackmaster I'd have to say that PFRPG has definately gone down the list.

Having gotten Hackmaster, I can see why.

You really think Hackmaster is up that high? Huh--guess I'm out of sync.

Hackmaster is Quite good.

[Colonel Wolfe]

It really all depends on what wizards (chasing the $) what they are up to and how the public warm to 4th edition, or not & what stuff they then release to back it up. It also depends on how well D&D online does, it it does half as well as everquest then wizards may well drop D&D all together and just sell the d20 licence.

it really depends on Hasbro... they are the behind alot of the bad stuff Wotc dose. Wizards Printed the First 2 printings of D&D 3rd ed. at a Loss.... the 19.99 price was 5 bucks below the actual cover price.
3.5 edition salse were about 20% below 3.0 sales, in terms of Core books... i dont think they will make a 4th ed. for quite some years.
D&D online might be okay.... if it weren't based on ebberon.

This could well mean Palladium Fantasy might get bigger? Living in a moderatly sized city in Australia players & directors would number around 60. Its not all that big, but it could get a lot bigger

Rifts will get bigger... but unless palladium makes books for PF... they need another Bill Coffin... maybe 3 of them.. and making about 5 PFRPG books a year.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Yes I agree that they need to put some more stuff for PF, a good chunky book of adventures. Or even a few small ones like that in Rifts.

Rifts is very popular here but then it dosn't have a lot of rivals. d20 Modern & d20 Traveller didn't do so well here. Rifts is King as fi as SiFi Rpg

its the complete opposite here.. Rifts is "whats that?" or "I played that once.. to powerful(munchkin)"...
The Sci-fi RPGs is ruled aroun here by Starwars D6... not hard sci-fi.. but people still love it.

[Chuck Lang]

I have pretty much lost all interest in playing and DMing D&D. It just doesn't have the feel I want for my campaigns and most of the players in this area construct their characters solely for combat purposes.

In the area I live D20 rates as number one in sales, after that would be PFRPG, followed by GURPS, and then Hackmaster. I shouldn't even count Hackmaster because we haven't sold any of that for years and it has all ended up in the discount bins (between 50% and 75% off). Come to think of it, we rarely sell GURPS. PFRPG usually has a steady purchasing flow.

1. D&D
2. PFRPG
3. GURPS
4. Hackmaster
5. (Insert whatever game you want here)

[Colonel Wolfe]

I have pretty much lost all interest in playing and DMing D&D. It just doesn't have the feel I want for my campaigns and most of the players in this area construct their characters solely for combat purposes.

thats the tell-tale sign of Bad Gming or a Roll-Player. I've broken several of the "Combat wonks" who basically rely on the sword to talk. Combat is a good 50%-75% of a Duengeon advanture, and 50-60% of a Wildreness one... but beside these thing, Encounters get very complicated... its a Hobo, and he is asking you for Directions to the nearest Village! what to do? i didnt take any skills on Navigation or Area Knowledge!!!! and my IQ/INT is 7!!! darn my 18+ physical stats!

[Chuck Lang]

thats the tell-tale sign of Bad Gming or a Roll-Player. I've broken several of the "Combat wonks" who basically rely on the sword to talk.

Rather than tagging it on "good" or "bad" GMs or players, I would consider both a style of gaming.

Some people like strictly combat. Some people like strictly roleplaying. Others like a mix of both elements.

It's the players who like a mix of both elements that are hard to find.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Rather than tagging it on "good" or "bad" GMs or players, I would consider both a style of gaming.

Some people like strictly combat. Some people like strictly roleplaying. Others like a mix of both elements.

It's the players who like a mix of both elements that are hard to find.

Reading this:

"I have pretty much lost all interest in playing and DMing D&D. It just doesn't have the feel I want for my campaigns and most of the players in this area construct their characters solely for combat purposes. "

I get the Impression you dislike that "Style" of gamming.

[Chuck Lang]

Reading this:

"I have pretty much lost all interest in playing and DMing D&D. It just doesn't have the feel I want for my campaigns and most of the players in this area construct their characters solely for combat purposes. "

I get the Impression you dislike that "Style" of gamming.

You're correct. I prefer a combination of both.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Reading this:

"I have pretty much lost all interest in playing and DMing D&D. It just doesn't have the feel I want for my campaigns and most of the players in this area construct their characters solely for combat purposes. "

I get the Impression you dislike that "Style" of gamming.

You're correct. I prefer a combination of both.

as Do I, I've had to convert several players who learned to play under "HAck-n-Slash Game-Masters". Many systems are bent toward Combat-effective chracters... I tried to play a Non-Combat Chracter in Shadow run... I was Killed in the second game.. as the Orc in the group pissed off some Bikers, and i got shot in the back trying to find a place to hide, then ate a Grenade.
Safe to say the entire group was full of Hack-n-slash mongers.

[Chuck Lang]

as Do I, I've had to convert several players who learned to play under "HAck-n-Slash Game-Masters". Many systems are bent toward Combat-effective chracters... I tried to play a Non-Combat Chracter in Shadow run... I was Killed in the second game.. as the Orc in the group pissed off some Bikers, and i got shot in the back trying to find a place to hide, then ate a Grenade.
Safe to say the entire group was full of Hack-n-slash mongers.

Dude, situations like that can be frustrating. I feel for ya man. My wife has been through similar circumstances many times.

Basically, a party should be made to reflect the tone the GM wants in his or her campaign or the GM's style. Difficult, but well worth the pre planning in the long run. Ideally the players and GM can come to a balance of the styles each person likes and can participate in, but problems will still arise.

[Colonel Wolfe]

as Do I, I've had to convert several players who learned to play under "HAck-n-Slash Game-Masters". Many systems are bent toward Combat-effective chracters... I tried to play a Non-Combat Chracter in Shadow run... I was Killed in the second game.. as the Orc in the group pissed off some Bikers, and i got shot in the back trying to find a place to hide, then ate a Grenade.
Safe to say the entire group was full of Hack-n-slash mongers.

Dude, situations like that can be frustrating. I feel for ya man. My wife has been through similar circumstances many times.

Basically, a party should be made to reflect the tone the GM wants in his or her campaign or the GM's style. Difficult, but well worth the pre planning in the long run. Ideally the players and GM can come to a balance of the styles each person likes and can participate in, but problems will still arise.

The Gm asked me to be a Non-combat guy, so i could negoiate, and have the ocntact no one else did... I was doing my Job... until the Orc decided he needed some revenge on a group of bikers... the next character i made was a Troll Street Fighter/Adept... just so i could keep pace with the Party.

Its a cross of bad GM's and "Roll-players"... I've rarely delt with the opposite the Complete Role player... unless the guy who played a Para-palegic Vagabond counts.

[Chuck Lang]

Its a cross of bad GM's and "Roll-players"... I've rarely delt with the opposite the Complete Role player... unless the guy who played a Para-palegic Vagabond counts.

I just don't understand where combat wonks come from. I mean, if that's all they do, why not sit down with your dice alone in the corner somewhere and roll damage all night? Because they're sure not role-playing.

Part of it comes from games like Everquest where AFAIK you just sit there and kill things trying to get to the next level. One of the players I had in my group loves those games and emulated that in his style of playing.

[Chuck Lang]

Its a cross of bad GM's and "Roll-players"... I've rarely delt with the opposite the Complete Role player... unless the guy who played a Para-palegic Vagabond counts.

I just don't understand where combat wonks come from. I mean, if that's all they do, why not sit down with your dice alone in the corner somewhere and roll damage all night? Because they're sure not role-playing.

Part of it comes from games like Everquest where AFAIK you just sit there and kill things trying to get to the next level. One of the players I had in my group loves those games and emulated that in his style of playing.

Sorry, I should have said, "In some cases it might come from games like Everquest."

I didn’t want to be all-inclusive in that sentence because most likely this doesn’t pertain to all who play EQ.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Part of it comes from games like Everquest where AFAIK you just sit there and kill things trying to get to the next level. One of the players I had in my group loves those games and emulated that in his style of playing.

Sorry, I should have said, "In some cases it might come from games like Everquest."

I didn’t want to be all-inclusive in that sentence because most likely this doesn’t pertain to all who play EQ.

I've played EQ for 3 years, and have no problem "Role" playing table top.
I actually blame it alot more on the Diablo2 kiddys i know... There is a game that is hacn-n-slash for better gear. once you to a point in EQ, you have to learn to work as a team to live, and get to better "Phat-lewt", Which is somthing alot of HAck-n-Slash people dont get either, Team work.
(personally, i like Smaller Skinny Lutes... as most of my bards have lower strenght)

[Colonel Wolfe]

Its a cross of bad GM's and "Roll-players"... I've rarely delt with the opposite the Complete Role player... unless the guy who played a Para-palegic Vagabond counts.

I just don't understand where combat wonks come from. I mean, if that's all they do, why not sit down with your dice alone in the corner somewhere and roll damage all night? Because they're sure not role-playing.

as Mindwyr said, its Console/Computer RPG's. when i started playing D&D... the game was more like Final Fantasy. you Killed a Rat... and he gave exp, and droped Gold. how bad was that?

[Guest]

Its a cross of bad GM's and "Roll-players"... I've rarely delt with the opposite the Complete Role player... unless the guy who played a Para-palegic Vagabond counts.

I just don't understand where combat wonks come from. I mean, if that's all they do, why not sit down with your dice alone in the corner somewhere and roll damage all night? Because they're sure not role-playing.

That's surprising really. I take it you haven't read the disclaimers common to many Palladium books about how the setting is a violent place (blah, blah, blah). The fact of the matter is, many RPGs (not computer games, I'm talking about Role-Playing Games here) are geared toward combat. So of course people who like to game out combat are going to play them. Not to say that I'm all about combat in the games I play or run, but it is a big factor in RPGs.

As for not "role-playing" if you're referring to acting or story-telling, they may not be, but they're still playing role-playing games. Personally, I prefer to think of myself as a gamer, and with gamers both roll-playing and role-playing factor in how the game is run and played. After all, that's why gamers play Role-Playing GAMES.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Look at D&D, the main way to get EXP is via combat. (and in 1st and 2nd, how much gold you got)
Even in Palladium Combat can account for a good % of EXP.
Mechwarrior... Pertty much Combat again.

The Games are focused on Combat... for D&D I added aditional EXP awards for non-combat situations. (mostly modified off the Palladium charts).
The only Game i know of that awards "Role" playing is.. WW. and gettign 1 bonus exp for being a good RP'er is a huge reward in that system.

I've Tried to make a point of How Much of a Advanture is Combat, Less then 50%? less then 70%? it depends alot on the group. 4 Fighters, a Cleric and a Bard... Gonna be lots of Fighting.

[Sureshot]

Palladium totally supports its Fantasy RPG as long as you convert it to Rifts.

:

lol:

[Sureshot]

Palladium totally supports its Fantasy RPG as long as you convert it to Rifts.

:

[Colonel Wolfe]

Palladium totally supports its Fantasy RPG as long as you convert it to Rifts.

Well, I bought some White-out and a Marker, and made some new PFRPG books.

Palladium Fantasy: Worm Wood
Palladium Fantasy: Phase World
PF: South Ame.... Lands 1 & 2

[Colonel Wolfe]

Palladium totally supports its Fantasy RPG as long as you convert it to Rifts.

Well, I bought some White-out and a Marker, and made some new PFRPG books.

Palladium Fantasy: Worm Wood
Palladium Fantasy: Phase World
PF: South Ame.... Lands 1 & 2

Are you gonan do the same for your RT titles?

no, a Full Re-write and completion of the Robotech RPg is underway by various people... as wll as rumors of Robotech-D20 from some RT people... but its a Rumor i canot confirm.

[Colonel Wolfe]

or deny?

I get the answer of, "I dont know of anyone looking to aquire the Rights, but its not my department."

then the second part, who has the $$ to do it...

WOTC?
WW/S&SS?

they can afford it,
but Wotc has Star wars... which cost tons..
& Swords & Sorcery studies has Worlds of Warcraft and EQ/EQ2....

nah, its a Wishful thinking.... as many companys still think palladium has the License.

Right now Palladium isnt gonna do much beyond its Cash cow.... Rifts... but Rumor.... 2008 will be good for Palladium Fantasy... BIGG year...

[Entiago]

... but Rumor.... 2008 will be good for Palladium Fantasy... BIGG year...

(wipes tear from eye)

[Entiago]

Look at D&D, the main way to get EXP is via combat. (and in 1st and 2nd, how much gold you got)
Even in Palladium Combat can account for a good % of EXP.
Mechwarrior... Pertty much Combat again.

The Games are focused on Combat... for D&D I added aditional EXP awards for non-combat situations. (mostly modified off the Palladium charts).
The only Game i know of that awards "Role" playing is.. WW. and gettign 1 bonus exp for being a good RP'er is a huge reward in that system.

besides Pallaium, right?

[Colonel Wolfe]

Look at D&D, the main way to get EXP is via combat. (and in 1st and 2nd, how much gold you got)
Even in Palladium Combat can account for a good % of EXP.
Mechwarrior... Pertty much Combat again.

The Games are focused on Combat... for D&D I added aditional EXP awards for non-combat situations. (mostly modified off the Palladium charts).
The only Game i know of that awards "Role" playing is.. WW. and gettign 1 bonus exp for being a good RP'er is a huge reward in that system.

besides Pallaium, right?

yes, I wrote this while my books were in storage, so the palladium exp chart wasnt acessable, but Palladium awards Roleplay/team work and Combat.

[Colonel Wolfe]

... but Rumor.... 2008 will be good for Palladium Fantasy... BIGG year...

(wipes tear from eye)

I explained to Zachary via IM how i got that year... based on my past experinces with Robotech rpg.

[Entiago]

... but Rumor.... 2008 will be good for Palladium Fantasy... BIGG year...

(wipes tear from eye)

I explained to Zachary via IM how i got that year... based on my past experinces with Robotech rpg.

ohh, my stomach just rolled funny, was it your post or the mac n' cheese I just ate?

[Colonel Wolfe]

... but Rumor.... 2008 will be good for Palladium Fantasy... BIGG year...

(wipes tear from eye)

I explained to Zachary via IM how i got that year... based on my past experinces with Robotech rpg.

ohh, my stomach just rolled funny, was it your post or the mac n' cheese I just ate?

if PFRPG follows the Robotech publishing... it will have a dead pierod of 5 years.... (as with Robotech from 1989 to 1994).

if PFRPG follows it... the last book was in 2003... then the next will be in 2008... and in 2011 they will cancel it.

[Entiago]

... but Rumor.... 2008 will be good for Palladium Fantasy... BIGG year...

(wipes tear from eye)

I explained to Zachary via IM how i got that year... based on my past experinces with Robotech rpg.

ohh, my stomach just rolled funny, was it your post or the mac n' cheese I just ate?

if PFRPG follows the Robotech publishing... it will have a dead pierod of 5 years.... (as with Robotech from 1989 to 1994).

if PFRPG follows it... the last book was in 2003... then the next will be in 2008... and in 2011 they will cancel it.

I figured as much from your previous posts on the forums, and my stomach roll was a combination of post and mac n' cheese.

Although I don't think (hope not anyway) that Kevin will "kill" PF. He has stated that it is his baby and the thing he loves the most. It will probably just sit there and have a book every 2-4 years to keep us helplessly hooked. The thing that hurt PF the most (IMO), is the departure of Coffin-aside from him, Kevin and Wujick were the only writers of PF material. Well there was Nowak, Bartold, and Edwards; but each of them had only 1 book where as Coffin had...7 books. So it is my humble opinion that the PF line will linger around until Kevin has time to sit and write the good books, or find someone who can.

[Sentinel]

I like Palladium Fantasy.
I'd played Rolemaster, D&D and AD&D, Middle Earth, Fantasy Hero, and couple of others. I like Palladium better than those all around, although there are, and will always be, some things that one game does better than another.
Palladium's overall system is easy to use, and easy to modify if needs be. I like the sourcebooks for the Fantasy game, and I can usually incorporate the material into my other campaigns.

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

... but Rumor.... 2008 will be good for Palladium Fantasy... BIGG year...

(wipes tear from eye)

I explained to Zachary via IM how i got that year... based on my past experinces with Robotech rpg.

ohh, my stomach just rolled funny, was it your post or the mac n' cheese I just ate?

if PFRPG follows the Robotech publishing... it will have a dead pierod of 5 years.... (as with Robotech from 1989 to 1994).

if PFRPG follows it... the last book was in 2003... then the next will be in 2008... and in 2011 they will cancel it.

he he, Nice one Colonel Wolfe

I still want to see,
Rifts Dimention book ???: The Old Kingdom Mountains.....
to go with all the other PF books that get converted to Rifts dimentions books. PF went to 2nd ed for a reason.....