Rifts earth: Space

[Tags]

Someone needs to write a Rifts earth:Space world or source book. All we have to go on is woefully outdated book, Mutants in Orbit, a d references to how impossible it is to get I to space. For to long earth space has been left to languish.

All that potential wasted, Rifts goes on and on about how advanced humanity was during the golden age, so earth orbit should have been heavily colonized, a d if the stations remain they obviously need resources so there would have to asteroid mines and who knows what else... Though how would they deal with water...

[Bill]

I think Rifts: Space has been suggested more than a few times. Given the company's anti-revisionist stance, I doubt you'd get a more advanced retooling of the solar system. A more detailed and updated version would still be nice to have though.

Assuming that super-science solutions are on the table, water could be synthesized through controlled fusion of hydrogen and oxygen. Getting hydrogen and oxygen to make it from is another problem entirely.

[Tags]

Yea... Well I wish I could say I was surprised. I would hope Palladium took a better stance then say Games Workshop though.

All this talk about how great the golden age was, I can't imagine much would be out of reach.

Consider this a what it thread, who knows maybe someone will be inspired.

[eliakon]

There have been several great house rule sets put forth by people that have lived on the web for doing different versions of Rifts space. Several of them attempted to tackle issues like population, technology, why space is isolated, why no one on earth notices space, etc. Other attempts have been made to revise the technology to be more inline with the current levels of what Golden Age technology could do.

The problem is that any of these would require going through and decanonizing the current book (Mutants in Orbit) before a new canon could be put in. And the chances that that will be done officially are somewhere between zero and none.

I would be interested in such work myself as I am one of the people that has a problem with the way that the space is written now. Maybe a Rifter could pass muster?

[Fell]

Rifts Aftermath has some additional information on Space.

[glitterboy2098]

palladium isn't exactly anti-retcon.. they've done it often enough after all. they just are against complete replacement of something that has been mentioned in several books.

if Rifts:Space takes the MiO elements and just expands the details, it should be ok. getting rid of the MiO stations for something totally new however would not be.

[Tags]

palladium isn't exactly anti-retcon.. they've done it often enough after all. they just are against complete replacement of something that has been mentioned in several books.

if Rifts:Space takes the MiO elements and just expands the details, it should be ok. getting rid of the MiO stations for something totally new however would not be.

The mutants in orbit stuff is... lazy, I suppose it's a start but feels like someone started something then quit part way through. Not like the mentions on what's are there actually tell you much, if anything, so ambiguous.

Hmm maybe give the whole solar system some attention, though that at require giving the golden age a bit more definition and less ambiguity.

[Fell]

I'm all for more World Data. Story. Details on places. That's why I liked Aftermath so much. I wish a book like it could be made. Rifts 110 PA. News and updates on all places.

As far as Space goes.....like anywhere else, more updates would be nice.

There are places I want to know about more than Space, like the Deep South, ect but any new material is great.

I know I get tired of waiting for new stuff, thats why I "bug" palladium with regular submitted Rifter material.

Try it. Write some info. I was surprised to see my stuff get used. But it encouraged me to send more.

Write the stuff you want

Personally I think Bill needs to write Wormwood 2!

[Bill]

I'll have to finish Wormwood - Revised and Expanded first.

[say652]

I would appreciate a new rifts space book.

That way when I say no orbital bombardment I have a source saying so.

[Tags]

I'm all for more World Data. Story. Details on places. That's why I liked Aftermath so much. I wish a book like it could be made. Rifts 110 PA. News and updates on all places.

As far as Space goes.....like anywhere else, more updates would be nice.

There are places I want to know about more than Space, like the Deep South, ect but any new material is great.

I know I get tired of waiting for new stuff, thats why I "bug" palladium with regular submitted Rifter material.

Try it. Write some info. I was surprised to see my stuff get used. But it encouraged me to send more.

Write the stuff you want

Personally I think Bill needs to write Wormwood 2!

I've pummeled them with more then a few ideas... They used one so far, oddly enough, problem is generating the energy.

Plenty of ideas for Rifts space but I do believe it would take more then me. Would love to see some space cannons, every good sci-fi story needs huge laser firing cannons in space. And a ton more space stations... hmmmm maybe take a crack at something for Rifts space.

Thing is, do the existing stations have contact with the greater galaxy or would they be isolationist.

[glitterboy2098]

remember this isn't star wars guys. this is 2010 with guns. there is no greater galaxy to interact with, because humanity has no FTL. (the closest you get is the Arkhons, who are an unofficial invasion force, and are also stuck in our solar system with no outside contact)

[drewkitty ~..~]

For the ships the AUGG shipbuilding texts would work better then what little there is in the MiO book. You would have to limit the drives to just sub-light and reduce the accelerations to something that could be handled w/o inertial dampeners.

[Fell]

I'll have to finish Wormwood - Revised and Expanded first.

Recently used your Adrenal Claw in our game. Thank you.

Space:

If the colonies found themselves running low on supplies or something they might secretly return to Earth...but the whole thing seems pretty set up to never have Earth and Space reunited.

Just need to have a Hell Lord set up shop on Mars

Then order a Demon Planet to swing by and attack the space stations. Maybe then those spacers would reach out for help from Earth.

[Tags]

I'll have to finish Wormwood - Revised and Expanded first.

Recently used your Adrenal Claw in our game. Thank you.

Space:

If the colonies found themselves running low on supplies or something they might secretly return to Earth...but the whole thing seems pretty set up to never have Earth and Space reunited.

Just need to have a Hell Lord set up shop on Mars

Then order a Demon Planet to swing by and attack the space stations. Maybe then those spacers would reach out for help from Earth.

Help... from earth... oooooook, does anyone really want to see the Coalition in space? Hmmmm space SAMAS...

Would seem difficult if not impossible for the stations to survive isolated from earth, and even if they returned of earth their countermeasures to prevent anything from leaving earth would interfere with their return to space, unless they had access to a space elevator.

Obviously there are races with advanced means of propulsion capable of traversing space, either with star ships or just their own bodies, then the question is are any of them aware of earth, asuming they are, how desperate would the stations be for supplies... Obviously they have manufacturing capabilities and access to raw materials, which implies they may be mining asteroids. Anyway if any of these races were to or bad contact with the stations how wood they be received.

[Fell]

Know what I thought was crazy, now and when I was in college and the Rifts Mercenary book came out...

I recall reading page 139 about the NE Creasant Wing and the intro on it and thinking - What?!

No one has bothered to try ?!

Go read it. You tell me if no one would try. I know getting your hands on it would be hard but....

[Fell]

Who knows. Maybe the new CS book will have a Space SAMAS in it lol

[glitterboy2098]

For the ships the AUGG shipbuilding texts would work better then what little there is in the MiO book. You would have to limit the drives to just sub-light and reduce the accelerations to something that could be handled w/o inertial dampeners.

actually i'm using the AUGG system as a base for my plans for a rifts:space book. i like the module system for building ships. it just needs heavy adjustment to fit the Rifts:space tech instead of HU2's superhero stuff.

[Tags]

For the ships the AUGG shipbuilding texts would work better then what little there is in the MiO book. You would have to limit the drives to just sub-light and reduce the accelerations to something that could be handled w/o inertial dampeners.

actually i'm using the AUGG system as a base for my plans for a rifts:space book. i like the module system for building ships. it just needs heavy adjustment to fit the Rifts:space tech instead of HU2's superhero stuff.

There better be giant space cannons.

[glitterboy2098]

would be hard to fight the arkhons without them.

[Tags]

would be hard to fight the arkhons without them.

Indeed.

A giant laser like the one in Final Fantasy: The spirits within would be awesome. Sure make earth bound nations take notice.

There was a game with a space cannon as well, though it fired a slug across solar systems...

[ShadowLogan]

All that potential wasted, Rifts goes on and on about how advanced humanity was during the golden age, so earth orbit should have been heavily colonized, a d if the stations remain they obviously need resources so there would have to asteroid mines and who knows what else... Though how would they deal with water...

No it does not men that Earth Orbit would be heavily colonized. The Golden Age tech though is relatively focused, it is possible that humans didn't put as much effort into space exploration from a political perspective.

Wasn't there are Rifts Solar System in one/more of the Rifters?

Assuming that super-science solutions are on the table, water could be synthesized through controlled fusion of hydrogen and oxygen. Getting hydrogen and oxygen to make it from is another problem entirely.

Fusion would not be need to synthesize water from hydrogen and oxygen. Fusion (or solar or nuclear) energy would be needed to process water into hygrogen and oxygen. You could use a fuelcell to create water from hydrogen and oxygen, but fusion itself would turn the hydrogen and oxygen into another element.

The problem is that any of these would require going through and decanonizing the current book (Mutants in Orbit) before a new canon could be put in. And the chances that that will be done officially are somewhere between zero and none.

Not necessarily. What Palladium could do is move MIO to another dimensional version of (Rifts?) Earth (either in Phase World setting, IIRC aren't there supposed to be several "Earth" here) freeing them up to do a "proper" Rifts Space.

If the colonies found themselves running low on supplies or something they might secretly return to Earth...but the whole thing seems pretty set up to never have Earth and Space reunited.

From a propulsion standpoint the Colonies are better off not returning to Earth. And as far as supplies go, Mars might be a better choice. Dealing with the bugs of course is a potential issue, but given the semi-terraformed nature of Mars already (in setting), and a host of other factors Mars likely would be more ideal.

[Killer Cyborg]

I thought Mutants in Orbit sufficed quite nicely.

[say652]

Palladium is actually very light in the way of stats for satellites, star fighter, cruiser, and gargantuan ships.

I use the the The Galaxies ships as the force around Rifts earth.

Mutants in orbit is a great resource for mutants and aliens but for Start fighters and world destroying space ships, the galaxies all day.

[glitterboy2098]

If the colonies found themselves running low on supplies or something they might secretly return to Earth...but the whole thing seems pretty set up to never have Earth and Space reunited.

From a propulsion standpoint the Colonies are better off not returning to Earth. And as far as supplies go, Mars might be a better choice. Dealing with the bugs of course is a potential issue, but given the semi-terraformed nature of Mars already (in setting), and a host of other factors Mars likely would be more ideal.

actually mars is occupied by the Arkhons. while their ground presence is probably limited in scope, you can bet they have the orbital zones blockaded for defense of the colony-ships that they grounded to make a base.

as far as resources go, you don't really need planets if you have the ability to mine in space.
asteroids, including the Near Earth Object's (NEO's) that orbit between mars and mercury, have just about every sort of natural element you can think of, although you'd have to prospect to find good concentrations of some of them.
we've also found that asteroids in the main belt probably have subsurface ice deposits (and in a few of the bigger cases, maybe even subsurface water)
we've also founds subsurface ice deposits on the Moon, along with evidence for a lot of useful elements that can be mined.

and it was established in MiO that the orbitals would make risky trips out ot the kuiper belt to snag comets. if you can get there, you can reach jupiter and saturn, giving you access to moons like europa, callisto, and Ganymede, all of which have water ice and subsurface oceans, as well as the dozens of other moons that have useful elements to mine.

so really, the main changes that need to be made are expanding the scope of the setting to include these resource bases.

would be hard to fight the arkhons without them.

Indeed.

A giant laser like the one in Final Fantasy: The spirits within would be awesome. Sure make earth bound nations take notice.

There was a game with a space cannon as well, though it fired a slug across solar systems...

weapons of that sort are impractical. the orbitals have no real desire for orbital bombardment of earth.. and if they wanted to do it, they'd not need a giant laser to o it, they could just drop little rocks from orbit. like how the lunar seperatists fought back against earth in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, or the centrauri bombarded narn in babylon 5 in the episode The Long, Twilight Struggle. very small rocks dropped at interplanetary velocities become city killers. (look at Barringer crater in arizona.. about a mile wide, the impact would have devastated an area dozens of miles wide.. and it was made by a rock of only 50ft across, weighing about 2-3 tons (if my calcs are correct) moving at about 16 miles a second.)
being able to drop what is basically mining byproducts and destroy any city on earth means you don't really need super weapons to do the job.

and firing stuff across the solar system is a no-go. while you certainly could shoot a rock that far using a mass driver you have several issues that make it pointless. first, detection.. being limited to speed of light sensors and communications, once you get past the orbit of the moon your getting reports of where a ship was not where it is. mars has a 3 to 21 minute message delay depending on where it is in orbit, jupiter is 33 - 53 minutes.. etc. second, round travel time. the shots would be travelling much much less than the speed of light, so the actual projectile would have more like days or weeks of travel to reach a target. means that against mobile targets you can't hit them (at those travel times, even a space station with its basic thrusters classifies as "mobile"), and against planet/moon based facilities, you have plenty of time to intercept it and deflect it.

no, the guns i was talking about were ship mounted. the space combat equivalent of battleship guns.

[Library Ogre]

I think the Arkhon's make an interesting development, especially given my contention that the only reason Splynncrth doesn't own Earthspace is because he doesn't want to; given his resources, it would be trivial to do.

[Bill]

Something I would do if I were working on a Rifts: Sol System would spend more time on the rift activity that occurs on other celestial bodies near Earth. That's touched on a bit regarding Mars, but I'd want to add some creatures that live in the void of space itself and that are adapted to survive on the more hostile environments like Mercury, Venus, and Io. Without contradicting MiO, I think we might even safely add an entire planet or space stations that are native to other dimensions.

[The Beast]

For the ships the AUGG shipbuilding texts would work better then what little there is in the MiO book. You would have to limit the drives to just sub-light and reduce the accelerations to something that could be handled w/o inertial dampeners.

Seconded. Unfortunately instead of the doing right thing and reprinting the SSC rules and modifying them for Rifts Palladium will likely stay the course and just give a listing of ships followed by a listing of stuff for spaceships you can buy, without going into details like AUGG does.

[ShadowLogan]

actually mars is occupied by the Arkhons. while their ground presence is probably limited in scope, you can bet they have the orbital zones blockaded for defense of the colony-ships that they grounded to make a base.

In a post 100PA environment yes, but prior to that if the Orbitals where looking at a planet for resources Mars would be better for them than returning to Earth, even with the bugs. The Orbitals also seem to be holding their own against the Arkhons, and by 109PA we should be seeing some improvements for them to be a better match. The Orbitals have probably also noted the weakness to non-energy weapons by now affecting their designs (trading energy weapons for railguns, increase missile payload, etc) since the Arkhons were engaging in constant raids on the Moon Colony and the Arkhons have brought the orbitals together (so coordination is happening, likely also includes information sharing) per SA2 (don't have Aftermath).

Humans at one point had a presence on Mars even after the Great Cataclysm, the bugs didn't appear until 60years later roughly (events on Mars are said to playout in Rifts just like ATB).

as far as resources go, you don't really need planets if you have the ability to mine in space...

True, they also have access to the lunar surface (or at least the CAN Republic does). Still a large body like the Moon or Mars offers advantages over asteroids in that it is one stop shopping so to speak. And yes they need to expand the scope of the setting to cover resources.

I'm not sure the Oribitals would want to risk visiting Jupiter or its moons other than for a slinghsot manuever. The radiation belts at Jupiter are going to be a concern. That and the propulsion requirements at Jupiter probably make other gas giants more economically viable targets even with the longer trip time.

Something I would do if I were working on a Rifts: Sol System would spend more time on the rift activity that occurs on other celestial bodies near Earth. That's touched on a bit regarding Mars, but I'd want to add some creatures that live in the void of space itself and that are adapted to survive on the more hostile environments like Mercury, Venus, and Io. Without contradicting MiO, I think we might even safely add an entire planet or space stations that are native to other dimensions.

Well the Ley Lines at Mars have resulted in some level of terra forming (IINM), so Venus might be/have "habitable zones". Mercury is likely similar to the Moon.

You can probably add in space stations from other dimensions, but an entire planet I think would have to be a "recent" arrival otherwise it would have been noted in MiO I think unless it was way out there (beyond Neptune) to have escaped discovery. Gravity being what it is, you couldn't hide a planet that easily. Humans where on Mars for 60years after the GC, so a planet "hiding" in Earth's orbit likely would have been spotted.

[Nightmask]

actually mars is occupied by the Arkhons. while their ground presence is probably limited in scope, you can bet they have the orbital zones blockaded for defense of the colony-ships that they grounded to make a base.

In a post 100PA environment yes, but prior to that if the Orbitals where looking at a planet for resources Mars would be better for them than returning to Earth, even with the bugs. The Orbitals also seem to be holding their own against the Arkhons, and by 109PA we should be seeing some improvements for them to be a better match. The Orbitals have probably also noted the weakness to non-energy weapons by now affecting their designs (trading energy weapons for railguns, increase missile payload, etc) since the Arkhons were engaging in constant raids on the Moon Colony and the Arkhons have brought the orbitals together (so coordination is happening, likely also includes information sharing) per SA2 (don't have Aftermath).

Minor note, they likely wouldn't be switching to railguns considering the recoil problems in space. If/when they realized the Cerametal was vulnerable to kinetic energy weapons they'd more likely focus on missiles for that kind of conflict.

[Killer Cyborg]

actually mars is occupied by the Arkhons. while their ground presence is probably limited in scope, you can bet they have the orbital zones blockaded for defense of the colony-ships that they grounded to make a base.

In a post 100PA environment yes, but prior to that if the Orbitals where looking at a planet for resources Mars would be better for them than returning to Earth, even with the bugs. The Orbitals also seem to be holding their own against the Arkhons, and by 109PA we should be seeing some improvements for them to be a better match. The Orbitals have probably also noted the weakness to non-energy weapons by now affecting their designs (trading energy weapons for railguns, increase missile payload, etc) since the Arkhons were engaging in constant raids on the Moon Colony and the Arkhons have brought the orbitals together (so coordination is happening, likely also includes information sharing) per SA2 (don't have Aftermath).

Minor note, they likely wouldn't be switching to railguns considering the recoil problems in space. If/when they realized the Cerametal was vulnerable to kinetic energy weapons they'd more likely focus on missiles for that kind of conflict.

I always wanted to see a campaign where the oribiters were arming the Mars bugs to help them against the Arkhon.
Ants can use rail guns.

[ShadowLogan]

@KC
A scary thought might be the Ants evolving enough intelligence to utilize technology better than they do now. They can use items now obviously, but I'm talking about reloads and developing their own take. Weather they actually evolved the intelligence on their own, it was a freak mutation/accident, or some hidden power behind the scenes...

actually mars is occupied by the Arkhons. while their ground presence is probably limited in scope, you can bet they have the orbital zones blockaded for defense of the colony-ships that they grounded to make a base.

In a post 100PA environment yes, but prior to that if the Orbitals where looking at a planet for resources Mars would be better for them than returning to Earth, even with the bugs. The Orbitals also seem to be holding their own against the Arkhons, and by 109PA we should be seeing some improvements for them to be a better match. The Orbitals have probably also noted the weakness to non-energy weapons by now affecting their designs (trading energy weapons for railguns, increase missile payload, etc) since the Arkhons were engaging in constant raids on the Moon Colony and the Arkhons have brought the orbitals together (so coordination is happening, likely also includes information sharing) per SA2 (don't have Aftermath).

Minor note, they likely wouldn't be switching to railguns considering the recoil problems in space. If/when they realized the Cerametal was vulnerable to kinetic energy weapons they'd more likely focus on missiles for that kind of conflict.

Railguns are pretty rare in MIO, I think only two mecha use them (a glitterboy and a CAN 'bot), and then one of the kill sats. Missiles likely would take an emphasis, but projectile weapons (like railguns or even regular bullets) would seem to be required to maximize payload potential. Glitterboys on Earth have a recoil problem to, so the Orbitals/CAN might adapt the technology here toward improving the recoil situation by executing a "counter burn" or using them with platforms that have the mass to reduce the recoil to negligible levels. The main thing stopping widespread use of projectile weapons (even missiles) I think would be creating space junk with "missed" rounds.

[Bill]

Something I would do if I were working on a Rifts: Sol System would spend more time on the rift activity that occurs on other celestial bodies near Earth. That's touched on a bit regarding Mars, but I'd want to add some creatures that live in the void of space itself and that are adapted to survive on the more hostile environments like Mercury, Venus, and Io. Without contradicting MiO, I think we might even safely add an entire planet or space stations that are native to other dimensions.

Well the Ley Lines at Mars have resulted in some level of terra forming (IINM), so Venus might be/have "habitable zones". Mercury is likely similar to the Moon.

I'm specifically thinking non-human life. Really alien stuff that's not even in competition with humans because our environment couldn't sustain them.

You can probably add in space stations from other dimensions, but an entire planet I think would have to be a "recent" arrival otherwise it would have been noted in MiO I think unless it was way out there (beyond Neptune) to have escaped discovery. Gravity being what it is, you couldn't hide a planet that easily. Humans where on Mars for 60years after the GC, so a planet "hiding" in Earth's orbit likely would have been spotted.

I think a counter-earth would be cool. And I think the other revised titles include equally significant retcons. NEMA's inclusion in the ARCHIE story, for example.

[Library Ogre]

@KC
A scary thought might be the Ants evolving enough intelligence to utilize technology better than they do now. They can use items now obviously, but I'm talking about reloads and developing their own take. Weather they actually evolved the intelligence on their own, it was a freak mutation/accident, or some hidden power behind the scenes...

I'm reminded of Robert Aspirin's "The Bug Wars". A race of lizard men is fighting a long war against several races of bugs (flyers, leapers, and ants are the ones I recall), across the galaxy, as the bugs have taken the technology given to them and turned into a conquering force.

[glitterboy2098]

the addition of a new planet to the inner solar system would have horrific effects on earth though. it's orbit would be perturbed, causing massive climate change.. possibly global extinction if the orbit is puled too far to the edge of the habitable zone.

outer system would not be as bad, in theory. but out there the result of a new planet showing up would be a massive change in the oribtal dynamics of the asteroid belt, kuiper belt, and oort cloud.. depending on where it shows up. you'd basicalyl get tons of comets and asteroids being pulled out of orbit and careening around the solar system.

and that assumes it appears in a largely vacant area like the asteroid belt or out past neptune. if it appears in the orbital zone of one of the existing planets what is most liekly to happen is the orbit will not be stable, and the new planet, as well as the existing one near it, get pulled out of orbit. which will pull the rest into new orbits. the addition of a new planet to our solar system is a good way to kill everybody in it.

[Bill]

the addition of a new planet to our solar system is a good way to kill everybody in it.

Magic. Which is to say that you're attempting to apply physics to a fictional universe where physics is mostly an inconvenience or an afterthought. If I want to drop ten more planets into orbit around this sun, I don't need to concern myself with what would really happen. All I have to worry about is how to make them interesting for the reader and compelling to their imaginations.

[say652]

Theory, Mansize beings able to survive in space, have a means of mobility in Zero Gravity, and can survive the initial Satellite energy blast??
Can then begin to maneuver?
Cause if you can attain orbit from Rifts Earth, lots of things have a fighting chance, but only if Mansize and not really targetable by those gigadamage cannons.

[Library Ogre]

the addition of a new planet to the inner solar system would have horrific effects on earth though. it's orbit would be perturbed, causing massive climate change.. possibly global extinction if the orbit is puled too far to the edge of the habitable zone.

Some theories suggest this has already happened.

[taalismn]

the addition of a new planet to the inner solar system would have horrific effects on earth though. it's orbit would be perturbed, causing massive climate change.. possibly global extinction if the orbit is puled too far to the edge of the habitable zone.

outer system would not be as bad, in theory. but out there the result of a new planet showing up would be a massive change in the oribtal dynamics of the asteroid belt, kuiper belt, and oort cloud.. depending on where it shows up. you'd basicalyl get tons of comets and asteroids being pulled out of orbit and careening around the solar system.

and that assumes it appears in a largely vacant area like the asteroid belt or out past neptune. if it appears in the orbital zone of one of the existing planets what is most liekly to happen is the orbit will not be stable, and the new planet, as well as the existing one near it, get pulled out of orbit. which will pull the rest into new orbits. the addition of a new planet to our solar system is a good way to kill everybody in it.

"VELIKOVSKY WAS RIGGGHHHHTTTTT!!!!!"

[say652]

the addition of a new planet to the inner solar system would have horrific effects on earth though. it's orbit would be perturbed, causing massive climate change.. possibly global extinction if the orbit is puled too far to the edge of the habitable zone.

Some theories suggest this has already happened.

Additional moons could possibly stabilize the orbit of the two planets one larger and two or three smaller and tons of moons.

This could stretch the atmosphere of the main planet to the smaller planets, making travel viable between the planets circling a larger planet, with tons of moons stabilizing gravitational pull and magnetic poles, possibly even connecting Leylines.

[say652]

the addition of a new planet to the inner solar system would have horrific effects on earth though. it's orbit would be perturbed, causing massive climate change.. possibly global extinction if the orbit is puled too far to the edge of the habitable zone.

Some theories suggest this has already happened.

Additional moons could possibly stabilize the orbit of the two planets one larger and two or three smaller and tons of moons.

This could stretch the atmosphere of the main planet to the smaller planets, making travel viable between the planets circling a larger planet, with tons of moons stabilizing gravitational pull and magnetic poles, possibly even connecting Leylines.

Some moons would be larger than a few of the orbiting Planets. So space travel, though short range would also develop.

[glitterboy2098]

adding moons would just makes things worse, not better. the issue is gravitational effects of stellar bodies on other stellar bodies. moons means more bodies, more mass, and greater gravitational effects.

[Brayon]

Well, they have Glitterboys in Space so why not some SAMAS?

Personally, I can see the stations unifying with the Moonbase, & then tackle the trash field around Earth to get back onto the planet. Monsters of not, having a safe place to evac too if something happened to the station would be ideal.

[Tags]

If the colonies found themselves running low on supplies or something they might secretly return to Earth...but the whole thing seems pretty set up to never have Earth and Space reunited.

From a propulsion standpoint the Colonies are better off not returning to Earth. And as far as supplies go, Mars might be a better choice. Dealing with the bugs of course is a potential issue, but given the semi-terraformed nature of Mars already (in setting), and a host of other factors Mars likely would be more ideal.

actually mars is occupied by the Arkhons. while their ground presence is probably limited in scope, you can bet they have the orbital zones blockaded for defense of the colony-ships that they grounded to make a base.

as far as resources go, you don't really need planets if you have the ability to mine in space.
asteroids, including the Near Earth Object's (NEO's) that orbit between mars and mercury, have just about every sort of natural element you can think of, although you'd have to prospect to find good concentrations of some of them.
we've also found that asteroids in the main belt probably have subsurface ice deposits (and in a few of the bigger cases, maybe even subsurface water)
we've also founds subsurface ice deposits on the Moon, along with evidence for a lot of useful elements that can be mined.

and it was established in MiO that the orbitals would make risky trips out ot the kuiper belt to snag comets. if you can get there, you can reach jupiter and saturn, giving you access to moons like europa, callisto, and Ganymede, all of which have water ice and subsurface oceans, as well as the dozens of other moons that have useful elements to mine.

so really, the main changes that need to be made are expanding the scope of the setting to include these resource bases.

would be hard to fight the arkhons without them.

Indeed.

A giant laser like the one in Final Fantasy: The spirits within would be awesome. Sure make earth bound nations take notice.

There was a game with a space cannon as well, though it fired a slug across solar systems...

weapons of that sort are impractical. the orbitals have no real desire for orbital bombardment of earth.. and if they wanted to do it, they'd not need a giant laser to o it, they could just drop little rocks from orbit. like how the lunar seperatists fought back against earth in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, or the centrauri bombarded narn in babylon 5 in the episode The Long, Twilight Struggle. very small rocks dropped at interplanetary velocities become city killers. (look at Barringer crater in arizona.. about a mile wide, the impact would have devastated an area dozens of miles wide.. and it was made by a rock of only 50ft across, weighing about 2-3 tons (if my calcs are correct) moving at about 16 miles a second.)
being able to drop what is basically mining byproducts and destroy any city on earth means you don't really need super weapons to do the job.

and firing stuff across the solar system is a no-go. while you certainly could shoot a rock that far using a mass driver you have several issues that make it pointless. first, detection.. being limited to speed of light sensors and communications, once you get past the orbit of the moon your getting reports of where a ship was not where it is. mars has a 3 to 21 minute message delay depending on where it is in orbit, jupiter is 33 - 53 minutes.. etc. second, round travel time. the shots would be travelling much much less than the speed of light, so the actual projectile would have more like days or weeks of travel to reach a target. means that against mobile targets you can't hit them (at those travel times, even a space station with its basic thrusters classifies as "mobile"), and against planet/moon based facilities, you have plenty of time to intercept it and deflect it.

no, the guns i was talking about were ship mounted. the space combat equivalent of battleship guns.

If doesn't have to be practical, this is Rifts, nothing is practical. Besides everyone needs orbital bombardment, just in case. Doesn't have to make sense either.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I think the Arkhon's make an interesting development, especially given my contention that the only reason Splynncrth doesn't own Earth-space is because he doesn't want to; given his resources, it would be trivial to do.

Maybe Splynncrth is using the situation as it found it to shield itself from attacks from space. It could be the only one it is concerned about is a spaced based civ./power. And it is using the "pre-made" orbital defenses so it doe not have to advertise where it's base of operations is with a massive fleet that could be recognized. While hiding behind the earth-space inhabitants it does not have to devote resources to a defense fleet.

[ShadowLogan]

I'm specifically thinking non-human life. Really alien stuff that's not even in competition with humans because our environment couldn't sustain them.

Did I say the "habitable zones" had to be for human-life? No I did not. So you can have the full range of inhabitants for these "habitable zones".

I think a counter-earth would be cool. And I think the other revised titles include equally significant retcons. NEMA's inclusion in the ARCHIE story, for example.

I don't thinnk it's "cool". This Counter-Earth would have been discovered long ago, it can't hide its presence in the Solar System. It can only hide itself from Earth directly, but indirectly it would give its presence away and with all the space travel going on to asteroids and such it would have been noticed. There isn't anyway around it, the Orbitals would know about the C-E, so if a C-E appears it has to be a recent development, and you can't ignore the effects it would have since that would influence various attributes of the story.

Well, they have Glitterboys in Space so why not some SAMAS?

Personally, I can see the stations unifying with the Moonbase, & then tackle the trash field around Earth to get back onto the planet. Monsters of not, having a safe place to evac too if something happened to the station would be ideal.

Because the manufacturer of SAMAS is not in space AFAIK, the CAN Republic on the Moon might have the plans of Titan Series products though (being Cyberworks). The SAMAS isn't that great of a PA though.

The Oribitals (space stations and Moon base) ARE THE SOURCE OF THE trash field around Earth. They actively maintain it.

Given over 3 centuries of adaptation to less than 1G for many of these people, Earth is not necessarily a viable world to return to since only one space station has Earth normal gravity (1G), everyone else has .6G or less and that includes the Moon base (only Freedom has 1G and they represent a small % of the overall population in space). While they could adapt after returning, that adaptation will take time and time is something they might not have. Viable worlds to fall back on would be Mars, the Moon, and other low gravity worlds (Dwarf planets, moons) which excludes Earth and Venus (even if we assume a "terraforming" event).

[Tags]

Well, they have Glitterboys in Space so why not some SAMAS?

Personally, I can see the stations unifying with the Moonbase, & then tackle the trash field around Earth to get back onto the planet. Monsters of not, having a safe place to evac too if something happened to the station would be ideal.

Glitter boy in space vs. a SAMAS, well it would seem a flying power armor would make more sense in space, while the GB would limited to a celestial body such as the moon. And the GB was a government PA anyway, so if the spacers can build a GB why can't they build a SAMAS.

[say652]

adding moons would just makes things worse, not better. the issue is gravitational effects of stellar bodies on other stellar bodies. moons means more bodies, more mass, and greater gravitational effects.

So it would be a high gravity planet, covered in most alien creation charts.

[glitterboy2098]

say652.. gravity is the problem the added gravity well in the system means it pulls on all the other planets, which changes their orbits. as all of those planets pull on each other, those changed orbits create other changes in the rest.

the problem is not the nature of the planet itself but rather the fact that by merely existing in our solar system (where it was not before) will totally derange the orbits of the planets in our solar system. and when that happens your looking at the vry things that make earth suitable for life being screwed up.

high gravity planet, low gravity planet, gas giant.. doesn't matter. anything over the size of an asteroid means bad things for our solar system.

[Library Ogre]

I think the Arkhon's make an interesting development, especially given my contention that the only reason Splynncrth doesn't own Earth-space is because he doesn't want to; given his resources, it would be trivial to do.

Maybe Splynncrth is using the situation as it found it to shield itself from attacks from space. It could be the only one it is concerned about is a spaced based civ./power. And it is using the "pre-made" orbital defenses so it doe not have to advertise where it's base of operations is with a massive fleet that could be recognized. While hiding behind the earth-space inhabitants it does not have to devote resources to a defense fleet.

Interesting theory, but the Arkhons put an entirely different angle on this. He didn't have much to worry about from the space mutants... the Arkhons, though, might at least get some of his advisors looking into what's happening in the dark.