No crossovers?

[Zer0 Kay]

Doesn't the rifter completely negate PBs idea of keeping the IPs seperate?

PB thinks if someone buys the rights to produce one title that if it contains a crossover with another IP that they will have given up the rights to the other IP as well. Doesn't the Rifter combine or rather contain all their IPs?

So... get back to making crossovers again.

Thinking that one IP automatically grants access to another is ridiculous and shows that their lawyer or whoever does their IP negotiations sucks. For example, Marvel sold the rights to spiderman to sony. How many crossovers with other Marvel liscenses/titles has spiderman had? Yet Sony couldn't make Avengers second string nor could they do Fantastic 4 without getting those rights. Showing that it is completely possible to make the different IPs seperate liscenses and still produce crossovers.

So again I say, get back to work and include those crossovers!

[kaid]

Doesn't the rifter completely negate PBs idea of keeping the IPs seperate?

PB thinks if someone buys the rights to produce one title that if it contains a crossover with another IP that they will have given up the rights to the other IP as well. Doesn't the Rifter combine or rather contain all their IPs?

So... get back to making crossovers again.

Thinking that one IP automatically grants access to another is ridiculous and shows that their lawyer or whoever does their IP negotiations sucks. For example, Marvel sold the rights to spiderman to sony. How many crossovers with other Marvel liscenses/titles has spiderman had? Yet Sony couldn't make Avengers second string nor could they do Fantastic 4 without getting those rights. Showing that it is completely possible to make the different IPs seperate liscenses and still produce crossovers.

So again I say, get back to work and include those crossovers!

Well one thing to note about rifters is 90% of rifter material is listed as unofficial. The few things that are considered official are typically cutting room floor type stuff that did not make it into one of the more recent books and that almost never has any cross over material in it.

[taalismn]

The problem with seeming legal loopholes is that they can quickly become nooses.

Best not to risk it.

[Zer0 Kay]

The problem with seeming legal loopholes is that they can quickly become nooses.

Best not to risk it.

The loophole isn't multiple liscenses crossing over into one setting the loophole would be trying to claim the setting is allowing you to use the liscenses. That loophole is only created through poor negotiations.

[DhAkael]

KS has never shown any savy when it comes to lawyers.
Case in point; the "Crisis of teacherous treachery". 10 or 100k in loss from "the trecherous traitor" spiraling into the over 1 mill in legal fees. *shrug* It comes as a shock that Pbooks got nut-saqd when they singed over Rifts to Bruckenheimersteinenklienenschlitizenbourg?

[Zer0 Kay]

KS has never shown any savy when it comes to lawyers.
Case in point; the "Crisis of teacherous treachery". 10 or 100k in loss from "the trecherous traitor" spiraling into the over 1 mill in legal fees. *shrug* It comes as a shock that Pbooks got nut-saqd when they singed over Rifts to Bruckenheimersteinenklienenschlitizenbourg?

thats a great agency name.

Suprised that with the trecherous trechery KS didn't turn Lord Coake into a villain.

[keir451]

As far as Kevin is concerned the crossovers are limited to only PB products or PB prodcuts that PB currently hold licenses on. The rest are evil empires out to suck his soul.

[Zer0 Kay]

Not true he wont do a rt rifts crossover but thats because of tommy yune... jerk face elitist.

[keir451]

Not true he wont do a rt rifts crossover but thats because of tommy yune... jerk face elitist.

Well of course he is, oh wait are you talking about Tommy?

[drewkitty ~..~]

Doesn't the rifter completely negate PBs idea of keeping the IPs separate?

PB thinks if someone buys the rights to produce one title that if it contains a crossover with another IP that they will have given up the rights to the other IP as well. Doesn't the Rifter combine or rather contain all their IPs?

So... get back to making crossovers again.

Thinking that one IP automatically grants access to another is ridiculous and shows that their lawyer or whoever does their IP negotiations sucks. For example, Marvel sold the rights to spiderman to sony. How many crossovers with other Marvel licenses/titles has spiderman had? Yet Sony couldn't make Avengers second string nor could they do Fantastic 4 without getting those rights. Showing that it is completely possible to make the different IPs separate licenses and still produce crossovers.

So again I say, get back to work and include those crossovers!

The only one "No Crossover/Conversion Rule" between PB published settings, that is only covers those with the new RT 2nd ed books in PB published material and postings on the PB site. This was one of the things HG insisted on when licensing RT 2nd ed to PB.

[MADMANMIKE]

Exactly what crossovers did Palladium make that you want them to get back to?

[The Galactus Kid]

Exactly what crossovers did Palladium make that you want them to get back to?

Right?

The Rifters aren't a problem here for a number of reasons:
1) Most articles are unofficial.
2) The articles are independent and restricted to one game line. I do not recall seeing any article with RIFTS/HU2/BTS crossover.

[Jorel]

Is not the Minion War series such a crossover?

[DhAkael]

Is not the Minion War series such a crossover?

Wot 'ee sed!

Oh, and Sourcebook 2; The mechanoids, and Rifts Convervion Book (1st ed; the revised was P.O.S.). Just saying...

Seriously it's not that big an issue though. The only people who will be confused are newbs and there are FAR too few of those now-a-days thanks to the lack of customer service and negative propganda flourishing in the RPG.net forums and other web-sites. Also, anyone wanting to write any material for a new book / Rifter article will be constrained (Re; WULfen as opposed to Wolfen, even though Phaseworld Book 1, 1st printing, clearly states that the WOLFEN of the 3 galaxies are related to the Palladium Fantasy 'verse) in what material can be included and how it is used.

Sadly, due to the stupidity and esoteric nature of copy-right and trademark laws in the USA media, yes, signing over Rifts means that ANYTHING else linked into it, even if it's just a word or sentence relating to another of the game lines, allows for the 2nd party to gain the rights (and exclusivity) to exploit that OTHER property.

Yeah... lawyers... *shrug* what can ya do? Personally I'll just keep on using the spirit AND letter of the 1st edition Rifts and other PB games and cross-over to my hearts content, and inform new players (heh, yeah right) about what the original mission statment for Rifts was; a megaverse of possibilities.

[Jorel]

Granted that didn't cover AtB2, Nightbane or Splicers to make it cover all areas it did cross Palladium Fantasy, Heroes Unlimited, Rifts Dimensions, and about to be plain ol Rifts.

[glitterboy2098]

i actually talked to PB and kevin about this, as part of figuring out certain aspects of my freelancer work.
crossovers within the different palladium lines are allowed, you just need to keep them low key.. it is one thing to mention wolfen in rifts for example, a totally different thing to have the PFRPG wolfen empire annex part of rifts earth.

the main thing is to keep the lines separate enough that if using material you don't need another line to play it or make a film off it. (for the game, this helps keep animosity over how many books are required to a minimum. for non-game products, it prevents the owner of one license from claiming all of PB's licenses.)

the main effect, from what i've been told, is that if you want to include elements from another line, you need to do one of two things..
either referance a book already in the line you are working on (like say the rifts conversion book series for rifts), or include enough material in the book/article you are writing that it can stand alone.

the preferance is actually the latter though.. at least for things like organizations and the like. (obviously the conversion books are good for races, monsters, and magic.)

so if you want a wolfen empire in rifts for example, you'd need to include all the cultural stuff in that work, and leave references to links to PFRPG vague and non-specific.

[Spinachcat]

I wrote a mini-campaign Seven Years on Cerebus for the Rifter 0 PDF project and its a huge hodgepodge of crossover, specifically mixing Rifts and Splicers. There was no issue with PB about the article having any crossover of IP.

Also, didn't PB do a Rifts crossover last year with Heavy Metal magazine?

[glitterboy2098]

the rifter is a special case because the material is generally unofficial. from what i understand its material is not included in the licensing agreements palladium is offering.

[NMI]

There was a NightSPAWN / Heroes Unlimited crossover story in one of the Rifters. Rifts has NPC's from BtS [Victor Lazlo] and Heroes Unlimited [various mutants - one is in Rifts: Mercenaries] Ninjas & Super Spies [again, see Rifts: Mercenaries]

Technically, After the Bomb 1st ed and 2nd ed both have a Heroes Unlimited crossover - the Emperor of "Empire of Humanity" has the mutant ability of APS: Stone

Heroes Unlimited 2nd ed revised [the white cover] could be considered to have crossover material in it, as I believe the original, unrevised, blue cover HU did not have mutant animals in it which was a staple of TMNT/AtB.

[jaymz]

Also I believe there is Chiang-Ku Tattoo master in one of the HU books. There is a smattering of "crossovers" between the lines already though certain things did and still do irk people, like teh removal of the PF Dragon Hatchlings in favour of "Rifts" Dragon Hatchlings.

[glitterboy2098]

keep in mind most of those originated well before the adoption of this policy.. it isn't retroactive, it just governs newer products. (starting a few years ago and moving forward)

[everloss]

So... people are not allowed to combine different ideas from different games, all of which are owned by Palladium Books?

Doesn't that basically negate the entire idea/philosophy of The Megaverse? Or am I just reading all of these posts incorrectly?

[jaymz]

No, it means they won't do so in any "official" way. You will still see crossovers in Rifter articles likely

[everloss]

Well that makes sense.

It would be pretty stupid to have the SDF-3 fold into Mutants in Orbit and become a major faction, and then lose the Robotech license and have to retcon the whole thing.

I'm all for keeping the settings separate on an official level.

[Zer0 Kay]

keep in mind most of those originated well before the adoption of this policy.. it isn't retroactive, it just governs newer products. (starting a few years ago and moving forward)

that makes no sense what so ever if the legal system cared and didn't recognize individual licenses remain individual and due to a crossover are not part of a package. Fox, Sony and Disney would all be screwed.
Sony couldn't do Spiderman because he appeared in both X-men and Avengers, Fox couldn't use Wolverine because he's been in multiple titles. Disney/Marvel studios because many of the avengers have also had cross overs.
IF the law cared about crossovers it wouldn't care that they've recently changed their policy and would instead see that all things produced prior to their policy change would be affected, essentially meaning the whole megaverse.

[MADMANMIKE]

I'm surprised that this thread is still getting traction...

Doesn't the rifter completely negate PBs idea of keeping the IPs seperate?

No, as clearly most of the Rifter is unofficial material..

PB thinks if someone buys the rights to produce one title that if it contains a crossover with another IP that they will have given up the rights to the other IP as well. Doesn't the Rifter combine or rather contain all their IPs?

How did you come by this information? I've never seen any evidence to support it.. Do you have some sort of mind reading ability the rest of us don't?

So... get back to making crossovers again.

I have pretty much every Palladium Book there is, and I can honestly say I have no hope of using all of the information published so far.. Palladium making crossovers isn't on my wish list, as each of their settings is awesome enough for me on their own.

Thinking that one IP automatically grants access to another is ridiculous and shows that their lawyer or whoever does their IP negotiations sucks. For example, Marvel sold the rights to spiderman to sony. How many crossovers with other Marvel liscenses/titles has spiderman had? Yet Sony couldn't make Avengers second string nor could they do Fantastic 4 without getting those rights. Showing that it is completely possible to make the different IPs seperate liscenses and still produce crossovers.

So again I say, get back to work and include those crossovers!

Again, how do you know what Palladium thinks? It seems that you are drawing conclusions that you can't possibly have enough evidence to support..

[jdarr5000]

I was kinda wondering if the rule regarding no RT content in the rifter will extend to persons submiting mission sinareros for rt tatics as well as battle reports and the likes that you often see posted for the other big Mini companies.

[The Galactus Kid]

I was kinda wondering if the rule regarding no RT content in the rifter will extend to persons submiting mission sinareros for rt tatics as well as battle reports and the likes that you often see posted for the other big Mini companies.

I'd be extremely surprised in PB/HG would entertain the notion of submitted scenarios for RRT for publication.

Yeah. i'm pretty sure that anything Robotech is off-limits.

[Prince Artemis]

Just another point, and this is speculation on my point, but when they license something, like rifts, there is likely specifics on what books can be used and a list of exceptions for each one. This is why the second fantastic four movie used galactus but couldn't actually show him (they didn't have license for his image).

So, cross over work doesn't really cause a problem, as long as it's clear enough that it could be added to the exception list.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I was kinda wondering if the rule regarding no RT content in the rifter will extend to persons submitting mission scenarios for RT tactics as well as battle reports and the likes that you often see posted for the other big Mini companies.

I'd be extremely surprised in PB/HG would entertain the notion of submitted scenarios for RRT for publication.

Yeah. i'm pretty sure that anything Robotech is off-limits.

I am agreeing with GK because I think the "no conversions rule" also covers "no fan material for the rifters".

--------------------

Just another point, and this is speculation on my point, but when they license something, like rifts, there is likely specifics on what books can be used and a list of exceptions for each one. This is why the second fantastic four movie used galactus but couldn't actually show him (they didn't have license for his image).

So, cross over work doesn't really cause a problem, as long as it's clear enough that it could be added to the exception list.

Rifts is a PB property. So it would better when talking about licensees the topic should be on Robotech (1st & 2nd eds), Macross II or TMNT. They are the licensees PB has gotten.
-------------
As to the Rifts Setting......It Is One Big Crossover of All the PB settings, in one way or another. Why? (to the ones who don't understand)...There are "RIFTS"!!!! duh.

[glitterboy2098]

when i talked to kevin about the issue, he implied this came out of discussions he had with the company's lawyer. i suspect palladium was told what could happen if a liscense contract wasn't completely clear cut, so they're taking steps to insulate themselves in the event a bigger company getting a PB license tries to loophole their way into controlling extra stuff.

[Tor]

I'm having trouble following what this thread is about...

I know Robotech/TMNT were external, everything else appears native to Palladium though...

Is it something like 'if we sell the rights to a Rifts movie, we're in effect selling the rights to make any movie based on any game because of Megaversal crossover' or something? May be missing the message or issue...

[glitterboy2098]

basically, if they mess up their licensing contracts, crossovers between the lines could let the holder of say, the rifts movie liscense claim Heroes Unlimited or Beyond the Supernatural and prevent the sale of those licenses to other buyers. by limiting the amount of direct crossovers between their game lines, they can minimize the chances of something like that.

[MADMANMIKE]

basically, if they mess up their licensing contracts, crossovers between the lines could let the holder of say, the rifts movie liscense claim Heroes Unlimited or Beyond the Supernatural and prevent the sale of those licenses to other buyers. by limiting the amount of direct crossovers between their game lines, they can minimize the chances of something like that.

Well said. Dealing with big money movie-makers has to be swimming with sharks. You have to protect yourself.

[Tor]

I could see a bigger problem with Wormwood or Skraypers due to dimension-book status than something like Nightbane or HU, but I guess plausibly anything.