Do curses last after the spellcaster's death?

[Glistam]

A PC in our game got successfully tagged with a curse spell by an NPC caster. The NPC caster was successfully killed, and now the question remains: Does the curse end now that the caster has perished, or does it last for it's duration as written until a Remove Curse or some other remedy is used? Any book and page numbers that could be listed for reference, either way, would be greatly appreciated.

[Grell]

I would rule that the curse remains either until the duration expires or some other remedy is applied.

[Nekira Sudacne]

A PC in our game got successfully tagged with a curse spell by an NPC caster. The NPC caster was successfully killed, and now the question remains: Does the curse end now that the caster has perished, or does it last for it's duration as written until a Remove Curse or some other remedy is used? Any book and page numbers that could be listed for reference, either way, would be greatly appreciated.

The offcial rules are clear: unless otherwise noted or made permanent, all spells instantly end when the caster dies. Death Curse is the only one that's clearly exempted, as it can only be used while the caster is dying.

Also, if TTGD rules are used, spells will sometimes become alive and manifest physical avatars, but that's kind of an exception.

[drewkitty ~..~]

NS can you give us the location of the rules (spells ending w/spellcaster death) you are talking about?

Is asking because I do not remember seeing any such rules like that.

Thus, spells would just run up to the end of their duration and end then. The why you are stating it, it is like the spell-casters are maintaing the spells after they are cast. Which would run counter to the concept that spells are not maintained by the caster once they are cast by the put forth in the concept of the "Energize Spell" invocation (pg. 111 RBoM).

[Glistam]

The offcial rules are clear: unless otherwise noted or made permanent, all spells instantly end when the caster dies. Death Curse is the only one that's clearly exempted, as it can only be used while the caster is dying.

Not to rush you, but it would be quite valuable if you could cite the Rifts book and page number where these "official rules" reside. Our next game is approaching fast and this will be an issue right from the start. Thanks.

[wyrmraker]

Huh. I read through both RMB and RUE sections on magic, and nowhere does it make mention of a caster's death ending the duration of a spell. That doesn't mean it's not there, but that I am not seeing it. I, too, would like to know where this ruling is.

[Damian Magecraft]

Huh. I read through both RMB and RUE sections on magic, and nowhere does it make mention of a caster's death ending the duration of a spell. That doesn't mean it's not there, but that I am not seeing it. I, too, would like to know where this ruling is.

AFAIK there is no such rule.

[Glistam]

I don't know which Curse, the G.M. hasn't revealed it yet because the P.C. hasn't felt its effects yet.

[drewkitty ~..~]

"Does the curse end now that the caster has perished, or does it last for it's duration as written until a Remove Curse or some other remedy is used?"

According to my understanding of the text, curse spells work just like any other spell and lasts till the end of the duration. Unless a Remove Curse is successful in removing it or the spell-caster cancels it (if he can.)

Now if the GM made up his own curse spell for his/her NPC I would like you to get him/her to post it over in the invented magic topic in the magic & psi forum.

[Eclipse]

Eh, maybe it's mentioned in a non-Rifts palladium book, or somewhere really obscure. Makes more sense to me that once you've spent your PPE and cast your spell, it's out of the caster's hands so to speak, so the death of the caster shouldn't do anything.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Eh, maybe it's mentioned in a non-Rifts palladium book, or somewhere really obscure.
..snip

Which is why the polite 'where is it?' asking, that I started with.

[Rimmerdal]

As a basic a rule I'd list a curse with no Duration permanent until cured or its ran its coarse if one was set at time of casting. and if I were in a bad mood any family like the son, daughter, wife or friends may well inherit the curse via that curses coming to life trick and 'haunting' them after the PC perishes (and if the mage was powerful enough to do it).

A remove curse spell, the curse bearer getting killed and a counter curse I would think count as reversals. The original caster of said curse getting killed or perishing will not remove a curse. It does mean you need to find a counter as the one who cast is the only real person who can remove it with out issues.

I sort of took the DC Universe approach to magic though so take the following as you will and we can debate it in a another thread if you want. Magic is tied to the caster and can only be turned on or off by him, So any spells or barriers he sets up can only be removed by their creator. Some spells do exist to counter and remove magic not your own but the magic saves as the person who originally made it happen.

[Tor]

The offcial rules are clear: unless otherwise noted or made permanent, all spells instantly end when the caster dies.

Just to be clear, where is this noted? Just wondering where it got mentioned first.

[The Baron of chaos]

The offcial rules are clear: unless otherwise noted or made permanent, all spells instantly end when the caster dies.

Hmm I think you're making a mistake here. as far as Palladium Books go, there is no such rules . Once gone the spell last indipendently from the spellcaster(using a TTGD analogy, they are temporary a living spiritual being so to speak). The only spells who could istantly end with the death of spellcaster, IMHO, are those noted so, and those that require direct interaction from the spellcaster(Like charismatic Aura as example)

[Nekira Sudacne]

I could have sworn I read it in RUE, but I've checked twice and I can't find it. I'm certain it was somewhere, maybe TTGD or Mysteries of Magic. Oh well.

When I do run across it, I'll post it for you all. If I can't find it, perhaps it's just my imagination.

[Tor]

I am wondering if rather than generic rules there might be isolated mentions under some spells like "the only hope is to kill the caster" or something along those lines.

[Incriptus]

I personally think that curses are much more effective when you can't "murder your way out of them" . . . heck the leaving your enemies alive is generally a bad idea if violence against you solves the problem.

[Nightmask]

I personally think that curses are much more effective when you can't "murder your way out of them" . . . heck the leaving your enemies alive is generally a bad idea if violence against you solves the problem.

The African Witch is one of the cases of someone who inflicts curses that it explicitly makes it impossible to remove the curse if you kill the Witch, you HAVE to get it removed while the Witch is alive and hope no one else kills it in the meantime.

[Rimmerdal]

I personally think that curses are much more effective when you can't "murder your way out of them" . . . heck the leaving your enemies alive is generally a bad idea if violence against you solves the problem.

The African Witch is one of the cases of someone who inflicts curses that it explicitly makes it impossible to remove the curse if you kill the Witch, you HAVE to get it removed while the Witch is alive and hope no one else kills it in the meantime.

and being hard to get rid of they should be difficult to cast as well. To prevent PC's from using 'Weaponized' curses to kill there enemies.

[Nightmask]

I personally think that curses are much more effective when you can't "murder your way out of them" . . . heck the leaving your enemies alive is generally a bad idea if violence against you solves the problem.

The African Witch is one of the cases of someone who inflicts curses that it explicitly makes it impossible to remove the curse if you kill the Witch, you HAVE to get it removed while the Witch is alive and hope no one else kills it in the meantime.

and being hard to get rid of they should be difficult to cast as well. To prevent PC's from using 'Weaponized' curses to kill there enemies.

Which is why those sorts tend to be restricted to NPC so the PC can't go around doing things like that.

[The Beast]

I could have sworn I read it in RUE, but I've checked twice and I can't find it. I'm certain it was somewhere, maybe TTGD or Mysteries of Magic. Oh well.

When I do run across it, I'll post it for you all. If I can't find it, perhaps it's just my imagination.

Maybe it's in a Q&A section of a Rifter. I remember reading something similar, though it was about spells in general, not curses.

Having said that, the spell Chant/Ritual to Remove Taboo/Curse in WB4 specifies that killing the taboo maker results in the curse becoming permanent and a second one gets added. However they may only be talking about the African Witch and not curses in general on that one.

[Eclipse]

Eh, maybe it's mentioned in a non-Rifts palladium book, or somewhere really obscure.
..snip

Which is why the polite 'where is it?' asking, that I started with.

Guess I skipped over that post.

[Tor]

African Witch is one of the cases of someone who inflicts curses that it explicitly makes it impossible to remove the curse if you kill the Witch, you HAVE to get it removed while the Witch is alive and hope no one else kills it in the meantime.

I don't take that to mean that other curses do expire when a caster dies.

Rather, African Witch curses (I assume we mean Taboo, the only permanent curse I remember in Africa, which oddly enough Medicine Men also have, and Medicine Men are definitely available NPCs) just have that indefinite duration, whereas with other curses you can just wait out or use a simple remove curse to get rid of.

those sorts tend to be restricted to NPC so the PC can't go around doing things like that.

Except they can, since Medicine Men can do Taboo, and plus, pretty much any class given an experience table is on the table as a PC. If something were truly off limits then Kev shouldn't provide experience tables for them.

But heck, even if Medicine Men didn't exist, and even if you can't play an African Witch, there's ALWAYS a way.

Miclantecutli's Command, for example.