Wilk's Laser Sword

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

There's a Wilk's laser knife in New West. If there's a book with a laser sword in it, I'm not remembering it.

[Mercdog]

IIRC, it's in Merc Ops. But I could be wrong about that.

Anybody got their books?

[Faceless Dude]

IIRC, it's in Merc Ops. But I could be wrong about that.

Anybody got their books?

It is in Merc Ops, but I'm not getting up for a page number. Confirm it is in there though

[Wooly]

IIRC, it's in Merc Ops. But I could be wrong about that.

Anybody got their books?

It is in Merc Ops, but I'm not getting up for a page number. Confirm it is in there though

Confirmed, p.104

[Pepsi Jedi]

Indeed. Sorry I didn't see this thread till now. I've got that one book marked. lol

My char's use them instead of vibro blades. *Looks to name then back* You can imagine why. (( and yes sometimes that means I have to decide between lighting it up vs stealth in night ops or something. It's still worth it)) Sometimes style and flavor are worth much more than stats.

That they also do rather large damage is a bonus, but I'd use them even if they didn't.

As a side note, I think the back of Aliens Unlimited has all sorts of "Light weapons" Swords, axes, knives, two handed swords, arrows, stars, pole arms. ect. (( THey also have a few other exotic things there.))

[drewkitty ~..~]

Aliens Unlimited has energy swords (& other energy ancient weapons.)

[Pepsi Jedi]

Aliens Unlimited has energy swords (& other energy ancient weapons.)

*points right above your post*

[Pepsi Jedi]

For anyone that does use these weapons regularly: How do you handle the limited payload and the fact that they don't take a normal e-clip (for some stupid reason)? Also, does not being able to parry really hinder you in combat?

I use them all the time when we play.

The limited payload, honestly doesn't come up. I've never been in a fight that lasted more than eighty melees long. 15 minutes+5D6 more minutes gives you a minimum of 20 minutes of constant use. 4 melees rounds per minute, = 80 melees. I'd say the sword very likely lasts much longer than your rifles or pistols do in sustained combat. Even if you shoot one blast per attack, not a triple or anything, you're looking at 320 blasts. long eclips have 20 or so blasts (( Some more some less I'm goin' for an average)) so that's going to be 16 eclips worth of blasts to have the equivalent.

My guys just recharge the sword when it gets close to 20 minutes. Don't 'risk' it. It's not like you have to hand crank it. You wear the adaptor on a pouch on your belt. After you use it for anything more than 15 minutes or so, you plug it in. 10 minutes later it's back to full.

As for not taking the normal eclip, it states that they come with the adapter cables to plug in and recharge off a normal eclip. (( I assume it drains the eclip, but it doesn't say... it'd be a GM call if he wants the 'Charge" to take an entire eclip or one "Shot" off the eclip. I've seen it go both ways. we usually go for a full eclip's worth of charge))

The parry thing, we usually house rule that they work...... Ahem.... Just like..... Other swords of similar make. It's no different than a vibrosword in that aspect. If you parry with a vibrosword it's going to cut what it parrys too. So that part doesn't often factor in. Most people seeing you use a "Wilks Laser Sword" will assume it will cut when it touches something.

The aspect they do differ from a vibro sword is the lack of stealth. At night when you light up a "Wilks laser sword" you're likely going to stand out. So you keep that in mind. I've never really played that the 'vibration' of vibro weapons can be heard more than a few inches from the blade. So vibro weapons are 'silent' and don't glow. Wilks laser swords, you're going to have a meter long light blade. Just keep that in mind if you use it at night.

Edit: Depending on your GM you can have a 'counter' too. Energy weapons have them, letting you know how much you have left in the clip. Myself and other GM's have also said the clip has some sort of indicator. Even if it's just a groove with a line that goes up as you use the eclip. This same concept can be used for the Wilks Laser sword. A simple indicator on the grip or the pommel that ticks off as the charge depletes.

This is __NOT__ Expressly stated. But eclips aren't really covered other than to say they exist, come in short and long verieties, and the russians use different ones. (( In ourgames the different companies use different ones, but again, that's us))

[flatline]

What limits the length of the laser sword?

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

For anyone that does use these weapons regularly: How do you handle the limited payload and the fact that they don't take a normal e-clip (for some stupid reason)? Also, does not being able to parry really hinder you in combat?

I use them all the time when we play.

The limited payload, honestly doesn't come up. I've never been in a fight that lasted more than eighty melees long. 15 minutes+5D6 more minutes gives you a minimum of 20 minutes of constant use. 4 melees rounds per minute, = 80 melees. I'd say the sword very likely lasts much longer than your rifles or pistols do in sustained combat. Even if you shoot one blast per attack, not a triple or anything, you're looking at 320 blasts. long eclips have 20 or so blasts (( Some more some less I'm goin' for an average)) so that's going to be 16 eclips worth of blasts to have the equivalent.

My guys just recharge the sword when it gets close to 20 minutes. Don't 'risk' it. It's not like you have to hand crank it. You wear the adaptor on a pouch on your belt. After you use it for anything more than 15 minutes or so, you plug it in. 10 minutes later it's back to full.

As for not taking the normal eclip, it states that they come with the adapter cables to plug in and recharge off a normal eclip. (( I assume it drains the eclip, but it doesn't say... it'd be a GM call if he wants the 'Charge" to take an entire eclip or one "Shot" off the eclip. I've seen it go both ways. we usually go for a full eclip's worth of charge))

The parry thing, we usually house rule that they work...... Ahem.... Just like..... Other swords of similar make. It's no different than a vibrosword in that aspect. If you parry with a vibrosword it's going to cut what it parrys too. So that part doesn't often factor in. Most people seeing you use a "Wilks Laser Sword" will assume it will cut when it touches something.

The aspect they do differ from a vibro sword is the lack of stealth. At night when you light up a "Wilks laser sword" you're likely going to stand out. So you keep that in mind. I've never really played that the 'vibration' of vibro weapons can be heard more than a few inches from the blade. So vibro weapons are 'silent' and don't glow. Wilks laser swords, you're going to have a meter long light blade. Just keep that in mind if you use it at night.

Edit: Depending on your GM you can have a 'counter' too. Energy weapons have them, letting you know how much you have left in the clip. Myself and other GM's have also said the clip has some sort of indicator. Even if it's just a groove with a line that goes up as you use the eclip. This same concept can be used for the Wilks Laser sword. A simple indicator on the grip or the pommel that ticks off as the charge depletes.

This is __NOT__ Expressly stated. But eclips aren't really covered other than to say they exist, come in short and long verieties, and the russians use different ones. (( In ourgames the different companies use different ones, but again, that's us))

Wilks laser swords do cut everything they touch IIRC, dunno about vibro blades though. I always thought the field would have just been on the "edge" portion of the blade. Still though, thanks for the info. I think I'll stick with the vibro-weapons. The campaigns I usually run and play in, players can't really afford to be using an e-clip for a melee weapon that lasts 20 minutes rather than one that lasts potentially years.

Well not putting too fine a point on it, but you parry with the edge of the blade, not the flat. If you parry something with the flat of a sword, you're risking that sword being snapped at the point of impact. If you're using mega damage weapons (( Where in you're parrying with a vibro blade)) Even more so. So you're not going to let something doing MD hit the flat of your sword.

cutting what ever your parrying isn't really something I count as a negative.

I can understand that it costs more to run them. For me (( and just speaking for myself)) They're more than worth it. I've seldom been so hard up on my luck I couldn't recharge my weapons. If so, that's my fault, and again it's on me.

As for the Vibroweapon vs Wilks Energy sword... it's actually hard to find, but I did so. The Wilks Laser sword goes for a MINIMUM of 20 continuous minutes. Anyone wanting to live will not push them past the minimum unless they have to, but they can.

A vibro blade can run for an hour of continuous use. (( It's hard to find, but I found a thread that found the answers in FAQ's.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=114508&p=2200176&hilit=Vibro+blade+clip#p2200176

Stormgryphhen found it about 3/4ths of the way down the first page.

So the Vibro blade will go about 3 times as long as a laser sword, but requires it's own special eclip.

[Pepsi Jedi]

What limits the length of the laser sword?

--flatline

I know that you can create laser fields by bouncing them around inside of a magnetic field but there is no kind of mention of this in the books. So power usage I guess? Maybe a fail safe to keep consumers from loping their own limbs off?

It's just what the designers have said. In this case, it's 3 feet. Like the 'Range" on some laser weapons is 1000 ft and some are 1200 ft. In this case the 'length' is 3 feet.


In the back of Aliens unlimited they do have two handed laser swords.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Yeah. I had remembered reading that Vibro blades took special little eclips and they did have a limit, but I looked through like 10 books before I came back around, figuring the question had to be asked here too. Man you get ALOT of replies when you put in Vibroblade and clip. lol But, sure enough someone had asked the question 2 years ago (( they may have asked previous but naturally I stopped looking when I found the answer.

Those answers coming from the "Official FAQ" are canon for Rifts.

HARD to find that information. I think I might jot a post it and stick it in my book.

Intrestingly enough. You CAN find the "Mini-eclip" in the Game master guide. They cost 2,000 credits.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Yeah. I had remembered reading that Vibro blades took special little eclips and they did have a limit, but I looked through like 10 books before I came back around, figuring the question had to be asked here too. Man you get ALOT of replies when you put in Vibroblade and clip. lol But, sure enough someone had asked the question 2 years ago (( they may have asked previous but naturally I stopped looking when I found the answer.

Those answers coming from the "Official FAQ" are canon for Rifts.

HARD to find that information. I think I might jot a post it and stick it in my book.

Intrestingly enough. You CAN find the "Mini-eclip" in the Game master guide. They cost 2,000 credits.

I was going to use the ones described under the wilks laser wand in RUE that only costs 500. Still, the vibro-weapons are only SLIGHTLY more cost effective than the laser weapons

Yeah but you gotta factor in STYLE and such.

I read a quote in a Transformer comic when I was like 10. It was from Jazz. lol I'm 34, and I remember it today. 'If you can't do it with Style, don't bother doin' it.

Eeeeveryone and their mother has vibro weapons, but when you pull that saber hilt from your belt and thumb it on and there's the snap-hiss of the blade extending. The green glow..... *nods* Worth the extra money. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Yeah they do 5d6, but I'd use um even if they did LESS than Vibro weapons.

[dragonfett]

On a similar note, do vibro spears and vibro axes and basically vibro weapons OTHER THAN vibro knives/swords/claws? I had played a Bearman of the North Headhunter and my initial concept had him wielding a vibro-axe in melee combat, but I could never find hint that such a thing even existed, so I just have had to settle for a large (normal size for him) vibro sword.

As an aside, I had gotten the idea for that character after seeing a demotivational poster that had a a bear standing up with a back pack on and holding a machine gun, standing guard over a frightened little girl. The heading read "2nd Amendment Rights" and the caption read "The Right to Arm Bears... Wait wut?"

[Pepsi Jedi]

Yeah they have pretty much the full compliment of bladed weapons. You can find them spread out a bit.

Also in Naurni wave two there are "Ripper" Vibro weapons, and there's even a wicked looking double headed axe in the illistration.

Game master guide. Page 124 CS/General Vibroblades. (( CS Developed them but they're knocked off by every company that makes weapons.

Knife
Bayonet
Saber
Sword
Giant sword
Spear
Axe (4d6 MD by the way)
Pole arm
Forearm claws
Vambraces
Page 125
Short blade hand guard
Triple bladded cats claw
Dual long blade hand guard
Hooked forearm blades
Dogpack spikes

Japanese Vibro blades
Page 136 (( Still in Game Master guide))
Bayonet
Knife (Tanto, Jitte or sai)
Saber,short sword, Ninja to
Sword, large one handed
Wakizashi
Katana
Robot sword

Hbrand (( Still in Game Master Guide))
No-Dachi
Kusari Gama (sickle)
Yagi (spear)
Naginata (Curved spear) or Bisento (Broad bladed spear)
Arm claws
Tiger claws/ninja climbing claws.

Page 154, Native American weapons (( under powered compaired to others.)) (( still in Game master guide))
Vibro axe/ Tomahawk
Spear

RUE has the same list of CS/ General Page 259
Knife
Bayonet
Short sword
Sword
Giant sword
Forearm claws
Vambraces
Short blade hand guard
Cats claw hand guard
Dual long blade hand guard
Hooked forearm blades
Saber forearmblades
Dog pack spikes

(( These same ones are repeated, with pictures for the hand guards in Lone Star, page48 and 49)

Naruni wave 2
Pages 23- 24 "Ripper vibroblades" Stronger and silver coated. "multiple" vibration fields/frequencies
Knife
Bayonet
Saber
Sword
Robot Sword
Spear
Axe
Polearm
Claws
Spines

Hope these help. There's more but... well the list had gotten long, hopefully you can find something to your liking

[Armorlord]

As far as the no parrying thing, I'm ok with that, besides the science of it making decent sense, the fun part about the inability to parry is that it goes both ways. The opponent can't parry it either. At least until after they figure out that they need to go for your hand/arm instead, which they may not be able to close enough to affect.
Great for paired weapon fighting with the Laser Sword in the main hand and a good solid weapon as the main-gauche.

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip.
Game master guide. Page 124 CS/General Vibroblades. (( CS Developed them but they're knocked off by every company that makes weapons.

HU:AU page 164 vibro weapons & Kisentite Weapons
battle axe
pole arms
spear
knives
Sword
2-H Sword
Clubs
Katana
Kusari-Gama

page 165 energy weapons
axe
pole arms
spear
knives
sword
2-H sword
stun clubs
arrows
katana
kusari-Gama
shuriken

exotica
Particle whip
clippers
cestus
razars

[Pepsi Jedi]

snip.
Game master guide. Page 124 CS/General Vibroblades. (( CS Developed them but they're knocked off by every company that makes weapons.

HU:AU page 164 vibro weapons & Kisentite Weapons
battle axe
pole arms
spear
knives
Sword
2-H Sword
Clubs
Katana
Kusari-Gama

page 165 energy weapons
axe
pole arms
spear
knives
sword
2-H sword
stun clubs
arrows
katana
kusari-Gama
shuriken

exotica
Particle whip
clippers
cestus
razars

I have these on an index card in my RUE on the same page as the vibro blades. lol Thanks again for pointing them out to me a while back.

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip.
Game master guide. Page 124 CS/General Vibroblades. (( CS Developed them but they're knocked off by every company that makes weapons.

HU:AU page 164 vibro weapons & Kisentite Weapons
battle axe
pole arms
spear
knives
Sword
2-H Sword
Clubs
Katana
Kusari-Gama

page 165 energy weapons
axe
pole arms
spear
knives
sword
2-H sword
stun clubs
arrows
katana
kusari-Gama
shuriken

exotica
Particle whip
clippers
cestus
razars

I have these on an index card in my RUE on the same page as the vibro blades. lol Thanks again for pointing them out to me a while back.

These V-blades are a good resorce for GM's to use for how much damage v-baldes do to SDC structures.

[Mack]

Personally, I like the Wilk's Laser Sword because it's convienent. Lugging around a 3ft long sword day-after-day becomes rather tedious. And the Wilk's has better damage to boot!

Also, you know how some characters can be a member of the Cyber-Knights without the OCC (such as a Borg or Mage who joins the order)? I have all of those carry a Wilk's in place of their Psi-Sword.

[dragonfett]

snip.
Game master guide. Page 124 CS/General Vibroblades. (( CS Developed them but they're knocked off by every company that makes weapons.

HU:AU page 164 vibro weapons & Kisentite Weapons
battle axe
pole arms
spear
knives
Sword
2-H Sword
Clubs
Katana
Kusari-Gama

page 165 energy weapons
axe
pole arms
spear
knives
sword
2-H sword
stun clubs
arrows
katana
kusari-Gama
shuriken

exotica
Particle whip
clippers
cestus
razars

Thank you for your replies. I had also found a Vibro Fire Axe in Rifts Chaos Earth. Now I will have to re-look at the GMG again. Looking at the Particle whip just gave me ideas for a villian for a campaign. Thanks all!

[Pepsi Jedi]

The cyberknightbook mentions vibro shovels, no stats but apperently they exist and really help in burying corpses.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Are vibro-arrow heads a thing? I can't remember if they are canon or if I just pretended they where

Nope, no vibro-arrowheads. They'd be mighty expensive if they did exist. A vibro-knife is 7000 credits, so even if the arrowheads only cost a tenth of that, they'd still be more than twice as expensive as the medium explosive arrowheads that inflict 1d6 MD.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Rifts is pretty "Anti bow/arrow" for the most part. You CAN find "MD explosive Arrow heads, or even TW things that use arrows but they're crazy expensive. The recent techno wizard article had a TWCross bow, but the MD bolts were 500C each.


IF... you're looking for low priced MD damage bow though... look for the Laser bow. LOL it might enrage people, but technically it's canon. You draw the compound bow string and THAT pulls a plunger, and that charges the thing, and it shoots the laser. I forget the break down (( I did the math once)) but it'll save you LOADS and loads on recharging Eclips. tens of thousands of credits if memory serves.

Warning though... some people here will beat you up if you use it. LOL it causes some pretty big nerd rage.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Rifts is pretty "Anti bow/arrow" for the most part. You CAN find "MD explosive Arrow heads, or even TW things that use arrows but they're crazy expensive. The recent techno wizard article had a TWCross bow, but the MD bolts were 500C each.


IF... you're looking for low priced MD damage bow though... look for the Laser bow. LOL it might enrage people, but technically it's canon. You draw the compound bow string and THAT pulls a plunger, and that charges the thing, and it shoots the laser. I forget the break down (( I did the math once)) but it'll save you LOADS and loads on recharging Eclips. tens of thousands of credits if memory serves.

Warning though... some people here will beat you up if you use it. LOL it causes some pretty big nerd rage.

The Bow That Shall Not Be Named...

I was looking at its entry in the GMG only hours ago while making sure I wasn't wrong about vibro-arrows. What a monstrosity!

[ShadowLogan]

IF... you're looking for low priced MD damage bow though... look for the Laser bow. LOL it might enrage people, but technically it's canon. You draw the compound bow string and THAT pulls a plunger, and that charges the thing, and it shoots the laser. I forget the break down (( I did the math once)) but it'll save you LOADS and loads on recharging Eclips. tens of thousands of credits if memory serves.

I could be wrong as I don't have the book, but I thought I heard said weapon had an above normal human strength requirement.

Game master guide. Page 124 CS/General Vibroblades. (( CS Developed them but they're knocked off by every company that makes weapons.

I don't believe this is so. The CS inventory is based heavily on pre-Rifts designs (Canada), and given Japan has Vibro-blades (and the Pre-Rifts Vibro-Fire-axe) it would look like CS rediscovered them for NA.

On a similar note, do vibro spears and vibro axes and basically vibro weapons OTHER THAN vibro knives/swords/claws? I had played a Bearman of the North Headhunter and my initial concept had him wielding a vibro-axe in melee combat, but I could never find hint that such a thing even existed, so I just have had to settle for a large (normal size for him) vibro sword.

There is a Vibro-Axe in WB#21 pg 171 (Octurill Vibro-Axe, it's designed for tentacles and not hands, but can be modified or used as a basis for a normal human limb).

If Kittani-style Plasma Weapons are viewed as being in the same class as Vibro Blades (subbing the vibration element for plasma field), then there are a few options here (WB#2 in the Kittani equipment, WB#9 the Minotaur PA).

[flatline]

Rifts is pretty "Anti bow/arrow" for the most part. You CAN find "MD explosive Arrow heads, or even TW things that use arrows but they're crazy expensive. The recent techno wizard article had a TWCross bow, but the MD bolts were 500C each.


IF... you're looking for low priced MD damage bow though... look for the Laser bow. LOL it might enrage people, but technically it's canon. You draw the compound bow string and THAT pulls a plunger, and that charges the thing, and it shoots the laser. I forget the break down (( I did the math once)) but it'll save you LOADS and loads on recharging Eclips. tens of thousands of credits if memory serves.

Warning though... some people here will beat you up if you use it. LOL it causes some pretty big nerd rage.

Nerd rage is the best kind of rage. Nobody gets hurt and maybe people learn something.

--flatline

[Colt47]

On an interesting note, while someone can't technically parry with a laser sword as the "blade" isn't a solid object, the average of 15 MD from contact is enough to cut through or significantly damage a vibro weapon. It's like trying to parry a laser torch.

[flatline]

On an interesting note, while someone can't technically parry with a laser sword as the "blade" isn't a solid object, the average of 15 MD from contact is enough to cut through or significantly damage a vibro weapon. It's like trying to parry a laser torch.

I believe that according to canon, the field around the vibro weapon makes it invulnerable...no, this makes no sense to me either...

--flatline

[Nightmask]

On an interesting note, while someone can't technically parry with a laser sword as the "blade" isn't a solid object, the average of 15 MD from contact is enough to cut through or significantly damage a vibro weapon. It's like trying to parry a laser torch.

I believe that according to canon, the field around the vibro weapon makes it invulnerable...no, this makes no sense to me either...

--flatline

Not necessarily invulnerable, but the MDC of the energy field renews itself instantly so attacks can't really deplete it faster than it can replenish it giving the appearance of invulnerability. It's more 'super-regeneration' in a tech sense. So the invulnerability isn't 'can't be damaged' it's 'can't be damaged fast enough to matter'.

[Pepsi Jedi]

IF... you're looking for low priced MD damage bow though... look for the Laser bow. LOL it might enrage people, but technically it's canon. You draw the compound bow string and THAT pulls a plunger, and that charges the thing, and it shoots the laser. I forget the break down (( I did the math once)) but it'll save you LOADS and loads on recharging Eclips. tens of thousands of credits if memory serves.

I could be wrong as I don't have the book, but I thought I heard said weapon had an above normal human strength requirement.

Strength 12. A touch on the more athletic side, but not too much so, nor anything above and beyond the norm.

Game master guide. Page 124 CS/General Vibroblades. (( CS Developed them but they're knocked off by every company that makes weapons.

I don't believe this is so. The CS inventory is based heavily on pre-Rifts designs (Canada), and given Japan has Vibro-blades (and the Pre-Rifts Vibro-Fire-axe) it would look like CS rediscovered them for NA.

RUE, page 259: Vibroblades: "Vibro-blades were originally designed by the CS, but have been "knocked off" by virtually every weapons manufacturer in the Americas."

Game master guide. Page 123: "Vibro-blades were originally designed by the CS, but have been "knocked off" by virtually every weapons manufacturer in the Americas."

Under Japanese Vibro-weapons, page 136 Game master guide
"All Vibro-Blades are blade weapons surrounded by an invisible, high-frequency energy field that gives them Mega-Damage capabilities. Both ArmaTech and H-Brand manufacture these weapons. See the descriptions under the Coalition States Weapons for a complete description of standard Vibro-Blades found worldwide. Listed here are those unique to Japan."

No indication that they developed them.

World book 8 Japan. Page 117

"All vibro-blades are blade weapons surrounded by an invisible, high-frequency energy field that gives them mega-damage capabilities. Both ArmaTech and H-Brand manufacture these weapons, although products by the former are of a superior quality and often command 20% more than the prices listed. These weapons are popular among soldiers, cyber-samurai, ronin, ninja, city rats, mercenaries, adventurers, smugglers and bandits. Note that the Shintoist of the New Empire will not use these modern weapons —anybody who does is not a true believer."

Again, no note of their development. While in two places it directly states that the CS designed them. And one of the references for Japan's directs you back to the CS. One can assume, but that's an assumption. Direct statements in two books (( Clearly a cut and past but reproduced one)) Says firmly that the CS Designed um and they've been knocked off.

On a similar note, do vibro spears and vibro axes and basically vibro weapons OTHER THAN vibro knives/swords/claws? I had played a Bearman of the North Headhunter and my initial concept had him wielding a vibro-axe in melee combat, but I could never find hint that such a thing even existed, so I just have had to settle for a large (normal size for him) vibro sword.

There is a Vibro-Axe in WB#21 pg 171 (Octurill Vibro-Axe, it's designed for tentacles and not hands, but can be modified or used as a basis for a normal human limb).

Already posted the 'normal' Vibro axe above, and the ripper.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Vibro-blades, like the SAMAS, are a technology that the CS "developed" by copying pre-Rifts technology. They're found all around the world because they were in use before the Cataclysm.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Vibro-blades, like the SAMAS, are a technology that the CS "developed" by copying pre-Rifts technology. They're found all around the world because they were in use before the Cataclysm.

Can you cite source for this? As the book says differently. I think it's an assumption. Probably a safe one, but in at least two places it says directly that the CS developed them, and in at least one other place points you back to the first.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Vibro-blades, like the SAMAS, are a technology that the CS "developed" by copying pre-Rifts technology. They're found all around the world because they were in use before the Cataclysm.

Can you cite source for this? As the book says differently. I think it's an assumption. Probably a safe one, but in at least two places it says directly that the CS developed them, and in at least one other place points you back to the first.

Page 51 of Rifts: Chaos Earth mentions that they had recently been developed for NEMA use, which means a weapons manufacturer was contracted to the government to provide them to the armed forces[there's no telling which one it was, but several survived in one form or another into the common Rifts Earth era]. Given the state of the new Cold War, foreign powers would have quickly acquired that technology through means legal or otherwise.

The Russians, Triax, Armatech, etc., all would have already possessed the knowledge of vibro-weaponry prior to the Cataclysm.

EDIT: Or in the case of Armatech, been willingly provided with it, since that company was contracted to the US government to improve designs for the Glitter Boy and SAMAS power armors. It's hard to imagine they would trust a company with such an important secret as the chromium armor creation process and not share something so mundane as vibro-weaponry. It's possible, though.

[ShadowLogan]

Vibro-blades, like the SAMAS, are a technology that the CS "developed" by copying pre-Rifts technology. They're found all around the world because they were in use before the Cataclysm.

Can you cite source for this? As the book says differently. I think it's an assumption. Probably a safe one, but in at least two places it says directly that the CS developed them, and in at least one other place points you back to the first.

Rifts "Canada" pg187 under Tundra Ranger Energy Weapons: "The original weapon arsenal of the CS Dead Boys were all based on pre-Rifts designs and technology, sometimes slightly modified. Consequently, the Tundra Rangers manufacture variations or equivalents of the Coalitions's early armaments! These include all the weapons found on pages 203-205 of the Rifts RPG, excluding Fusion Blocks and the Neural mace."

Unless the Silver Edition Hardcover has different page assignments than other versions of the Rifts Main Book (pre-RUE), that includes Vibro-blades. Other items on those pages are the C-18, C-10, C-12, C-14, C-27, CR-1, CS Hand grenades, and Dog Pack Spikes (leaving out the Fusion Block and Neural Mace as the text states).

[Pepsi Jedi]

Vibro-blades, like the SAMAS, are a technology that the CS "developed" by copying pre-Rifts technology. They're found all around the world because they were in use before the Cataclysm.

Can you cite source for this? As the book says differently. I think it's an assumption. Probably a safe one, but in at least two places it says directly that the CS developed them, and in at least one other place points you back to the first.

Rifts "Canada" pg187 under Tundra Ranger Energy Weapons: "The original weapon arsenal of the CS Dead Boys were all based on pre-Rifts designs and technology, sometimes slightly modified. Consequently, the Tundra Rangers manufacture variations or equivalents of the Coalitions's early armaments! These include all the weapons found on pages 203-205 of the Rifts RPG, excluding Fusion Blocks and the Neural mace."

Unless the Silver Edition Hardcover has different page assignments than other versions of the Rifts Main Book (pre-RUE), that includes Vibro-blades. Other items on those pages are the C-18, C-10, C-12, C-14, C-27, CR-1, CS Hand grenades, and Dog Pack Spikes (leaving out the Fusion Block and Neural Mace as the text states).

Well you can base your weapon on something and still design it yourself. Most especially with weapons I'd guess. If you had found technology, say for the vibro fire axe and went 'Hey this would be awsome tech to use for our military's hand to hand stuff" then designed the Vibroweapons. You would have 'Designed' them.

I mean if you look at any weapon technology it's 'Based off' what came before. It's not like each new gun manufacturer develops gun powder on thier own, or bullets on their own, or barrels and triggers on their own. They take known tech and modify or improve it. It's seldom that you see a radical new shift in weapons, and even then you're using many aspects of the previous incarnations.

So both technically could be true. If Chaos earth has a vibro axe, and the CS had that design they could have designed and developed the modern (( 109pa)) Vibro blade which was apparently easy technology (( comparatively)) As everyone has copied it.


Only mildly related side note. How 'Canon' is Chaos earth when it comes to "Rifts". I've got the book but admittedly haven't read most of it. I seem to remember there being enough 'differences' that it seemed to stand alone in it's own seperate line? Not that it's broken or anything but that there were enough differnces that it's questionable? Anyone remember the answer to that? I admittedly don't and the starteling lack of support for the series likely hasn't helped.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Chaos Earth can be a stand alone, but it serves as a direct historical precursor to Rifts Earth. The NEMA organization, a military alliance between the US, Canada, and Mexico, was responsible for Glitter Boys being all over the place and also employed the first SAMAS power armors, though they used Glitter Boy laser-resistant chromium armor; one of the books states that none are known to survive into the present of Rifts Earth because they were more likely to be damaged and were more difficult to repair[the volcanic ash was hell on their flight systems]. NEMA played a significant part in the survival or human civilization in North America.

There's also a reference, in the RMB I think, of the mythical Nemans, benevolent giants who fought to save humanity during the Cataclysm, demonstrating that some memory of NEMA remains in the common collective consciousness, even if they've been relegated to faerie tales. The CS, NGR, NG, and several other powers almost assuredly have files detailing the organizations existence.

The descendents of NEMA forces, who call themselves the Republicans, are detailed in the Revised SB1.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Chaos Earth can be a stand alone, but it serves as a direct historical precursor to Rifts Earth. The NEMA organization, a military alliance between the US, Canada, and Mexico, was responsible for Glitter Boys being all over the place and also employed the first SAMAS power armors, though they used Glitter Boy laser-resistant chromium armor; one of the books states that none are known to survive into the present of Rifts Earth because they were more likely to be damaged and were more difficult to repair[the volcanic ash was hell on their flight systems]. NEMA played a significant part in the survival or human civilization in North America.

There's also a reference, in the RMB I think, of the mythical Nemans, benevolent giants who fought to save humanity during the Cataclysm, demonstrating that some memory of NEMA remains in the common collective consciousness, even if they've been relegated to faerie tales. The CS, NGR, NG, and several other powers almost assuredly have files detailing the organizations existence.

The descendents of NEMA forces, who call themselves the Republicans, are detailed in the Revised SB1.

Yeah but there's also Heroes Unlimited Earth, and After the bomb earth, and Beyond the Supernatural Earth (( That many people think was 'pre rifts earth, though not so much me. If it were it'd have gotten more support. lol)) Ect. There's many alternate earths. Are we 'sure" Chaos Earth was pre- RIFTS Earth? Or is it another earth where the rifts came? I could be wrong but I thought there was some question as to that.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Chaos Earth can be a stand alone, but it serves as a direct historical precursor to Rifts Earth. The NEMA organization, a military alliance between the US, Canada, and Mexico, was responsible for Glitter Boys being all over the place and also employed the first SAMAS power armors, though they used Glitter Boy laser-resistant chromium armor; one of the books states that none are known to survive into the present of Rifts Earth because they were more likely to be damaged and were more difficult to repair[the volcanic ash was hell on their flight systems]. NEMA played a significant part in the survival or human civilization in North America.

There's also a reference, in the RMB I think, of the mythical Nemans, benevolent giants who fought to save humanity during the Cataclysm, demonstrating that some memory of NEMA remains in the common collective consciousness, even if they've been relegated to faerie tales. The CS, NGR, NG, and several other powers almost assuredly have files detailing the organizations existence.

The descendents of NEMA forces, who call themselves the Republicans, are detailed in the Revised SB1.

Yeah but there's also Heroes Unlimited Earth, and After the bomb earth, and Beyond the Supernatural Earth (( That many people think was 'pre rifts earth, though not so much me. If it were it'd have gotten more support. lol)) Ect. There's many alternate earths. Are we 'sure" Chaos Earth was pre- RIFTS Earth? Or is it another earth where the rifts came? I could be wrong but I thought there was some question as to that.

Yeah, we're sure. Revised SB1 pretty much solidified Chaos Earth as a part of the Rifts Earth setting.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Chaos Earth can be a stand alone, but it serves as a direct historical precursor to Rifts Earth. The NEMA organization, a military alliance between the US, Canada, and Mexico, was responsible for Glitter Boys being all over the place and also employed the first SAMAS power armors, though they used Glitter Boy laser-resistant chromium armor; one of the books states that none are known to survive into the present of Rifts Earth because they were more likely to be damaged and were more difficult to repair[the volcanic ash was hell on their flight systems]. NEMA played a significant part in the survival or human civilization in North America.

There's also a reference, in the RMB I think, of the mythical Nemans, benevolent giants who fought to save humanity during the Cataclysm, demonstrating that some memory of NEMA remains in the common collective consciousness, even if they've been relegated to faerie tales. The CS, NGR, NG, and several other powers almost assuredly have files detailing the organizations existence.

The descendents of NEMA forces, who call themselves the Republicans, are detailed in the Revised SB1.

Yeah but there's also Heroes Unlimited Earth, and After the bomb earth, and Beyond the Supernatural Earth (( That many people think was 'pre rifts earth, though not so much me. If it were it'd have gotten more support. lol)) Ect. There's many alternate earths. Are we 'sure" Chaos Earth was pre- RIFTS Earth? Or is it another earth where the rifts came? I could be wrong but I thought there was some question as to that.

No question. Chaos Earth absolutely is Rifts Earth of the past.

~ Josh

[Pepsi Jedi]

Chaos Earth can be a stand alone, but it serves as a direct historical precursor to Rifts Earth. The NEMA organization, a military alliance between the US, Canada, and Mexico, was responsible for Glitter Boys being all over the place and also employed the first SAMAS power armors, though they used Glitter Boy laser-resistant chromium armor; one of the books states that none are known to survive into the present of Rifts Earth because they were more likely to be damaged and were more difficult to repair[the volcanic ash was hell on their flight systems]. NEMA played a significant part in the survival or human civilization in North America.

There's also a reference, in the RMB I think, of the mythical Nemans, benevolent giants who fought to save humanity during the Cataclysm, demonstrating that some memory of NEMA remains in the common collective consciousness, even if they've been relegated to faerie tales. The CS, NGR, NG, and several other powers almost assuredly have files detailing the organizations existence.

The descendents of NEMA forces, who call themselves the Republicans, are detailed in the Revised SB1.

Yeah but there's also Heroes Unlimited Earth, and After the bomb earth, and Beyond the Supernatural Earth (( That many people think was 'pre rifts earth, though not so much me. If it were it'd have gotten more support. lol)) Ect. There's many alternate earths. Are we 'sure" Chaos Earth was pre- RIFTS Earth? Or is it another earth where the rifts came? I could be wrong but I thought there was some question as to that.

Yeah, we're sure. Revised SB1 pretty much solidified Chaos Earth as a part of the Rifts Earth setting.

But does it actually say that somewhere? "Pretty much" Isnt what I'm looking for. It LOOKS to be the direct precursor. But I could have swore somewhere there was question to it.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Chaos Earth can be a stand alone, but it serves as a direct historical precursor to Rifts Earth. The NEMA organization, a military alliance between the US, Canada, and Mexico, was responsible for Glitter Boys being all over the place and also employed the first SAMAS power armors, though they used Glitter Boy laser-resistant chromium armor; one of the books states that none are known to survive into the present of Rifts Earth because they were more likely to be damaged and were more difficult to repair[the volcanic ash was hell on their flight systems]. NEMA played a significant part in the survival or human civilization in North America.

There's also a reference, in the RMB I think, of the mythical Nemans, benevolent giants who fought to save humanity during the Cataclysm, demonstrating that some memory of NEMA remains in the common collective consciousness, even if they've been relegated to faerie tales. The CS, NGR, NG, and several other powers almost assuredly have files detailing the organizations existence.

The descendents of NEMA forces, who call themselves the Republicans, are detailed in the Revised SB1.

Yeah but there's also Heroes Unlimited Earth, and After the bomb earth, and Beyond the Supernatural Earth (( That many people think was 'pre rifts earth, though not so much me. If it were it'd have gotten more support. lol)) Ect. There's many alternate earths. Are we 'sure" Chaos Earth was pre- RIFTS Earth? Or is it another earth where the rifts came? I could be wrong but I thought there was some question as to that.

No question. Chaos Earth absolutely is Rifts Earth of the past.

~ Josh

Same as above, does it actually directly state that? or is it just assumed due to the NEMA stuff and what not? Because there's BUNCHES of people that swear up and down BTS is pre-rifts earth.

[Mack]

Considering the Space Colonies have vibro-blades, it's safe to say the CS didn't invent them. (See Mutants in Orbit.)

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Chaos Earth can be a stand alone, but it serves as a direct historical precursor to Rifts Earth. The NEMA organization, a military alliance between the US, Canada, and Mexico, was responsible for Glitter Boys being all over the place and also employed the first SAMAS power armors, though they used Glitter Boy laser-resistant chromium armor; one of the books states that none are known to survive into the present of Rifts Earth because they were more likely to be damaged and were more difficult to repair[the volcanic ash was hell on their flight systems]. NEMA played a significant part in the survival or human civilization in North America.

There's also a reference, in the RMB I think, of the mythical Nemans, benevolent giants who fought to save humanity during the Cataclysm, demonstrating that some memory of NEMA remains in the common collective consciousness, even if they've been relegated to faerie tales. The CS, NGR, NG, and several other powers almost assuredly have files detailing the organizations existence.

The descendents of NEMA forces, who call themselves the Republicans, are detailed in the Revised SB1.

Yeah but there's also Heroes Unlimited Earth, and After the bomb earth, and Beyond the Supernatural Earth (( That many people think was 'pre rifts earth, though not so much me. If it were it'd have gotten more support. lol)) Ect. There's many alternate earths. Are we 'sure" Chaos Earth was pre- RIFTS Earth? Or is it another earth where the rifts came? I could be wrong but I thought there was some question as to that.

Yeah, we're sure. Revised SB1 pretty much solidified Chaos Earth as a part of the Rifts Earth setting.

But does it actually say that somewhere? "Pretty much" Isnt what I'm looking for. It LOOKS to be the direct precursor. But I could have swore somewhere there was question to it.

Sorry, "pretty much" is just a figure of speech I'm in the habit of using when I should say "absolutely".

Chaos Earth is the precursor to Rifts Earth. There is no doubt. If NEMA soldiers were put in stasis three days after the Cataclysm and woke up two hundred ninety seven years later, they'd be on Rifts Earth circa PA 109.

In fact, ARCHIE 3 has a whole army of NEMA soldiers in stasis right now who've been on ice since the Cataclysm.

[Armorlord]

Same as above, does it actually directly state that? or is it just assumed due to the NEMA stuff and what not? Because there's BUNCHES of people that swear up and down BTS is pre-rifts earth.

Well, Kevin put out a full article in Rifter #2 on the influences of other dimensions on Rifts Earth's pre-Rifts history. Which basically boiled down to neighboring realities having leaked into and cross-contaminated the history of the world, but that the other settings were still separate dimensions. Still left some confusion as to whether Victor was the BTS Victor displaced dimensionally or the Rifts version of Victor displaced in time.

Personally, to me it raised the question to me whether any 'history' of Rifts Earth was truly its own before the Coming of the Rifts. Particularly when combined with the fact that time travelers are unable to cross that point either.

As for Chaos Earth, it seems to be about as clear as mud. Originally it was a similar world that suffered a slightly less severe Coming of the Rifts, then it rolled the clock back to being during the aftermath of the Coming of the Rifts, and actual reading of it still seems to be a less severe Coming of the Rifts than Rifts Earth suffered, even down to the timing of New Years/Planetary Alignment/Nukes being spaced more than what has been stated in Rifts materials.

NEMA is established as part of Rifts' history, but that does not prevent Chaos Earth from being a separate dimension any more than the presence of Cyberworks, KLS, Lazlo, Mutants in Orbit, etc does for Heroes Unlimited, Beyond the Supernatural, or After the Bomb.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Same as above, does it actually directly state that? or is it just assumed due to the NEMA stuff and what not? Because there's BUNCHES of people that swear up and down BTS is pre-rifts earth.

Well, Kevin put out a full article in Rifter #2 on the influences of other dimensions on Rifts Earth's pre-Rifts history. Which basically boiled down to neighboring realities having leaked into and cross-contaminated the history of the world, but that the other settings were still separate dimensions. Still left some confusion as to whether Victor was the BTS Victor displaced dimensionally or the Rifts version of Victor displaced in time.

Personally, to me it raised the question to me whether any 'history' of Rifts Earth was truly its own before the Coming of the Rifts. Particularly when combined with the fact that time travelers are unable to cross that point either.

As for Chaos Earth, it seems to be about as clear as mud. Originally it was a similar world that suffered a slightly less severe Coming of the Rifts, then it rolled the clock back to being during the aftermath of the Coming of the Rifts, and actual reading of it still seems to be a less severe Coming of the Rifts than Rifts Earth suffered, even down to the timing of New Years/Planetary Alignment/Nukes being spaced more than what has been stated in Rifts materials.

NEMA is established as part of Rifts' history, but that does not prevent Chaos Earth from being a separate dimension any more than the presence of Cyberworks, KLS, Lazlo, Mutants in Orbit, etc does for Heroes Unlimited, Beyond the Supernatural, or After the Bomb.

Yeah, this is --exactly-- what I (( Vaaaaguely)) remembered. lol That there was enough differences that there was question as to if it were. Thanks Armorlord. At least I'm not crazy. lol even if I'm wrong.

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

The original Chaos Earth setting was meant to be an intermediary Cataclysm or something like that, IIRC.

By the time it was actually turned into a series of Rifter articles that then became a trio of books, it had been changed to an official prequel to Rifts Earth. Open the first Chaos Earth book and read the bottom sentence on the page.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Chaos Earth can be a stand alone, but it serves as a direct historical precursor to Rifts Earth. The NEMA organization, a military alliance between the US, Canada, and Mexico, was responsible for Glitter Boys being all over the place and also employed the first SAMAS power armors, though they used Glitter Boy laser-resistant chromium armor; one of the books states that none are known to survive into the present of Rifts Earth because they were more likely to be damaged and were more difficult to repair[the volcanic ash was hell on their flight systems]. NEMA played a significant part in the survival or human civilization in North America.

There's also a reference, in the RMB I think, of the mythical Nemans, benevolent giants who fought to save humanity during the Cataclysm, demonstrating that some memory of NEMA remains in the common collective consciousness, even if they've been relegated to faerie tales. The CS, NGR, NG, and several other powers almost assuredly have files detailing the organizations existence.

The descendents of NEMA forces, who call themselves the Republicans, are detailed in the Revised SB1.

Yeah but there's also Heroes Unlimited Earth, and After the bomb earth, and Beyond the Supernatural Earth (( That many people think was 'pre rifts earth, though not so much me. If it were it'd have gotten more support. lol)) Ect. There's many alternate earths. Are we 'sure" Chaos Earth was pre- RIFTS Earth? Or is it another earth where the rifts came? I could be wrong but I thought there was some question as to that.

No question. Chaos Earth absolutely is Rifts Earth of the past.

~ Josh

Same as above, does it actually directly state that? or is it just assumed due to the NEMA stuff and what not? Because there's BUNCHES of people that swear up and down BTS is pre-rifts earth.

No, this has been directly stated. Chaos Earth is the canonical past of Rifts Earth (page 7 of Chaos Earth, 374 of RUE and elsewhere). BTS, Heroes and the rest are in essence parallel worlds that have some resemblance to the past of Rifts Earth (I forget what book this is in EDIT: Armorlord covered this above).

~ Josh

[Pepsi Jedi]

Chaos Earth can be a stand alone, but it serves as a direct historical precursor to Rifts Earth. The NEMA organization, a military alliance between the US, Canada, and Mexico, was responsible for Glitter Boys being all over the place and also employed the first SAMAS power armors, though they used Glitter Boy laser-resistant chromium armor; one of the books states that none are known to survive into the present of Rifts Earth because they were more likely to be damaged and were more difficult to repair[the volcanic ash was hell on their flight systems]. NEMA played a significant part in the survival or human civilization in North America.

There's also a reference, in the RMB I think, of the mythical Nemans, benevolent giants who fought to save humanity during the Cataclysm, demonstrating that some memory of NEMA remains in the common collective consciousness, even if they've been relegated to faerie tales. The CS, NGR, NG, and several other powers almost assuredly have files detailing the organizations existence.

The descendents of NEMA forces, who call themselves the Republicans, are detailed in the Revised SB1.

Yeah but there's also Heroes Unlimited Earth, and After the bomb earth, and Beyond the Supernatural Earth (( That many people think was 'pre rifts earth, though not so much me. If it were it'd have gotten more support. lol)) Ect. There's many alternate earths. Are we 'sure" Chaos Earth was pre- RIFTS Earth? Or is it another earth where the rifts came? I could be wrong but I thought there was some question as to that.

No question. Chaos Earth absolutely is Rifts Earth of the past.

~ Josh

Same as above, does it actually directly state that? or is it just assumed due to the NEMA stuff and what not? Because there's BUNCHES of people that swear up and down BTS is pre-rifts earth.

No, this has been directly stated. Chaos Earth is the canonical past of Rifts Earth (page 7 of Chaos Earth, 374 of RUE and elsewhere). BTS, Heroes and the rest are in essence parallel worlds that have some resemblance to the past of Rifts Earth (I forget what book this is in EDIT: Armorlord covered this above).

~ Josh

Cool, but what about the rest of stuff Armorlord said? About how it was one way, then rolled back and another, but not quite fully.... How's that stuff factor in?

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Cool, but what about the rest of stuff Armorlord said? About how it was one way, then rolled back and another, but not quite fully.... How's that stuff factor in?

That all got changed before it was published. IIRC, Chaos Earth was originally intended to be a setting where the Cataclysm wasn't quite severe enough to bring civilization to its knees; it was Apocalypse Lite. None of that carried over into the finished work, though, and Armorlord's interpretation of the Coming of the Rifts being less severe than what Rifts Earth experienced is just that, an interpretation that doesn't hold up to what's been printed.

Almost everyone is dead, government is gone, demons pour forth from the rifts 24/7, volcanic ash buries cities, super volcanoes erupt, etc. It's awfully hard to see where the Cataclysm was supposed to be less intense than what was supposed to happen on Rifts Earth.