The Glow

[Tearstone]

Ok, if we look like glow-worms to Zeds, ie our light radiates outward through windows and cracks, and we glow like an image on a thermal/infrared camera that makes a lot of light, right?

The question I have is part scenario. You have a survivor camp, late at night. No fires. All cooking was done before sundown. Survivor camp is located in a valley, so there's no direct line of sight to the surrounding countryside. During the night a front has blown in bringing low cloud cover. The kinds of clouds you experience in winter, where the glow of city lights will turn the sky orange. Even though there's no direct line of sight, would the glow of PPE and life energy still show up to the zombies, reflecting off of the bottom of the clouds?

Note: The survivor camp does have sentries armed with night vision and dogs that will give the alert if zombies are smelled. They have mobile blinds for their sentries, so no worries about being spotted early. Radio contact to the camp is checked in at five minute intervals.

Which brings up another question while I was typing on this. If our life energy is radiant, and shines through cracks and holes... does that mean it can/does reflect off of things like mirrors, and reflective surfaces? Magical energy and mirrors have always had funny effects, so perhaps this is possible? If so, could this be used to our advantage tactically. Think about shining a reflection of PPE light onto the side of a building to lure zombies into a killzone, or letting them see the reflection of a person to lure them to a target zone.

Thoughts?

[azazel1024]

No, it wouldn't reflect off even low clouds. The description isn't 100% concrete, but I had the take away that it is direct line of sight only. You can be seen through cracks and holes, but only if you are in line of sight still. If you stand 2ft to the side of a window, a zombie is not going to see the glow. The glow doesn't actually light anything up. It would be like a light bulb that's shine ended at the surface of the bulb. really easy to see, but nothing actually gets illuminated.
-Matt

[Tearstone]

Perhaps, but I took it in a little different vein. If a person is sitting in the corner of a room, and you're standing outside the door, the light would shine on the floor like a lightbulb, and you could see the rays of light extending out under the door, least that's what I took away from the material.

If the light isn't all that radiant then I think it would be easier to hide. I also think it is radiant as thus because it has been stated that thin materials like a tarp will not hide the light, which I find a little funny because I've used tarps to block wind for campfires and had difficulty seeing the light of the campfire on the other side. (Got a tree branch in the eye once because I was looking for the fire more than watching where I was going.)

[strtkwr]

In Dark Spaces, it references that you can't just hide behind something, so I take it to mean it is not line of sight. In this situation, I don't think it would reflect off a cloud, but the zombies should be able to see the glow in the distance, like when you come upon a city in the dead of night. You can see the glow just over the horizon.

[Noon]

Not that a million people haven't asked questions like these before, but this is like asking what sort of shoes the bhudda or zues wears.

Are you just trying to see if other people do imagine the same way you do, or could? If so, I don't particularly imagine it that way, but if I had a GM who imagined it that way, I wouldn't scream or have a hissy fit. I could go with that flow. I'm not exactly of a highlander position about it "There can be only one...way of imagining it!".

You can see the glow just over the horizon

Fiddley thing there is that you can see that because the cities lights reflect off dust particles, moisture particles in the air, etc.

[azazel1024]

Perhaps, but I took it in a little different vein. If a person is sitting in the corner of a room, and you're standing outside the door, the light would shine on the floor like a lightbulb, and you could see the rays of light extending out under the door, least that's what I took away from the material.

If the light isn't all that radiant then I think it would be easier to hide. I also think it is radiant as thus because it has been stated that thin materials like a tarp will not hide the light, which I find a little funny because I've used tarps to block wind for campfires and had difficulty seeing the light of the campfire on the other side. (Got a tree branch in the eye once because I was looking for the fire more than watching where I was going.)

Yeah I took that to be because the light is so bright that it will shine through anything that isn't basically light proof, not that it'll reflect off things, and or actually light them up.

To me if it is real radiant light, than it is pretty much impossible to be outside at night, period, anywhere. Walk through an alley and a zombie three blocks up is going to see the alley all lit up at night even if it can't directly see you. I know the point is that you should be fairly visible at night to zombies, but if you emmit radiant light, and the book describes people as being pretty bright, and you can be seen from a couple of miles away, than you are going to light up everything around you like a 100w light bulb.

The only way I see any chance of survival at night is if it is non-radiant light that is being emmited, so that it has to be a direct line of sight for a zombie to see you. Yeah, you can hunker down every time it starts getting dark out, but again even during the day time walking around indoors would make you oh so evident to any zombie in the building, or at least within a few rooms, even in non-boarded up buildings. No attempting to hide in the bushes in the woods in day light, as the bushes are going to be kind of lit up.

Either the glow needs to be much weaker, more like a nightlight (like a 3w incandescent), or else it needs to be either completely or almost completely non-radiant light. Dimmer, like a nightlight, would also mean that zombies probably aren't going to be able to see you at night at really long distances. A few hundred yards sure, but not a couple of miles. Think of how "dim" your whole body would need to be to emmit the light of a 3w nightlight (again pretty visible at night, but not at longer distances). Where as as bright as you'd be to emmit the light of a 100w light bulb, you probably would be visible at a couple of miles if you had sharp eyes and it was a resonably dark night.
-Matt

[Tearstone]

From the description of the book, you show up as a white blob to them, but the "glow" does not cast any actual light onto anything surrounding it. There is an illustration in "Dark Places" that shows this effect perfectly.

Are you talking about page 7 with the two people climbing over the chainlink fence?

[azazel1024]

From the description of the book, you show up as a white blob to them, but the "glow" does not cast any actual light onto anything surrounding it. There is an illustration in "Dark Places" that shows this effect perfectly.

This is also pretty much how I read what was written (and actually I think it is relatively clear that the glow doesn't actually cast any light).
-Matt

[Gamer]

The main book describes it quite clearly actually, then naturally screws it up later.
While humans and other living creatures are seen as radiant beings, that light is limited to the size and shape of their body. They do not give off light that fills a room like a light bulb.
pg.25 first paragraph.
You could have all the survivors left on the planet in one spot in the darkest of night with total cloud cover and no zombie is going to see any PPE "glow" reflecting off any clouds.

To me what makes this Glow aura thing all messed up is the added note at the end of the paragraph that is very badly worded.
Note: A humans aura cannot be contained, hidden by clothing, armor or any other known means.
Earlier the paragraph says you can conceal yourself with debris or an over turned table and not be seen by zombies then that convoluted note says otherwise.
I can shoot through an overturned table with a piddly 9mm with no problem what so ever, yet it won't penetrate many body armors on the market.
A zombie can't see through an over turned table but can see right through body armor any and all body armor, doesn't matter if it's a kevlar vest or full plate mail it's "armor".

[azazel1024]

We could just assume that the "glow" is really an aura that extends several inches from the body of a person. So clothing isn't going to mask it, unless going bedouin style, and maybe not then.

That would be my assumption. If you think about it, and aura extending out a couple of inches from your body would be beyond most clothing. That would still basically be the size of your body, but not containable by clothing/armor/etc. Hidding behind something though, and you'd be invisible.

It is described as an aura a couple of places, and in most descriptions of auras in the various books, they are not form fitting to the person emminating an aura, they extend out loosely from the person a matter of inches to a foot or so (such as in see aura spells). Also classical paranormal auras are things that extend out from a person in a diffuse way.

So unless clothing would "damp down" and aura, it wouldn't be within the boudries of one, so clothing wouldn't hide it, but being behind a physical object would. Of course now you get in to the nitty gritty, would being back up to that overturned table hide it? Or would your aura extend through the table? If you were 6 inches from the table would you be far enough so that your aura didn't extend through?

I think it is simple enough to say it is a non-radiative glow from your aura that extends a couple of inches from the skin and cannot be covered by clothing, but solid objects will cover the glow from the aura and leave it at that.
-Matt

[Armorlord]

Yeah, not 'line of sight', just plain 'line'. They get close enough the zombies'll see through the ground itself.

[Tearstone]

Yeah, not 'line of sight', just plain 'line'. They get close enough the zombies'll see through the ground itself.

If you're referring to some of the Dark Places material, that's more their Sense Life ability than actual sight. Remember, you get within 25 feet of an active zombie and they will sense you, regardless.

[Incriptus]

I know its our instinct to overly scrutinize these things but I say that there is a difference between "Wearing" something and "Being Behind" something. On a metaphysical level wearing something creates a psychic link between yourself and the object. It doesn't matter how much of your skin it covers your essence still envelopes it. If you are not wearing something, it has no such psychic resonence and so the glow doesn't shine through.

or . . . if you perfer . . . The game doesn't want you to be invisible just because youre wearing your burka so suck it up and hide for real!

[azazel1024]

I know its our instinct to overly scrutinize these things but I say that there is a difference between "Wearing" something and "Being Behind" something. On a metaphysical level wearing something creates a psychic link between yourself and the object. It doesn't matter how much of your skin it covers your essence still envelopes it. If you are not wearing something, it has no such psychic resonence and so the glow doesn't shine through.

or . . . if you perfer . . . The game doesn't want you to be invisible just because youre wearing your burka so suck it up and hide for real!

+1
-Matt

[Tadrith]

Rifter 44 has a nice article on the Aura which was what I've always taken to be what the Zombies see. In the article it talks about how the size of your aura is no more about a 1/2 inch from your skin increasing by that much every level. what your wearing counts as you for purposes of where your aura extends though due to the psychic link Incriptus was talking about, that's why telekinesis can't pull just your shirt off.

[flatline]

Rifter 44 has a nice article on the Aura which was what I've always taken to be what the Zombies see. In the article it talks about how the size of your aura is no more about a 1/2 inch from your skin increasing by that much every level. what your wearing counts as you for purposes of where your aura extends though due to the psychic link Incriptus was talking about, that's why telekinesis can't pull just your shirt off.

Wait, where does it say that telekinesis can't effect your shirt while you're wearing it?

--flatline

[wick]

Zombie breaks into a room in which you are hiding behind a sofa. It looks around the room and is frustrated because although it can sense a human in the room it can't see one. Then the zombie raises it nose sampling the air...someone dropped a man-which behind that Sofa.

Really, they made the zombie's ability to sense ridiculous. And the rules for it's senses aren't real clear cut and reading two sections of the book just confuses things more. They definitely did not want anyone sneaking around zombies. And then they tell stories of people running around cities perhaps helping people or what not, but after reading about the zombie senses I only get the image of anyone in a city besieged by a horde of zombies and when they try to escape the horde just follows them.

Do they need to make perception checks. Say you have a maxed out prowl but are traveling at night can you sneak past their aura sight or even smell? How do you determine if the humans are afraid to give the zombie a bonus to it's chance to smell?

[MurderCityDisciple]

I haven't delved too deeply into this aspect of Dead Reign.
I just ran one pick up game thusfar.
But taking inspiration from The Walking Dead episode 'Guts', do you think covering oneself in long dead guts, blood and gore would dampen the glow and allow folks to sneak by zombie or even through a horde?

[wick]

Even if they only relied on their sense of smell, each zombie would have to roll a check and even if you penalized the scent ability harshly for the players covering their scent with zombie guts (say to 5% which is a huge penalty) some will smell the humans in a large enough group of zombies. With the ability sense life force or see the glow definitely not.

[Tadrith]

Rifter 44 has a nice article on the Aura which was what I've always taken to be what the Zombies see. In the article it talks about how the size of your aura is no more about a 1/2 inch from your skin increasing by that much every level. what your wearing counts as you for purposes of where your aura extends though due to the psychic link Incriptus was talking about, that's why telekinesis can't pull just your shirt off.

Wait, where does it say that telekinesis can't effect your shirt while you're wearing it?

--flatline

Rifter 44 Pg 46. The article was written by Mark Hall. When discussing auras in general it says "As one's aura extends in most cases far enough to cover ones clothing and armor, these receive your saving throw as long as it is with in your aura. Most weapons however extend beyond the auras protection and so are vulnerable to attack."
A little farther down the same page when discussing TK in specific it says "Telekinesis when attempting to interact with a person or object is actually psychic force acting upon that person or objects aura, in cases where two auras overlap (such as an item on the person of a human being) the stronger aura shields the weaker aura; if the weaker is completely contained it's invulnerable to manipulation."

As it states on page 47 when discussing the amount of protection the aura affords you, the aura extends a "thumbs width" (which I would say in general is close to 3/4 an inch or 2cm for metric) and then another fingersbreadth (1/2 inch or 1.5cm) per level after that even at first level your basic clothing should be completely contained by your aura. By second level for sure.

[Tadrith]

I had a player that relly liked to abuse TK and Super TK so I bought this rifter just for that article.

[Graymouser65]

I also realize that we can analyze this to death, but it seems to me that all these passages in the rules are trying to do is convey how the zombies perceive humans. The zombies see humans not the way we see things, because they are seeing the PPE. That PPE does not actually physically glow like a flashlight or something in terms of "putting off light" that can then reflect off something else. It seems pretty clear to me that they do not want us to conclude that this is the case. It seems to me not to be visual in the sense that we think about vision given our eyes, because the zombie does not even need physical eyes to see the light of life. . To me that suggests that this "seeing" by the zombies has absolutely nothing to do with what we think of as seeing or vision or even light as we think of it. Therefore no, there is no light produced in terms of it reflecting off anything. The book is just trying to give an account of the zombies perceptual abilities.

Humans "light up" to the zombies because humans have higher PPE relative to the surrounding environment. Unlike our vision which is based on light reflecting off an object, the zombies are perceiving energy (PPE) which is produced by the living human's body (rather than the PPE reflecting off the human's body, the PPE is emanating from it). This seems like very different perceptual processes to me.

But obviously this is just one interpretation of a somewhat unclear couple of paragraphs.

Matt

[cornholioprime]

From the description of the book, you show up as a white blob to them, but the "glow" does not cast any actual light onto anything surrounding it. There is an illustration in "Dark Places" that shows this effect perfectly.

What he said.

The Aura that the zombies see is supernatural in nature; it doesn't directly correspond to the physics of real light (which would light up a room).

[cornholioprime]

The main book describes it quite clearly actually, then naturally screws it up later.
While humans and other living creatures are seen as radiant beings, that light is limited to the size and shape of their body. They do not give off light that fills a room like a light bulb.
pg.25 first paragraph.
You could have all the survivors left on the planet in one spot in the darkest of night with total cloud cover and no zombie is going to see any PPE "glow" reflecting off any clouds.

To me what makes this Glow aura thing all messed up is the added note at the end of the paragraph that is very badly worded.
Note: A humans aura cannot be contained, hidden by clothing, armor or any other known means.
Earlier the paragraph says you can conceal yourself with debris or an over turned table and not be seen by zombies then that convoluted note says otherwise.
I can shoot through an overturned table with a piddly 9mm with no problem what so ever, yet it won't penetrate many body armors on the market.
A zombie can't see through an over turned table but can see right through body armor any and all body armor, doesn't matter if it's a kevlar vest or full plate mail it's "armor".

You're confusing the "living light" being given off, with the aura that Zombies can sense no matter what you are hiding behind, above, or under, as long as you are in their sensing range.

Think of it this way, by analogy: Even though the Mage can use magic to render himself physically invisible to all sensors, his supernatural aura can still be sensed by the Dog Boy.

[cornholioprime]

quick question since normally most characters in Dead Reign have between 2-10 ppe what would a character with 22 look like? (true atlantean shepard of the damned).

Also have another player whos playing a shepard of the damned who turned into a half living the description of the class say that zombies ignore the character but she has 4 ppe do the zeds see her glow or since half of it was eaten has it dimmed to nothing?

A]] There is no known difference in glow between a low-PPE target and a high one, only an undefined 'special' quality to human PPE that makes Zombies go after them first no matter how many other non-human PPE sources are around.

B]] Half-Living, for reasons not yet revealed, apparently don't radiate that glow at all to Zombies, and therefore aren't attacked by Zeds for any reason short of being issued orders to, or the Half-Living initiating an attack against them.

[Tor]

Zombies need a direct line of sight to see the glow, PPE doesn't bounce off stuff like light does.

[Pepsi Jedi]

To be honest, I feel the 'glow' is a hold over from when Dead Reign was much more mystically oriented as to the 'origin' of the Zombies, and not 'generalized, YOU choose what made the zombies' game that it ended up as. Not saying one is better than the other, but you can find the information on the original work up for it and it was mystical in nature. Thus the PPE sensing and what not that is still present.

As such, when we play, we play it more like "The Walking Dead" with Palladium rules and some of the alt zombies and stuff. A thinker here or there. Sprinter's being about 10% of the zombie population etc.

That being said, in our personal games, we don't use the glow. The glow is a magical or 'supernatural' if you choose sense. Our zombies just arn't magically created. They don't have super magical senses (As pointed out, they don't need eyes to 'see' it).

If we were to use it, which is unlikely, god those things don't need any more help, it would be as pointed out above. A heat signature type thing. The human and maybe an 'inch' or two around them. And as others said it's not an actual light source that radiates and illuminates. It's a 'supernatural sense' that's being described via mundane wordage. So the word 'glow' or 'light' are being used to allow us pitiful humans to help visualize, but isn't 100% acccurate in description.

[Tor]

It's never been a generalized 'you choose', it's always been magical in nature. The glow is linked to how zombies feed on PPE and replicate through the PPE released at death rather than any kind of biological or scientific means.

PPE is how the death priests manage to control zombies and stuff. If you're going to take out the magic you may as well eliminate that faction.

They DO "see" the glow, it's just not a light-based sight. Light is not the only thing that can be seen in the Megaverse, nor eyes the only organs that allow sight.

[cornholioprime]

It's never been a generalized 'you choose', it's always been magical in nature. The glow is linked to how zombies feed on PPE and replicate through the PPE released at death rather than any kind of biological or scientific means.

PPE is how the death priests manage to control zombies and stuff. If you're going to take out the magic you may as well eliminate that faction.

They DO "see" the glow, it's just not a light-based sight. Light is not the only thing that can be seen in the Megaverse, nor eyes the only organs that allow sight.

D'accord!!

(Never really understood the 'need' to get rid of the Zombies' supernatural nature myself; and as I've said before in other Threads in this sub-forum, the more you TRY to remove the supernatural from the Undead, ironically you make them even MORE 'magical' because of all of the physical/physiological laws you're breaking.)

[Eashamahel]

"Zombies eat PPE which people have (but don't know about it) which doubles at the moment of death (which no one is aware of). Every person has PPE (but it doesn't do anything) which can be seen by zombies (which the humans will never know)."

Is this a fairly accurate representation of PPE/The Glow in Dead Reign? I admit I don't own the books, and have only read through them once or twice, so I would like to know.

[gaby]

What can block the Glow?

[cornholioprime]

"Zombies eat PPE which people have (but don't know about it) which doubles at the moment of death (which no one is aware of). Every person has PPE (but it doesn't do anything) which can be seen by zombies (which the humans will never know)."

Is this a fairly accurate representation of PPE/The Glow in Dead Reign? I admit I don't own the books, and have only read through them once or twice, so I would like to know.

You are entirely correct.

[cornholioprime]

What can block the Glow?

Physical barriers which COMPLETELY block the light -and to reiterate what has been said in other posts, The Glow doesn't conform to the rules of regular light, so even in the most pitch black setting, if a potential victim is hiding around a corner, the zombie won't see even the faintest hints of a glow.

Not even if the potential victim is in a pitch-black house of mirrors and his physical reflection is 'showing' in all of the mirrors.

[Eashamahel]

Ah, so there has been a storyline excuse for characters/people in universe to know about the glow at least, though no one in universe should know about 'PPE' or the name of 'Potential Psychic Energy', and it shouldn't be used by anyone in-universe (since it was coined by Victor Lazlo). I wonder if it was put into a later book (ie not the rulebook) as part of the plan from the original, or if the authors just realized the oversight and thought that was a good way to get the information in.

[Traska]

IMO, the best way to handle the glow is this: Imagine being covered head to toe in phosphorescent paint.

[Tor]

in Dark Places Brad Ashley was told by a Mock Zombie about the glow before putting a bullet through its head.(page 6 paragraph six) and he put it in the Reapers survival guide so any human that has a copy knows of this.

Who is the real monster here?

[Vrykolas2k]

The Glow is about the only thing in the game I don't like... the zombies are already pretty buff, not being able to hide from them effectively is a touch much.

[azazel1024]

Part of why I unbuff them.

First it makes no "zombie lore" sense (if there is such a thing as zombie lore) and second it makes games neigh unwinable with the rare exceptions of you stay far, far away from anything resembling human civilzation.

I won't want my play groups to be able to run through New York in broad daylight and cut massive swathes of zombies down with a ball point pen and come out unscathed, but at the same time, I'd like them to have a resonable chance, even if they step in the hornet's nest, to still be able to make it.

In my experience, even with creative role playing, if a player group is "caught unprepared" (as in they haven't set traps or tilted the situation in their favor knowing what was coming), most of the time they are pretty well doomed if they go up against more than about 50% more zombies than there are PC/NPC in the group unless they run.

A game where all you do is run from zombies gets kind of boring.

Drop the AR crap. Make it a straight called shot to the head. Allow Compendium of Modern weapons 4x damage bonus for head shots. Call it a day; means a 9mm has about a 25% chance of killing a zombie if you make the shot, which if you've got no skill is about a 50% chance of a head shot (-5 called shot penalty). So in one shot, you have some chance of killing a zombie with a 9mm. With two shots, you've got close to a 50% chance of killing one and with three shots odds are good you've killed a zombie. So if you've got a 15 round mag, you have decent odds of being able to take down 3-5 zombies, taking roughly one minute to do it (I am assuming 3-4 attacks per melee).

You on your lonesome have a handful of zombies break out of the backroom of a department store and come shambling after you, you might have a resonable chance to taking them all down.

You still won't want to tangle with hoardes of them. You VERY MUCH do not want to draw unwanted attention to yourself. That includes running around at night (or make sure you do a good bit of hiding if you will) or making a bunch of noise.

[Vrykolas2k]

See, that's the point... Night should be the BEST time to move around.
This Glow idea... ya... not so crazy about it.

[sHaka]

Even without the glow, night time is still not a good time to be moving around. Zeds have pretty good - if short ranged- night vision, are attracted to moving lights (torches, headlights etc) which they will see from afar and still have their life and scent sensing abilities.

[JTwig]

Perhaps, but I took it in a little different vein. If a person is sitting in the corner of a room, and you're standing outside the door, the light would shine on the floor like a lightbulb, and you could see the rays of light extending out under the door, least that's what I took away from the material.

If the light isn't all that radiant then I think it would be easier to hide. I also think it is radiant as thus because it has been stated that thin materials like a tarp will not hide the light, which I find a little funny because I've used tarps to block wind for campfires and had difficulty seeing the light of the campfire on the other side. (Got a tree branch in the eye once because I was looking for the fire more than watching where I was going.)

To me it sound like the sight of the alien in Predator movie; people don't actually radiate but they standout in light cover. Note: I know the zombies don't see thermo energy.

[Vrykolas2k]

Even without the glow, night time is still not a good time to be moving around. Zeds have pretty good - if short ranged- night vision, are attracted to moving lights (torches, headlights etc) which they will see from afar and still have their life and scent sensing abilities.

Which is why you don't use torches, headlights and so on... unless you're night-blind.

[sHaka]

Even without the glow, night time is still not a good time to be moving around. Zeds have pretty good - if short ranged- night vision, are attracted to moving lights (torches, headlights etc) which they will see from afar and still have their life and scent sensing abilities.

Which is why you don't use torches, headlights and so on... unless you're night-blind.

Or just hunker-down at night, and move around during the day where there's lots of free light

[flatline]

Even without the glow, night time is still not a good time to be moving around. Zeds have pretty good - if short ranged- night vision, are attracted to moving lights (torches, headlights etc) which they will see from afar and still have their life and scent sensing abilities.

Which is why you don't use torches, headlights and so on... unless you're night-blind.

Or just hunker-down at night, and move around during the day where there's lots of free light

There is wisdom in this suggestion. If there's no artificial lighting (street lights, etc), it gets REALLY DARK at night. Find a secure place to bed down and stay out of sight.

--flatline

[azazel1024]

Very much so. Unless you are using nightvision, night is a pretty dark time most places.

Sure, if you have a clear sky, a full moon and open terrain it is very, very easy to see. If you have a cloudy night in the forest, you can be lucky to see 20ft with young eyes, let alone in the rain.

A large swath of most countries it is easier to see at night a lot of the time because there is skyglow that can easily raise the light levels by 2-20x over a moonless night. Even with no clouds reflecting the light down. This is still damned dark, but it is a lot brighter than a moon less night far in to the wilderness, or what you'd experience during a zombie apocalypse when most of the lights in the world have gone out.

The moral of the story is, at least with DR zombies, even ignoring the "life glow", they have better vision than you do at night, unless you are using artificial enhancement. You don't want to go wandering around and blunder right in to one in the middle of the night.

Even if they have the SAME vision as you do, you can still easily blunder in to one in the middle of the night, or make a lot more noise walking around since you have a much harder time seeing than in the day time.

Also keep in mind, even with all the zombies around, things like bears and wolves are likely to make a come back within just a few years. Also mountain lions, actual lions and tigers escaped from zoos, etc. A number of those have no problems hunting you at night time.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Only most of those don't hunt humans. Bears generally don't. I mean if you walk up and kick them or their cub in the face or meander close to them and refuse to leave they might but they don't normally hunt humans. There's been a number of bear attacks this year, but mostly when humans go out of their way to get close to or interact with, or 'be' purposefully in the area with bears. Can it happen? yeah. Is it something you really need to worry about walking through the woods? Not so much. Wolves don't hunt humans at all. There's never been a wolf on human fatality in the US with only like.. 4 attacks 'ever' and those being by either deformed/diseased creatures or one's kept in captivity as pets. Mountain lions will jump a human, a child or woman or slight man, if they're very hungry and prey is scarce, but they're not exactly thick on the ground, and with most of the humans gone, their natural prey will explode even faster than predator numbers will.

Tigers..... could be a problem. They will up and hunt man if they feel like it. While it's not common it happens. Read a stat recently that said there's more Tigers in private ownership in Texas than there are in the wild in India (Or china.. it was one of them but to be honest I forget)

Tigers WOULD get lose in a zombie rise, and they could reproduce across NA. They'd likely do very very well with out human predation too.

Lions.. not the problem one would think they'd be. Reproduction in the US would be slow to ramp up and surviving humans are likely going to shoot wild lions on sight, Just in case, they're not naturally reclusive like many of the others on the list.

So.. if you carry a big can of bear mace with you, chances are all you're going to have to worry about would be Tigers, and even that's not going to be 'common'.

It'll be enough that you gotta keep an eye out but even then it's going to take years if not a decade for them to really get going.

[Tor]

Ignoring the discussion of wolves, you guys have me thinking of Wizard of Oz now.

[Trent]

Its an energy but not a light . Zombies see it the same way some birds see and follow waves and streams of electromagnetic energy . Or snakes "see" heat . They dont "see" it with their eyes and neither do the zombies . It was stated in the core rules that they see it even with the lack of physical eyes and even then with limited range . So cloud reflection would probably not be enough to register . Even if it was a light you cant see that low a quality or that few dim lights off clouds . Just a thought .

[Tirisilex]

Zombies can see you even though they have no eyes.. (Page 25) The glow can be seen in the daytime just as much as in the night time. Yes it's an aura that extends about in inch from your body.. So clothes and armor isn't going to work. It's a bit confusing.. They can see without eyes but see in the dark better??

I do not like the fact they can sense you in so many ways.. They can easily find you by scent in a home.. There is practically no way to hide from a zombie.

[Tor]

I'm pretty sure I recall reading the glow is more visible at night time. Zombies may not need eyes to see, but there's apparently something about real light that interferes with seeing PPE-light.

Which begs us to wonder: wouldn't an eyeless zombie have an advantage in being able to see us in day like it was night?

Why not just pluck out their eyes then? The only reason to avoid it would be Mock Zombies or Pretty Zombies.

Or I suppose Thinkers might be able to interact with their environment better if they can see it... being able to pick up guns and stuff for example. Guns would not have PPE so you couldn't pick them up and use them without your normal eyesight.

Now picturing Death Cultists intentionally going around blinding Slouchers and tying rags around their heads calling them 'walking justice' or something to hunt people in day.