Changelings

[Colonel Wolfe]

I think that a changling baby born unto another race (human, dwarf, elf, etc) would be risky because the baby would be born what it is- if it is a changling then it would be born changling and would probly die at hands of the doctor/midwife and/or the mother or father.

if the Child has it shape Shifting ability... it could well Asssume the Shape of the Race of its Mother... or the "Father" could replace the midwife, and steal the child away... if the Changling was gonna take the time to seduce a Female to Infest... It try to make sure he was around when the Child was gonna be born/expeled.

How could it assume the shape of the race of its mother immediatly upon birth? I do not think that it would relize anything right at instance. Look how long it takes human babies to speak a real language, should take some time to control their shifting abilities.

Human Babies is the Key word... How long dose it take a Dragon to move around after hatching? if a Changling Falls under the "Creature of Magic" group, then they can ignore various "rules" of life humnas and other Creatures do. Also Shape Shifting is a Natrual power, as Much as breathing is to a Human... Spoken Language is not a Natrual ability of humans, Shape Shifting is one the Changlings posess, and comparing how long it takes a Human to learn to walk is not applicable either... Humans are born weaker then mopst crestures on the planet, a Baby horse is Walking within minutes of being birthed.... Wanting to apply a Real-Wolrd restriction fo a Make-believe monster is non-sense.

a Changlings normal power allows thm to alter their Size by as much as 50% in either Direction fomr their normal Height of 7 ft. the Majority of this is Assuming Changling have the ability to use humans as a Inncubator. if they have Developed this ability, the system would have to ensure a higher then 1% Birth survival rate.
I honstly believe they just split in half every 50 or so years, the Essance fo being Asexual.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Really, it sounds like you're not even reading the posts.

no one Reads posts anymore, they just skim the topic, looking for somethign to disagree with. then post their own opion on how it works, and how Wrong you are for thinking any diffrently.

[Marcethus]

Really, it sounds like you're not even reading the posts.

no one Reads posts anymore, they just skim the topic, looking for somethign to disagree with. then post their own opion on how it works, and how Wrong you are for thinking any diffrently.

Unfortunately Wolfe it seems alot of people tend to do that

[Goliath Strongarm]

Yes some of the rules contradict...this is not one of them.

Well, I dont have the time to read ALL the posts on this thread, so forgive me if someone brought this up already-

In High Seas (maybe it's old ones, but pretty sure High Seas), one of the shops is run by a HALF-ORC. Hence, there IS book precident for half breeds. Of course, there is the rule that says it cant happen, but hey. Gotta love good proofing.

In other news- I too remember the one turns male, one female, they do the dance of LOVE, then the female one carries the baby to term. I think it was Island it's in.

As for the two 'kings' that were males- that was the shape they CHOSE to hold. But they could be whatever they wanted. However, being KINGS kind of limits a being's options. That's one of those "hold this disguise until death" things.

--
GS

6 more days, and a wakeup, then I'm outta this sandbox

[Entiago]

I think that a changling baby born unto another race (human, dwarf, elf, etc) would be risky because the baby would be born what it is- if it is a changling then it would be born changling and would probly die at hands of the doctor/midwife and/or the mother or father.

if the Child has it shape Shifting ability... it could well Asssume the Shape of the Race of its Mother... or the "Father" could replace the midwife, and steal the child away... if the Changling was gonna take the time to seduce a Female to Infest... It try to make sure he was around when the Child was gonna be born/expeled.

How could it assume the shape of the race of its mother immediatly upon birth? I do not think that it would relize anything right at instance. Look how long it takes human babies to speak a real language, should take some time to control their shifting abilities.

Human Babies is the Key word... How long dose it take a Dragon to move around after hatching? if a Changling Falls under the "Creature of Magic" group, then they can ignore various "rules" of life humnas and other Creatures do. Also Shape Shifting is a Natrual power, as Much as breathing is to a Human... Spoken Language is not a Natrual ability of humans, Shape Shifting is one the Changlings posess, and comparing how long it takes a Human to learn to walk is not applicable either... Humans are born weaker then mopst crestures on the planet, a Baby horse is Walking within minutes of being birthed.... Wanting to apply a Real-Wolrd restriction fo a Make-believe monster is non-sense.

How true (with the Dragons). Hatchlings can instantly speak and read Elf/Dragonese, knows basic math, and has a knowledge of its magic and its natural powers (D&G pg 16 under #19).

However look at the note in second colum, top of the page (same book).

Although it is unusual, dragons of two different species can enjoy a sexual relationship but cannot breed and produce offspring; i.e. the union of an Ice Dragon and a Thumder Lizard cannot produce children

So by this theory, Changlings cannot reproduce with other races other than their own-if comparing the changling babies to that of a dragon hatchling.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Although it is unusual, dragons of two different species can enjoy a sexual relationship but cannot breed and produce offspring; i.e. the union of an Ice Dragon and a Thumder Lizard cannot produce children

So by this theory, Changlings cannot reproduce with other races other than their own-if comparing the changling babies to that of a dragon hatchling.

You using an Flawed anology... my Anology is Dragon hatchling are born with full use of their powers and a decent level of skill... its possible other Creatures of Magic's offspring are born equally endowed.

Dragons Mate and Lay Eggs... the whole concept behind Eggs is the mother has unfertlized eggs in her, and the Father gets busy.. and Fertilizes the Eggs... if Humans/Elves/Orcs are Egglaying species... I'd highly doubt a Changling could use the body to reproduce.
and that Rule is there to keep up the No-Half Breed Rule... Disalowing an Fire and Ice Dragon to make a "Steam" Dragon...

a Chagling using a Parasitic Reproduction technique isnt making a half-anything, its using a host body to inncubate a copy of its self. It could possibly do this with another Changling, but being pregnent might make Shape-shifting hard for a period of time... maybe even its self, as it can assume both sexes at the same time.... but its Reproduction isnt about Sex, or Even combining Genetic material, its Asexual, if KevSim ment something other then Asexual, he could have used another word.

I'm simply Trying to State a possible Way to have both the Changling Legend & the no half-breeds rule exist in the same setting.

This would fall under a House Rule.... one that i'd use to Explain to my PC's when a Woman has a Changling baby (keeping the Legend alive), but they cant play a Half-Elf or Half-Dragon.

[Janus]

Just so you all know I have read every post that was posted. I usually tend to do so, unless otherwise stated.

Now then, yes it appeared that I said things accusing people of saying in their arguements, that was not my intent. I was merely defining arguable points and arguing them ( I talk with myself as well leave me alone ).

Anyway, the main focus of this topic was whether or not a changling and a human could, if they wanted, do the deed and have an offspring. Based on everything people have posted it is safe to say that no they could not reproduce with one another. Given that Kev used asexual, it could be stated maybe the reproduce by parasites (the face hugger thing was something I came up with on my own I watched AVP recently). Also I said they may reproduce by eggs, I thought it rather clever of me. Then yes, they could "reproduce". This falls into one of those tricky things of role playing where in the players are invariably going to knock boots and what are the consequences. Truthfully I have never seen this in any game other than a house rule.

I have a problem still with the changling baby knowing what appearance to take (unless maybe either the mother or child is psionic then there is a bond) until they are born and get their first glimpse, the DNA strand would in some way suggest perhaps it shares the mother's code allowing for a sort of half-breed. Of course this really does not mean anything as babies when they are first born do not look human (I believe Bill Cosby said it best "oh look you've had a lizard").

In all things this is a house rule call. my main and only point (except for the slight half-orc contradiction, drat that GS) is that there are no half-breed races allowed. BTW to Colonel Wolfe, steam dragon, I like that. If one had read some of my earlier posts one would see that even I made house rules for half-breeds. I am not trying to attack anyone, but merely point out for KISS sake that by following the no half-breed rule (the half-orc does not count, darnit) then humans with humans and changeling with changeling.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I have a problem still with the changling baby knowing what appearance to take (unless maybe either the mother or child is psionic then there is a bond) until they are born and get their first glimpse, the DNA strand would in some way suggest perhaps it shares the mother's code allowing for a sort of half-breed. Of course this really does not mean anything as babies when they are first born do not look human (I believe Bill Cosby said it best "oh look you've had a lizard").

Other then a Possible DNA thing... The Spawn could have a form of Genetic memory. The Form the "Father" is basically told to the Spawn and it assums a form of the Hosts Race. if this style of reproduction was possible, the Chageling would have worked out all the little problems with it...

In all things this is a house rule call. my main and only point (except for the slight half-orc contradiction, drat that GS) is that there are no half-breed races allowed. BTW to Colonel Wolfe, steam dragon, I like that. If one had read some of my earlier posts one would see that even I made house rules for half-breeds. I am not trying to attack anyone, but merely point out for KISS sake that by following the no half-breed rule (the half-orc does not count, darnit) then humans with humans and changeling with changeling.

I Follow the No-Halfers Rule... except in D&D where Halfers are the Rule, not an Exception. The Legend of the Changling Stealing away babies could be a plot Device... the Parasitic Reproduction is a possible way to Resolve the Legend without creating a swarm of problems with players who want to play Half-Wolfen/Half-Orc/Half-Robot/Half-Vampire monsters..... I've played with to many Players like the Guys in KODT.... If I Miss roll damage with t he wrong dice.. all weapons of that type use that damage... "an Orc Dagger dose D6? I'm gonna buy tons of orc daggers"

The Steam Dragon wasnt exactly my invention.. it was a Creature from the Rifts.... had the powers of both parents... could assume a Steam form...
the Old Dragon I was cruel enough to use was the Albino Red Dragon....
Village: a White Dragon has been laugeing out town...
Player: good thing i got thias Sword of Fire, I'll make short work of the Dragon, consider him dead...
Later...
Player: Whys the White Dragon breathing Fire...
GM: I did tell you the houses wee burnt down... and this Lair wasnt exactly cold.

[Janus]

I have a problem still with the changling baby knowing what appearance to take (unless maybe either the mother or child is psionic then there is a bond) until they are born and get their first glimpse, the DNA strand would in some way suggest perhaps it shares the mother's code allowing for a sort of half-breed. Of course this really does not mean anything as babies when they are first born do not look human (I believe Bill Cosby said it best "oh look you've had a lizard").

Other then a Possible DNA thing... The Spawn could have a form of Genetic memory. The Form the "Father" is basically told to the Spawn and it assums a form of the Hosts Race. if this style of reproduction was possible, the Chageling would have worked out all the little problems with it...

In all things this is a house rule call. my main and only point (except for the slight half-orc contradiction, drat that GS) is that there are no half-breed races allowed. BTW to Colonel Wolfe, steam dragon, I like that. If one had read some of my earlier posts one would see that even I made house rules for half-breeds. I am not trying to attack anyone, but merely point out for KISS sake that by following the no half-breed rule (the half-orc does not count, darnit) then humans with humans and changeling with changeling.

I Follow the No-Halfers Rule... except in D&D where Halfers are the Rule, not an Exception. The Legend of the Changling Stealing away babies could be a plot Device... the Parasitic Reproduction is a possible way to Resolve the Legend without creating a swarm of problems with players who want to play Half-Wolfen/Half-Orc/Half-Robot/Half-Vampire monsters..... I've played with to many Players like the Guys in KODT.... If I Miss roll damage with t he wrong dice.. all weapons of that type use that damage... "an Orc Dagger dose D6? I'm gonna buy tons of orc daggers"

The Steam Dragon wasnt exactly my invention.. it was a Creature from the Rifts.... had the powers of both parents... could assume a Steam form...
the Old Dragon I was cruel enough to use was the Albino Red Dragon....
Village: a White Dragon has been laugeing out town...
Player: good thing i got thias Sword of Fire, I'll make short work of the Dragon, consider him dead...
Later...
Player: Whys the White Dragon breathing Fire...
GM: I did tell you the houses wee burnt down... and this Lair wasnt exactly cold.

Genetic memory, is a good way to look at it.

I like to make up cool half races, but only if a really cool backstory is involved for role-playing purposes.

Albino Red, you are mean and cruel and I like it.

[Colonel Wolfe]

the Old Dragon I was cruel enough to use was the Albino Red Dragon....
Village: a White Dragon has been laugeing out town...
Player: good thing i got thias Sword of Fire, I'll make short work of the Dragon, consider him dead...
Later...
Player: Whys the White Dragon breathing Fire...
GM: I did tell you the houses wee burnt down... and this Lair wasnt exactly cold.

Albino Red, you are mean and cruel and I like it.

I gave them Every Clue about the Real Color of the Dragon... only one player was close... he thought it was a Red Ploymorphed into a White... but then someoen else mentioned the limits of polymorph.. and that Red Dragons dont have that innate ability... Meta-gamming never helps..

[Entiago]

I have a problem still with the changling baby knowing what appearance to take (unless maybe either the mother or child is psionic then there is a bond) until they are born and get their first glimpse, the DNA strand would in some way suggest perhaps it shares the mother's code allowing for a sort of half-breed. Of course this really does not mean anything as babies when they are first born do not look human (I believe Bill Cosby said it best "oh look you've had a lizard").

Well actually there is a bond already established in the child before it is born IRL. So going by this theroy, the "parisitic" child changlinng would probably take the form of its mother, no matter her race.

In all things this is a house rule call. my main and only point (except for the slight half-orc contradiction, drat that GS) is that there are no half-breed races allowed. BTW to Colonel Wolfe, steam dragon, I like that. If one had read some of my earlier posts one would see that even I made house rules for half-breeds. I am not trying to attack anyone, but merely point out for KISS sake that by following the no half-breed rule (the half-orc does not count, darnit) then humans with humans and changeling with changeling.

the Half-Orcs are suposidly a race that is to be more defined in the OK books (whenever they come out). But I think for siplistic way of dealing with this is to say "A changling to any other race (other than its own) is sterile."

[Janus]

I have a problem still with the changling baby knowing what appearance to take (unless maybe either the mother or child is psionic then there is a bond) until they are born and get their first glimpse, the DNA strand would in some way suggest perhaps it shares the mother's code allowing for a sort of half-breed. Of course this really does not mean anything as babies when they are first born do not look human (I believe Bill Cosby said it best "oh look you've had a lizard").

Well actually there is a bond already established in the child before it is born IRL. So going by this theroy, the "parisitic" child changlinng would probably take the form of its mother, no matter her race.

In all things this is a house rule call. my main and only point (except for the slight half-orc contradiction, drat that GS) is that there are no half-breed races allowed. BTW to Colonel Wolfe, steam dragon, I like that. If one had read some of my earlier posts one would see that even I made house rules for half-breeds. I am not trying to attack anyone, but merely point out for KISS sake that by following the no half-breed rule (the half-orc does not count, darnit) then humans with humans and changeling with changeling.

the Half-Orcs are suposidly a race that is to be more defined in the OK books (whenever they come out). But I think for siplistic way of dealing with this is to say "A changling to any other race (other than its own) is sterile."

I will give you the bond as being the baby would know its mother by scent and sound of voiec and heartbeat, but not on appearance. Again, I think that can be overcome by a baby looking a bit off anyway as well as some a jaundiced (or any other color for that matter) and have pointed heads and what not.

If we go by a changeling "born" (going on parasitic here) to any other race being sterile then it could be very well why they would not engage in this practice on their own. They have to preserve their species and that cannot be accomplished with sterile children.

Yeah Colonel I have been there with giving all info and the players not paying attention to the details and saying "but you said ..." and "I thought..."

[Colonel Wolfe]

I will give you the bond as being the baby would know its mother by scent and sound of voiec and heartbeat, but not on appearance. Again, I think that can be overcome by a baby looking a bit off anyway as well as some a jaundiced (or any other color for that matter) and have pointed heads and what not.

the Parasitic off spring isnt a baby in a Traditional sense.. its a Bud/Spore from the Doner/"Father". if the "Father" was in a human form during implantation it may assume that form after it has gotten full sized, and releases the hormone to make the mother expel it.

If we go by a changeling "born" (going on parasitic here) to any other race being sterile then it could be very well why they would not engage in this practice on their own. They have to preserve their species and that cannot be accomplished with sterile children.

I think he's keeping with the Half-breed idea... if the Changling mates with another race.. it makes a "Mule"... basically the changlings are Genetically Close enough to everyrace (it can mate with) to make a Changling stock mule... Like a Horse and Donkey...
There are tons of ways to explain how the Legend became true... anything from Halfer-Mules, a host situation... or Changling simply eat children and put their own in the place of another... Having a Child Cramps the Style of every good Adventurer... the same can be true for a Ugly Changliong...

Also most people on Palladium think the Race has been extinct for generations.... and prolly would have no clue what they look like in their native form....

Yeah Colonel I have been there with giving all info and the players not paying attention to the details and saying "but you said ..." and "I thought..."[/quote]

[Janus]

I think I am not understanding what your response was, but I have that sometimes. Do you mean that the baby would look like the mother because the father knows what the human (or host) looks like and that is imprinted via asexual cloning (that would be how i think asexual would go anyways) or do you mean that when it is born since people do not know the natural form would likely think it was a human offspring? At any rate, it could very well be a non-issue at that point anyway as "dad" may have told her the truth, not saying it always will be the case but may be in the described relationship.

Sterility is the only issue that I can think of that would keep them from openly practicing that method. I do believe what you pointed out is exactly what he meant. Just a thought though.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I think I am not understanding what your response was, but I have that sometimes. Do you mean that the baby would look like the mother because the father knows what the human (or host) looks like and that is imprinted via asexual cloning (that would be how i think asexual would go anyways) or do you mean that when it is born since people do not know the natural form would likely think it was a human offspring? At any rate, it could very well be a non-issue at that point anyway as "dad" may have told her the truth, not saying it always will be the case but may be in the described relationship.

the bolded is what i believe... but the Second part is one reason changling would be hidden among the people and not know it... The "father" could replace one of many people around the host of the off spring to ensure its survival... I'd say this type of Reproduction would be a last resort fo reproduce... a Changling would rather implant another changling or its self... btu sometime it would be unreasonable for this to happen... so using a new host would be acceptible...
the Ability to Rapidly expand and compress the Mass of the Chagling could mean the Gestation period in the host could number as low as a few months... if the changling was gonna try this, he'd spend sometmie looking for the right host (a Prostitute or a Barren woman would be perfect... ), finding people to mimic to ensure it was around when the Spawn was birthed.

[Janus]

I think I am not understanding what your response was, but I have that sometimes. Do you mean that the baby would look like the mother because the father knows what the human (or host) looks like and that is imprinted via asexual cloning (that would be how i think asexual would go anyways) or do you mean that when it is born since people do not know the natural form would likely think it was a human offspring? At any rate, it could very well be a non-issue at that point anyway as "dad" may have told her the truth, not saying it always will be the case but may be in the described relationship.

the bolded is what i believe... but the Second part is one reason changling would be hidden among the people and not know it... The "father" could replace one of many people around the host of the off spring to ensure its survival... I'd say this type of Reproduction would be a last resort fo reproduce... a Changling would rather implant another changling or its self... btu sometime it would be unreasonable for this to happen... so using a new host would be acceptible...
the Ability to Rapidly expand and compress the Mass of the Chagling could mean the Gestation period in the host could number as low as a few months... if the changling was gonna try this, he'd spend sometmie looking for the right host (a Prostitute or a Barren woman would be perfect... ), finding people to mimic to ensure it was around when the Spawn was birthed.

Very devious indeed! Well, it would certainly be fun to role play this situation out. Good point on the barren woman. That would certainly help with the whole hey wy am I still cycling when I am pregnant type deal. Also it would offset any horror she may feel towards a changeling baby, she is happy to have been able to have a baby. This parasitic feeding on the host without a stray DNA strand would be the most acceptable, I only say this as a stray non changeling DNA may prevent the shape shift ability or limited shape shift ability

[Killer Cyborg]

This parasitic feeding on the host without a stray DNA strand would be the most acceptable, I only say this as a stray non changeling DNA may prevent the shape shift ability or limited shape shift ability

I kind of picture it as being no big deal; just a part of how changlings are supposed to operate.

[Janus]

This parasitic feeding on the host without a stray DNA strand would be the most acceptable, I only say this as a stray non changeling DNA may prevent the shape shift ability or limited shape shift ability

I kind of picture it as being no big deal; just a part of how changlings are supposed to operate.

And it may very be, but I could also see it as a way to explain why they would not interbreed along with the sterility. Just a thing really. Like you say may have no real impact and that the DNA that is there is just resultant "food" from the host.

[Borast]

by the rules, he could not have children with her anyway. No half races except ogres and humans, with the resultant offspring being an orge for all intents and purposes. They can do the tango, but show nothing for their pains.

By the rules anyway. Do with it however you would like.

Well, the rules don't get into changling reproduction.
If you remember the actual legends of changelings that seem to inspire the Palladium race, what would happen is that a mother would walk into the crib room and find their baby gone, to be replaced by a changling baby (elf, goblin, etc.)

This legend could work with Palladium Changlings in the following way:

Changlings actually breed well with other races, but the resulting child is always a changling, but it is born looking like whatever race the mother is (or whatever race the mother appears to be if she's a changling as well).
So the legendary changling scenario comes into play after the changling child first learns to assume its true form and is discovered by the non-changling parent.
This is actually the basis for a lot of the hatred for Changlings; the belief that they steal human babies and replace them with their own children.
Another take is that if the human parent ever learns of the changling parent's nature, they might assume that the changling parent sold, traded, killed, or gave away the human child and was attempting to slip a changling child in its place.

Actually...the changelings in question in the myths are FEY. The Seelie or Useelie court would steal a child and raise it to adulthood. In order to prevent the parents from discovering the change, a faerie would undergo a metamorphosis and be placed in the stolen infant's bower. Sometimes the change was found-out, some times not. But, one way or the tother, I can't remember the outcome.

However, as it has been a while, I believe that a baby changeling looks like a baby changeling, and can not alter it's form for several years.

[Borast]

Simple, no?

Yes, but is that the official answer?

Also, how do they determine who gets to carry the child to term? Is it some religious rite? Flipping a coin? Based on the gender they usually adopt? Determined by whoever has the most financial resources?

Since it was PUBLISHED in an actual PB source book...I would have to assume yes.