d12 and d8 need some time too! Robot/vehicle weapon ranges

[ghost2020]

I was just curious why the d8 and d12 never get used for robot and vehicle level weapons?

It would seem to make some level of sense, not to mention, those dice get lonely and want some table time too.


Robot lasers and cannons doing 1d8x10 or 1d12x10, or 2d8x10, etc just for scale and sheer power.

I know that some would think it would be a bit 'munchkin' or something, but i would think that the robots/pa/vehicle weapons would be inherently more powerful than hand held weapons. This isn't always the case.

[kaid]

Hehe I was always kinda curious about the lack of the d8's d10s and d12s in rifts but I think it is just a stylistic choice on their part to use mostly d4's d6's and d20s.

[ghost2020]

Statistics aside, i still think the d8, d12 and d10 should get some time for weapon damages.

And if palladium was concerned with bell curves i would be seriously surprised.

[Shark_Force]

try bringing splicers into your game... lots of d8 and d12 action going on there

[Dog_O_War]

Hehe I was always kinda curious about the lack of the d8's d10s and d12s in rifts but I think it is just a stylistic choice on their part to use mostly d4's d6's and d20s.

Perhaps its has to do with the mean (statistical) damage and the probability of dice throws.

For example:

If you got a rifle that does 2D6 MDC, it would appear on first glance that the prabability spread for damage would flatly be between 2 and 12. This is actually not true, there is indeed a spread of between 2-12 however more dots on each dice add up to a result of 7 (see:http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/probability/calcdice.htm) than any other outcome, this of course means 7 and you are actually 1.7 times more likely to roll a 7 than a 6 or an 8. These are mathematical probabilities and they don't often measure up (haha) in the real world.

[For the purposes of accuracy] your math is wrong. You're only about 20% more likely to get a 7 over a 6 or an 8, not 70% (the actual number hovering somewhere between 20% and 25%).

***
As for the OP:
I am actually of the opinion that vehicular weapons should have a more reliable average, which means lower die-types in higher numbers, while infantry weapons and the like have a wider range (higher die-types).

All because the number '1' exists. Comparing 1d6 to 1d12, the d12 can literally double the total of that d6. But it can also achieve the exact same low numbers. That doesn't sound very 'vehicular-level weapon' in my opinion. So I would do it in the inverse; I would change the infantry laser to something like 2d12 (for a 4d6 weapon), but keep the vehicular weapon to say, 2d4x10 instead of 1d8x10. This keeps powerful weapons looking powerful and it allows players to use all the dice; something I too am a fan of.

As an off-note; does palladium even have anything (and I mean anything; a stat, a gun, even a chart) that uses the d12?

[kaid]

try bringing splicers into your game... lots of d8 and d12 action going on there

Hehe yes and that actually is one reason I really did like a lot of their stuff in splicers. Gives a bit more differences than everything having the same couple damage types. Having some 1d8 vs 2d4 options is nice they are pretty similar quality wise but the 2d4 will overall do a bit better average damage so ways of giving small advantages without really throwing things out of wack.

[Tor]

Any time you see 2D4 or 2D6, I will not consider you a villain if you want to substitute your d8 or d12 for them.

Also applies to subbing your d20 for 2d10, which I have seen someplace.

[CyCo]

Any time you see 2D4 or 2D6, I will not consider you a villain if you want to substitute your d8 or d12 for them.

Also applies to subbing your d20 for 2d10, which I have seen someplace.

You sound like Kev. He seems to think that 2d6 is the same as a 1d12. Except you can't roll a one and the probability curve is not the same.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I remember in one book, he listed a weapon damage at 6D6(or 1D4 x10). so sometimes I just roll what i feel is right for the circumstances...

Kevin and Jason Marker give the D8 some love in the Robotech RPG...

[The Beast]

As an off-note; does palladium even have anything (and I mean anything; a stat, a gun, even a chart) that uses the d12?

Maybe in Splicers...

[Sureshot]

Having read splicers I don't know why they never used other damage dice. It would make some of the current damage values less wonky imo. I can see a huge canon on a tank say doing 1d10 or 1d12 x 10 instead of say the usual undperpowered 1d6x 10. As well t allwos one to use other dice that are not used as well.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I was just curious why the d8 and d12 never get used for robot and vehicle level weapons?

It would seem to make some level of sense, not to mention, those dice get lonely and want some table time too.


Robot lasers and cannons doing 1d8x10 or 1d12x10, or 2d8x10, etc just for scale and sheer power.

I know that some would think it would be a bit 'munchkin' or something, but i would think that the robots/pa/vehicle weapons would be inherently more powerful than hand held weapons. This isn't always the case.

The Simple answer is that PB is making things "standardized" so the players only need d20's and d6's to play the game.

And D8's and D12's are more variability. The only smallarm I can think of off hand that uses a D12 for damage is a plasma rifle from HU.

When I was in an IRL group the geeks there decided that D20's should be replaced by D12's to give more weight to the bonuses given by H2H's and MAFs.

[kaid]

I was looking at some stuff in merc ops last night and noticed that some of the wilks guns in there do use d8s for damage. One of the pistols can do a double blast for 2d8 damage. I had forgotten there were a few weapons like this in rifts that use d8s so they are out there just pretty rare.

[MADMANMIKE]

Carmen likes the odd dice out... He wrote Splicers and contributed quite a bit to Merc Ops..

[Grand Paladin]

I recall that the classic Robotech RPG had some Destroid weapons systems use a variety of dice for weapon damage. The RDF Excaliber had it's Particle Beam Cannon arms do 5D10+20 (or so) MD, while one of the TZ gun cluster weapons used a D8 for it's MD rating.

[Shorty Lickens]

2D4 has a higher average and higher minimum roll.
Which for large weapons or pulse weapons would make sense. I'd take 3d6 over 1d20 for a gun.

300d6 gets you an average of 1080 whereas 100d20 gets an average of 1000.

Actually thats no much difference. Never mind.

But obviously 2d6 is way better than 1d12.

I dunno, guess it doesnt matter too much in the game. I've seen plenty of things that are more like 20+1d4 which ensures little variance but maybe thats not as fun or exciting. 2d12 would have wider range and the possibility of a weak hit, but that could make combat somewhat desperate and random.

[Dog_O_War]

But obviously 2d6 is way better than 1d12.

I wouldn't say that it's strictly better.

1d12 has a higher chance of rolling 11 and 12 than 2d6 does.

In fact, (using the math 4shadow posted above) you have the same odds of rolling a 10, but you have a 2.77% higher chance of rolling an 11 and a 5.55% higher chance of rolling a 12; total, you have a 24.99% chance.

To roll 10, 11, or 12 on 2d6 though you only have a 16.67% chance. That's nearly 10% below that of the d12.

[Alrik Vas]

I think there was a plasma or particle beam or maybe just a laser rifle in the old TMNT book that did like 5d12 or something. Was a long time ago so i don't remember exactly.

[Shark_Force]

But obviously 2d6 is way better than 1d12.

I wouldn't say that it's strictly better.

1d12 has a higher chance of rolling 11 and 12 than 2d6 does.

In fact, (using the math 4shadow posted above) you have the same odds of rolling a 10, but you have a 2.77% higher chance of rolling an 11 and a 5.55% higher chance of rolling a 12; total, you have a 24.99% chance.

To roll 10, 11, or 12 on 2d6 though you only have a 16.67% chance. That's nearly 10% below that of the d12.

sure, but the trade-off is that you're also more likely to roll a 2 or a 3 with a d12, and a 1 is not even possible on 2d6.

it's not a large difference, but it is on average better (not by a lot, mind you - 2d6 is average 7 vs 1d12 average of 6.5). but yes, your chance for any given shot to do more damage (or less damage) increases when you use 1d12 instead of 2d6. i could see some people preferring the d12 option just because they like hitting those high numbers a bit more often, and don't mind the trade-off of the low options (and of course, in some specific scenarios, it will be better purely because of the higher chance of a one-shot kill... if you're facing robots with exactly 120 MDC, then the 1d12 option will one-shot them 1/12 of the time while the 2d6 option will do so only 1/36 of the time, for example. if they have 100 MDC it is 1/4 for the d12 vs 1/6 for the 2d6 option, so still better there as well)