Rifts Books in development

[DBX]

copy/paste from latest weekly update

Rifts® Antarctica
Rifts® Black Market
Rifts® China Three
Rifts® Deep South
Rifts® New Navy™
Rifts® Northern Gun™ – may be a series of books.
Rifts® Sovietski™
Rifts® Titan Industries™
Rifts® Vampires Sourcebook™

[gaby]

looks Good.

[Dustin Fireblade]

There's always books "in development." This isn't the first time they announced a book on Northern Gun IIRC.

[keir451]

copy/paste from latest weekly update

Rifts® Antarctica
Rifts® Black Market
Rifts® China Three
Rifts® Deep South
Rifts® New Navy™
Rifts® Northern Gun™ – may be a series of books.
Rifts® Sovietski™
Rifts® Titan Industries™
Rifts® Vampires Sourcebook™

Ok, let's see; Antartica: Yawn, Black Market: Double Yawn, China Three: , Deep South: , New Navy: , Nothern Gun: About Damn time, we've only needed it for what 20 +yrs?, Sovietski: , Titan Industries: Why? All I need to know about Titan Industries fits into a tiny paper sack and is in a Rifter that I already have, Vampire Sourcebook: Worst waste of paper ever.
Next list had better include floor plans for Chi-town and the CS fortress cities as well as them finally crushing the Pecos Bandits (I'm all for a bit of banditry now and again, but the CS easily has the manpower and firepower to bring these guys to heel). Oh, yeah we need EXACT locations for Chi-town and the other CS fortress cities (lattitude and longitude would be nice) too.

[Braden Campbell]

Chi-Town sits on the ruins of Colfax, Illinois, by the shores of the Mackinaw River.
lat and long included in the wikipedia sidebar

The City of Iron ws built where Sudbury, Ontario now lies (and I can tell you from personal experience, it's in the middle of nowhere).
again, long and lat are in the wiki sidebar

[The Galactus Kid]

Next list had better include floor plans for Chi-town and the CS fortress cities...Oh, yeah we need EXACT locations for Chi-town and the other CS fortress cities (lattitude and longitude would be nice) too.

While everyone is entitled to their opinions about books in the queue, comments like this I've never understood.

While it would be nice to have at least a couple of the levels mapped, I think that a full map really limits what a GM can do in the particular area.

Also, why do we need the lattitude and longitude of the cities? I just don't see why that matters...

[Bood Samel]

I'll most likely get all the NA related books. These all sound neat to me.

[gaby]

Do you think Titan industries will not only show All New stuff but things Archie3 control in sercet like a Mercenary company and other pawns?

[The Galactus Kid]

But do we really need a third book for China? Antarctica will be a complete waste of paper...

1) Yes. We do need a third book for China. I've seen a lot of the work and had an opporunity to talk with the writier working from ERIC WUJCIK'S notees and material and it will blow people away. It was announced at the time China 2 was and we've had a cover floating out there forever.
2) I'm amazed at how many people are panning Antarctica when the only information that they have is "There is a manuscript in". People aren't judging a book by its cover. They are judging a book by its pre-publication development announcment. I can understand being upset that the book may come out before others, but to say it will be a waste of paper is just dumbfounding. I'm going to be speaking with the author a whole bunch in the next few weeks, and I'm sure that it will be an AMAZING book.

[Dunia]

Next list had better include floor plans for Chi-town and the CS fortress cities...Oh, yeah we need EXACT locations for Chi-town and the other CS fortress cities (lattitude and longitude would be nice) too.

While everyone is entitled to their opinions about books in the queue, comments like this I've never understood.

While it would be nice to have at least a couple of the levels mapped, I think that a full map really limits what a GM can do in the particular area.

Also, why do we need the lattitude and longitude of the cities? I just don't see why that matters...

In Sweden, we had an 'after the bomb' RPG called New Mutant (or Mutant 3), in which a city called New Berlin was very much the focus point (in the same level as Chi Town) and the game company made a box just about the city with 3 books, and a map. It was very popular. I think the fans bought about 20.000 copies of that, which might not be that much in your eyes, but considering that sweden in that time had 8 milion citizens , so 20.000 copies of an RPG book was quite alot. I think that and another book, which depicted a fantasy city (also with 2-3 books + map) from the same game company for their Fantasy RPG sold almost as well

But PB seems to want to tease their players with books for years and never really give them out. And with all the promised books, I guess that such a box, would not see light until 2050

[strtkwr]

While it would be nice to have at least a couple of the levels mapped, I think that a full map really limits what a GM can do in the particular area.

I don't understand this statement. Isn't the idea behind the game that I take what I want, and discard the rest? So how would having a complete map limit my options, since I can take what I like from it and discard the rest? Heck, it might even throw my players for a loop if I did that. And having a complete map may help GM's who either do not have the time, effort, or imagination to map out a multi-story city. After all, if my players decide, in the middle of an adventure, to head into Chi-Town, having a pre-made map would be a godsend, rather than having to make it up on the fly.

[Sureshot]

Rifts® Antarctica Has to be really good. No long lost secret society with high tech no one has heard of. Been done too many times.

Rifts® Black Market Might be interesting.

Rifts® China Three
Rifts® Sovietski™

Why should this book be released before Chi-town or Lazlo. What is it Kevin and his fear of developing North America. Most campapigns imo are in NA so why not focus on that area first. Probably sell better too

Rifts® Deep South Might be interesting
Rifts® New Navy™Might be Interesting

Rifts® Northern Gun™ – may be a series of books. I rather one big mega sourcebook. Not 5-10 different books.

Rifts® Titan Industries™ North America is undeveloped yet Triax has not one but two books. Again what is the fear on Kevins part for releasing book on the big players on North America. How many times does it need to be repeated gives us more books for NA as most campaigns will be locared there.

[Sureshot]

1) Yes. We do need a third book for China. I've seen a lot of the work and had an opporunity to talk with the writier working from ERIC WUJCIK'S notees and material and it will blow people away. It was announced at the time China 2 was and we've had a cover floating out there forever.

Imo then you are in a minority. Even if the material will blow us away. Many campaigns are not set in China. Once again it's not so much the subject or the content. That it was given priority over something fans have been asking for such as Lazlo, Chi-Town. I have yet to see anyone on the boards mention having a game set in china.

2) I'm amazed at how many people are panning Antarctica when the only information that they have is "There is a manuscript in". People aren't judging a book by its cover. They are judging a book by its pre-publication development announcment. I can understand being upset that the book may come out before others, but to say it will be a waste of paper is just dumbfounding. I'm going to be speaking with the author a whole bunch in the next few weeks, and I'm sure that it will be an AMAZING book.

I think the book will now always be tainted. It can be the best written book and the author the greatest guy in the world. Yet Antartical will always be asociated with PB putting out a book most of the fanbase did not want or even ask for. Remember we are asking for Lazlo and Chi-Town we get Antartica well it's not going to sit well with some of us. If the list remains the same and does not change then their is absolutly no reason for Lazlo or Chi-Town not to be given priority as the next to be released Rifts books. If the next secret project for Rifts is Greenland then the company is just asking for trouble. And this time around "There is a manuscript in" will just not cut it. I also ask that people who work for PB stop assuming that we hate the upcoming tiles for the content. I'ts the timing. I repeat the timing of what is being released. If I ask for Lazlo, Chi-Town and you instead plan to release Rifts New Zealand or Rifts Mad Max the Tolkien warrior why should I be content and not voice my displeasure over it.

[Sureshot]

I actually had a game in China and I have used it in a few other games as well, but I don't see a need for a 3rd book. Not saying anything against it, I'll look at it when it comes out and get it if it's good but it's not something I've been wanting.

I have been waiting for Deep South and I'm excited it's back on the table, I just wonder about the other book that was supposed to go with it Delta Blues IIRC.

I am looking forward to Sovietski, Black Market i think could be interesting and I can't wait for something on Northern Guns. The rest will be a wait and see what it's like before buying it.

I stand corrected. Don't get me wrong Rifts is my favorite of the PB rpg lines and will more than likely buy everything for it. That being said the way the proritize release for the Rifts lines to me makes no sense.

[Balabanto]

copy/paste from latest weekly update

Rifts® Antarctica
Rifts® Black Market
Rifts® China Three
Rifts® Deep South
Rifts® New Navy™
Rifts® Northern Gun™ – may be a series of books.
Rifts® Sovietski™
Rifts® Titan Industries™
Rifts® Vampires Sourcebook™

Ok, let's see; Antartica: Yawn, Black Market: Double Yawn, China Three: , Deep South: , New Navy: , Nothern Gun: About Damn time, we've only needed it for what 20 +yrs?, Sovietski: , Titan Industries: Why? All I need to know about Titan Industries fits into a tiny paper sack and is in a Rifter that I already have, Vampire Sourcebook: Worst waste of paper ever.
Next list had better include floor plans for Chi-town and the CS fortress cities as well as them finally crushing the Pecos Bandits (I'm all for a bit of banditry now and again, but the CS easily has the manpower and firepower to bring these guys to heel). Oh, yeah we need EXACT locations for Chi-town and the other CS fortress cities (lattitude and longitude would be nice) too.

If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Most of these books are written by freelancers, and I really wish you'd not diss Erick Wujick's final work with that beating head against the wall smiley. I support the company by buying multiple copies of these things. While some of them may be yawners to you, others may find them valuble or exciting. Gaming supplements are a crapshoot. I know. I write some of them. From now on, when you say this stuff, either submit what you've done to Palladium, or forever hold your peace. Then at least you're putting your money where your mouth is. If you want people to listen to you, you have to be nice to them. A change in your tone might be a good start.

Every single one of those gearhead books, Titan, Northern Gun, etc is guaranteed to sell big because all gamers want a certain amount of crunch with their fluff. Naruni Wave 2 still sells well. Australia? Not so much.

The thing you have to consider is that you are not necessarily the target audience for every product. My target audience for my products is the more intellectually advanced superhero gamer who is looking for a big tactical AND big roleplaying challenge, often simultaneously. But Palladium can't write supplements that way, because unlike Hero, as much as I love it, Rifts is not a niche market. I get awesome reviews from game designers and reviewers, but I don't sell a ton of copies. That's not why I do this. I do it to have a CV. The more you publish, the more work you get.


Michael Satran, Hero System Author under the Blackwyrm Label

Foxbat For President
War of Worldcraft
Unkindness
Pretty Hate Machines

King of the Mountain, coming soon.

Imaginary Friends. In development.

[Braden Campbell]

Balabanto is my new hero! I would sig the entire post above if I could.

[DhAkael]

Honestly; best way to praise or damn the line up is...by buying or NOT buying the product(s).

Simple as that.

I'll give Antartica a gander...IF it impresses the heck outta me, I'll buy it. If not? Won't care and it can collect dust on the shelves at the local hoby store until someone DOES purchase it.
Or not.

Ditto with the China line (though to be honest NONE of them have impressed me and so, I leave them to those who will appreciate 'em).
I will agree with Sureshot though; We've been waiting for ages on Lazlo AND the Chi-town books.
Nothing has come out.
Myself? *shrug* I've moved on.
My campiagn version of Lazlo is so far out from what COULD be written, I'd have to retcon almost 18 years worth of storyline.
...and since I have a distinct pathelogical hatred for anything neo-nazi (even in a fictional sci-fi setting); Chi-Town is a non-issue until it is time to rip down the CS once and for all. THAT event won't happen for real-world years to come though.

[dragonfett]

I apologize now to the hard working authors who are working on Antartica, but I am not holding my breath for anything to come out of that book to amaze me. Why, because it is so cold down there that it can barely sustain life, and not even human life. We have to ship supplies in down there for research teams to use while on assignment there. So what's so cool and amazing down there? There is a secret society of ice dwelling d-bee's/aliens down there? That is the only thing that would make sense, but I have already figured out the plot then. No sir, the only thing that would truly make my head turn and nod and want the book is if they include a full write up for the Aliens Alien, and the Predator. But because we all know PB's policy on that stuff without a license and there has been no chatter that I know of of PB getting any new licenses, those ideas have also been shot down. Sorry, just my personal opinion on Antartica.

Now the prospect of an NG sourcebook has me salivating. The Titan book I could do with out unless they make a couple more power armors that are just as awesome as the Flying Titan, or some new robot vehicle designs that don't integrate the Shemarrian gun into it. God I hated that robot vehicle from Merc Ops.

Deep South I am also looking forward to just to see what happens to South Louisiana (at least north of Lake Pontchatrain). I currently live in Covington, LA, which is just a few miles north of Lake Pontchatrain.

The Black Market also has me interested as well.

[Dunia]

Rifts® Antarctica: Might be interesting, but as people say: Too many secret kingdoms/oragnizations out there and too many filled with tech/monsters. I might even buy this book, should it be out of the ordinary line of books, with a nice story and lots of possibility for adventures.

Rifts® Black Market: Can be nice, I will ask the library to buy it so that I can read it.

Rifts® China Three: I disliked China 1 & 2 and was really disapointed in them, this 3rd part can not be much better
Rifts® Deep South: I have waited for this since I started play Rifts 2 years ago. One of my books said it was coming, but when it never showed up, I felt that it will probably never come, but if it comes I will probably think twice about buying it.

Rifts® New Navy™: Huh, what is this? Did they not have alot of the undersees book already?
Rifts® Northern Gun™ – may be a series of books.: Very interesting, more books like that, and only a series if the following books take up a new kingdom of NA. There is no need for more books about NG if it takes time away from Chi Town, Lazlo and rest of Coalition states
Rifts® Sovietski™: Huh, two books exist about Russia, do we need a third book?
Rifts® Titan Industries™: Would be nice if we got more about Archie, but please it is annoyingly bad to have more books telling us that he is invinclbe and so fantastic. I hope this books will show us that he has some flaws with something
Rifts® Vampires Sourcebook™: This feels as if KS just want to squeeze more money out of VK1 & VK1 R&R. Definatly not needed in my oppinion.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Instead give us what we have been asking for:
Rifts® Chi Town™
Rifts® Lazlo & New Lazlo™
Rifts® Coalition States Sourcebook™
Rifts® Whykin & Kingsdale™

and I would personally want to see:

Rifts® The Secret War™ - Republicans: their resources and adventure ideas, ec.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Rifts® Antarctica: Might be interesting, but as people say: Too many secret kingdoms/oragnizations out there and too many filled with tech/monsters. I might even buy this book, should it be out of the ordinary line of books, with a nice story and lots of possibility for adventures.

Rifts® Black Market: Can be nice, I will ask the library to buy it so that I can read it.

Rifts® China Three: I disliked China 1 & 2 and was really disapointed in them, this 3rd part can not be much better
Rifts® Deep South: I have waited for this since I started play Rifts 2 years ago. One of my books said it was coming, but when it never showed up, I felt that it will probably never come, but if it comes I will probably think twice about buying it.

Rifts® New Navy™: Huh, what is this? Did they not have alot of the undersees book already?
Rifts® Northern Gun™ – may be a series of books.: Very interesting, more books like that, and only a series if the following books take up a new kingdom of NA. There is no need for more books about NG if it takes time away from Chi Town, Lazlo and rest of Coalition states
Rifts® Sovietski™: Huh, two books exist about Russia, do we need a third book?
Rifts® Titan Industries™: Would be nice if we got more about Archie, but please it is annoyingly bad to have more books telling us that he is invinclbe and so fantastic. I hope this books will show us that he has some flaws with something
Rifts® Vampires Sourcebook™: This feels as if KS just want to squeeze more money out of VK1 & VK1 R&R. Definatly not needed in my oppinion.

Antarctica, China 3, Deep South and Northern Gun should all be "World Books" while everything else sounds like (and should be) a "Sourcebook." If that's the case, then they are just focusing on a particular area within already published World Books, hence the titles for New Navy (very underdeveloped), Sovietski (which didn't get a lot of press as the Russian Warlords).

I am curious to see how the Northern Gun book compares to our netbook we worked up a few years ago though.

[strtkwr]

copy/paste from latest weekly update

Rifts® Antarctica
Rifts® Black Market
Rifts® China Three
Rifts® Deep South
Rifts® New Navy™
Rifts® Northern Gun™ – may be a series of books.
Rifts® Sovietski™
Rifts® Titan Industries™
Rifts® Vampires Sourcebook™

Ok, let's see; Antartica: Yawn, Black Market: Double Yawn, China Three: , Deep South: , New Navy: , Nothern Gun: About Damn time, we've only needed it for what 20 +yrs?, Sovietski: , Titan Industries: Why? All I need to know about Titan Industries fits into a tiny paper sack and is in a Rifter that I already have, Vampire Sourcebook: Worst waste of paper ever.
Next list had better include floor plans for Chi-town and the CS fortress cities as well as them finally crushing the Pecos Bandits (I'm all for a bit of banditry now and again, but the CS easily has the manpower and firepower to bring these guys to heel). Oh, yeah we need EXACT locations for Chi-town and the other CS fortress cities (lattitude and longitude would be nice) too.

If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Most of these books are written by freelancers, and I really wish you'd not diss Erick Wujick's final work with that beating head against the wall smiley. I support the company by buying multiple copies of these things. While some of them may be yawners to you, others may find them valuble or exciting. Gaming supplements are a crapshoot. I know. I write some of them. From now on, when you say this stuff, either submit what you've done to Palladium, or forever hold your peace. Then at least you're putting your money where your mouth is. If you want people to listen to you, you have to be nice to them. A change in your tone might be a good start.

Every single one of those gearhead books, Titan, Northern Gun, etc is guaranteed to sell big because all gamers want a certain amount of crunch with their fluff. Naruni Wave 2 still sells well. Australia? Not so much.

The thing you have to consider is that you are not necessarily the target audience for every product. My target audience for my products is the more intellectually advanced superhero gamer who is looking for a big tactical AND big roleplaying challenge, often simultaneously. But Palladium can't write supplements that way, because unlike Hero, as much as I love it, Rifts is not a niche market. I get awesome reviews from game designers and reviewers, but I don't sell a ton of copies. That's not why I do this. I do it to have a CV. The more you publish, the more work you get.


Michael Satran, Hero System Author under the Blackwyrm Label

Foxbat For President
War of Worldcraft
Unkindness
Pretty Hate Machines

King of the Mountain, coming soon.

Imaginary Friends. In development.

OK, I have to take some exception to what you said above. So, you are saying, as a paying customer, I have no right to tell the company what I think of their products.....intersting. So, if I have a complaint about Microsoft or Apple products, I should shut up unless I program for a living? If I have a complaint about my food in a restaurant, I should shut up about it unless I cook for a living? If I have an issue with my cable service, I should not complain unless I work at a cable company? if you answered no to any of these questions, well, Palladium is no different just because you call us fans rather than customers.

Or how about, I tell the company what products I want, so they can then make a reasonable determination as to what they want to release. Should it be said in a more polite way? Sure. But saying "put up or shut up" is not the correct response here.

As for the writers, I don't think anyone is meaning to disrespect them, but they are producing a product for public consumption. This means bad feedback as well as good. Seems like it comes with the territory. It is not disrespect to say to don't like an authors work just because he passed away. Personally, I don't like the China books, and am not looking forward to China 3. I like his other works (like TMNT and N&SS), but China 1&2 did not do anything for me.

[DhAkael]

As for the writers, I don't think anyone is meaning to disrespect them, but they are producing a product for public consumption. This means bad feedback as well as good. Seems like it comes with the territory. It is not disrespect to say to don't like an authors work just because he passed away. Personally, I don't like the China books, and am not looking forward to China 3. I like his other works (like TMNT and N&SS), but China 1&2 did not do anything for me.

Thank you.

And yes, Kevin really SHOULD read his forums.

[taalismn]

As for the writers, I don't think anyone is meaning to disrespect them, but they are producing a product for public consumption. This means bad feedback as well as good. Seems like it comes with the territory. It is not disrespect to say to don't like an authors work just because he passed away. Personally, I don't like the China books, and am not looking forward to China 3. I like his other works (like TMNT and N&SS), but China 1&2 did not do anything for me.

Thank you.

And yes, Kevin really SHOULD read his forums.

ESPECIALLY in today's economy.

Though I DID enjoy the China books and WOULD like to see China 3 someday(as much as a memorial as anything else). But there are a few books I'd like to see first(fortunately Lemuria seems back on track).

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

I have been waiting for Deep South and I'm excited it's back on the table, I just wonder about the other book that was supposed to go with it Delta Blues IIRC.

Delta Blues is one of the Deep South books that Philpott and I penned (divided from one mammoth manuscript that was also called Delta Blues), along with Dark Woods and Voodoo.

I'm assuming "Deep South" is just an umbrella term for all three. Though I may be wrong.

~ Josh

[Blindscout]

I find myself excited for most of those on the list. Antarctica and China three are definitely on my wait and see what others think list. I like Erick's work (Amber was the first RPG I played), but I'm not playing in nor running anything that the China books are useful for at the moment and as far as Antarctica goes I will catch up on the back log of North America books I don't have yet first, unless it ends up being Super Spiffy and makes we want to start a whole new campaign.

[sHaka]

.... as well as them finally crushing the Pecos Bandits (I'm all for a bit of banditry now and again, but the CS easily has the manpower and firepower to bring these guys to heel).....

Have you been following real world events in Afghanistan?

As to the rest of your post, you're of course entitled to your opinion. Perhaps you could just express it in a more grown up fashion? Respect is two-way street.

[Balabanto]

copy/paste from latest weekly update

Rifts® Antarctica
Rifts® Black Market
Rifts® China Three
Rifts® Deep South
Rifts® New Navy™
Rifts® Northern Gun™ – may be a series of books.
Rifts® Sovietski™
Rifts® Titan Industries™
Rifts® Vampires Sourcebook™

Ok, let's see; Antartica: Yawn, Black Market: Double Yawn, China Three: , Deep South: , New Navy: , Nothern Gun: About Damn time, we've only needed it for what 20 +yrs?, Sovietski: , Titan Industries: Why? All I need to know about Titan Industries fits into a tiny paper sack and is in a Rifter that I already have, Vampire Sourcebook: Worst waste of paper ever.
Next list had better include floor plans for Chi-town and the CS fortress cities as well as them finally crushing the Pecos Bandits (I'm all for a bit of banditry now and again, but the CS easily has the manpower and firepower to bring these guys to heel). Oh, yeah we need EXACT locations for Chi-town and the other CS fortress cities (lattitude and longitude would be nice) too.

If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Most of these books are written by freelancers, and I really wish you'd not diss Erick Wujick's final work with that beating head against the wall smiley. I support the company by buying multiple copies of these things. While some of them may be yawners to you, others may find them valuble or exciting. Gaming supplements are a crapshoot. I know. I write some of them. From now on, when you say this stuff, either submit what you've done to Palladium, or forever hold your peace. Then at least you're putting your money where your mouth is. If you want people to listen to you, you have to be nice to them. A change in your tone might be a good start.

Every single one of those gearhead books, Titan, Northern Gun, etc is guaranteed to sell big because all gamers want a certain amount of crunch with their fluff. Naruni Wave 2 still sells well. Australia? Not so much.

The thing you have to consider is that you are not necessarily the target audience for every product. My target audience for my products is the more intellectually advanced superhero gamer who is looking for a big tactical AND big roleplaying challenge, often simultaneously. But Palladium can't write supplements that way, because unlike Hero, as much as I love it, Rifts is not a niche market. I get awesome reviews from game designers and reviewers, but I don't sell a ton of copies. That's not why I do this. I do it to have a CV. The more you publish, the more work you get.


Michael Satran, Hero System Author under the Blackwyrm Label

Foxbat For President
War of Worldcraft
Unkindness
Pretty Hate Machines

King of the Mountain, coming soon.

Imaginary Friends. In development.

OK, I have to take some exception to what you said above. So, you are saying, as a paying customer, I have no right to tell the company what I think of their products.....intersting. So, if I have a complaint about Microsoft or Apple products, I should shut up unless I program for a living? If I have a complaint about my food in a restaurant, I should shut up about it unless I cook for a living? If I have an issue with my cable service, I should not complain unless I work at a cable company? if you answered no to any of these questions, well, Palladium is no different just because you call us fans rather than customers.

Or how about, I tell the company what products I want, so they can then make a reasonable determination as to what they want to release. Should it be said in a more polite way? Sure. But saying "put up or shut up" is not the correct response here.

As for the writers, I don't think anyone is meaning to disrespect them, but they are producing a product for public consumption. This means bad feedback as well as good. Seems like it comes with the territory. It is not disrespect to say to don't like an authors work just because he passed away. Personally, I don't like the China books, and am not looking forward to China 3. I like his other works (like TMNT and N&SS), but China 1&2 did not do anything for me.

In your specific case, where you talk about how much you've "changed the rules to make them better" over and over again?

In your specific case, where a positive word never comes out of your mouth?

In your specific case, where you act as if you are the sole arbiter of how things should work in Rifts?

Yes.

[strtkwr]

[Ok, let's see; Antartica: Yawn, Black Market: Double Yawn, China Three: , Deep South: , New Navy: , Nothern Gun: About Damn time, we've only needed it for what 20 +yrs?, Sovietski: , Titan Industries: Why? All I need to know about Titan Industries fits into a tiny paper sack and is in a Rifter that I already have, Vampire Sourcebook: Worst waste of paper ever.
Next list had better include floor plans for Chi-town and the CS fortress cities as well as them finally crushing the Pecos Bandits (I'm all for a bit of banditry now and again, but the CS easily has the manpower and firepower to bring these guys to heel). Oh, yeah we need EXACT locations for Chi-town and the other CS fortress cities (lattitude and longitude would be nice) too.

If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Most of these books are written by freelancers, and I really wish you'd not diss Erick Wujick's final work with that beating head against the wall smiley. I support the company by buying multiple copies of these things. While some of them may be yawners to you, others may find them valuble or exciting. Gaming supplements are a crapshoot. I know. I write some of them. From now on, when you say this stuff, either submit what you've done to Palladium, or forever hold your peace. Then at least you're putting your money where your mouth is. If you want people to listen to you, you have to be nice to them. A change in your tone might be a good start.

Every single one of those gearhead books, Titan, Northern Gun, etc is guaranteed to sell big because all gamers want a certain amount of crunch with their fluff. Naruni Wave 2 still sells well. Australia? Not so much.

The thing you have to consider is that you are not necessarily the target audience for every product. My target audience for my products is the more intellectually advanced superhero gamer who is looking for a big tactical AND big roleplaying challenge, often simultaneously. But Palladium can't write supplements that way, because unlike Hero, as much as I love it, Rifts is not a niche market. I get awesome reviews from game designers and reviewers, but I don't sell a ton of copies. That's not why I do this. I do it to have a CV. The more you publish, the more work you get.


Michael Satran, Hero System Author under the Blackwyrm Label

Foxbat For President
War of Worldcraft
Unkindness
Pretty Hate Machines

King of the Mountain, coming soon.

Imaginary Friends. In development.

OK, I have to take some exception to what you said above. So, you are saying, as a paying customer, I have no right to tell the company what I think of their products.....intersting. So, if I have a complaint about Microsoft or Apple products, I should shut up unless I program for a living? If I have a complaint about my food in a restaurant, I should shut up about it unless I cook for a living? If I have an issue with my cable service, I should not complain unless I work at a cable company? if you answered no to any of these questions, well, Palladium is no different just because you call us fans rather than customers.

Or how about, I tell the company what products I want, so they can then make a reasonable determination as to what they want to release. Should it be said in a more polite way? Sure. But saying "put up or shut up" is not the correct response here.

As for the writers, I don't think anyone is meaning to disrespect them, but they are producing a product for public consumption. This means bad feedback as well as good. Seems like it comes with the territory. It is not disrespect to say to don't like an authors work just because he passed away. Personally, I don't like the China books, and am not looking forward to China 3. I like his other works (like TMNT and N&SS), but China 1&2 did not do anything for me.

In your specific case, where you talk about how much you've "changed the rules to make them better" over and over again?

In your specific case, where a positive word never comes out of your mouth?

In your specific case, where you act as if you are the sole arbiter of how things should work in Rifts?

Yes.

And you know that anyone here has never said a good thing about PB? Did you check every single post of this poster before you responded to him? and Facebook? and Twitter? Otherwise, how do you know in this specific case this person has never said a good thing about palladium? And a lot of people talk about how they have changed the rules to fit them, some defenders, some detractors, and even the creator of the system, so I fail to see how this is important. And as a customer, I have a right to tell the company how I feel about their product. Again, there is a right way (polite) and a wrong way (rude), but since I am a paying customer, I have the right to give feedback about what I am spending my money on. Again, "put up or shut up" is not a valid argument. This is the argument of someone who has no other defense to make.

[johnkretzer]

While all the list seems like interesting ideas...and not to dis the writters of them there are other things that people really want.

Lazlo is soooo long overdue it is not even funny. Lazlo more than any area in Rifts is probably where most of the adventurewrs hang their hats. It should have been the first book ever in the line.

It is like if there was not a single book on Waterdeep in the FR...

It is like if there was not a single book on Greyhawk in Greyhawk...

It is like if there was not a single book on Sharn in Eberron...

It is like if there was not a single book on Absalom in Golarion...

Etc.

I just don't get why this book has not come out yet. It is dumbfounding bussiness practice for a RPG company.

[Balabanto]

From now on, when you say this stuff, either submit what you've done to Palladium, or forever hold your peace. Then at least you're putting your money where your mouth is.

That is the worst argument ever.

There are a million things in every creative process that can prevent the result from being presented to a broader audience. Even the best manuscript ever submitted can languish in obscurity for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of work. The worst manuscript ever can be published instantly for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of work.

Telling someone, "Well, if you think it sucks, why don't you do it better?" is pathetic. That's not a motivator--that's being an egomaniac. The preferred answer for those who make such statements is, "Well, I can't so your work must be better," when, in reality, it's, "I can't play professional baseball either, but I still know when an pitcher has a bad game."

As consumers, we have expectations. If those expectations are not met, we express displeasure. If that displeasure is met with, "Pshaw! Stupid amatuers! They know nothing of my genius! Let them do better!" instead of addressing concerns, you lose consumers--your audience--because of your hubris.

And without some kind of audience, it doesn't matter how good your work is.

You know, it's funny to hear these sorts of arguments from people who aren't actual writers and don't do any of the writing themselves. Writers write what they write because they are inspired to do so. In fact, the products that receive the best reviews are often the ones that fans pay no attention to.

Take "The Day after Ragnarok", a 3rd party Hero System supplement written by Kenneth Hite.

This thing won awards. It was absolutely fantastic. If you want to see how a supplement should be designed, go out, buy this and read it.

It sold like cat poo.

Your argument is based on a fallacy, which is this: Fan Service produces quality supplements.

It doesn't. Fan service produces supplements fans like. But the problem with Palladium is that supplements are divided into camps, and for every person who thinks things should be one way, there's someone who thinks things should be another. The Forgotten Realms suffered from this also. In fact, FR suffered from this so much that Wizards rebooted it so they wouldn't have to hear the fans voices anymore.

You have to walk on eggshells whenever you publish a supplement like the ones you are asking for, and this means that many of the best freelancers out there are UNWILLING TO WRITE THEM! Precisely because people like you will say that this, that, and the other thing are wrong, and that they'll get their faces ripped off on boards like this.

I've DONE this to people. I turned Richard Baker into a pariah because he didn't "Get" the Forgotten Realms and used it as his personal soapbox and playground to write bad novels. Was it a good idea? Debatable. On the one hand, I coined the phrase "Richard Baker must be stopped!" They made Tee Shirts out of it. It was shocking how much it caught on with the Forgotten Realms fanbase.

In some respects, it was a good idea, because Richard Baker isn't designing game supplements that are designed to fuel his novels anymore. On the other hand, it was a bad idea, because now they have D+D 4th edition Forgotten Realms, which is lion poo on a stick, with absolutely NO supplements or new information whatsoever. Does it make running a game easier? Yes! Is there any new material? No.

And as for your arrogant post, let me just say this:

You are not Keir451. He has repeatedly badmouthed Palladium, said all sorts of obnoxious and offensive things, and he really doesn't seem to care what people think of him. And then, he gets on his high horse and says "Well, I'm not going to submit what I wrote because I don't think they'll take it."

Trust me, as a writer, you submit everything you can. You break your back day after day when you get home from your day job to squeeze in a couple paragraphs here and there as a freelancer.

The biggest illusion that people have, and let me disabuse everyone of this right now, is this:

There is big money in freelance game design.

There is NO money in freelance game design. We do this because we LIKE it, and because we have small fanbases that like us, not because we think we're going to break the bank on this. Really, I get paid 300-500 bucks a year for this. I make more money in my day job on a daily basis.

So when you say stuff like this, you make freelancers think that the result isn't worth it. And there's absolutely no hubris involved. The check at the end of the road is just that. A nice boost. A bill paid. Maybe a couple meals that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford.

What matters is your curriculum vitae, or CV. The longer this thing is, and the more you have published, the more likely it is that you'll be able to get a real project down the line that pays better.

I didn't target you with my post. I targeted Keir because he has bad habits and isn't polite. Don't join him. There are ways of saying things that are constructive and ways of saying things that are destructive.

Constructive criticism builds bridges and helps people. Consider that if you have suggestions for some of the freelancers writing the game, that you approach them with personal messages rather than having everyone read wrathful posts. Think carefully about what you write, because the internet is a rage-based environment.

Try phrasing things in the form of questions rather than as statements. Gamers in particular are a hard bitten bunch who refuse to accept anything they can't see with their own eyes.

As for your argument, bad manuscripts in general don't get published. Your problem is that you're making a qualitative judgement about "Good" and "Bad." A "Good" manuscript for me is one with no typographical errors where everything is properly edited and organized. A "Bad" manuscript is one where you can't easily reference anything, the grammar is ugly, and things have been improperly edited and/or use words that make no sense.

Many Rifts supplements are good manuscripts. There are some that are bad manuscripts. But none of that has anything to do with whether or not an individual gamer likes a supplement as opposed to a game designer.

From a GMing perspective, I love Federation of Magic. The fluff is awesome, the backstory is great, and the side information that they added as a revision on Dweomer was fantastic.

Unfortunately, they didn't actually revise or fix any of the typographical errors in the OCCs, flavor text, and somewhat less clear abilities in the mechanics when they revised the book. How many spells does a Battle Magus get per level? Some, all, or none of these? How does Conjuring work, exactly? This description goes on for over a page and basically the result is the same as if the writer wrote two sentences. 1) The Gm guesses how much weight the object is/has and how much PPE it costs to conjure it. 2) The GM tells the player to mark off that PPE.

This revised book, in other words, wasn't actually revised.

So as a GM, I muddle through it because I like the information. As a game designer? Are you nuts? I never would have released this thing. So our perspective for what a "good" manuscript is changes based on the role we are currently taking. Your argument holds even less weight because Palladium is an insular writing community. Only a very small core of freelancers get their things published by this company. I haven't broken the barrier with this company yet, and I don't expect to for many years. It really depends on what GK thinks of my work after he reviews my Hero System supplements. Then some people I've never seen have a discussion and decide if my style is right for Palladium. Eight times out of ten, when this happens, the answer will be "No."

And Freelancers don't choose their target market based on what the company does. Freelancers develop their ideas based on what's going on in their games at home. That's what I do, I'm sure that's what Brandon Aten and Galactus Kid do, and I'm sure that's what Kevin does. Is Keir451's game better than mine, or anyone elses?

Who knows? But if you don't try, you have no chance to succeed, and then when you say the kind of stuff he does, people take it with a tub of salt and a jar of vinegar.

So bring your ideas to the table. But fully develop them and edit them before you drop your manuscript on people.

[strtkwr]

From now on, when you say this stuff, either submit what you've done to Palladium, or forever hold your peace. Then at least you're putting your money where your mouth is.

That is the worst argument ever.

There are a million things in every creative process that can prevent the result from being presented to a broader audience. Even the best manuscript ever submitted can languish in obscurity for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of work. The worst manuscript ever can be published instantly for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of work.

Telling someone, "Well, if you think it sucks, why don't you do it better?" is pathetic. That's not a motivator--that's being an egomaniac. The preferred answer for those who make such statements is, "Well, I can't so your work must be better," when, in reality, it's, "I can't play professional baseball either, but I still know when an pitcher has a bad game."

As consumers, we have expectations. If those expectations are not met, we express displeasure. If that displeasure is met with, "Pshaw! Stupid amatuers! They know nothing of my genius! Let them do better!" instead of addressing concerns, you lose consumers--your audience--because of your hubris.

And without some kind of audience, it doesn't matter how good your work is.

You know, it's funny to hear these sorts of arguments from people who aren't actual writers and don't do any of the writing themselves. Writers write what they write because they are inspired to do so. In fact, the products that receive the best reviews are often the ones that fans pay no attention to.

Take "The Day after Ragnarok", a 3rd party Hero System supplement written by Kenneth Hite.

This thing won awards. It was absolutely fantastic. If you want to see how a supplement should be designed, go out, buy this and read it.

It sold like cat poo.

Your argument is based on a fallacy, which is this: Fan Service produces quality supplements.

It doesn't. Fan service produces supplements fans like. But the problem with Palladium is that supplements are divided into camps, and for every person who thinks things should be one way, there's someone who thinks things should be another. The Forgotten Realms suffered from this also. In fact, FR suffered from this so much that Wizards rebooted it so they wouldn't have to hear the fans voices anymore.

You have to walk on eggshells whenever you publish a supplement like the ones you are asking for, and this means that many of the best freelancers out there are UNWILLING TO WRITE THEM! Precisely because people like you will say that this, that, and the other thing are wrong, and that they'll get their faces ripped off on boards like this.

I've DONE this to people. I turned Richard Baker into a pariah because he didn't "Get" the Forgotten Realms and used it as his personal soapbox and playground to write bad novels. Was it a good idea? Debatable. On the one hand, I coined the phrase "Richard Baker must be stopped!" They made Tee Shirts out of it. It was shocking how much it caught on with the Forgotten Realms fanbase.

In some respects, it was a good idea, because Richard Baker isn't designing game supplements that are designed to fuel his novels anymore. On the other hand, it was a bad idea, because now they have D+D 4th edition Forgotten Realms, which is lion poo on a stick, with absolutely NO supplements or new information whatsoever. Does it make running a game easier? Yes! Is there any new material? No.

And as for your arrogant post, let me just say this:

You are not Keir451. He has repeatedly badmouthed Palladium, said all sorts of obnoxious and offensive things, and he really doesn't seem to care what people think of him. And then, he gets on his high horse and says "Well, I'm not going to submit what I wrote because I don't think they'll take it."

Trust me, as a writer, you submit everything you can. You break your back day after day when you get home from your day job to squeeze in a couple paragraphs here and there as a freelancer.

The biggest illusion that people have, and let me disabuse everyone of this right now, is this:

There is big money in freelance game design.

There is NO money in freelance game design. We do this because we LIKE it, and because we have small fanbases that like us, not because we think we're going to break the bank on this. Really, I get paid 300-500 bucks a year for this. I make more money in my day job on a daily basis.

So when you say stuff like this, you make freelancers think that the result isn't worth it. And there's absolutely no hubris involved. The check at the end of the road is just that. A nice boost. A bill paid. Maybe a couple meals that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford.

What matters is your curriculum vitae, or CV. The longer this thing is, and the more you have published, the more likely it is that you'll be able to get a real project down the line that pays better.

I didn't target you with my post. I targeted Keir because he has bad habits and isn't polite. Don't join him. There are ways of saying things that are constructive and ways of saying things that are destructive.

Constructive criticism builds bridges and helps people. Consider that if you have suggestions for some of the freelancers writing the game, that you approach them with personal messages rather than having everyone read wrathful posts. Think carefully about what you write, because the internet is a rage-based environment.

Try phrasing things in the form of questions rather than as statements. Gamers in particular are a hard bitten bunch who refuse to accept anything they can't see with their own eyes.

As for your argument, bad manuscripts in general don't get published. Your problem is that you're making a qualitative judgement about "Good" and "Bad." A "Good" manuscript for me is one with no typographical errors where everything is properly edited and organized. A "Bad" manuscript is one where you can't easily reference anything, the grammar is ugly, and things have been improperly edited and/or use words that make no sense.

Many Rifts supplements are good manuscripts. There are some that are bad manuscripts. But none of that has anything to do with whether or not an individual gamer likes a supplement as opposed to a game designer.

From a GMing perspective, I love Federation of Magic. The fluff is awesome, the backstory is great, and the side information that they added as a revision on Dweomer was fantastic.

Unfortunately, they didn't actually revise or fix any of the typographical errors in the OCCs, flavor text, and somewhat less clear abilities in the mechanics when they revised the book. How many spells does a Battle Magus get per level? Some, all, or none of these? How does Conjuring work, exactly? This description goes on for over a page and basically the result is the same as if the writer wrote two sentences. 1) The Gm guesses how much weight the object is/has and how much PPE it costs to conjure it. 2) The GM tells the player to mark off that PPE.

This revised book, in other words, wasn't actually revised.

So as a GM, I muddle through it because I like the information. As a game designer? Are you nuts? I never would have released this thing. So our perspective for what a "good" manuscript is changes based on the role we are currently taking. Your argument holds even less weight because Palladium is an insular writing community. Only a very small core of freelancers get their things published by this company. I haven't broken the barrier with this company yet, and I don't expect to for many years. It really depends on what GK thinks of my work after he reviews my Hero System supplements. Then some people I've never seen have a discussion and decide if my style is right for Palladium. Eight times out of ten, when this happens, the answer will be "No."

And Freelancers don't choose their target market based on what the company does. Freelancers develop their ideas based on what's going on in their games at home. That's what I do, I'm sure that's what Brandon Aten and Galactus Kid do, and I'm sure that's what Kevin does. Is Keir451's game better than mine, or anyone elses?

Who knows? But if you don't try, you have no chance to succeed, and then when you say the kind of stuff he does, people take it with a tub of salt and a jar of vinegar.

So bring your ideas to the table. But fully develop them and edit them before you drop your manuscript on people.

And if you had said something along the lines of be polite or don't say anything, I would not have a problem with that. As I stated before, people should be polite with their critism. Just because I don't like a person's work, I don't have to call it crap, nor insult the person. But, that is not what you said. You said if you are not a writer, you have no cause to complain. And that is a lousy arguement.

[Balabanto]

From now on, when you say this stuff, either submit what you've done to Palladium, or forever hold your peace. Then at least you're putting your money where your mouth is.

That is the worst argument ever.

There are a million things in every creative process that can prevent the result from being presented to a broader audience. Even the best manuscript ever submitted can languish in obscurity for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of work. The worst manuscript ever can be published instantly for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of work.

Telling someone, "Well, if you think it sucks, why don't you do it better?" is pathetic. That's not a motivator--that's being an egomaniac. The preferred answer for those who make such statements is, "Well, I can't so your work must be better," when, in reality, it's, "I can't play professional baseball either, but I still know when an pitcher has a bad game."

As consumers, we have expectations. If those expectations are not met, we express displeasure. If that displeasure is met with, "Pshaw! Stupid amatuers! They know nothing of my genius! Let them do better!" instead of addressing concerns, you lose consumers--your audience--because of your hubris.

And without some kind of audience, it doesn't matter how good your work is.

You know, it's funny to hear these sorts of arguments from people who aren't actual writers and don't do any of the writing themselves. Writers write what they write because they are inspired to do so. In fact, the products that receive the best reviews are often the ones that fans pay no attention to.

Take "The Day after Ragnarok", a 3rd party Hero System supplement written by Kenneth Hite.

This thing won awards. It was absolutely fantastic. If you want to see how a supplement should be designed, go out, buy this and read it.

It sold like cat poo.

Your argument is based on a fallacy, which is this: Fan Service produces quality supplements.

It doesn't. Fan service produces supplements fans like. But the problem with Palladium is that supplements are divided into camps, and for every person who thinks things should be one way, there's someone who thinks things should be another. The Forgotten Realms suffered from this also. In fact, FR suffered from this so much that Wizards rebooted it so they wouldn't have to hear the fans voices anymore.

You have to walk on eggshells whenever you publish a supplement like the ones you are asking for, and this means that many of the best freelancers out there are UNWILLING TO WRITE THEM! Precisely because people like you will say that this, that, and the other thing are wrong, and that they'll get their faces ripped off on boards like this.

I've DONE this to people. I turned Richard Baker into a pariah because he didn't "Get" the Forgotten Realms and used it as his personal soapbox and playground to write bad novels. Was it a good idea? Debatable. On the one hand, I coined the phrase "Richard Baker must be stopped!" They made Tee Shirts out of it. It was shocking how much it caught on with the Forgotten Realms fanbase.

In some respects, it was a good idea, because Richard Baker isn't designing game supplements that are designed to fuel his novels anymore. On the other hand, it was a bad idea, because now they have D+D 4th edition Forgotten Realms, which is lion poo on a stick, with absolutely NO supplements or new information whatsoever. Does it make running a game easier? Yes! Is there any new material? No.

And as for your arrogant post, let me just say this:

You are not Keir451. He has repeatedly badmouthed Palladium, said all sorts of obnoxious and offensive things, and he really doesn't seem to care what people think of him. And then, he gets on his high horse and says "Well, I'm not going to submit what I wrote because I don't think they'll take it."

Trust me, as a writer, you submit everything you can. You break your back day after day when you get home from your day job to squeeze in a couple paragraphs here and there as a freelancer.

The biggest illusion that people have, and let me disabuse everyone of this right now, is this:

There is big money in freelance game design.

There is NO money in freelance game design. We do this because we LIKE it, and because we have small fanbases that like us, not because we think we're going to break the bank on this. Really, I get paid 300-500 bucks a year for this. I make more money in my day job on a daily basis.

So when you say stuff like this, you make freelancers think that the result isn't worth it. And there's absolutely no hubris involved. The check at the end of the road is just that. A nice boost. A bill paid. Maybe a couple meals that you otherwise wouldn't have been able to afford.

What matters is your curriculum vitae, or CV. The longer this thing is, and the more you have published, the more likely it is that you'll be able to get a real project down the line that pays better.

I didn't target you with my post. I targeted Keir because he has bad habits and isn't polite. Don't join him. There are ways of saying things that are constructive and ways of saying things that are destructive.

Constructive criticism builds bridges and helps people. Consider that if you have suggestions for some of the freelancers writing the game, that you approach them with personal messages rather than having everyone read wrathful posts. Think carefully about what you write, because the internet is a rage-based environment.

Try phrasing things in the form of questions rather than as statements. Gamers in particular are a hard bitten bunch who refuse to accept anything they can't see with their own eyes.

As for your argument, bad manuscripts in general don't get published. Your problem is that you're making a qualitative judgement about "Good" and "Bad." A "Good" manuscript for me is one with no typographical errors where everything is properly edited and organized. A "Bad" manuscript is one where you can't easily reference anything, the grammar is ugly, and things have been improperly edited and/or use words that make no sense.

Many Rifts supplements are good manuscripts. There are some that are bad manuscripts. But none of that has anything to do with whether or not an individual gamer likes a supplement as opposed to a game designer.

From a GMing perspective, I love Federation of Magic. The fluff is awesome, the backstory is great, and the side information that they added as a revision on Dweomer was fantastic.

Unfortunately, they didn't actually revise or fix any of the typographical errors in the OCCs, flavor text, and somewhat less clear abilities in the mechanics when they revised the book. How many spells does a Battle Magus get per level? Some, all, or none of these? How does Conjuring work, exactly? This description goes on for over a page and basically the result is the same as if the writer wrote two sentences. 1) The Gm guesses how much weight the object is/has and how much PPE it costs to conjure it. 2) The GM tells the player to mark off that PPE.

This revised book, in other words, wasn't actually revised.

So as a GM, I muddle through it because I like the information. As a game designer? Are you nuts? I never would have released this thing. So our perspective for what a "good" manuscript is changes based on the role we are currently taking. Your argument holds even less weight because Palladium is an insular writing community. Only a very small core of freelancers get their things published by this company. I haven't broken the barrier with this company yet, and I don't expect to for many years. It really depends on what GK thinks of my work after he reviews my Hero System supplements. Then some people I've never seen have a discussion and decide if my style is right for Palladium. Eight times out of ten, when this happens, the answer will be "No."

And Freelancers don't choose their target market based on what the company does. Freelancers develop their ideas based on what's going on in their games at home. That's what I do, I'm sure that's what Brandon Aten and Galactus Kid do, and I'm sure that's what Kevin does. Is Keir451's game better than mine, or anyone elses?

Who knows? But if you don't try, you have no chance to succeed, and then when you say the kind of stuff he does, people take it with a tub of salt and a jar of vinegar.

So bring your ideas to the table. But fully develop them and edit them before you drop your manuscript on people.

And if you had said something along the lines of be polite or don't say anything, I would not have a problem with that. As I stated before, people should be polite with their critism. Just because I don't like a person's work, I don't have to call it crap, nor insult the person. But, that is not what you said. You said if you are not a writer, you have no cause to complain. And that is a lousy arguement.

And in Keir451's case, that is absolutely correct, because he has taken that tone previously. You didn't read a word I wrote. What you're doing is creating a "Glittering Generality" (or in this case a "Glitterboy Generality"-because much like the purpose NEMA originally used Gitterboys for, the view of them has become vastly distorted) that a specific case informs ALL cases, rather than one case (Keir451's comments about how what he's done is better) making a small comment on a larger whole.

[Saitou Hajime]

While all the list seems like interesting ideas...and not to dis the writters of them there are other things that people really want.

Lazlo is soooo long overdue it is not even funny. Lazlo more than any area in Rifts is probably where most of the adventurewrs hang their hats. It should have been the first book ever in the line.

It is like if there was not a single book on Waterdeep in the FR...

It is like if there was not a single book on Greyhawk in Greyhawk...

It is like if there was not a single book on Sharn in Eberron...

It is like if there was not a single book on Absalom in Golarion...

Etc.

I just don't get why this book has not come out yet. It is dumbfounding bussiness practice for a RPG company.

The facts likely are no one has submitted a manuscript for it, and Kevin hasn't told one of the freelancers to tackle it. It happens, Kevin's time I figure currently is so wrapped up in editing and polish other stuff that he doesn't have time to do so. There could be dozens of half done Word Perfect files with Kevin's know on such ideas but he doesn't have time to go back and work with it in this current economy. Palladium is like what five full time people after all.

Some times as a company, you put out what ready not what everyone wants because some product is better than no product.

[Giant2005]

copy/paste from latest weekly update

Rifts® Antarctica
Rifts® Black Market
Rifts® China Three
Rifts® Deep South
Rifts® New Navy™
Rifts® Northern Gun™ – may be a series of books.
Rifts® Sovietski™
Rifts® Titan Industries™
Rifts® Vampires Sourcebook™

Ok, let's see; Antartica: Yawn, Black Market: Double Yawn, China Three: , Deep South: , New Navy: , Nothern Gun: About Damn time, we've only needed it for what 20 +yrs?, Sovietski: , Titan Industries: Why? All I need to know about Titan Industries fits into a tiny paper sack and is in a Rifter that I already have, Vampire Sourcebook: Worst waste of paper ever.
Next list had better include floor plans for Chi-town and the CS fortress cities as well as them finally crushing the Pecos Bandits (I'm all for a bit of banditry now and again, but the CS easily has the manpower and firepower to bring these guys to heel). Oh, yeah we need EXACT locations for Chi-town and the other CS fortress cities (lattitude and longitude would be nice) too.

If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Most of these books are written by freelancers, and I really wish you'd not diss Erick Wujick's final work with that beating head against the wall smiley. I support the company by buying multiple copies of these things. While some of them may be yawners to you, others may find them valuble or exciting. Gaming supplements are a crapshoot. I know. I write some of them. From now on, when you say this stuff, either submit what you've done to Palladium, or forever hold your peace. Then at least you're putting your money where your mouth is. If you want people to listen to you, you have to be nice to them. A change in your tone might be a good start.

Every single one of those gearhead books, Titan, Northern Gun, etc is guaranteed to sell big because all gamers want a certain amount of crunch with their fluff. Naruni Wave 2 still sells well. Australia? Not so much.

The thing you have to consider is that you are not necessarily the target audience for every product. My target audience for my products is the more intellectually advanced superhero gamer who is looking for a big tactical AND big roleplaying challenge, often simultaneously. But Palladium can't write supplements that way, because unlike Hero, as much as I love it, Rifts is not a niche market. I get awesome reviews from game designers and reviewers, but I don't sell a ton of copies. That's not why I do this. I do it to have a CV. The more you publish, the more work you get.


Michael Satran, Hero System Author under the Blackwyrm Label

Foxbat For President
War of Worldcraft
Unkindness
Pretty Hate Machines

King of the Mountain, coming soon.

Imaginary Friends. In development.

OK, I have to take some exception to what you said above. So, you are saying, as a paying customer, I have no right to tell the company what I think of their products.....intersting. So, if I have a complaint about Microsoft or Apple products, I should shut up unless I program for a living? If I have a complaint about my food in a restaurant, I should shut up about it unless I cook for a living? If I have an issue with my cable service, I should not complain unless I work at a cable company? if you answered no to any of these questions, well, Palladium is no different just because you call us fans rather than customers.

Or how about, I tell the company what products I want, so they can then make a reasonable determination as to what they want to release. Should it be said in a more polite way? Sure. But saying "put up or shut up" is not the correct response here.

As for the writers, I don't think anyone is meaning to disrespect them, but they are producing a product for public consumption. This means bad feedback as well as good. Seems like it comes with the territory. It is not disrespect to say to don't like an authors work just because he passed away. Personally, I don't like the China books, and am not looking forward to China 3. I like his other works (like TMNT and N&SS), but China 1&2 did not do anything for me.

You aren't telling them what you think of their products. you are telling them what products to be making. There isa very significant different.
what you are doing is akin to complaining to Nike because they won't make you a nice new computer monitor or asking to see that manager at KFC because those rude cashiers refuse to give you a Big Mac.
The fact of the matter is the only reason you feel you have a right to complain is the fact that you consider yourself more of a fan than a customer - otherwise you would go ahead and buy yourself some chicken or leave and head for Maccas.

[Killer Cyborg]

I don't see anything wrong with a person giving their impressions of the upcoming book list.
When I saw the ads for that KFC "Fried Chicken is the New Bread" meat-on-meat-on-meat sandwich, I sure as heck formed an opinion on whether or not I'd like it, and I'm pretty free about speaking my opinion to others.

(No, I wouldn't like it!)

[Jason Richards]

While all the list seems like interesting ideas...and not to dis the writters of them there are other things that people really want.

Lazlo is soooo long overdue it is not even funny. Lazlo more than any area in Rifts is probably where most of the adventurewrs hang their hats. It should have been the first book ever in the line.

It is like if there was not a single book on Waterdeep in the FR...

It is like if there was not a single book on Greyhawk in Greyhawk...

It is like if there was not a single book on Sharn in Eberron...

It is like if there was not a single book on Absalom in Golarion...

Etc.

I just don't get why this book has not come out yet. It is dumbfounding bussiness practice for a RPG company.

In all of the games I have played, with the many people I have played with, none of us has ever had a character from Lazlo. While I do think there needs to be a Lazlo book, I don't see it as a place where most adventurers "hang their hats".

Kind of agree with Shini, here. This is a pretty good example of a "the way I game is the way everyone games" thought process. Come to think of it, I don't think in my years and years of Rifts gaming as GM or player, have I ever had a character set foot in Lazlo, Tolkeen, or any CS mega-city.

Still important books, but I think we do kinda lose perspective at times.

[strtkwr]

You aren't telling them what you think of their products. you are telling them what products to be making. There isa very significant different.
what you are doing is akin to complaining to Nike because they won't make you a nice new computer monitor or asking to see that manager at KFC because those rude cashiers refuse to give you a Big Mac.
The fact of the matter is the only reason you feel you have a right to complain is the fact that you consider yourself more of a fan than a customer - otherwise you would go ahead and buy yourself some chicken or leave and head for Maccas.

So, what I hear you saying is, you feel that your customers telling you what they want is a bad thing? And we are not asking PB to make us something outside their business model, like you are suggesting. We are asking them to make role playing books (which is what they are supposed to be making,last I checked). And I give feedback because I am a customer. If I did not buy their products, I would not care what they make. I am telling them what I will and will not spend money on. I would think this is important information for a business to know. Now, they don't have to do what any of their customers suggest, however, they should at least know so they can make an informed business choice.

[Killer Cyborg]

While all the list seems like interesting ideas...and not to dis the writters of them there are other things that people really want.

Lazlo is soooo long overdue it is not even funny. Lazlo more than any area in Rifts is probably where most of the adventurewrs hang their hats. It should have been the first book ever in the line.

It is like if there was not a single book on Waterdeep in the FR...

It is like if there was not a single book on Greyhawk in Greyhawk...

It is like if there was not a single book on Sharn in Eberron...

It is like if there was not a single book on Absalom in Golarion...

Etc.

I just don't get why this book has not come out yet. It is dumbfounding bussiness practice for a RPG company.

In all of the games I have played, with the many people I have played with, none of us has ever had a character from Lazlo. While I do think there needs to be a Lazlo book, I don't see it as a place where most adventurers "hang their hats".

Kind of agree with Shini, here. This is a pretty good example of a "the way I game is the way everyone games" thought process. Come to think of it, I don't think in my years and years of Rifts gaming as GM or player, have I ever had a character set foot in Lazlo, Tolkeen, or any CS mega-city.

Still important books, but I think we do kinda lose perspective at times.

IF they'd actually written a book on one of these locations, places mentioned as being important in the original book, would you have had a character from there then?

[Sureshot]

Let's get one thing straight. As long as I give feedback in a constructive manner I will give it. There is no way I'm going to stop doing so because it might hurt someone feeelings. Or because someone tells me to or because it bothers someone. It's a non-negationable PERIOD. Sorry but that's what happens when you sell a product. One has to expect both good and negative feedback. I work in a bookstore where customers chew me out regularily because while our dollar is strong book publishers have n0t altered the prices on the books overnight. It bothered me at first I grew a thicker skin and I'm fine with it. It's one thing to be bothered by it if say PB published everything we wasked for and one book was not one we wanted. It's been happening to often imo as of late. If we never speak up that will never change. Or anything else I or others feel need to be changed. So is this the new tactic now. Makes us out to be heartless and uncaring. Nice try but I have seen that tactic used before.

[Jason Richards]

While all the list seems like interesting ideas...and not to dis the writters of them there are other things that people really want.

Lazlo is soooo long overdue it is not even funny. Lazlo more than any area in Rifts is probably where most of the adventurewrs hang their hats. It should have been the first book ever in the line.

It is like if there was not a single book on Waterdeep in the FR...

It is like if there was not a single book on Greyhawk in Greyhawk...

It is like if there was not a single book on Sharn in Eberron...

It is like if there was not a single book on Absalom in Golarion...

Etc.

I just don't get why this book has not come out yet. It is dumbfounding bussiness practice for a RPG company.

In all of the games I have played, with the many people I have played with, none of us has ever had a character from Lazlo. While I do think there needs to be a Lazlo book, I don't see it as a place where most adventurers "hang their hats".

Kind of agree with Shini, here. This is a pretty good example of a "the way I game is the way everyone games" thought process. Come to think of it, I don't think in my years and years of Rifts gaming as GM or player, have I ever had a character set foot in Lazlo, Tolkeen, or any CS mega-city.

Still important books, but I think we do kinda lose perspective at times.

IF they'd actually written a book on one of these locations, places mentioned as being important in the original book, would you have had a character from there then?

Probably not. We were very RMB-style wilderness gamers. That was really the focus of the game to start, I always felt. Plus, being that we were never all humans (let alone Chi-Town citizens), we wouldn't likely have gone to any CS city. Lazlo or Tolkeen, maybe. Actually places like Kingsdale would be more likely.

[Killer Cyborg]

IF they'd actually written a book on one of these locations, places mentioned as being important in the original book, would you have had a character from there then?

Probably not. We were very RMB-style wilderness gamers. That was really the focus of the game to start, I always felt. Plus, being that we were never all humans (let alone Chi-Town citizens), we wouldn't likely have gone to any CS city. Lazlo or Tolkeen, maybe. Actually places like Kingsdale would be more likely.

With the original background generation tables, there's a 20% chance that the environment you're from is "Coalition City or Burbs."
The way the main book is presented, it's just as easily geared for CS campaigns as for non-CS campaigns, and we had a mix of both.

Whether or not you played them, there were plenty of OCCs in the main book geared toward large cities (City Rat, for example) and/or CS territory (all the CS classes).

SO whether or not YOU might have played a character from Lazlo or Chi-Town, or played an adventure IN Lazlo or Chi-Town, can you see how others might well have had a need for more information on those areas?

[Saitou Hajime]

I never need Lazlo, the Fortress Cities are not useful for games unless the game set up all around them as they are impossible to get into for the average non-citizen. I never need them either. Yes the Burbs were detailed in the little adventure books, sorry for that but it did work well. don't own them pick them up neat stuff.

[Hannibal]

I think it was Gleba who said way back at Open House 1 that he had plans for a Lazlo series. What ever happened? (Of course, the Minion War was also supposed to be wrapped up years ago too lol) Lazlo is clearly a high-demand book that would sell extremely well!

[The Beast]

Let's get one thing straight. As long as I give feedback in a constructive manner I will give it. There is no way I'm going to stop doing so because it might hurt someone feeelings. Or because someone tells me to or because it bothers someone. It's a non-negationable PERIOD. Sorry but that's what happens when you sell a product. One has to expect both good and negative feedback. I work in a bookstore where customers chew me out regularily because while our dollar is strong book publishers have n0t altered the prices on the books overnight. It bothered me at first I grew a thicker skin and I'm fine with it. It's one thing to be bothered by it if say PB published everything we asked for and one book was not one we wanted. It's been happening to often imo as of late. If we never speak up that will never change. Or anything else I or others feel need to be changed. So is this the new tactic now. Makes us out to be heartless and uncaring. Nice try but I have seen that tactic used before.

[Jason Richards]

IF they'd actually written a book on one of these locations, places mentioned as being important in the original book, would you have had a character from there then?

Probably not. We were very RMB-style wilderness gamers. That was really the focus of the game to start, I always felt. Plus, being that we were never all humans (let alone Chi-Town citizens), we wouldn't likely have gone to any CS city. Lazlo or Tolkeen, maybe. Actually places like Kingsdale would be more likely.

With the original background generation tables, there's a 20% chance that the environment you're from is "Coalition City or Burbs."
The way the main book is presented, it's just as easily geared for CS campaigns as for non-CS campaigns, and we had a mix of both.

Whether or not you played them, there were plenty of OCCs in the main book geared toward large cities (City Rat, for example) and/or CS territory (all the CS classes).

SO whether or not YOU might have played a character from Lazlo or Chi-Town, or played an adventure IN Lazlo or Chi-Town, can you see how others might well have had a need for more information on those areas?

Maybe I wasn't clear when I said, "Still important books, but I think we do kinda lose perspective at times."

[Killer Cyborg]

Maybe I wasn't clear when I said, "Still important books, but I think we do kinda lose perspective at times."

Maybe you were clear, but I lost perspective.

[johnkretzer]

While all the list seems like interesting ideas...and not to dis the writters of them there are other things that people really want.

Lazlo is soooo long overdue it is not even funny. Lazlo more than any area in Rifts is probably where most of the adventurewrs hang their hats. It should have been the first book ever in the line.

It is like if there was not a single book on Waterdeep in the FR...

It is like if there was not a single book on Greyhawk in Greyhawk...

It is like if there was not a single book on Sharn in Eberron...

It is like if there was not a single book on Absalom in Golarion...

Etc.

I just don't get why this book has not come out yet. It is dumbfounding bussiness practice for a RPG company.

In all of the games I have played, with the many people I have played with, none of us has ever had a character from Lazlo. While I do think there needs to be a Lazlo book, I don't see it as a place where most adventurers "hang their hats".

Kind of agree with Shini, here. This is a pretty good example of a "the way I game is the way everyone games" thought process. Come to think of it, I don't think in my years and years of Rifts gaming as GM or player, have I ever had a character set foot in Lazlo, Tolkeen, or any CS mega-city.

Still important books, but I think we do kinda lose perspective at times.

Wow both you and Shinitenshi accused for something I did not do....than did the thing you accused me of yourselves.

I used word like 'probably' and 'most'....this in no ways means since in my games Lazlo is important that it is for everyone. But both of your statements seem to say since we ignore it it is not important.

And also if they ever do produce a Lazlo book than all those GMs out there afraid to use it because it will be contradicted later will actualy start useing it.

Also I doubt any group goes to antiartica...yet we get that book.

Either come out with the damn Lazlo book or never ever do so and say so. I am fine with leaving it up to the GMs out there to come up with their own stuff...but I think Lazlo will be one of their best sellers. As moree groups preobably would get used out of it...than say book 3 of China or Antiarctica. In this economy I don't get how you can ignore such a money maker like that.

It is not about quality or 'interesting ideas' it is about what your consumers need. And sorry to say Rifts need Lazlo done up in a big way. We got the CS detailed highly enough...lets see the other side done up.

[Nether]

NA is way overdone for me as well. I thought the CS war books completely went off base by offering it for one, in 6 books, another is we didn't need war progression books when they could have been doing what i consider true world books. They could have also put out a book just that covers magic in certain element, like a creation book that covered TW creation, Psi Tech creation, magic construct construction and also reg tech designs + how to tweak tech with skills, and PA modification, which really would have been high priority for me and i suspect others.

The books they will do that i want to see first is Japan 2 and China 3 which ironically is both there magic books. I also like vampires and think the updated book will be worth it.

I don't care about Lazlo, nor the dinosaur swamps, nor d-bee's, nor mad haven book ext. How did these books ever beat out a compilation book on PA, Robot armor, vehicles? Actually i think these books should have been pretty low priority in the scope of all the greater possibilities.

For our 15 years of gaming in Rifts, we have maybe stopped in Lazlo once and then moved on. I just don't see anything about this city that warrants it's own book. We have used tolkeen a bit, as some players have had shops there but again we never really needed any kind of city book on it to play there. I could see many of the current books getting updates like they have done to some, and even preferable to the ones i just mentioned.

My groups have been all around the world and we've used a good number of the books, so i would rather see more on the big nations/continents that encompass alot more than just lowly NG or any other little faction books of NA which has been done to death.

KS has alot of great ideas, but some of this latest stuff feels not so attractive to buy.

[DBX]

While all the list seems like interesting ideas...and not to dis the writters of them there are other things that people really want.

Lazlo is soooo long overdue it is not even funny. Lazlo more than any area in Rifts is probably where most of the adventurewrs hang their hats. It should have been the first book ever in the line.

It is like if there was not a single book on Waterdeep in the FR...

It is like if there was not a single book on Greyhawk in Greyhawk...

It is like if there was not a single book on Sharn in Eberron...

It is like if there was not a single book on Absalom in Golarion...

Etc.

I just don't get why this book has not come out yet. It is dumbfounding bussiness practice for a RPG company.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Rifts® Antarctica - ok this might be good then again depends on who is writing it.

Rifts® Black Market- really after 20+ years finally
Rifts® China Three- more on the good friendly communist scum
Rifts® Deep South - sounds good
Rifts® New Navy™ - really why waste the time
Rifts® Northern Gun™ – may be a series of books. cool
Rifts® Sovietski™ - see china three
Rifts® Titan Industries™ - archie archie next to another coalition book its the next best thing the adventures of a boy and his crazy toaster
Rifts® Vampires Sourcebook™ see first one for my reply