Zentraedi vs the Three Galaxies

[Elthbert]

not agianst phaseworld ships, at least not when you have dozens of them.

[jaymz]

True that a standard sized anti-ship weapon, but could you imagine thier reaction if a Macross II ship fired a volley of turrets each doing what themain cannon on a battleship does? They'd **** themselves a pile to hide uner

[taalismn]

True that a standard sized anti-ship weapon, but could you imagine thier reaction if a Macross II ship fired a volley of turrets each doing what themain cannon on a battleship does? They'd **** themselves a pile to hide uner

I'd do that if ANY warship fired a freakin' volley of main cannon-force shots!
We have 'Itano Circus' for a missile storm, but we don't yet have an adequate term to describe anime ships going all streaky with ENERGY volleys....

[DhAkael]

I'd do that if ANY warship fired a freakin' volley of main cannon-force shots!
We have 'Itano Circus' for a missile storm, but we don't yet have an adequate term to describe anime ships going all streaky with ENERGY volleys....

Danmaku = Rain of fire

[taalismn]

I'd do that if ANY warship fired a freakin' volley of main cannon-force shots!
We have 'Itano Circus' for a missile storm, but we don't yet have an adequate term to describe anime ships going all streaky with ENERGY volleys....

Danmaku = Rain of fire

I like it! Danmaku! Beats 'Phaser Sleet' by a mile!

[keir451]

I was just reading DO (Dimensional Outbreak) and considering how the REF/UEEF ships would fare against this new threat.
The old school SDF-3 and Ikazuchi's are definetely tough ships in some respects, but against the Demons? I dunno, I imagine a Demon ship w/Invulnerable to energy vs SDF-3. That and tho' Alphas are manueverable little suckers, I don't think they'd last long agaonst demon fighters.
Any one else have thoughts or ideas?

[taalismn]

I was just reading DO (Dimensional Outbreak) and considering how the REF/UEEF ships would fare against this new threat.
The old school SDF-3 and Ikazuchi's are definetely tough ships in some respects, but against the Demons? I dunno, I imagine a Demon ship w/Invulnerable to energy vs SDF-3. That and tho' Alphas are manueverable little suckers, I don't think they'd last long agaonst demon fighters.
Any one else have thoughts or ideas?

The Demon Ships are SUPPOSED to scare the hell out of anybody accustomed to the happy overkill of their technological systems.
SDF-1's Main Gun SHOULD be able to vap a Demon Ship (or fleet of them), but anything with statable damage is going to have problems watching their weapons fire wash over those infernal magic shields.
Maybe something like Emerson's Space Fold attack that he used on the Masters MIGHT work, because it tears apart the fabric of space/time, but to be effective, you have to lure the enemy within virtual spitting distance of you, and some of those psychic demon types might figure the seemingly helpless ship is up to something.

[keir451]

I was just reading DO (Dimensional Outbreak) and considering how the REF/UEEF ships would fare against this new threat.
The old school SDF-3 and Ikazuchi's are definetely tough ships in some respects, but against the Demons? I dunno, I imagine a Demon ship w/Invulnerable to energy vs SDF-3. That and tho' Alphas are manueverable little suckers, I don't think they'd last long agaonst demon fighters.
Any one else have thoughts or ideas?

The Demon Ships are SUPPOSED to scare the hell out of anybody accustomed to the happy overkill of their technological systems.
SDF-1's Main Gun SHOULD be able to vap a Demon Ship (or fleet of them), but anything with statable damage is going to have problems watching their weapons fire wash over those infernal magic shields.
Maybe something like Emerson's Space Fold attack that he used on the Masters MIGHT work, because it tears apart the fabric of space/time, but to be effective, you have to lure the enemy within virtual spitting distance of you, and some of those psychic demon types might figure the seemingly helpless ship is up to something.

Do you think that the REF/Zentraedi could still inflict some heavy damage or would they get trashed pretty quickly?

[Jorel]

Are the clones from Star Wars just Zentradi 1000s of years previous?

[taalismn]

Are the clones from Star Wars just Zentradi 1000s of years previous?

Oh dear...you do NOT want to summon the Demons of the Lucasfilm Legal Departmmmeeeennnntttt!!!!

[gaby]

Well the 3G,s ships have MD armor plus force field,and I think the Zentraedi have only armor.
That how I balance things when I make a crossover.

[Tyranneix]

Well the 3G,s ships have MD armor plus force field,and I think the Zentraedi have only armor.
That how I balance things when I make a crossover.

there armor is very comparable and effectively light when it comes to the ships of the 3G. it's the size that people often forget about that their light scout ships are the size a 3G battle cruiser or carrier.

[Tyranneix]

Are the clones from Star Wars just Zentradi 1000s of years previous?

Oh dear...you do NOT want to summon the Demons of the Lucasfilm Legal Departmmmeeeennnntttt!!!!

Your right you don't. Lucas has the Sith Lawyers. truly evil beings.

[Vrykolas2k]

Actually Zino I did. Just didn't really care about their version which is tech oriented. I'll stick to those rules on Proto culture fold systems being very likely to malfunction. I don't think well get a concensus on this one.

The old Conversion Book states that protoculture doesn't fare well in areas of high PPE.

[The Beast]

Actually Zino I did. Just didn't really care about their version which is tech oriented. I'll stick to those rules on Proto culture fold systems being very likely to malfunction. I don't think well get a concensus on this one.

The old Conversion Book states that protoculture doesn't fare well in areas of high PPE.

No, it states the Flower of Life doesn't grow within 100 miles of a ley line. Which doesn't matter anyway since the only know place it can grow is Earth.

[Vrykolas2k]

Actually Zino I did. Just didn't really care about their version which is tech oriented. I'll stick to those rules on Proto culture fold systems being very likely to malfunction. I don't think well get a concensus on this one.

The old Conversion Book states that protoculture doesn't fare well in areas of high PPE.

No, it states the Flower of Life doesn't grow within 100 miles of a ley line. Which doesn't matter anyway since the only know place it can grow is Earth.

So there aren't many places it can grow on Earth, either.
*Shrug.*
The 3Gs have the more advanced tech, overall; the Zentraedi would have to strike hard and fast, then dig in really well, to survive.

[jaymz]

Actually Zino I did. Just didn't really care about their version which is tech oriented. I'll stick to those rules on Proto culture fold systems being very likely to malfunction. I don't think well get a concensus on this one.

The old Conversion Book states that protoculture doesn't fare well in areas of high PPE.

No, it states the Flower of Life doesn't grow within 100 miles of a ley line. Which doesn't matter anyway since the only know place it can grow is Earth.

So there aren't many places it can grow on Earth, either.
*Shrug.*
The 3Gs have the more advanced tech, overall; the Zentraedi would have to strike hard and fast, then dig in really well, to survive.

I don;t know a fleet of 5 million ship woudn;t have TOO much to fear I think....considering that mean billions of mecha to throw out as cannon fodder as well.

[taalismn]

For sheer ugliness....A Zentraedi full conversion cyborg...using BattleRam robot parts.

[The Beast]

For sheer ugliness....A Zentraedi full conversion cyborg...using BattleRam robot parts.

That's about the only thing that would fit.

[Sgt Anjay]

You know, it strikes me...Dolza's fleet is stated as 4.8 million ships. But at the exact same time, Breetai has an Imperial class fleet of 1 million. And after those two fleets throw down, we see at least one more fleet guarding the Robotech Factory Satellite.

People keep repeating it, but the number of five million total is a bit low, even for Robotech, eh?

[jaymz]

You know, it strikes me...Dolza's fleet is stated as 4.8 million ships. But at the exact same time, Breetai has an Imperial class fleet of 1 million. And after those two fleets throw down, we see at least one more fleet guarding the Robotech Factory Satellite.

People keep repeating it, but the number of five million total is a bit low, even for Robotech, eh?

ACtually my understanding, via Macross OSMs is that the fleet gaurdind the factory is 1000 or so at most. Ther is no hard material about it for Rtech though.

[Svartalf]

That is only going to affect those people who don't use Kitsune's adjusted ranges. I do as a GM, and I will never stop using them. Therefore I trump the Zentraedi in my game. And I know a lot of GM's who swear by Kitsune's material.

I'm tired of you moving the goal posts.

This is a game discussion, so we have to agree on the rules. you're advocating use of house rules. Unless everybody knows those and agrees to discuss using them, you can go home and play by yourself.

[Svartalf]

I want...

A Zentraedi CosmoKnight....

Would not be that much more powerful than a basic knight... and wouldn't benefit the Zents at all since it would go along with what the forge urges him toward.

[Svartalf]

Siembieda doesnt.

Seriously though, using non canon sources in a hypothetical situation is moot. Opinion doent matter. You have to use what is printed by Palladium otherwise it is just...pointless. Cause I can always counter with "well in my games, all Zentraedi have triple MDC, so Zentraedi obviously have stronger ships than 3G ships." Thats just pulling crap outta my hat.

Canon isn't always clear or correct, but even using canon I'd say that if ALL the phase world forces teamed up on even a Zentraedi fleet the size of Breetai's they would win. The difference between power armor technologies (Zent vs PW) is huge, the Kreeghor "super soldiers" can fight Zents one for one and win, CosmoKnights, mages, psychics all combine into a formidable force that the Zents could not effectively deal with.

yep, assuming the 3G ships can get within their weapons ranges, I agree with you. But Im betting on the Zentraedi ranges (based on hundreds of miles) beating out the Phaseworld ranges (based off of hundreds of FEET). Most 3G units would be destroyed by reflex cannons before they could even use their phase cannons or magic.

Of course being impervious to energy would help, something the Zents couldn't anticipate. But Zents have Kinetic weapons as well.

All true, that (of course) is why some of us use Kitsune's rules instead. The kinetic weapons the Zents have are limited to autocannons on the officers battlepod and their rifles (I think). The power armor in Phase world is still superior to anything the Zents have, that and Naruni arms merchants would make a KILLING selling their weapons to the CCW and to the merc forces.

Oooh, point... How long would it take them to make Zent style guns available to everybody? It would completely change the face of space warfare, and destroy the Zent advantage as soon as the knockoffs became widespread.

[jaymz]

That is only going to affect those people who don't use Kitsune's adjusted ranges. I do as a GM, and I will never stop using them. Therefore I trump the Zentraedi in my game. And I know a lot of GM's who swear by Kitsune's material.

I'm tired of you moving the goal posts.

This is a game discussion, so we have to agree on the rules. you're advocating use of house rules. Unless everybody knows those and agrees to discuss using them, you can go home and play by yourself.

I never understood why peopel actually think discussing a setting verus another setting, in which there are RAW, they feel the need to say "well according THESE rules that are completely and thoruoghly unofficial in any way shape or form the resut woudl be this"....it is rediculous since the only frame of reference any and all of us in this thread can use are the RAW. NOt kitsune, not mine not yours not anyone elses house rules.

[Svartalf]

BTW, My memory is hazy, but IIRC, none of the Zent ships use force fields, and for some reason, I don't think the question of whether reflex cannons have their normal efficiency agains shielded targets ever was raised... Does somebody have any lights on that subject? (of Course, with a single Flag Ship, whose main gun can fire at most every 8 mns for every few thousands ships, I'm not sure THAT particular gun is going to be really important when every other sship mounts and will use a main laser)

[jaymz]

BTW, My memory is hazy, but IIRC, none of the Zent ships use force fields, and for some reason, I don't think the question of whether reflex cannons have their normal efficiency agains shielded targets ever was raised... Does somebody have any lights on that subject? (of Course, with a single Flag Ship, whose main gun can fire at most every 8 mns for every few thousands ships, I'm not sure THAT particular gun is going to be really important when every other sship mounts and will use a main laser)

As I recall an REF ship could overlap its Pin point Barrier (20 000mdc total) to absorb the blast but it woudl completely blow out hte shiled systems of he ship. So theoretically variosu 3g ships COULD take the hits but tht woudl oly be the first few hits.

Mind you as of the new edition of hte rtech rpg not all Zent ships have a reflex cannon (since theydidn;t have them in teh series either) i think getting pouned from triple the range of your own waposn woudl be enough of an advantgae for the Znetraedi, esepecially considering that TGE and CCW ships are not impervious to energy.

[Sgt Anjay]

You know, it strikes me...Dolza's fleet is stated as 4.8 million ships. But at the exact same time, Breetai has an Imperial class fleet of 1 million. And after those two fleets throw down, we see at least one more fleet guarding the Robotech Factory Satellite.

People keep repeating it, but the number of five million total is a bit low, even for Robotech, eh?

ACtually my understanding, via Macross OSMs is that the fleet gaurdind the factory is 1000 or so at most. Ther is no hard material about it for Rtech though.

Um...my point is that everyone is stating the full strength of the Zentraedi as five million ships.

4.8 million + 1 million + (just for the sake of argument)1,000 > 5 million.

Then there's the fact that there was more than one Factory Satellite, the likelyhood Zentraedi fleets guarded more than just Factory Satellites, etc, etc, and, well, the number of five million total is a bit low, even for Robotech, eh?

[jaymz]

You know, it strikes me...Dolza's fleet is stated as 4.8 million ships. But at the exact same time, Breetai has an Imperial class fleet of 1 million. And after those two fleets throw down, we see at least one more fleet guarding the Robotech Factory Satellite.

People keep repeating it, but the number of five million total is a bit low, even for Robotech, eh?

ACtually my understanding, via Macross OSMs is that the fleet gaurdind the factory is 1000 or so at most. Ther is no hard material about it for Rtech though.

Um...my point is that everyone is stating the full strength of the Zentraedi as five million ships.

4.8 million + 1 million + (just for the sake of argument)1,000 > 5 million.

Then there's the fact that there was more than one Factory Satellite, the likelyhood Zentraedi fleets guarded more than just Factory Satellites, etc, etc, and, well, the number of five million total is a bit low, even for Robotech, eh?

That depends, the only factory satellite ever mentioned in Robotech is the one the capture. Unless you include 1st edition RPG thent ehre is posibly two more.

But yeah if you go byt he shpow max fleet numbers would be in the 5.8-5.9 million range.

[Sgt Anjay]

If you only go by the original 85 episodes, only one Factory Satellite is shown. And the fact that a large Zentraedi fleet (not Imperial Fleet large, sure, but I'd call 1,000 ships large) guarded a Factory Satellite sort of implies that Zentraedi fleets guarded things, and shows that not all Zentraedi were with Dolza. That theoretically ups the possible total of Zentraedi.

Add in the Sentinels animation, and that's two Factory Satellites. The RPG adds at least one more, in Return of the Masters (was there another?). But it's Shadow Chronicles that multiplies the number of Fac Sats: Space Station Liberty is revealed as one, and the official art book for Shadow Chronicles says there are several more in human hands. Its impossible how many, let alone how many there once were total.



At any rate yes, I figured eight-hundred thousand Zentraedi ships at least worthy of mention in and of themselves.

[jaymz]

If you only go by the original 85 episodes, only one Factory Satellite is shown. And the fact that a large Zentraedi fleet (not Imperial Fleet large, sure, but I'd call 1,000 ships large) guarded a Factory Satellite sort of implies that Zentraedi fleets guarded things, and shows that not all Zentraedi were with Dolza. That theoretically ups the possible total of Zentraedi.

Add in the Sentinels animation, and that's two Factory Satellites. The RPG adds at least one more, in Return of the Masters (was there another?). But it's Shadow Chronicles that multiplies the number of Fac Sats: Space Station Liberty is revealed as one, and the official art book for Shadow Chronicles says there are several more in human hands. Its impossible how many, let alone how many there once were total.



At any rate yes, I figured eight-hundred thousand Zentraedi ships at least worthy of mention in and of themselves.

The Fatcory in Sentinels is supposed to be the one from the original 85 Anjay. The rPg possibly adds two (one from Return of the Masters andone fromt eh REF Field Guide).

TSC though doesn't seem to specify if these are just factory satellites thatwere zentraedi or ifthey were factory facilites that were origianlly another races (Kabbaran for example since they are known to be a ship building race).

[Sgt Anjay]

If you only go by the original 85 episodes, only one Factory Satellite is shown. And the fact that a large Zentraedi fleet (not Imperial Fleet large, sure, but I'd call 1,000 ships large) guarded a Factory Satellite sort of implies that Zentraedi fleets guarded things, and shows that not all Zentraedi were with Dolza. That theoretically ups the possible total of Zentraedi.

Add in the Sentinels animation, and that's two Factory Satellites. The RPG adds at least one more, in Return of the Masters (was there another?). But it's Shadow Chronicles that multiplies the number of Fac Sats: Space Station Liberty is revealed as one, and the official art book for Shadow Chronicles says there are several more in human hands. Its impossible how many, let alone how many there once were total.



At any rate yes, I figured eight-hundred thousand Zentraedi ships at least worthy of mention in and of themselves.

The Fatcory in Sentinels is supposed to be the one from the original 85 Anjay.

Too bad its completely different. But even if you take that one out, that's still four confirmed counting the two from the RPGs, with even more implied by the Shadow Chronicles art book.

The rPg possibly adds two (one from Return of the Masters andone fromt eh REF Field Guide).

Ah, gotcha. Haven't cracked that bad boy open in a while.

TSC though doesn't seem to specify if these are just factory satellites thatwere zentraedi or ifthey were factory facilites that were origianlly another races (Kabbaran for example since they are known to be a ship building race).

Really? You're going to arbitrarily associate a type facility that has never been associated with anything but the Tirolians and their Zentraedi just so that there aren't a few more Zentraedi guard fleets?

[jaymz]

If you only go by the original 85 episodes, only one Factory Satellite is shown. And the fact that a large Zentraedi fleet (not Imperial Fleet large, sure, but I'd call 1,000 ships large) guarded a Factory Satellite sort of implies that Zentraedi fleets guarded things, and shows that not all Zentraedi were with Dolza. That theoretically ups the possible total of Zentraedi.

Add in the Sentinels animation, and that's two Factory Satellites. The RPG adds at least one more, in Return of the Masters (was there another?). But it's Shadow Chronicles that multiplies the number of Fac Sats: Space Station Liberty is revealed as one, and the official art book for Shadow Chronicles says there are several more in human hands. Its impossible how many, let alone how many there once were total.



At any rate yes, I figured eight-hundred thousand Zentraedi ships at least worthy of mention in and of themselves.

The Fatcory in Sentinels is supposed to be the one from the original 85 Anjay.

Too bad its completely different. But even if you take that one out, that's still four confirmed counting the two from the RPGs, with even more implied by the Shadow Chronicles art book.

The rPg possibly adds two (one from Return of the Masters andone fromt eh REF Field Guide).

Ah, gotcha. Haven't cracked that bad boy open in a while.

TSC though doesn't seem to specify if these are just factory satellites thatwere zentraedi or ifthey were factory facilites that were origianlly another races (Kabbaran for example since they are known to be a ship building race).

Really? You're going to arbitrarily associate a type facility that has never been associated with anything but the Tirolians and their Zentraedi just so that there aren't a few more Zentraedi guard fleets?

You know full well WHY the one in sentinels is completely different lookingso please don't try to make it seem otherwise.

[taalismn]

Well, given that the Shadow Chronicles Factory Satellite seems to just be PERFECT for fitting the UEEF trifoil design on top, that's a LOT of remodeling...for what, though, I can't you(can't be just cosmetics...."We don't want anybody to mistake our Factory Satellite for an active Robotech Masters' complex and attack it out of hand!"). On the other hand, given the Masters' obsession with Three, a tri-lobed Factory Satellite makes a certain amount of sense, if Space Station Liberty in Shadow Chronicles was a later and more modern model acquired by the UEEF...
For disputable canon-city, The Art of Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles states that Liberty is the 'most well known of the factory satellites that were appropriated by the humans during the fall of the Tirollian Empire"...The same book depicts the hideous 'rutabaga' Factory Satellite of the Sentinels series and captions it as 'another factory satellite'...suggesting that Liberty was in addition to this ugly one...-IF-the Pioneer mission had found Liberty and in better shape than 'Rutabaga One', by virtue of its more modern systems(by Tirolian standards), they may have transferred operations to the newer station, moved it to the vicinity of Sol, and that one was the one that jumped to escape recapture by the Masters...
Or, 'Space Station Liberty' was a call-sign name that got transferred to the newer acquisition when Rutabaga-One was destroyed or depleted beyond usefulness..

As for Karbarrean Factory Satellites? I imagine the Karbarreans have some pretty impressive orbital dockyards, especially with UEEF support, but I doubt that they had or were allowed to build/possess Factory Satellites during the Masters' dominion over them...Certainly not under the Invid...Afterwards, the Karbarreans might have found and refurbished any old Factory Sat they found somehow laying about in recoverable condition(the Invid would likely nuke anything of Tirolian origin that big) or might have been gifted with one by the UEEF(maybe Rutabaga-One?), but until there's definite proof of that, it will have to remain strictly fan-fodder.

[jaymz]

Actually Taal, I am pretty sur we know the Rudabaga Satellite is supposed to be the one they capture in the Macross era and you and I both know WHy it looks different I woudl hope

If Liberty is one they further catured, then great, Ijust knwo from teh original series they captured 1 and based ont eh old RPG they could have gotten one more (since the one in Return is set AFTER TSC)

[taalismn]

Actually Taal, I am pretty sur we know the Rudabaga Satellite is supposed to be the one they capture in the Macross era and you and I both know WHy it looks different I woudl hope

If Liberty is one they further catured, then great, Ijust knwo from teh original series they captured 1 and based ont eh old RPG they could have gotten one more (since the one in Return is set AFTER TSC)

Yeah, but I can DREAM that Rutabaga-One comes to some suitable end...like consumed by giant space goats.
I just never liked the look of the thing....Admittedly the original one looked like a Russet-Burbank potato, but even with the need to make the Sentinels version look copyright-safe, I'd have liked something a bit less...well, root-vegetable-like...

[jaymz]

Actually Taal, I am pretty sur we know the Rudabaga Satellite is supposed to be the one they capture in the Macross era and you and I both know WHy it looks different I woudl hope

If Liberty is one they further catured, then great, Ijust knwo from teh original series they captured 1 and based ont eh old RPG they could have gotten one more (since the one in Return is set AFTER TSC)

Yeah, but I can DREAM that Rutabaga-One comes to some suitable end...like consumed by giant space goats.
I just never liked the look of the thing....

I didn't like how they changed Rick to be 6'6" or the fact they suddenly wear ASC uniforms

[taalismn]

I didn't like how they changed Rick to be 6'6" or the fact they suddenly wear ASC uniforms

Lisa's cargo-hook bangs....

[jaymz]

I didn't like how they changed Rick to be 6'6" or the fact they suddenly wear ASC uniforms

Lisa's cargo-hook bangs....

AND MYRIA WITH SHORT HAIR!

[taalismn]

Miriya wasn't so bad with the short hair, but she was played like a ditz, which I DID dislike.

But yeah, the belt-less skintight jumpsuits had to go....like the first Star Trek movie uniforms....

[jaymz]

Miriya wasn't so bad with the short hair, but she was played like a ditz, which I DID dislike.

But yeah, the belt-less skintight jumpsuits had to go....like the first Star Trek movie uniforms....

If anything they should have had hte uniforms of Invid Invasion....

[taalismn]

Miriya wasn't so bad with the short hair, but she was played like a ditz, which I DID dislike.

But yeah, the belt-less skintight jumpsuits had to go....like the first Star Trek movie uniforms....

If anything they should have had hte uniforms of Invid Invasion....

Again, we know the reason for that..
But hey, Look! It's a full conversion Zentraedi cyborg space marine!

[jaymz]

Miriya wasn't so bad with the short hair, but she was played like a ditz, which I DID dislike.

But yeah, the belt-less skintight jumpsuits had to go....like the first Star Trek movie uniforms....

If anything they should have had hte uniforms of Invid Invasion....

Again, we know the reason for that..
But hey, Look! It's a full conversion Zentraedi cyborg space marine!

ACtually they COUld have used teh Uniforms of Mospeada, just not macross

[Colonel Wolfe]

IDK, Phase Wolrd/ 3G tech may be old, but the Zentradie were Created 500,000 years ago in Robotech, by the Robotech Masters who had already Achieved a level of power that allowed them to Make the Zentradie via Advanced Genetic Tech.

[dante144]

how many ships can the 3gs muster?

If they can not counter in the millions with capital ships I would say they are hosed. Even if they have superior tech(I don't really know if they do), it would be a ww2 type situation.

More inferior USA and Russian tanks beat the army with fewer but superior German tanks. Same thing in the air. The Germans started out with superior everything. But the ones with more feet on the ground won.

The Russians didn't even have enough guns for all their troops! They sent them in and said "pick up the weapon of a dead comrade."

[taalismn]

how many ships can the 3gs muster?

If they can not counter in the millions with capital ships I would say they are hosed. Even if they have superior tech(I don't really know if they do), it would be a ww2 type situation.

More inferior USA and Russian tanks beat the army with fewer but superior German tanks. Same thing in the air. The Germans started out with superior everything. But the ones with more feet on the ground won.

The Russians didn't even have enough guns for all their troops! They sent them in and said "pick up the weapon of a dead comrade."

Depends...Are the Zentraedi able to make up their losses in manpower? Clone up new troops? Fully powered ships coming out of the Factory Satellites?
Otherwise, with enough different technologies coming at them from different directions, it's a matter of how much damage can the Zentraedi Grand Fleet do before they they get dragged under by guerilla starships, Cosmoknights, magic attacks, and whatnot...not IF they'll be dragged down.

[gaby]

What weapons do the Zentraedi use?

How strong is the armor?

where das the Zentraedi attack come from?

[DhAkael]

It's all in the book(s).
First edition prefferably.
But never mind...

[Jockitch74]

Have to wonder though, if the Masters themselves are in charge of a 3G command and conqure, wouldn't it be feasable for them to begin adapting to the different technologies (better armor, weapons, mech, ect)? They did it with the Invid Fighters to better fight the Invid. What if they began reverse engineering everything they come across? Considering if it's a full invasion, it's gonna take a while. Of course, not to mention who's going to want to reverse engineer the Master's stuff.

As well, alliances they might make along the way. Could see them gaining allies with the Deevils or even the Tarlok. Offer them some avanced space craft and FTL like capabilities... and they've just added a few billion more troops.

Just some thoughts.

[taalismn]

What weapons do the Zentraedi use?

How strong is the armor?

where das the Zentraedi attack come from?

Si Ego Certiorem Faciam...Mihi Tu Delendus Eris