Basic Mechanics Questions

Ley Line walkers, Juicers, Coalition Troops, Samas, Tolkeen, & The Federation Of Magic. Come together here to discuss all things Rifts®.

Moderators: Supreme Beings, Immortals, Old Ones

User avatar
Nekira Sudacne
Monk
Posts: 15691
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

Gentlemanloser wrote:Becuase it's been a very long time since we last played any Palladium games! :P And I'm not sure we used to run them properly anyway! ;)

I've a few questions about Combat rolls.

Are the rolls capped at 20? Or if you have someone with +15 Strike, and they roll a 10, is the target to Dodge/Parry 25?


Rolls are not capped at 20, never were, and nothing ever suggested such a thing. you roll a 19 to strike with +15 the target to parry/dodge is 34.

Mind, a natural 20 always hits or misses regardless of bonus's. so rolling a 20 to dodge with no bonus's still beats a 34 to strike and vice versa.

Is it only a natural 1-4 that's a miss? If you have a Strike of +4, will you never (barring modifiers!) miss again?


A natural 1 always misses regardless of bonus's. natural 2, 3, and 4 do not if you have bonus's to take it over 5. with ranged attacks, you need an 8 (with bonus's) or higher to hit. Mind, this assumes the target is not parrying or dodging and there are no other penalties.
Similarly, is it natural rolls needed to beat armour with an AR? Or do final rolls including Strike count?


Bonus's to strike count twords beating AR as well as making called shots.
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon
User avatar
mobuttu
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 1376
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:33 pm
Comment: Palladium fan from Catalonia
Location: Girona (Catalonia) - Spain
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by mobuttu »

What Nekira said.
- Un blog de Rifts. My blog about our game.
- Maqui Ed. My RPG company.

I received a *Nekira Seal of Approval*...Once! :P
"always remember; the Splugorth can do anything" - everloss
Sorry for my bad English! :o
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17782
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Gentlemanloser wrote:Are the rolls capped at 20? Or if you have someone with +15 Strike, and they roll a 10, is the target to Dodge/Parry 25?

There are no caps the modified die roll.
So if the striker had a +15 to strike and a nat die roll of 10 then the defender would have to get a total of 25 on the modified die roll or a nat 20 to dodge or parry.

Gentlemanloser wrote:Is it only a natural 1-4 that's a miss? If you have a Strike of +4, will you never (barring modifiers!) miss again?

Only on a natural 1 do the strike always miss.
If the attacker has +3 to strike, or more, they will only miss on hand to hand strikes if a nat one is rolled.
Ranged combat, in rifts, the target number is 8, I think, and if a moving target is 12.
Note: ranged and hand to hand bonuses are not combined on strikes.

Gentlemanloser wrote:Similarly, is it natural rolls needed to beat armor with an AR? Or do final rolls including Strike count?

It is not spelled out specifically in any of the books which is used, however, it is implied that you use the mod die roll.
The newer books might spell this out specifically, the only recent book that I've read w/o skimming was the pf Mysteries of Magic book.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
User avatar
dragonfett
Knight
Posts: 4193
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:39 pm
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by dragonfett »

The defender does not need a natural 20 in order to defend against an attack roll that is a modified 20+, unless the attack roll is so high that the defender's bonuses would not defend against it. Defenders natural 20 trumps all.

If you are in melee combat, then the defender will be able to parry the attacks. Keep that in mind.
Under the Pain of Death
I would Stand Alone
Against an Army of Darkness
And Horrors Unknown
User avatar
Nemo235
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:15 pm
Location: Ask my detailer.
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by Nemo235 »

1. Where does it say a roll of a natural 1 always misses?

2. Where does it say a roll of a natural 20 always dodges a non-critical strike roll?

I mean, which game and page?

I know there are varitions between some of the main rulebooks, but I don't recall those rules.
Please check out my Deviant Art gallery
and my Mutants & Magic blog.
User avatar
mobuttu
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 1376
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:33 pm
Comment: Palladium fan from Catalonia
Location: Girona (Catalonia) - Spain
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by mobuttu »

In fact I think Nemo235 is right.

- There is not stated that a natural 1 always misses. Only a roll 1-4 misses.
- A natural 20 always hits unless dodged/parried by a natural 20.
- Non-natural 20 attacks had to be beaten by non-natural 20 defenses. So there is not stated that a natural 20 defense beats all non-critical strikes.
- Un blog de Rifts. My blog about our game.
- Maqui Ed. My RPG company.

I received a *Nekira Seal of Approval*...Once! :P
"always remember; the Splugorth can do anything" - everloss
Sorry for my bad English! :o
User avatar
dragonfett
Knight
Posts: 4193
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:39 pm
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by dragonfett »

- There is not stated that a natural 1 always misses. Only a roll 1-4 misses.
- A natural 20 always hits unless dodged/parried by a natural 20.
- Non-natural 20 attacks had to be beaten by non-natural 20 defenses. So there is not stated that a natural 20 defense beats all non-critical strikes.


I could have sworn having seen it somewhere but I just can't find it at the moment, but I will still use the rule that a natural 1 always misses in my games (and every GM that I have every played Rifts with has used the same rule) for the simple fact that if a natural 20 is the perfect attack or what have you, then the natural 1 must be the worst possible attack to balance things out. In hindsight of the games that I have played in, I now realize that the non-natural 20 attack being stopped by the natural 20 was more of a house rule, so you can ignore that for canon purposes (unless there is a rule somewhere that says that it does work like that). But all of the GM's that I have ever played with have seen a natural 20 on the part of the defender as it's best possible dodge/parry/entangle or what have you.
Under the Pain of Death
I would Stand Alone
Against an Army of Darkness
And Horrors Unknown
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 28314
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

mobuttu wrote:- There is not stated that a natural 1 always misses. Only a roll 1-4 misses.


It's in RUE.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
User avatar
dragonfett
Knight
Posts: 4193
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:39 pm
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by dragonfett »

What do you mean "It's in the RUE"? If you mean where the book says that only a roll of 1-4 misses, then I think he was agreeing with you. If you were talking about the natural 1 always misses, then what page is it on? This is something I had been trying to look in to and could find answers myself and would like to know the page reference just in case I ever need to reference it for a GM. Thanks.
Under the Pain of Death
I would Stand Alone
Against an Army of Darkness
And Horrors Unknown
User avatar
Killer Cyborg
Priest
Posts: 28314
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

dragonfett wrote:If you were talking about the natural 1 always misses, then what page is it on? This is something I had been trying to look in to and could find answers myself and would like to know the page reference just in case I ever need to reference it for a GM. Thanks.


Unfortunately, I don't remember what page/passage, and I'm away from my books.
I think it was tucked away in one of the glossary type sections, if that helps.
If not, I should be back where I can access my books in a few days.
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!
User avatar
Prysus
Champion
Posts: 2607
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: Boise, ID (US)
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by Prysus »

Greetings and Salutations. With Killer Cyborg's hint, I found it on page 346 of R:UE (mine is 3rd Printing if it matters). First column under the definition of "Miss." I remember hearing it was official in R:UE, but didn't know where to look (until Killer Cyborg's last post). Hope that helps. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
Living the Fantasy (fan website)

Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)

Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
User avatar
mobuttu
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 1376
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:33 pm
Comment: Palladium fan from Catalonia
Location: Girona (Catalonia) - Spain
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by mobuttu »

dragonfett wrote:
- There is not stated that a natural 1 always misses. Only a roll 1-4 misses.
- A natural 20 always hits unless dodged/parried by a natural 20.
- Non-natural 20 attacks had to be beaten by non-natural 20 defenses. So there is not stated that a natural 20 defense beats all non-critical strikes.


I could have sworn having seen it somewhere but I just can't find it at the moment, but I will still use the rule that a natural 1 always misses in my games (and every GM that I have every played Rifts with has used the same rule) for the simple fact that if a natural 20 is the perfect attack or what have you, then the natural 1 must be the worst possible attack to balance things out. In hindsight of the games that I have played in, I now realize that the non-natural 20 attack being stopped by the natural 20 was more of a house rule, so you can ignore that for canon purposes (unless there is a rule somewhere that says that it does work like that). But all of the GM's that I have ever played with have seen a natural 20 on the part of the defender as it's best possible dodge/parry/entangle or what have you.


I also played this way. So what was my suprise when a saw it!
- Un blog de Rifts. My blog about our game.
- Maqui Ed. My RPG company.

I received a *Nekira Seal of Approval*...Once! :P
"always remember; the Splugorth can do anything" - everloss
Sorry for my bad English! :o
User avatar
mobuttu
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 1376
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:33 pm
Comment: Palladium fan from Catalonia
Location: Girona (Catalonia) - Spain
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by mobuttu »

Prysus wrote:
Greetings and Salutations. With Killer Cyborg's hint, I found it on page 346 of R:UE (mine is 3rd Printing if it matters). First column under the definition of "Miss." I remember hearing it was official in R:UE, but didn't know where to look (until Killer Cyborg's last post). Hope that helps. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.


I stand corrected. Thanks KC for remembering and Prysus for checking it. :D
- Un blog de Rifts. My blog about our game.
- Maqui Ed. My RPG company.

I received a *Nekira Seal of Approval*...Once! :P
"always remember; the Splugorth can do anything" - everloss
Sorry for my bad English! :o
User avatar
dragonfett
Knight
Posts: 4193
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:39 pm
Contact:

Re: Basic Mechanics Questions

Unread post by dragonfett »

The entry is so short that it's real easy to miss.
Under the Pain of Death
I would Stand Alone
Against an Army of Darkness
And Horrors Unknown
Post Reply

Return to “Rifts®”