Your opinion on the GB's pylons

[glitterboy2098]

actually the forcefeedback would be pretty much mandatory for powered armor. otherwise you'd never be able to have manual dexterity when using the suits hands.

as for redundant methods..that is also becoming fairly common for military units. alot of military computer systems nowadays use both keyboard, touchscreen, and voice control options. it lets the user pick the one they're best with, as well as multitask better. it also serves as a redundancy in event of a problem. a driver might get corrupted, taking out the voice control. or a wire might get cut, taking out the keyboard, or a pressure sensor might break, taking out the touchscreen....but very rarely would all three happen at once. any two occur though, and the unit is still functional.

redundant construction, with multiple backups and such are also used where possible, but they alone aren't sufficent to reduce the risk of one problem causing a unit to be non-functional.

[Zer0 Kay]

actually the forcefeedback would be pretty much mandatory for powered armor. otherwise you'd never be able to have manual dexterity when using the suits hands.

as for redundant methods..that is also becoming fairly common for military units. alot of military computer systems nowadays use both keyboard, touchscreen, and voice control options. it lets the user pick the one they're best with, as well as multitask better. it also serves as a redundancy in event of a problem. a driver might get corrupted, taking out the voice control. or a wire might get cut, taking out the keyboard, or a pressure sensor might break, taking out the touchscreen....but very rarely would all three happen at once. any two occur though, and the unit is still functional.

redundant construction, with multiple backups and such are also used where possible, but they alone aren't sufficent to reduce the risk of one problem causing a unit to be non-functional.

Name a vehicle that does that? Heck the A-10 is the most hearty aircraft and that just has tripple redundancies, no multi-pathing.

[glitterboy2098]

actually the forcefeedback would be pretty much mandatory for powered armor. otherwise you'd never be able to have manual dexterity when using the suits hands.

as for redundant methods..that is also becoming fairly common for military units. alot of military computer systems nowadays use both keyboard, touchscreen, and voice control options. it lets the user pick the one they're best with, as well as multitask better. it also serves as a redundancy in event of a problem. a driver might get corrupted, taking out the voice control. or a wire might get cut, taking out the keyboard, or a pressure sensor might break, taking out the touchscreen....but very rarely would all three happen at once. any two occur though, and the unit is still functional.

redundant construction, with multiple backups and such are also used where possible, but they alone aren't sufficent to reduce the risk of one problem causing a unit to be non-functional.

Name a vehicle that does that? Heck the A-10 is the most hearty aircraft and that just has tripple redundancies, no multi-pathing.

and the A-10 was built in the 70's, and last got an update in the 80's.

but look at the F-22. voice controls, multifunction displays..
or the proposed M1A2 upgrades. the electronics get a sweet overhaul to multi-pathing functionality.
look at modern submarines. voice, touchscreen, and keypads..
lkewise look at the FCS plans, even the ones still on the books. the military has been moving away from analog tech and single interface controls for two decades now.

on a suit of powered armor, you'd need multiple interface options. you'd need forcefeedback to let the user move the suit fluidly, intergrating it into some control interface systems wouldn't be much more than a software addition. you'd need video and audio indicators on the HUD, and eye tracking for targeting on missiles and such. adding interactive menu options to the HUD is again, just a software addition. voice controls would already be availabe for radio control, and adding voice recognition software to access other features is a purely software addition.

and with all those options, your capabilities increase. think about it. the PA trooper could be running across the battlefeild while firing his rifle, his ammo status and aim point plotted on his HUD. with a glance and a blink, he can select missiles, target them, and fire them without breaking a stride, or while ducking behind cover. or activate his ECM, or change vision modes. with a quick verbal order, he can tell the suit to reroute to backup systems on damaged components, while continuing to run, fight, and avoid taking damage. or activate ECm, or switch vision modes.

without all three options being available, he'd have to spend more time, possibly even pausing to access a control, wasting valuable time and potentially getting killed due to reduced reaction time.

[glitterboy2098]

actually, more "heinlein flashy" than iron man. what i've described is only a slight improvement over the powered suits from starship troopers. "iron man" flashy would add automatic translation features and text recognition...just like the CS's trooper support module, standard on all CWC suits of EBA...

What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

10 meters per second average, with a maximum of about 13 to 14 meters a second.

[Danger]

What's the point... well if it is the boom that throws the GB back then the pylons and thrusters aren't needed in space... because there is no boom. In space no one can hear you boom

You're being serious? That's what this endless argument is about? Glitterboys in Space? Excuse me a moment...

[Zer0 Kay]

What's the point... well if it is the boom that throws the GB back then the pylons and thrusters aren't needed in space... because there is no boom. In space no one can hear you boom

You're being serious? That's what this endless argument is about? Glitterboys in Space? Excuse me a moment...

No that wasn't the point, I'm glad you thought it was funny though since I did add in that little play on Alien sentence at the end. There is no point, I just wanted to know everyones opinions.

[Zer0 Kay]

actually the forcefeedback would be pretty much mandatory for powered armor. otherwise you'd never be able to have manual dexterity when using the suits hands.

as for redundant methods..that is also becoming fairly common for military units. alot of military computer systems nowadays use both keyboard, touchscreen, and voice control options. it lets the user pick the one they're best with, as well as multitask better. it also serves as a redundancy in event of a problem. a driver might get corrupted, taking out the voice control. or a wire might get cut, taking out the keyboard, or a pressure sensor might break, taking out the touchscreen....but very rarely would all three happen at once. any two occur though, and the unit is still functional.

redundant construction, with multiple backups and such are also used where possible, but they alone aren't sufficent to reduce the risk of one problem causing a unit to be non-functional.

Name a vehicle that does that? Heck the A-10 is the most hearty aircraft and that just has tripple redundancies, no multi-pathing.

and the A-10 was built in the 70's, and last got an update in the 80's.

but look at the F-22. voice controls, multifunction displays..
or the proposed M1A2 upgrades. the electronics get a sweet overhaul to multi-pathing functionality.
look at modern submarines. voice, touchscreen, and keypads..
lkewise look at the FCS plans, even the ones still on the books. the military has been moving away from analog tech and single interface controls for two decades now.

on a suit of powered armor, you'd need multiple interface options. you'd need forcefeedback to let the user move the suit fluidly, intergrating it into some control interface systems wouldn't be much more than a software addition. you'd need video and audio indicators on the HUD, and eye tracking for targeting on missiles and such. adding interactive menu options to the HUD is again, just a software addition. voice controls would already be availabe for radio control, and adding voice recognition software to access other features is a purely software addition.

and with all those options, your capabilities increase. think about it. the PA trooper could be running across the battlefeild while firing his rifle, his ammo status and aim point plotted on his HUD. with a glance and a blink, he can select missiles, target them, and fire them without breaking a stride, or while ducking behind cover. or activate his ECM, or change vision modes. with a quick verbal order, he can tell the suit to reroute to backup systems on damaged components, while continuing to run, fight, and avoid taking damage. or activate ECm, or switch vision modes.

without all three options being available, he'd have to spend more time, possibly even pausing to access a control, wasting valuable time and potentially getting killed due to reduced reaction time.

F-22 Voice controlls do not control... control surfaces. Multi-Function Displays??? Really, your counting that as one of the things? The F-4 Phantoms had multi-Function displays... they still don't control, control surfaces. Can't say I know much about the tank upgrades or the subs. But on both I'm pretty sure that 1) only the gunner on a tank has control of the targetting and firing of the gun, only the driver can drive the tank with a steering yoke (what was the last tank that used sticks?) and 2) that a subs control surfaces and engine are still only controllable from the pilot/driver/whatever they call the person who actually adjusts the subs heading and speed and that the yoke and throttle are still the only methods of control. How does force feedback aid in moving the suit fluidly? All force feedback give you is simulated resistance to give you an idea of what is happening. That is like saying that the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds can't do what they do because the fighters are fly by wire and only have a set tension in the stick (translation those movies where you see a guy going down out of control and he's yanking back on the stick with all his might to pull the fighter out of the dive... doesn't happen, unless the aircraft is a fly by cable which is direcly tied to the control surfaces). Fluidity will happen or not reguardless of force feedback. Force feedback is more than just software there has to be actuators that can apply some sort of force inside the machine in direct contact with you... otherwise it isn't feedback. Agree on the need for HUD accept again it isn't just a software addition. The HUD would first have to be wired into whatever system and saying it is just a software mod is like saying that the Avionics for the F-16 is just a software mod onto the computer that is already in there for the FCS and radar. The Avionics are a completely seperate computer system. So unless it is linked and can support the system and processing requirements just adding a menu to the HUD isn't going to do much. After that, yeah he would need it for all that stuff.

Now about reduced reaction time... is it easier to just pull the freaking trigger and the pylons are deployed before the round is accelerated and then automatically retracting once you started to move your foot with three routes between trigger and pylon and each foot and pylon. Or would it be better to have one line from each of those and one from your voice command where if you have to use that means that your trigger is gone, your arm is gone or your leg is gone in which case you don't have to worry about the pylon deploying anyway, plus if your off with the voice command to deploy... it sucks to be you? Now I can understand have a voice command to dissable pylon and or thruster safety protocols so that the gun can be fired without them. Would it be better to have a partial trigger pull where you better remember to release before you move or try to dodge?

The only reason to have force feed back is in the hands so you know the equivalent pressure your putting on something... but it isn't necessary because the controlls for the hands should only have the hands closing as far as you close your hands or you should be able to get used to it so you can approximate... this however lends itself to accidental damage of machinery and personnel. So I would thing they have the actuators for forcefeedback in PAs that apply mild pressure (if using gloves) or mild tension (if using some sort of cable system) when first contact with an object is made and a little more when approaching the standard squishy damage point so that you don't harm someone your trying to help, but then it would release after that because most people wouldn't want to know when it is rending flesh or crushing bone, at that point they just want the tool to do its job (and it would only be able to give set levels for given pressure levels rather than an actual sense of touch).

[Zer0 Kay]

Isn't the ability to accurately use and manipulate the armor so that one does not inflict accidental injury to themselves or others the reason their is a skill for piloting robots and power armors. Furthermore, is it not also the reason for the elite combat skill emphasizing the expert control over a particular suits ability? I suppose this is my suggestion against the force feedback concept. But regardless, a HUD is required as the pilot will not have access to various screens delivering vital data on the suits systems. In addition Voice Command would need to be there as the operator would not be able to regulate everything from manual controls as his hands would be busy holding rail guns or energy rifles. Just my thoughts...

Yes, yes and yes. I'm not arguing that all of the components are not there I'm arguing that all of those components would not be linked into the pylons as three different ways to deploy and retract the pylons. It is less expensive, just as durrable and more intuitive to have the pylons initiated by trigger pull but retracted by foot lift. But I also see a necessity for a verbal command to remove the safety so the GB CAN fire with the pylons not deployed or otherwise dissabled. Also don't forget that manual controls don't just mean hand even though the base elements of the word do. Manual could mean pedals operated by foot or one by tongue.

[keir451]

I voted that the pylons deploy before the gun is fired, according to the text on pg 222 of the RMB (original RPG);

Anti-sway pylons and toehooks are activated just before the gun is to be fired. Gun will not fire if pylons (one-each leg) are not activated. pylons and toe hooks are initiated through hydraulics.

So according to canon material, plus the basic stantards of physics (equal and opposite reactions). If the books says they deploy "just before the gun is fired" then they deploy "just before the gun is fired", no ifs, ands, or buts.
Can we stop arguing this now? Please?

[Zer0 Kay]

Isn't the ability to accurately use and manipulate the armor so that one does not inflict accidental injury to themselves or others the reason their is a skill for piloting robots and power armors. Furthermore, is it not also the reason for the elite combat skill emphasizing the expert control over a particular suits ability? I suppose this is my suggestion against the force feedback concept. But regardless, a HUD is required as the pilot will not have access to various screens delivering vital data on the suits systems. In addition Voice Command would need to be there as the operator would not be able to regulate everything from manual controls as his hands would be busy holding rail guns or energy rifles. Just my thoughts...

Yes, yes and yes. I'm not arguing that all of the components are not there I'm arguing that all of those components would not be linked into the pylons as three different ways to deploy and retract the pylons. It is less expensive, just as durrable and more intuitive to have the pylons initiated by trigger pull but retracted by foot lift. But I also see a necessity for a verbal command to remove the safety so the GB CAN fire with the pylons not deployed or otherwise dissabled. Also don't forget that manual controls don't just mean hand even though the base elements of the word do. Manual could mean pedals operated by foot or one by tongue.

While I see your point... and do not disagree, I just can not stop myself from laughing at the thought of the little GB water Tube in the helmet having a bite sensor for firing the boom gun... it strikes me as funny... Plus, licking the visor, oh man the inside of power armors would just be gross.

Yeah I can just imagine... Dang I liked the wrong target

[Zer0 Kay]

I voted that the pylons deploy before the gun is fired, according to the text on pg 222 of the RMB (original RPG);

Anti-sway pylons and toehooks are activated just before the gun is to be fired. Gun will not fire if pylons (one-each leg) are not activated. pylons and toe hooks are initiated through hydraulics.

So according to canon material, plus the basic stantards of physics (equal and opposite reactions). If the books says they deploy "just before the gun is fired" then they deploy "just before the gun is fired", no ifs, ands, or buts.
Can we stop arguing this now? Please?

according to the basic standards of physics. If the books says they deploy "just before the gun is fired" then they deploy "just before the gun is fired", no ifs, ands, or buts. what does physics have to do with the book actually saying something, I mean the print not the theory?

[keir451]

I voted that the pylons deploy before the gun is fired, according to the text on pg 222 of the RMB (original RPG);

Anti-sway pylons and toehooks are activated just before the gun is to be fired. Gun will not fire if pylons (one-each leg) are not activated. pylons and toe hooks are initiated through hydraulics.

So according to canon material, plus the basic stantards of physics (equal and opposite reactions). If the books says they deploy "just before the gun is fired" then they deploy "just before the gun is fired", no ifs, ands, or buts.
Can we stop arguing this now? Please?

according to the basic standards of physics. If the books says they deploy "just before the gun is fired" then they deploy "just before the gun is fired", no ifs, ands, or buts. what does physics have to do with the book actually saying something, I mean the print not the theory?

They exist because of the recoil produce by the gun (basic physics) and they deploy as stated in the book as written by the author.
The gun fires & creates the recoil, the print acknowledges this fact and then describes the recoil suppression sytem used to counter the recoil (also physics; the physics of the recoil suppression system and the physics of the writing ). The print just backs up the fact of when the pylons deploy; "just before the gun is fired".

[Zer0 Kay]

I voted that the pylons deploy before the gun is fired, according to the text on pg 222 of the RMB (original RPG);

Anti-sway pylons and toehooks are activated just before the gun is to be fired. Gun will not fire if pylons (one-each leg) are not activated. pylons and toe hooks are initiated through hydraulics.

So according to canon material, plus the basic stantards of physics (equal and opposite reactions). If the books says they deploy "just before the gun is fired" then they deploy "just before the gun is fired", no ifs, ands, or buts.
Can we stop arguing this now? Please?

according to the basic standards of physics. If the books says they deploy "just before the gun is fired" then they deploy "just before the gun is fired", no ifs, ands, or buts. what does physics have to do with the book actually saying something, I mean the print not the theory?

They exist because of the recoil produce by the gun (basic physics) and they deploy as stated in the book as written by the author.
The gun fires & creates the recoil, the print acknowledges this fact and then describes the recoil suppression sytem used to counter the recoil (also physics; the physics of the recoil suppression system and the physics of the writing ). The print just backs up the fact of when the pylons deploy; "just before the gun is fired".

Didn't mean to give you a hard time, just thought it was funny. I completely agree with you.

[keir451]

I voted that the pylons deploy before the gun is fired, according to the text on pg 222 of the RMB (original RPG);

Anti-sway pylons and toehooks are activated just before the gun is to be fired. Gun will not fire if pylons (one-each leg) are not activated. pylons and toe hooks are initiated through hydraulics.

So according to canon material, plus the basic stantards of physics (equal and opposite reactions). If the books says they deploy "just before the gun is fired" then they deploy "just before the gun is fired", no ifs, ands, or buts.
Can we stop arguing this now? Please?

according to the basic standards of physics. If the books says they deploy "just before the gun is fired" then they deploy "just before the gun is fired", no ifs, ands, or buts. what does physics have to do with the book actually saying something, I mean the print not the theory?

They exist because of the recoil produce by the gun (basic physics) and they deploy as stated in the book as written by the author.
The gun fires & creates the recoil, the print acknowledges this fact and then describes the recoil suppression sytem used to counter the recoil (also physics; the physics of the recoil suppression system and the physics of the writing ). The print just backs up the fact of when the pylons deploy; "just before the gun is fired".

Didn't mean to give you a hard time, just thought it was funny. I completely agree with you.

Heh, I was having a head scratcher there for a moment. It's funny that for all my nit picking over realism in game this is one area I never worried about.

[Zer0 Kay]

I call Rifts.

Aww, dang now none of us can use it