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Rallan wrote:

Warshield73 wrote:Looking at this thread I have to wonder if the Vampires and Mechanoids will ever come into serious conflict. Vampires almost never control whole worlds and if Mechanoids come after a world vamps are on they are they intelligence is likely to just abandon it. Defeating a space based opponent with no blood or ability to be turned just seems like work.

If the Mechanoids ever get loose in a dimension that's got supernatural beings in it, they'll come into serious conflict regularly. Or serious conflict by vampire standards anyway. They might not rule many planets, but they exist all over the damn place.

This is actually my point, they are everywhere. If the Mechanoids show up where they are they might try and fight but as soon as they see what they are up against, the vampire intelligence will just leave for safer feeding grounds and once the intel leaves, the vamps die.

As for finding vampire weaknesses, everyone seems to forget that in addition to being cyborgs and general technological juggernauts they are also psychic with incredibly high ME and IQ. Even if they do not get the information straight from the vamps the will undoubtedly get a fair bit of demon and monster lore from the locals.

Would vampire mind control work on Mechanoids? Each vamp can make 1 servant, and I think a master can make 2, could be used to glean Mechanoid-level technology one would think.

If humans could plausibly fight off Mechanoids, then vampires could too, via dominating a human civilization.

Tor wrote:Would vampire mind control work on Mechanoids?

Nope, Vampire kingdom is specific that it does not work on borgs or people viewing through optics.

Tor wrote:Each vamp can make 1 servant, and I think a master can make 2, could be used to glean Mechanoid-level technology one would think.

Again no. Borgs are immune to slow kill and even if you say the Mechanoid organism is not a true borg it could not survive outside it's body for the 3 days required before the completion of the slow kill. Most Mechanoids lack the hit points to even survive the first bite.

Tor wrote:If humans could plausibly fight off Mechanoids, then vampires could too, via dominating a human civilization.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't everyone that has ever faced the Mechanoids lost? From humans, to Kittani, to gods every mention of them is followed by a solid but kicking. The only reason they disappeared is they destroyed themselves.

Never been totally clear on the borginess of Mechs. On one hand, they get described as borgs, but on the other, they appear to be full conversion borgs who retain full use of master psionics, spitting in the eye of RMB, much less RUE which is even more restrictive.

I guess I just assumed Kev input some kind of human heroes who somehow stood a chance... lol

Tor wrote:Never been totally clear on the borginess of Mechs. On one hand, they get described as borgs, but on the other, they appear to be full conversion borgs who retain full use of master psionics, spitting in the eye of RMB, much less RUE which is even more restrictive.

There have always been exceptions to this rule. Arrak Chrome in Mercenaries is the best example. There are races with advanced cybernetics that do not interfere with psionics. Mechanoids are certainly the most advanced in that regard but not alone.

Tor wrote:I guess I just assumed Kev input some kind of human heroes who somehow stood a chance... lol

Not to speak for KS, but in the original Mechanoids game it appears to me that one of the major plot points is that you do not stand a chance against them. I have a feeling that will be different in, should it ever be released, the new Mechanoids space books.

From what I seen the mechanoids in the original trilogy took on a chump planet that wasn't ready.
And somehow this lack luster victory over an inferior opponent has turned them into the most feared things in the galaxy??? Bwahaha. Come on really next time I floor a whitebelt I'm gonna be all like I'm the scourge of the galaxy. Lol.

Against an equal or idk a worthy opponent mechanoids blow. Jussayin.

say652 wrote:From what I seen the mechanoids in the original trilogy took on a chump planet that wasn't ready.
And somehow this lack luster victory over an inferior opponent has turned them into the most feared things in the galaxy??? Bwahaha. Come on really next time I floor a whitebelt I'm gonna be all like I'm the scourge of the galaxy. Lol.

Against an equal or idk a worthy opponent mechanoids blow. Jussayin.

In the original book 1 and 2 you might be correct. However, Book 3 Homeworld describes many of their enemies, all let us say black belts or above, that they were wiping the floor with before they left.

In addition the story of the Kittani, the three lords of Magic from Federation of magic and several deities in Pantheons all describe very advanced cultures that were just overwhelmed by the Mechanoids. You're right that the Mechanoids individually are not that tough, but at the risk of quoting one of histories great monsters "quantity has a quality all its own" and it is hard to beat mechanoid quantities along with what is incredible levels of cultural unity.

Would be great if the Horde that Arrak Chrome fought was covered in a future Palladium sourcebook, perhaps tougher than Mechanoids.

Could make good allies for the Star Hives in Phase world, since the Horde wants to destroy all organic life and the Star Hives are silicon-based.

Tor wrote:Would be great if the Horde that Arrak Chrome fought was covered in a future Palladium sourcebook, perhaps tougher than Mechanoids.

Could make good allies for the Star Hives in Phase world, since the Horde wants to destroy all organic life and the Star Hives are silicon-based.

I have been dying for this since the Mercenaries book came out 20 years ago. I have used the Horde twice in my games, both times I used the Manhunters from the old Manhunter SB. However in the future I may use the robots from Splicers.

Your idea about the Star Hives is interesting, would they see them as too close to organic even though they are silicon based? I would tend to say yes but with so little information I am not sure.

If silicon is too close to carbon it begs the question of what element the Horde is based on. Are we going by proton count in the nucleus or something? Silicon has 14 protons compared to carbon's 4, although they're both in the same column of the periodic... blah, complex.

I take it at face value, Horde hates carbon-based, tolerate anyone based on other elements.

Using Manhunter is a neat idea, always liked 'dimension book 0'. TBH I only snuck a peak at the OCCs.

Going back to the vampire mind control question for a mo, I can't see it working. A vampire can only turn someone into a slave by repeatedly feeding on them, and good luck trying to repeatedly feed on a genocidal mutant supersoldier that spends its entire life locked in an armored life support unit inside a military combat robot.

Which leaves regular psionics (and magic, for vampires who were spellcasters before they turned), but that's gonna be of limited use. The mechanoids are bred for fanatical loyalty, they're psychics who communicate telepathically, and they're even crazier than Daleks when it comes to ruthlessly purging unorthodox behavior. I doubt any Mechanoid who's had his brain scrambled by a vampire would be able to pass unnoticed for very long. And if they had enough problems with mind-controlled Mechanoids they'd probably just send humungous forces of android against suspected vampire hotspots to minimise the risk.

say652 wrote:From what I seen the mechanoids in the original trilogy took on a chump planet that wasn't ready.
And somehow this lack luster victory over an inferior opponent has turned them into the most feared things in the galaxy??? Bwahaha. Come on really next time I floor a whitebelt I'm gonna be all like I'm the scourge of the galaxy. Lol.

Against an equal or idk a worthy opponent mechanoids blow. Jussayin.

You haven't seen enough of the original trilogy, apparently.
Gideon E was just one of their snacks.

Grand Marshal Lazareal wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:Nice analysis!


The only thing I disagree with is #6.
Vamps are harmed by sunlight for magical reasons, not chemical or physical.
It has to be actual light from the actual sun.

I never thought about it that way before. But if it isn't a chemical or physical reaction to the light, What is it? Sunlight in and of itself I doubt is magical. So does it say why light would effect vampires?

(It's been several years since I've read vampire kingdoms)

Actually, with Fleets of the three galaxies we have a cannonical answer that Sunlight, as opposed to other sources of light, DOES inherently have supernatural properties apart from regular light. We learn this in the Dominator section where it says that cosmic energy shares the supernatural properties of true sunlight without actually being true sunlight. And of course, it couldn't copy the magical properties of sunlight without sunlight having magical properties to compare it to.

And no, Mechanoids don't have Cosmic Energy weapons, that's still a Dominator monopoly for the tech on that.

Tor wrote:Never been totally clear on the borginess of Mechs. On one hand, they get described as borgs, but on the other, they appear to be full conversion borgs who retain full use of master psionics, spitting in the eye of RMB, much less RUE which is even more restrictive.

Actually, the Coalition already has a Full conversion borg prototype that retained full Mind Melter powers. The NPC is in Vampire Kingdoms the origional, just 1 book after RMB (I think he's in revised Vampire kingdoms but i'm not sure). The Cyborg escaped, but there's no reason the CS can't keep experimenting on new subjects to make it reliable.

Ah true, page 135, The Amazing Doctor Gray Matter, Coalition Experimental Psi-Borg, a full conversion borg with master psionics. He has 2 super psionic powers but I don't think he was a Mind Melter, more like epic MOM implants gave him some stuff. I gotta stop forgetting that guy.

Vampires would tend to stay out of mortal-wars because, well, they are not their concerned; they don't care which prince rules, just that there are peasants to feed from. The Mechanoids are a serious threat and the vampires would join the humans to protect their food-source.