Will the Republic of Japan make a Navy?

[gaby]

They been on Rifts earth since 87.p.a. thats 22 years.

I think some one must have thought of a Navy by Now.
They need some thing to Protect ther Coast line.

What do you think, is it some thing we may see in a futur Rifter?

[Jack Daniels]

They been on Rifts earth since 87.p.a. thats 22 years.

I think some one must have thought of a Navy by Now.
They need some thing to Protect ther Coast line.

Having just recently devoted a good deal of thought to Rifts Japan, I don't think the Republic of Japan needs a Navy all that much. A Navy, in the capital "N" sense, is used to project power overseas and to provide security for overseas possessions. What you seem to be asking for is a Coast Guard, which is a navy in the lowercase "n" sense. It is implied in the book that they have some naval vessels but that they are focused on land and close air support forces instead.

[Guest]

A coast guard, possibly, a navy, not likely. Contrary to popular belief, Japan doesn't have a great history as a naval power.

[Nekira Sudacne]

depends on wrather or not they've changed their consitiution sinse modern day. sinse they're transplanted from the Golden Age, it's quite possible they're still limiting themselves to a self-defence force.

of course if they choose to change no one's around to complain...

but sinse they said that the laws in Japan are basically modern japanese laws with new ones added to cover stuff like MDC weaponry and cybernetics/bionics.


Conceqently I belive that they will still limit themselves to a self defence force, at least until the Oni hoards are wiped out, as actually changing things at the current time serves no immediate benifit.

[cornholioprime]

Considering that prior to the coming of the Rifts Japan had a history of naval power, it seems very likely that they will continue the tradition and make a new navy.
There is much to be gained for them in creating one. Japan consists of many islands not just one, a navy would be required to ship large amounts of heavy good between them. Air transport can only handle so much. The vast ocean also offers an abundant source of food and resources. Under water mining and drilling, fishing, trade with other nations. All these things would need protection in the dangerous oceans of Rifts Earth.

As for us seeing it(if ever), it would almost certainly be in the form of a Rifter. It's been years since the Japan book came out and not even a hint of a new one. Just look at Australia, some fans have been waiting for years to see Australia 2 and 3 and still nothing.

If a official book were to be made it would most likely by in the form a "Pacific Ocean source book". Covering the New Navy, Japan, Australia and any other places of note in that area. The book would focus on their sea assests and intertests of course.

I myself am working on a Rifter submission for Rifts Hawaii. Part of it was going to address trade between Japan and Hawaii. Not exactly what you are looking for I think but better then nothing.

You know, that's not a bad idea.

Like Rifts: Aftermath, just make an Area Sourcebook.

That should feed us for a while......

[cornholioprime]

A coast guard, possibly, a navy, not likely. Contrary to popular belief, Japan doesn't have a great history as a naval power.

Yeah.

Except for World War II, I can't remember the Japanese Armada or any such equivalent in World History at all.....

[Defender_X]

For quick ship stats, decide what type of ships the Republic of Japan would use or need, then use the MD stats for generic warships from Underseas. That should handle it for the most part till something official comes down the line.

[Toc Rat]

A coast guard, possibly, a navy, not likely. Contrary to popular belief, Japan doesn't have a great history as a naval power.

Yeah.

Except for World War II, I can't remember the Japanese Armada or any such equivalent in World History at all.....

You're forgetting about the Japanese Navy basicly sinking the entire Russian pacific fleet between 1904 and 1905. Here is a short over view of the period:Russo-Japanese Battle of the Sea

The Russo-Japanese War began with the surprise attack of the Russian Port Arthur (Lüshun) Fleet by the Japanese Navy in Feburary, 1904. Then, there was the Battle of Yellow Sea in August. After that, the Japanese Navy gained a decisive victory over Russia in the Battle of Tsusima in May, 1905, which finally resulted in the conclusion of the Peace Treaty between Japan and Russia in October, 1905.



The operation plan of the Japanese Navy was, first, to destroy the Russian Pacific Fleet quickly by means of surprise attack and the defeat in detail of the enemy’s dispersed force and then, to be sure of the security of the sea-lanes between Japan and the Korean Peninsula as well as in the surrounding area, to intercept and destroy the Baltic Fleet which was detached from the Russian mainland. Since the end of the Sino-Japanese War, though the strategy against Russia had been worked out, with more warships built and naval training strengthened over the period of 10 years.

You can see how they followed a similar strategy against the United States during WWII. Build up of forces, surprise attack, elimination of remaining enemy sea forces, all for the end goal of forcing a peace treaty on favorable terms. Thankfully(for the US) Japan failed to achive it's goal of eliminating the US's carrier or submarine fleet. Because of that failure(and the industrial might of the US) Japan could never accomplish that feat and ultimately lost the war.

The point though, is that Japan was a major naval power prior to WWII.

[Toc Rat]

You know, that's not a bad idea.

Like Rifts: Aftermath, just make an Area Sourcebook.

That should feed us for a while......

Thanks

[Kelorin]

IIRC, There has already been flavor text indicating the existence of a new, but expanding Japanese Navy. It appears, in fact before Rifts:Japan, in Rifts:Underseas under relationships with other factions for the New Navy.

I believe it states that the New Navy has intercepted radio transmissions from the Japanese isles, and has had sightings of Japanese naval vessels, and that a meeting between these power is ultimately inevitable.

Anyone have Underseas handy to check this one for me?

[Jefffar]

A navy? Yeap.

Will it be bigger and badder than coastal patrol frigates and maybe a couple of destroyers - not sure.

As for the naval History of Japan, other than the period from about 1900 to 1945 the Japanese Navy really didn't do anything that anybody noticed.

In that period they did their best to copy the British navy and created a truely formidibale force - until they went up against a power that could not only rebuild their damaged and destroyed vessels, but actively expand their fleet several times over in the course of only 4 years of warfare while any Japanese ship damaged or destroyed was not replaced.

[gaby]

Here is how I see it.

To get to the Zone the RofJ,s Army must pass through the New Empire,some thing that will unbalance the Current Comfortable level/non-interfering thing they have with the New Empire.

Just like the NGR, they see that a Navy have a potential to help them Defeated the Oni.

Attacks from the Sea on both sides of the Zone can take them Suprise!

If you have any ideas for Japanese,s ships show them here.

[Gomen_Nagai]

actually I see alot of hover barges Like those that appeared in Rifts china in a Japanese navy... And I see a more open development between Japan, Tritonia, and the New Navy... Simply cause the Lord of the Deep is just so active near japan.

[Jefffar]

Agreed, a navy would be of use to Japan.

As for ideas for their ships, I imagine they would use a mix of frigates, destroyers

Agreed

cruisers and carriers.

Hold your horses there. There's no indication that Japan will have anythign like that ready to roll at that time (they haven't anythign larger than a destroyer now). Even if they did, they would ahev to be available at the time of the cataclysm at Hiroshima to be there allready, otherwise the RofJ is forced to develop those systems on their own

which takes time, meaning that the cruiser and acarrier shouldn't be imemdiately available.

Also, a carrier is useless without high performance aircraft - no sign of those yet either - more development time.

Finally, the strategic option youa re proposing will need amphibious warfare ships. I do know the Japanese ave them now, mostly for quickly moving troops around the various islands. In this case i vote for hovercraft of medium and large size, well suited to moving robots and glitterboys. A few of your proposed cruisers would be kitted out to serve as fire support.

But again, it will take a bit of time to develop.

[Toc Rat]

cruisers and carriers.

Hold your horses there. There's no indication that Japan will have anythign like that ready to roll at that time (they haven't anythign larger than a destroyer now). Even if they did, they would ahev to be available at the time of the cataclysm at Hiroshima to be there allready, otherwise the RofJ is forced to develop those systems on their own
which takes time, meaning that the cruiser and acarrier shouldn't be imemdiately available.

Also, a carrier is useless without high performance aircraft - no sign of those yet either - more development time.

Finally, the strategic option youa re proposing will need amphibious warfare ships. I do know the Japanese ave them now, mostly for quickly moving troops around the various islands. In this case i vote for hovercraft of medium and large size, well suited to moving robots and glitterboys. A few of your proposed cruisers would be kitted out to serve as fire support.

But again, it will take a bit of time to develop.

Just becuase they do not have carriers now doesn't mean they can't develope them. Being a strong ally of the odl American Empire, it is likely that they would have extensive knowledge on the basics of the american designed carriers and be able to produce their own given suffcient time. A second thign to consider is that the "Golden Age" does not refer to right now. It takes place in our future. Remember it says that a period of rapid super technological developement occured prior to a big war that eventually lead to the coming of the rifts. We're not there yet. Prior to that war, a great build up of military forces happened across the planet. Who's to say the old American Empire didn't increase the presence of it's navy in Japanese waters? Build more bases? The Us already has marine bases in okinawa. Therefor it is concievable that rifts Japan could find and restore older carriers and cruisers to active service. Much like the CS and Golden Age Weaponsmiths have in North America.

As for high performance aircraft, the same reasoning applies. Japan could either find and reverse engineer such designs or simply create ones of their own using the vast amount of pre-rifts information at their disposal.

For the immediate future though, I agree that the kind of super carriers the Us navy used will be in the developement and production stages only. Actual deployment will take a bit, say 5 years from 105 PA. In the mean time however, there is nothing stopping them from deploying "pocket" carriers to fill their needs. It would be nothing really like a traditional carrier. They could design and rapidly produce a much smaller ship for the express purpose of carrying large amounts of SAMAS. Such a ship would have no need of catapult systems, elevators, tow hook cables, etc. Much simpler and therefor cheaper, easyer and faster to build. Remember for many decades, the SAMAS was the Coalitions only fighter type aircraft besides the skycycles. This proves that they can fill the role very well until they develope the super carriers and high performance aricraft for them in number.

[Blight]

there is nothing stopping them from deploying "pocket" carriers to fill their needs. It would be nothing really like a traditional carrier. They could design and rapidly produce a much smaller ship for the express purpose of carrying large amounts of SAMAS. Such a ship would have no need of catapult systems, elevators, tow hook cables, etc. Much simpler and therefor cheaper, easyer and faster to build.

I love this idea, and I think I'll design one for the CS as a quick replacement for all the ships they lost to FQ.

[Jefffar]

My point entirely was that a carrier wouldn't be ready immediately for the RofJ navy.

A pocket carrier for use as a stop gap during development maybe.

A former soviet style Aviation Cruiser might be clsoer to what they create than a true Aircraft Carrier circa 110 or 115 or so.

[devillin]

Also, a carrier is useless without high performance aircraft - no sign of those yet either - more development time.
But again, it will take a bit of time to develop.

As for high performance aircraft, the same reasoning applies. Japan could either find and reverse engineer such designs or simply create ones of their own using the vast amount of pre-rifts information at their disposal.

Actually, if the current Japanese airforce is any indicator of things to come, the pre-Rifts Japan could very well have fielded Japanese versions of American aircraft. A good modern example of this is the F-16J that Japan makes that is slightly faster and more manueverable than the American F-16s. I could very well see the pre-Rifts Japan fielding their own version of the Iron Eagle ((?) the collapsible pre-Rifts jet from Mercenaries) and other US fighters from the Golden Age.

Linwood

[Kelorin]

Also, a carrier is useless without high performance aircraft - no sign of those yet either - more development time.
But again, it will take a bit of time to develop.

As for high performance aircraft, the same reasoning applies. Japan could either find and reverse engineer such designs or simply create ones of their own using the vast amount of pre-rifts information at their disposal.

Actually, if the current Japanese airforce is any indicator of things to come, the pre-Rifts Japan could very well have fielded Japanese versions of American aircraft. A good modern example of this is the F-16J that Japan makes that is slightly faster and more manueverable than the American F-16s. I could very well see the pre-Rifts Japan fielding their own version of the Iron Eagle ((?) the collapsible pre-Rifts jet from Mercenaries) and other US fighters from the Golden Age.

Linwood

Isn't the Iron Eagle the attack helo from Mercenaries? I think you mean the Grey Falcon, which incidentally isn't an American design. It's Swedish:

http://www.scramble.nl/viggen.htm

[Thinyser]

They been on Rifts earth since 87.p.a. thats 22 years.

I think some one must have thought of a Navy by Now.
They need some thing to Protect ther Coast line.

What do you think, is it some thing we may see in a futur Rifter?

Quite possibly, the have a pst history of Naval Superiority

True and they are an island after all I would damn well hope they would have a navy.

[Larsen]

great now the image of ninjas fighting pirates is stuck in my head. thanks gaby.

[Toc Rat]

:lol: great now the image of ninjas fighting pirates is stuck in my head. thanks gaby.

Ever see a film called "The Pirate Movie"?

[Larsen]

:lol: great now the image of ninjas fighting pirates is stuck in my head. thanks gaby.

Ever see a film called "The Pirate Movie"?

no but now Im gonna google it.

[devillin]

Actually, if the current Japanese airforce is any indicator of things to come, the pre-Rifts Japan could very well have fielded Japanese versions of American aircraft. A good modern example of this is the F-16J that Japan makes that is slightly faster and more manueverable than the American F-16s. I could very well see the pre-Rifts Japan fielding their own version of the Iron Eagle ((?) the collapsible pre-Rifts jet from Mercenaries) and other US fighters from the Golden Age.

Linwood

Isn't the Iron Eagle the attack helo from Mercenaries? I think you mean the Grey Falcon, which incidentally isn't an American design. It's Swedish:

http://www.scramble.nl/viggen.htm

While it may be based (IRL) on the Viggen, in the game the Grey Falcon is a Golden Age American designed fighter aircraft. I'm basing this on two things: 1) Mercenaries was set primarily in America, and everything in the book refers to things in America; and 2) the other designs from Iron Heart (including the tanks) are described as being pre-Rifts Golden Age designs, so it stands to reason that the Grey Falcon is also a Golden Age American design.

Linwood

[SirTenzan]

Isn't the Iron Eagle the attack helo from Mercenaries? I think you mean the Grey Falcon, which incidentally isn't an American design. It's Swedish

Well I'll be, you're right! It is a Viggen! Here I thought it was a Kfir with a few differences. Looking at it now, in comparison to the Viggen, you're right! You just saved me a LOT of scratchbuilding on my Grey Falcon model! Thanks! Now ... all I need to do is see if I can sell this Kfir model off and pick up a decent kit of the Viggen.

[SirTenzan]

Japan is extremely limited in natural resources. As a result of their high tech societies locating new sources of mineral wealth would be near the top of their list for things to do, so to speak. Trade is definitely an option. As I recall one of the affiliates of the Republic of Japan has access to an uninhabited dimension that has vast mineral wealth, BUT sources they can call their own would also be on their shopping list. They would also seek to build a navy to protect themselves from foreign invasion, both human and inhuman. The Horune are an issue, as is the Lord of the Deep. The New Navy, while human, may be seen as a competetor for the mineral resources they seek to secure. A navy would also be useful in their war against the Oni. As China is positively swarming with demons, they may see the possibility of reinforcements coming from the mainland for their enemies as a serious threat. The best way to defend against that is again - a navy. Will we see a navy in the RIFTS books? Maybe. IF we see any new Japan stuff at all.

I myself would be happy to write up details on a Republic of Japan or even Empire of Japan Navy. For the Republic I would say that their navy would consist largely of submersible types. Stealth technology is costly - diving with a rubberized sound absorbing sort of coating is much cheaper.

I could easily see a light patrol boat type that is submersible, similar to the CS Barracuda. That type would be quite numerous. I could also see a dozen or so submersible patrol ships, with perhaps a quartet of submersible destroyers or even light cruisers as flag ships. IF they had submersible carriers I think that they would be small, carrying maybe as few as a half dozen to as many as two dozen multi-use fighter aircraft. Considering the dangers from aquatic oni, however, I think they would also have weapons to bring to bear even under the hulls.

[Gomen_Nagai]

actually The Republic of japan has extensive trade with one of the island kingdoms has an ENTIRE WORLD to exploit unmolested ( so far ) for resources. ... Should that island and the link to that world go away, Things will get bad with japan.

[SirTenzan]

actually The Republic of japan has extensive trade with one of the island kingdoms has an ENTIRE WORLD to exploit unmolested ( so far ) for resources. ... Should that island and the link to that world go away, Things will get bad with japan.

I mentioned that they are affiliated with a world power that has access to the natural resources of an entire world. In political terms this makes the Republic of Japan completely subservient to it's source of raw mineral wealth, which in this case is Takamatsu. While matters between these two powers is warm and friendly, in time, that is liable to fall apart. No nation likes to be bent over that proverbial barrel when the time comes. Take Japan as an example. Prior to World War II, the Japanese were entirely reliant upon foreign oil. When they fell under embargo of oil trade, however, they were forced into war, because they had NO other options for attaining oil. They only had so much of it stockpiled, you see.

The same is true for the Republic of Japan. Right now, things are cozy between these neighbors, and they may remain that way for a long time. BUT they would want to be less reliant upon them so that the opportunity does not arise for exploitation later down the line.

Meanwhile mentioning that Takamatsu is on a different island from the Republic, this in and of itself indicates that there is a definite need for a Republic of Japan Navy as well as a Takamatsu Navy to protect their seabound trade. Transport aircraft are okay, but for shipping millions of tons of freight, cargo ships cannot be beat for simplicity and cost.