Carpet of Adhesion

[Killer Cyborg]

Refer to this thread
viewtopic.php?t=36109

So does it matter what kind of soil/ground it's placed on. Can it be ripped up?

The book is vague enough that's it's up to the GM to decide.
Personally, I say that the ground can get ripped up.

[Dr. Doom III]

The book is vague enough that's it's up to the GM to decide.
Personally, I say that the ground can get ripped up.

In which case it would be like trying to walk or run with your legs tied together and falling, thereby getting stuck even more becomes almost a certainty.

[Killer Cyborg]

The book is vague enough that's it's up to the GM to decide.
Personally, I say that the ground can get ripped up.

In which case it would be like trying to walk or run with your legs tied together and falling, thereby getting stuck even more becomes almost a certainty.

I'm discovering that people have such different views on CoA that they have a really tough time even communicating about it.

What is it that you think I'm saying?

[Dr. Doom III]

I'm discovering that people have such different views on CoA that they have a really tough time even communicating about it.

What is it that you think I'm saying?

You're saying you can pull it up if you're strong enough.
I'm saying that the indestructible flypaper will trip you.

[Killer Cyborg]

I'm discovering that people have such different views on CoA that they have a really tough time even communicating about it.

What is it that you think I'm saying?

You're saying you can pull it up if you're strong enough.
I'm saying that the indestructible flypaper will trip you.

Actually, I'm saying that I don't take the "flypaper" thing literally.
I interpret the spell as creating a sticky zone or covering a surface with a magical stickiness... not creating an actual sheet of magical flypaper.
So all that happens when you cast it on the ground is that the ground gets sticky.

[The Beast]

So how much strength would be required to lift up the ground?

[Killer Cyborg]

So how much strength would be required to lift up the ground?

Depends on the type of ground, really.
For general grassy soil, I'd say any above-average PS could do it, but the time and effort involved would depends on the circumstances. Stuck to the middle of a sticky-zone in the middle of a field, you're kind of screwed. The force needed to pull up the soil would require more strength than is in just one leg, so you couldn't pull free easily. If you were strong enough to do it, then you've got one foot free and you end up standing on one leg in the middle of the sticky zone at best, which does you no real good. And if you lose your balance then you're really screwed.
On the other hand, a robot or supernatural creature might well be able to keep walking without much trouble depending on how strong they are and how large they are.

[filo_clarke]

I disagree. I think the "Carpet" of Adhesion speaks for itself. It turns the surface into magical flypaper. Thus while you may be able to pull the sod up from the soil, that sod is still super-sticky, and will entangle or impede the character trying to escape it.

[Thinyser]

I think it bonds the enemy to the surface. There is no lifting of the ground if the person is able to pull free and there is no bonus to pull free for being on a loose surface (such as sand), or for having a high PS.

Why? Because the spell doesn't mention any such modifiers or an degredation of the stickiness if someone does pull free.

It is a flat save with the effect that if you do save you can make it out in 2d6 melee rounds if not you are stuck for the full duration.

If the spell description had mentioned anything about "taking parts of the carpeted area with" or "you get a +2 bonus to save on such and such a surface", or had mentioned that if someone "does pull free then their footsteps are no longer sticky", I could see the lifting of the ground to be a posibility. Also no where in the spell does it mention strength as a modifier to effect how fast one can escape.

As the spell is now worded I see no indication that implies that the surface it is cast upon is able to be seperated in order to effect an escape.

Game mechanics wise it is cut and dried. Save and take 2d6 melees to free yourself, or don't save and you are stuck for the duration.

If people want to run the spell as being effected by the cohesion of the surface that it is cast on, in comparison to the PS of the stuck person that is a fine (though a very complicated) house rule....nothing more.

[cornholioprime]

I think it bonds the enemy to the surface. There is no lifting of the ground if the person is able to pull free and there is no bonus to pull free for being on a loose surface (such as sand), or for having a high PS.

Why? Because the spell doesn't mention any such modifiers or an degredation of the stickiness if someone does pull free.

It is a flat save with the effect that if you do save you can make it out in 2d6 melee rounds if not you are stuck for the full duration.

If the spell description had mentioned anything about "taking parts of the carpeted area with" or "you get a +2 bonus to save on such and such a surface", or had mentioned that if someone "does pull free then their footsteps are no longer sticky", I could see the lifting of the ground to be a posibility. Also no where in the spell does it mention strength as a modifier to effect how fast one can escape.

As the spell is now worded I see no indication that implies that the surface it is cast upon is able to be seperated in order to effect an escape.

Game mechanics wise it is cut and dried. Save and take 2d6 melees to free yourself, or don't save and you are stuck for the duration.

If people want to run the spell as being effected by the cohesion of the surface that it is cast on, in comparison to the PS of the stuck person that is a fine (though a very complicated) house rule....nothing more.

Agreed on all points.

I also believe that you are simply stuck in place if you fail your save......whether you fall victim to this Spell on a Concrete Slab, a Mud Puddle, or a Sandy Beach...........

[GhostKnight]

IMO it roots itself to reality itself. No pulling ground up.

[Killer Cyborg]

when I run it the carpet is not adhering to the ground underneath itself, it's adhering to the spot (in space) where it was created.

IMO it roots itself to reality itself. No pulling ground up.

Wouldn't that would mean that it could be cast in the air and stop incoming bullets/missiles/etc.

[cornholioprime]

when I run it the carpet is not adhering to the ground underneath itself, it's adhering to the spot (in space) where it was created.

IMO it roots itself to reality itself. No pulling ground up.

Wouldn't that would mean that it could be cast in the air and stop incoming bullets/missiles/etc.

Nah.

The Spell itself also mentions that when cast, it is put to a given surface (but I don't know if you could cast it "sideways" and pin someone to a Wall).....

[Killer Cyborg]

when I run it the carpet is not adhering to the ground underneath itself, it's adhering to the spot (in space) where it was created.

IMO it roots itself to reality itself. No pulling ground up.

Wouldn't that would mean that it could be cast in the air and stop incoming bullets/missiles/etc.

Nah.

The Spell itself also mentions that when cast, it is put to a given surface (but I don't know if you could cast it "sideways" and pin someone to a Wall).....

You could still cast it on a large sheet of paper or cardboard and hide behind that, though.

[KLM]

And this way, this critter can get ouf of the area within 2d6 melees.

[Sir_Spirit]

I wil try to find the exact book, but I believe it was a rifter....
Anyone Ina FAQ in one of the books, KS says that COH is an indestructible energy feild and that you are stuck to IT and not the ground and what not...(and thus can't break free!)

[Sir_Spirit]

Ultimately the spell is only level four - which is the main guideline - it should operate on something /vaguely/ resembling a par with others of its ilk, and indestructable fields of energy, albeit limited in their scope, don't come under this heading...

To bad that's exactly what it is.....

[Killer Cyborg]

Ultimately the spell is only level four - which is the main guideline - it should operate on something /vaguely/ resembling a par with others of its ilk, and indestructable fields of energy, albeit limited in their scope, don't come under this heading... would be cool if it did though. ^_^

Good point.

[Killer Cyborg]

Ultimately the spell is only level four - which is the main guideline - it should operate on something /vaguely/ resembling a par with others of its ilk, and indestructable fields of energy, albeit limited in their scope, don't come under this heading...

To bad that's exactly what it is.....

Let me know if you find where it says that.
Until then, I think I'll go with Korentin's logic.

[The Beast]

If anyone would ACTUALLY bother to read through the RUE version of this spell, this topic would be dead already.

It IS indestructible. It CAN hold any strength level. It CAN be cast on the ground, wall, etc. It IS Magic Super Sticky Flypaper. You CAN make a barrier, that if shaped corectly, could stop bullets and physical objects. You CAN save and get out in half the normal duration.

Well I don't own RUE so I can't do that now, can I?

[Sir_Spirit]

@Killer Cyborg&Korentin_Black:

If anyone would ACTUALLY bother to read through the RUE version of this spell, this topic would be dead already.

It IS indestructible. It CAN hold any strength level. It CAN be cast on the ground, wall, etc. It IS Magic Super Sticky Flypaper. You CAN make a barrier, that if shaped corectly, could stop bullets and physical objects. You CAN save and get out in half the normal duration.

As this nicely answer or counters all that you posted I'll just quote him.

[Killer Cyborg]

@Killer Cyborg&Korentin_Black:

If anyone would ACTUALLY bother to read through the RUE version of this spell, this topic would be dead already.

It IS indestructible. It CAN hold any strength level. It CAN be cast on the ground, wall, etc. It IS Magic Super Sticky Flypaper. You CAN make a barrier, that if shaped corectly, could stop bullets and physical objects. You CAN save and get out in half the normal duration.

As this nicely answer or counters all that you posted I'll just quote him.

Actually, it doesn't even make any sense.
The RUE version of the spell is exactly the same as previous versions of the spell, with one exception:
"Someone who Teleports away will Teleport part of the Carpet with them (just the immediate area around them) and remains stuck when they reach their new destination."

Which doesn't clear things up one bit, except to indicate that the Carpet is not actually indestructable.

[Killer Cyborg]

@Killer Cyborg&Korentin_Black:

If anyone would ACTUALLY bother to read through the RUE version of this spell, this topic would be dead already.

It IS indestructible. It CAN hold any strength level. It CAN be cast on the ground, wall, etc. It IS Magic Super Sticky Flypaper. You CAN make a barrier, that if shaped corectly, could stop bullets and physical objects. You CAN save and get out in half the normal duration.

As this nicely answer or counters all that you posted I'll just quote him.

Actually, it doesn't even make any sense.
The RUE version of the spell is exactly the same as previous versions of the spell, with one exception:
"Someone who Teleports away will Teleport part of the Carpet with them (just the immediate area around them) and remains stuck when they reach their new destination."

Which doesn't clear things up one bit, except to indicate that the Carpet is not actually indestructable.

Magic is Magic it's not Logic, it can DEFY Logic.

No, it can't.

Role playing can be like a movie, in order to enjoy it sometimes you suspend disbelief. Over analyzing and lawyering can kill RPGing(using some common sense and being realistic is not the same thing as the afore mentioned).

Role-playing can be like a movie, if something stupid or illogical enough happens, it can ruin suspension of disbelief and yank you back into reality in a bad way. Like when you see the strings holding up the UFOs. Or when the bus in Speed breaks all laws of physics and flies.

As a GM, if all your tough NPC's get caught in one CoA, send more. Send magic users with Negate Magic, Dispel Magic Barriers, Mute anything that can disrupt the spellcaster. NPC's can use this tactic as well.

If one character can mess up the game so bad for you, I got a whole list of spells, psionics and abilities that will give you nightmares.

I never said that the spell messes anything up for me, no matter how the spell is run.
I'm just pointing out what the books say, and what the most logical interpretation of the text is. You can like it or not, you can use it or not, but that doesn't change what the rules actually are.

[Killer Cyborg]

Let me break this down step by step with RUE references.

It IS indestructible. KC proved this is wrong.

It CAN hold any strength level. RUE quote "Effective against cyborgs, power armors, robots and those with Supernatural PS."

It's always said this.
The Carpet is strong enough to hold any strength level, but that does not mean that the material the carpet is bonded to is strong enough.

It CAN be cast on the ground, wall, etc. RUE quote "The carpet can be cast on a floor, table, wall, etc, or actually cast upon a person."

Never disputed this.

It IS Magic Super Sticky Flypaper. RUE quote "...super-flypaper..."

It's always said that.
The question is how literal it is. Personally, I don't think that it makes a literal sheet of flypaper. Or a literal carpet, for that matter.
And if it does make a literal carpet or sheet of flypaper, then it should be pretty easy to rip up, since carpet and flypaper aren't strong substances.

You CAN make a barrier, that if shaped corectly, could stop bullets and physical objects. RUE quote "...can alter the size and shape(without exceeding the stated limit of 200 square feet...)."
Imagine casting CoA being anchored between two trees 20 ft apart and up to 10 ft high, positioned as if it were cast on a wall. Here's your barrier vs incoming.

Again, it has always said all of this. RUE hasn't changed any of that.
I can imagine anchoring CoA that way, but I don't believe for a second that this is how the spell is supposed to work.
Besides, flypaper and carpet are not bulletproof.

You CAN save and get out in half the normal duration. This is pretty basic and not worth quoting. Read the "Saving Throw:" paragraph.

Who cares? Who even disputed that you could make a saving throw?

[Killer Cyborg]

I thought we were having a discussion on how the spell works and what the logical interpretation of it was. Apparently, you were just arguing for arguing's sake.

The rest of us were.
Then you hopped into the mix with:

If anyone would ACTUALLY bother to read through the RUE version of this spell, this topic would be dead already.

It IS indestructible. It CAN hold any strength level. It CAN be cast on the ground, wall, etc. It IS Magic Super Sticky Flypaper. You CAN make a barrier, that if shaped corectly, could stop bullets and physical objects. You CAN save and get out in half the normal duration.

Which does not seem to really be attempting to discuss things much, only to insult our intelligence and to try to shut down the topic.

Since then, I've been trying to catch you up on the following facts:
1. We have already bothered to read RUE.
2. The RUE description only has one minor difference from the previous descriptions.
3. The spell description is not particularly clear, and the topic is not dead.
4. It is NOT indesctructable.
5. It is NOT literally fly-paper.
6. There is NO indication that it can be used as a barrier, or that it can stop bullets.

[Killer Cyborg]

Try thinking outside the box and you might have more luck understanding simple concepts. Thing that aren't defined as possible are also not defined as impossible, the game designers ENCOURAGE creative use of the rules and material they present. That's something many here would do well to remember.

This is such a simple concept that most people not only remember it, they do not feel the need to bring it up.
Why waste time stating the obvious?

Sorry if you feel insulted.

That's the natural result of being insulted.

You make many absolute statements and appear to think you have a monopoly on Logic and interpretation. You also make posts where you "shut down" someone's opinion with a simple "No." response without even bothering to explain your reasoning.

True enough.

I backed up everything I said by the book or said I was wrong about something.

Your initial post did nothing of the sort. It simply implied that everybody else was too stupid or too careless to have read the rules.
Later, you restated the rules, but have shown no grasp of the fact that the rules can be read in a different way than you see them.

That seems like more than you are willing to do in many cases.

I'm always willing to explain further. If you have questions, ask them.

Maybe YOU should admit you are not an absolute authority on everything and concede a few things to others once in a while.

I have and I do.
I am NOT an absolute authority, but that does not mean that I am not right.
Take a poll of the people on the board and you will find that I have argued with pretty much everybody, and also that I have conceded arguments (or points within an argument) to nearly as many people.

Show me any reason to think that this is one of the cases where I am mistaken or misinformed, and you will join that second group.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I think the argument is getting a bit too heated.

Shadowmagic--while it's true Killer Cyborg can be a pain in the ass about taking the rules too litterally sometimes, sometimes he is right and has a good reason for his veiws. hes one of the few people on the boards that's made me conceed defeat on several subjects. and I don't often admit i'm wrong.

Killer Cyborg--I agree with shadowmagic up to a point. I think that it can't be ripped up, and your stuck when your stuck. that said, I don't think you can use it to make a barrier to stop bullets and such.

[Thinyser]

I agree with shadowmagic up to a point. I think that it can't be ripped up, and your stuck when your stuck. that said, I don't think you can use it to make a barrier to stop bullets and such.

I agree that it can't be ripped up other than teleportation taking the part you are stuck to along for the ride. I think that even though it is not stated in so many words this inability to escape is the intent behind the addition to the description in RUE. Once you touch the effected surface you are stuck and even magic wont remove you from the adhesion.

Also I feel it must be cast on a surface be that a floor, wall, table, or a being. As such it could not be strung between two trees to form a barrier and catch bullets in flight, but it could stop them from rebounding/ricocheting from the stickied surface, if the bullet failed its save.

[The Beast]

Wait a sec, if you're in the spell's effect, and you then teleport it goes with you? Why? The carpet isn't moveable is it?

[The Beast]

The victim stays stuck until the carpet spell time elapses or until the spell caster cancels the spell.

Yes it does say that. I also remember reading that some creatures can escape instantaneously. The example used a vampire turning to mist. Which means one of two things:

1 = The carpet is moveable, and therefore can be used as a shield.

2 = The carpet can't be moved, and therefore teleporting out of it to escape it can be done.

I don't remember which book, but will look for it. I want to say it was in the Q & A section of one of the Rifters but I'm not entirely sure.

[Killer Cyborg]

Magic is Magic it's not Logic, it can DEFY Logic.

Nothing defies logic. In fact we can use logic to deduce the finer points of the spell.

I don't think the CoA is an actual physical carpet. In fact I don't think there's any physical manifestation at all. In all likelyhood it's simple energy field that it enchants anything that touches it to get stuck. That would explain why even if you teleport out of it you still stick. It's not the surface that is sticky the spell just enchants anything that touches it to stick.

Wow, nice to see magic exists in your REAL world and follows the laws of physics, etc!

Magic doesn't exist in my REAL world and that's the reason why it's so interesting to me in a game context. It accomplishes affects with out conforming to the Logic of the REAL world. Hence I say it defies Logic. If something floats in the air, there must be a reason. It's lighter than air, it's fling on tiny wings, magnetically held, anti-grav...that's all Logic. Float In Air spell...now that's magic and defies Logic.

No, it doesn't.
It's held up there magically.
If the spell Float in Air defied all logic, then it would turn you into a duck or something else unpredictable.
Magic is a force, just like anything else that you listed. It has logical, predictable results.

I knew many would think stringing CoA between to trees would be a stretch, I think the same way about the idea my self but, consider some examples leading up to my conclusion that it COULD be a possibility.

1.) Can CoA be cast on a 20'x10' area? Of course.

Possible. Or possibly it can only be cast on a 20'x10' surface.

2.)Can CoA be cast on a 20'x10' area that has a small crater 5' in diameter and 2' deep? Duh, of course.

There is nothing indicating that it would cover or fill that gap.

3.)Can CoA be cast on a 20'x10' area that has a small crater 5' in diameter and 100' deep? Hmmm....if the CoA just lays over the top of the crater instead of trying to cover the surface area of the crater, it can. The book says that CoA can take the size and SHAPE defined by the caster as long as it stays within the limits of the spell.

You can use a marker to fill in an area on a piece of paper.
You can fill in an area of whatever size and shape you wish.
This does not enable you to draw in the air above, below, or next to the piece of paper.

Nothing states that CoA is affected by gravity, nothing says CoA needs to have it's total area affixed to a surface, it just needs a surface.

Carpets are affected by gravity.
So is flypaper.

The spell can be cast to affect a specific item/person or an area. What if you cast it on an object but, wish the spell to occupy the total area it can affect?

Then I'd say that you're out of luck.

[Thinyser]

Wow, nice to see magic exists in your REAL world and follows the laws of physics, etc!

What the hell are you talking about?

Since when is logic and physics the same thing? Guess what? They aren't. Magic doesn't have to follow the laws of physics, but it still has to follow simple logic.

Magic doesn't exist in my REAL world and that's the reason why it's so interesting to me in a game context. It accomplishes affects with out conforming to the Logic of the REAL world. Hence I say it defies Logic. If something floats in the air, there must be a reason. It's lighter than air, it's fling on tiny wings, magnetically held, anti-grav...that's all Logic. Float In Air spell...now that's magic and defies Logic.

You don't understand what logic is, do you?

According to The Power of Logic by C. Stephen Layman:

Logic is the study of methods for evaluating whether the premis of an argument adequately supports (or provides good evidence for) its conclusion.

or from wikipedia

Logic, from Classical Greek λόγος (logos), originally meaning the word, or what is spoken, (but coming to mean thought or reason) is most often said to be the study of arguments, although the exact definition of logic is a matter of controversy among philosophers. However the subject is grounded, the task of the logician is the same: to advance an account of valid and fallacious inference to allow one to distinguish good from bad arguments.

I do believe neither of you are using logic to demonstrate the validity of your argument.

If you want to construct a proper "logical" argument there needs to be a premise and a conclusion.

So what are your premises (statements of fact)?
And what is the conclusion (the assumption that you draw from this)?

And remember folks it is IMPOSSIBLE for a VALID argument to have a
false conclusion while its premises are true.

Now stop arguing about logic and argue about magic!

[cornholioprime]

a mage should be able to make a pit trap with a Carpet of Adhesion bottom, assuming it lasts long enough for someone to fall into it.

since you can "flypaper wrap" somebody, I don't see too much trouble with "lining the walls of a cylinder or cup" either.

Even better:

A]] Cast "Carpet of Adnesion AND whatever Spell that is that doubles duration -"Spell Doubler," I beleive.

AT A LEY LINE OR LEY LINE NEXUS!!!

B]] Cast "Illusory Terain" over the area, also with "Spell Doubler" at the Ley Line.

C]] Have your Troops, behind the (known) Area of Effect, effect a convincing Fighting Retreat to draw the Enemy in.

D]] Have "River of Lava" at the ready, preferably as a Scroll created by a High-Level Mage beforehand.

E]] What did they use to say in "Mortal Kombat??"

Oh, yeah:


"Toasty!!"

[Killer Cyborg]

@KC, it's just comes back to what I said earlier. If it doesn't say you can, that doesn't mean you can't. You take a more conservative outlook on how things work in game. Doesn't make you right or wrong but, that applies to my way of seeing how the magic spell CoA could function as well.

Ask just about anybody:

Can you cast CoA on a hill? Sure, why not?

Can you cast CoA on a large flat area of land with a small hill in the middle? Yes, what does that matter?

What do both of these shapes make if flipped up side down? A bowl and a flat plane with a crater. What is the difference in your mind? After reading your responses about how CoA works, I would get the impression it only works on perfectly flat ground or even surfaces. That is also not IMPLIED in the spell, so where does this argument of yours come from? Not from the book, that much is for sure.

The spell isn't perfectly flat unless whatever surface it is cast on is perfectly flat.
The spell conforms to the topography of the surface that it is cast on.
When there is not surface, then the spell does not affect that area.

[Killer Cyborg]

When there is not surface, then the spell does not affect that area.

I would dispute this because this can be a "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" dilemna.

Let's say a Mage casts CoA on a door. Is the door sticky on both side?

Most likely not.

If you cast it on an object, like say a person, they would be sticky all over.

Yes, exactly.
The entire surface of their body would be sticky.
The spell would conform to the surface of their body, not the air around them.

So you could theoretically cover a door. What if someone went to open said door and became affected, then decided to vaporize the door(this is assuming an energy attack, physical objects should get stuck without a save and sentient beings can try to save, just my opinion based on the example of other spells).

Now that the door doesn't exist, CoA doesn't have a surface, does it cease to exist and now the person is free?

Yes.

Well, we know that's not true because of the example used for trying to Teleport out. Once an area or person is affected they must wait out the duration or negate the spell.

I don't read it that way.
You teleport out, and part of the sticky-field goes with you, latching onto the new surface.
Turn intangible or turn to mist, and you're free.

Now, that is where the extrapolation that CoA could indeed be used as an area effect spell with an anchoring surface, is based. Once the spell is cast as long as there is some surface for the spell to make contact with, the object or the area can be affected.

And only the surface area of the object.

[KLM]

I always allowed Escape to get rid of the carpet (or Magic net for
that matter).

Is it canon?

Adios
KLM

[VooDu]

But why couldn't you turn intangible and walk out or mist and float out? If you can walk through doors why not a carpet.

[Killer Cyborg]

I don't agree that CoA just ceases to exist if the surface it was cast on is destroyed. If it were that simple and common to do, I'm pretty sure it would have been adressed in the spell description.

Not really.
It's not too easy to completely destroy something. Say you're stuck to that door. You can break it, but you'll still be stuck to the pieces. You can burn it into ash, but that seems kind of dangerous and would take a while (unless you're a burster).
If you're stuck to the ground, how do you destroy earth? It's not too easy.

[Killer Cyborg]

But why couldn't you turn intangible and walk out or mist and float out? If you can walk through doors why not a carpet.

Because the spell has affected you and the duration on you is still in effect. If someone casts Agony on you, do you think that turning to Mist or becoming Intangible will save you?

Not the same thing.
Pain isn't affected by intangibility, but being stuck to things is.

[VooDu]

I should have been more clear. If cast on them no they can't leave until the duration is over or until they phase into the ground (this can be done via the HU2 powers). I would say that it takes more time for them to vibrate or phase through since it is not "natural". If CoA was put on them in the air they are SOL . If cast in the area they should be able to phase through.

[Killer Cyborg]

Actually, implies nothing... the wording of the Escape spell is /exceedingly/ clear...

'Magically escape any bonds'

Nothing to say there that they must be mundane.

Now, if you wan tto argue that we must specifically and literally interpret the Carpet of Adhesion spell like divine writ... I don't see there's any wriggle room in the description of Escape to say you can't use it to... well, escape.

Funny thing, poorly defined spell descriptions, aren't they?

Now quote the examples that are given for the spell use and show where it might imply it can be used against magic restrants and barriers. Again, as I mentioned to KC, if something were that simple I think it would be mentioned.

That would also make spells like Negate Magic and Dispel Magic Barriers pretty useless. Hey, for a measly 8 PPE I can escape anything!!! Woohoo!

Taken literally, the Escape spell is also bad news for any of 007's enemies.

[The Beast]

But why couldn't you turn intangible and walk out or mist and float out? If you can walk through doors why not a carpet.

Because the spell has affected you and the duration on you is still in effect. If someone casts Agony on you, do you think that turning to Mist or becoming Intangible will save you?

Not the same thing.
Pain isn't affected by intangibility, but being stuck to things is.

Depending on how the game is run this can have different outcomes.
1) Person turning intangible when he has already been stuck to an area with CoA shouldn't be allowed to escape. (He is still standing in the area where it was cast and has been determined how long he will be stuck there. If allowed to escape CoA how is he doing this with out falling through the ground? Some physics still apply to intangibility.)
2) A person could avoid CoA with intangibility by turning on his power before he entered an area with CoA on it. I doubt it would affect him.

Here is what I'm looking for, Vampire Kingdoms, page 33:

Carpet of Adhesion and Magic Net are both excellent means to temporarily stop a vampire, but the undead can escape by turning to mist.

Why would teleporting out of the carpet be any different?

[Blue Eyes]

hi all

i as a GM am really ambivalent about this spell. it is easily one of the most powerful spells in the game (and i think it should be a higher level, cost more ppe or be limited in some other way) and players usually start misusing it whenever they figure that out. on one side i think its a cool spell with alot of aplications for the resourceful spell caster, and on the other side my experience shows me that players sometimes come to rely too much on the spell. after a while some of my player used it in all encounters - entangle - blast to death - boring

the 10ft*20ft sticky magical carpet (an actual carpet) can be cast on walls, ceilings, ground and even on people within range and then sticks too them. the spellcaster can alter the size and appearance of the carpet as he or she sees fit, but cannot exceed the max 10ft*20ft

so far so good. as for turning into mist and escaping like the vampires thats just fine by me as is the part about someone teleporting taking a part of the carpet with them. i agree with anyone who says the spell ignores targets strength and type of soil/surface the carpet is stuck to as factors in how long it takes to escape.

but what are the actual effects of being stuck to the carpet? i mean there has to be penalties asides from being unable to move from the spot. here are some thoughts

i mean if cast on a table and u touch it with ur right hand, u should still be able to move only now u have to pull the table along - u would be assigned combat penalties and should avoid touching the table with any other part of ur body or they will get stuck as well.

but if u lean up against a wall with a carpet of adhesion ur stuck - unable to move/walk/run and dodge but may still be able to parry incoming attacks, cast spells, use psionics etc.

then again if the spell caster targets u with a sticky flypaper and he makes it large enough to compltely surround ur character and pin him down - unable to move, parry, dodge or perform any physical action (in effect unable to defend) - i wonder can u use spells or psionic abilities while inside this magical prison??, can u breathe or will u suffocate?, is the carpet of adhesion semi-transparent or can it look like an actual carpet which u cannot see through etc

finally the spell says nothing about wether or not u can attack those inside the carpet, blasting them to bits, crushing them, drowning them etc. the carpet captures the target but does it also protect the victim from harm?, is it possible for the victim to blast through the sticky carpet? and how much damage can it take before it is destroyed? all thee questions and no help to find in the books - bravo palladium

finally i wonder why a potential victim shouldnt have the possibility to try and dodge the flypaper version of the spell - like u can dodge a magic net. this feature - that there is nothing u can do but save is what makes this spell exceptionally powerful

c ya

[VooDu]

Correction to my previous post. According to RUE "Someone who teleports away will teleport part of the carpet with them and remains stuck when they reach their new destination."

I would rule turning to mist or becoming intangible the same as Magic net. (See the Magic net posts)

I hope that this helps.

[Richter]

Yaknow what would rock

Create a Psionic force wall behind someone, cast CoA on the psi wall, and boo scare them into it =p

[Thinyser]

2.) How CoA manifestst: If CoA were visible it would make a poor trap. Performing abilities and even skills could be difficulty depending how CoA is affecting you. If someone CoA'd a plastic bag over your face
(extreme example) you could be in some serious trouble.

Thats ****ing mean.... I like it!

[Killer Cyborg]

If someone CoA'd a plastic bag over your face(extreme example) you could be in some serious trouble.

This is one of the best arguments that I have seen against the idea that CoA creates indestructable flypaper.
Because if it does, then you don't even need that plastic bag.

[Killer Cyborg]

If someone CoA'd a plastic bag over your face(extreme example) you could be in some serious trouble.

This is one of the best arguments that I have seen against the idea that CoA creates indestructable flypaper.
Because if it does, then you don't even need that plastic bag.

I didn't say you couldn't poke a hole in the bag or get it off but, depending on how you're stuck, it could be real scary to say the least.

What if you super-glued someones nostrils and mouth shut? This could happen in RL, imagine what a magic spell might do.

You seem to have missed the point.
You can't breathe with indestructable flypaper over your face.
IF people are right that CoA makes indestructable flypaper, then all you need to do for a quick kill against anybody without an oxygen mask or EBA is to CoA their head. The flypaper will suffocate them, and there's no way to poke a hole in it.

[Killer Cyborg]

First I would like to just say sorry to Killer Cyborg in advance but, I HAD to post this!!!!

Do we play Devil's Advocate much? After all your arguments against me for why CoA shouldn't work the way I stated...

After trying to show how many different ways it would be possible to slip CoA...

You post this elsewhere:

My simple rule is is that a creature is in any way restrained or confined in their movement, any bond or rope will do, they cannot teleport.

Thats an odd rule. Hmm for some reason this purely mundane section of hemp has somehow prevented my ability to magically transport myself to another spot...WTH?"

I agree that it doesn't seem to make much sense.
On the other hand, it's a simple rule that provides a clear answer to a large number of situations.
Sometimes simplicity is better than realism.

OMG is this classic!!!

????
What about it?

[Killer Cyborg]

If someone CoA'd a plastic bag over your face(extreme example) you could be in some serious trouble.

This is one of the best arguments that I have seen against the idea that CoA creates indestructable flypaper.
Because if it does, then you don't even need that plastic bag.

I didn't say you couldn't poke a hole in the bag or get it off but, depending on how you're stuck, it could be real scary to say the least.

What if you super-glued someones nostrils and mouth shut? This could happen in RL, imagine what a magic spell might do.

You seem to have missed the point.
You can't breathe with indestructable flypaper over your face.
IF people are right that CoA makes indestructable flypaper, then all you need to do for a quick kill against anybody without an oxygen mask or EBA is to CoA their head. The flypaper will suffocate them, and there's no way to poke a hole in it.

I think you missed the point several times...

Why do you need to think of CoA as a Physical manifestation?

I don't.
But, since you've apparently missed it, there are people here who have been arguing that it is a physical manifestation.

There is no "carpet" there is no "fly-paper", just an area that is covered by a force that blankets the area like a "carpet" and that sticks everything to it like "fly-paper".

It's indestructible because it is a force, a magic one, not a tangible object that can be destroyed. Why is that so hard to understand? Think about the Super Power: Adhesion. It's a force, nothing more.

Roughly what I have been saying all along.