Catatonic Strike with Psi-Sword?

Judas · Unread post by **Judas** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:00 pm

Quick question, do you think Catatonic Strike can be used with the Psi-Sword, saw the Mind Mage post and thought I'd a add a little problem our party has encountered, what does everyone think?

Sentinel · Unread post by **Sentinel** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:12 pm

Not certain if this is Canon or not.
I would not allow it. One or the other, but not both.

Astroconch · Unread post by **Astroconch** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:18 pm

Sure don't see why you couldn't.

Astroconch · Unread post by **Astroconch** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:13 pm

Why would it be munchkin when you could have both powers? You people and your munchkin crap is just laughable.

J. Lionheart · Unread post by **J. Lionheart** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:45 pm

I wouldn't call it munchkin, I'd call it a good idea, except...

Catatonic Strike requires a physical attack, and I don't consider a psi-sword physical. Psi-Swords are fields of energy, not solid objects, so I don't believe they are capable of delivering a CS.

Judas · Unread post by **Judas** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:32 am

Thanx for the replys peeps, opinions welcome, and Sentinel sorry am not cannon (who ever cannon is)

"Mine is not to wonder why"

Slag · Unread post by **Slag** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:25 am

J. Lionheart wrote:I wouldn't call it munchkin, I'd call it a good idea, except...

Catatonic Strike requires a physical attack, and I don't consider a psi-sword physical. Psi-Swords are fields of energy, not solid objects, so I don't believe they are capable of delivering a CS.

I agree...Cat Strike = Physical strike. Psi Sword = intangible energy.

Astroconch · Unread post by **Astroconch** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:22 am

Now is it really intangible energy or ectoplasmic energy? If it is the latter then it would be physical.

Judas · Unread post by **Judas** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:55 am

Psi-sword is physical on some level thought because it is used in a physical weapon to parry & strike, I see the point about the energy however this may nd sum rethinking!

MrGiggles wrote:"Would you like fries with your munchkin?"

Yes it reeks of beard, but its better than the psychic Bio-manipulation: Paralysis all the time, the lesser of 2 evils mate, plus the player shouldn't be munkined up 4 "at the time" a good idea (we were facing a Baalrog demon, just after we had a time fighting the lesser demons, damn summoners!).

Astroconch · Unread post by **Astroconch** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:56 pm

I was just thinking that ectoplasm is psychic energy so the psi-sword might be similar

Damian Magecraft · Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:59 pm

Catatonic Strike (PFMB pg 173) states the power is "delivered from a stabbing attack with a blade weapon"
Psi-sword (PFMB pg 177) states "the sword appears out of thin air as a shimmering blade of energy"
Keeping these definitions in mind...strictly by the wording a psi-sword is a blade weapon, so yes it is possible to combine the two powers.
On the other hand additional text in both powers state
1. Catatonic strike is a physical attack...
2. Psi-sword is composed of energy...
In this respect the answer is no; the powers cannot be combined.
However; further text in the description of Psi-sword repeatedly refers to the sword as a blade...
For this reason my personal take on this is yes it is possible.
As to it being munchkin...Two things.
1. Why is it every time someone comes up with an inventive use of powers someone inevitably says it is munchkin? :roll:

2. Psi-sword requires 15 seconds (1 full melee) to create and Catatonic strike requires 1 action to activate...fairly high cost (and this doesn't even take into account the ISP costs) for some thing that is only around for 2 actions IMO.

Janus · Unread post by **Janus** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:50 am

Oh what are you talking about? The "blade" is energy therefore unable to make a physical attack. The wording may call it a "blade" but that does indicate a physical thing. Also I think psi-amorphousblob is not as cool sounding as psi-sword. I think people use the term munchkin not because it is a clever idea, but more to the point of using the rules to really power them up. Clever is as clever does, but a rule lawyer to max a character is a munchkin player. They want more then what is standard. Now then combining psi-sword with psi-shield for a shield bash attack is not munchkin it is clever. Hey, I think it is a cool idea I am going to write up rules for it.

Had to give you a hard time Damian.

Damian Magecraft · Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:10 pm

true, Janus
however the main reason I would allow this is mainly because the psi-sword does actual physical damage...

J. Lionheart · Unread post by **J. Lionheart** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:33 pm

Damian Magecraft wrote:true, Janus
however the main reason I would allow this is mainly because the psi-sword does actual physical damage...

Hmm, does it? I've always treated it a bit like... I dunno... Call Lightning let's say. An attack that has very definite physical repercussions (as many damage spells and psionics do), but is not itself physical. It's a form of energy, it varies in damage by level, cannot be saved against, etc.

I certainly understand the argument that it's physical, being as it can be parried and all, but we'd always used it as just a special form of psionic energy field. Interesting indeed!

Damian Magecraft · Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:13 pm

J. Lionheart wrote:
Damian Magecraft wrote:true, Janus
however the main reason I would allow this is mainly because the psi-sword does actual physical damage...

Hmm, does it? I've always treated it a bit like... I dunno... Call Lightning let's say. An attack that has very definite physical repercussions (as many damage spells and psionics do), but is not itself physical. It's a form of energy, it varies in damage by level, cannot be saved against, etc.

I certainly understand the argument that it's physical, being as it can be parried and all, but we'd always used it as just a special form of psionic energy field. Interesting indeed!

strictly by the rules (splitting hairs here) all it states under Psi-sword is that it does damage and can parry. anything else is personal preference...
and nowhere does catatonic strike state that it must be a metal blade. so theoretically it could be used with a wooden practice blade.

also check out PF D&G pg 47 under the Ultucan Dragon's Psionics powers it lists Catatonic strike and Psi-sword. now since the ultucan has no true hands...i have a hard time with allowing them to TK a blade and use the catatonic strike...(some things even I wont allow) it seems logical that catatonic strike and Psi-sword are compatable IMHO.

J. Lionheart · Unread post by **J. Lionheart** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:08 am

Aye, I agree with you on the personal preference thing. I daresay I'd be happy enough to play however my GM wanted to, as long as it was consistent.

Add item number #147 to the list of "Things to ask the GM about when playing with them for the first time."

Janus · Unread post by **Janus** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:39 am

Damian Magecraft wrote:true, Janus
however the main reason I would allow this is mainly because the psi-sword does actual physical damage...

oh no it does not! It is all dream damage the PC wakes up with a slight headache. Ok maybe not. I would not allow it unless the psi-sword became a physical manifestation of a sword, not just doing physical damages. Energy is one thing to do damage lightning is energy it does damage, but is not real tangible. Much like a psi-sword, energy. I think the cata would slip off that energy like a Tonya Harding on an ice rink.

Judas · Unread post by **Judas** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:37 am

sorry to take some thing from rifts but the cyber knight book goes into more detail than any other book on the psi-sword, it reads like the blade is physical blade as the knight (mind mage) can form the weapon like it was forged from steel even with insignias, also the pallaidum psi-shield states its a companion to the psi-sword but must be physical as it can parry everything including dragon fire (just like eric out of D&D the cartoon :-D

)

But your energy theory sounds sensible on some level, it might be a bit of both!

Janus · Unread post by **Janus** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:47 am

Judas wrote:sorry to take some thing from rifts but the cyber knight book goes into more detail than any other book on the psi-sword, it reads like the blade is physical blade as the knight (mind mage) can form the weapon like it was forged from steel even with insignias, also the pallaidum psi-shield states its a companion to the psi-sword but must be physical as it can parry everything including dragon fire (just like eric out of D&D the cartoon )

But your energy theory sounds sensible on some level, it might be a bit of both!

Seeing as how everything is compatible in the megaverse, never apologize for using something from Rifts. If that book is the one i am thinking of, I have it and will give it a once over. It may be exactly as it states and becomes physical allowing for catatonic strike.

Judas · Unread post by **Judas** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:25 pm

Cheers Janus

Janus · Unread post by **Janus** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:51 pm

Judas wrote:Cheers Janus

I'll drink to that.

Marcethus · Unread post by **Marcethus** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:53 am

I would say yes because I have always thought of the Psisword as a psychic manifestation that inflicts physical damage being as it mimics a sword.

Guest · Unread post by **Guest** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:15 pm

Ya know...Wayne Breaux recently stated that he was changing some things, and making two types of energy weapons, one pure energy that cannot parry, but is very damaging...

and the other is solid energy, does less, but can parry...

he said Psi-Swords will fall in the second category