1st & 2nd ed.

[Colonel Wolfe]

okay, this has prolly Came up before, but as a newbie to the whole Palalfium Fantasy realm (I'm a D&D Fantsay fan my self) What are the Key diffrences between 1st and 2nd ed?

i knwo the SDC, Spells per day Diffrence.

what other big Systamatic diffrences between the 2 systems?

[J. Lionheart]

As you said, SDC used to be non-living stuff. Now it is everything. Along those lines, everything in 1e is far far weaker. Creatures with 600hp in 1e might have 16000 SDC in 2e.

Also, as you said, 2e uses PPE instead of Spells/Day. Spell selection methods are a little different too.

Skills are different. 1e has no physical skills, and therefore a minimum of the min-maxing that goes on in 2e. Also, the other skills are frequently different (fewer of them, more general, not as many modern sounding ones).

Hand to Hand is different. Nearly every class had their own HTH style, with different bonuses according to their specialties. In 2e those were eliminated and replaced with the 4 standard styles.

The actual spells themselves are a little different. 2e has more, if I remember correctly.

Certain specific classes are different. 2e clerics are far weaker than 1e clerics in the magic and combat area, but gain a couple miracles and prayers. Druids in 1e become Totem Druids in 2e, and the 2e druid does not exist in 1e. The paladin Demon Death Blow is a 2e creation. Certain other classes have small modifications like the DDB as well.

[Colonel Wolfe]

As you said, SDC used to be non-living stuff. Now it is everything. Along those lines, everything in 1e is far far weaker. Creatures with 600hp in 1e might have 16000 SDC in 2e.

Also, as you said, 2e uses PPE instead of Spells/Day. Spell selection methods are a little different too.

Skills are different. 1e has no physical skills, and therefore a minimum of the min-maxing that goes on in 2e. Also, the other skills are frequently different (fewer of them, more general, not as many modern sounding ones).

Hand to Hand is different. Nearly every class had their own HTH style, with different bonuses according to their specialties. In 2e those were eliminated and replaced with the 4 standard styles.

The actual spells themselves are a little different. 2e has more, if I remember correctly.

Certain specific classes are different. 2e clerics are far weaker than 1e clerics in the magic and combat area, but gain a couple miracles and prayers. Druids in 1e become Totem Druids in 2e, and the 2e druid does not exist in 1e. The paladin Demon Death Blow is a 2e creation. Certain other classes have small modifications like the DDB as well.

Did the Psionics follow the Old Style (Mechinoid) Levels?

and Did diffrent Classes have Diffrent Hit point Dice? would seam kinda bad if a Warrior and Mage both had PE + D6 per level.... even if Warriors had better defense Values, they should still be able to take a bit more punishment then a Wizard of the Same level.... or am i just to stuck in D&D/Final fantasy Class HP diffrences.

[J. Lionheart]

Psionics were Non, Minor, Major, Master. You could have a Master Psionic who was not a psionic O.C.C., they just had to roll to see if they had abilities instead of automatically getting every one. Having psionics and being a non-psionic O.C.C. gave no skill penalties in 1e. I don't know if that matches the oldschool mechanoid style, but it certainly was different than 2e.

All classes got P.E. + 1D6 per level. Men At Arms however gained better bonuses in hand to hand, which allowed them to be superior in combat. Also, like in 2e, Men At Arms could use heavy armor without combat penalties, which in 1e was very effective. These things compensated for the similar starting hit points.

You can get a copy of first edition mainbook online rather cheaply. I would strongly encourage it, it's worth it for a person like you who is interested in going back. I still have my original one from, and I love it.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Psionics were Non, Minor, Major, Master. You could have a Master Psionic who was not a psionic O.C.C., they just had to roll to see if they had abilities instead of automatically getting every one. Having psionics and being a non-psionic O.C.C. gave no skill penalties in 1e. I don't know if that matches the oldschool mechanoid style, but it certainly was different than 2e.

All classes got P.E. + 1D6 per level. Men At Arms however gained better bonuses in hand to hand, which allowed them to be superior in combat. Also, like in 2e, Men At Arms could use heavy armor without combat penalties, which in 1e was very effective. These things compensated for the similar starting hit points.

You can get a copy of first edition mainbook online rather cheaply. I would strongly encourage it, it's worth it for a person like you who is interested in going back. I still have my original one from, and I love it.

not as much going back, but looking at the systms evolution over the last 25 years...
I got the Mechinoid Invasion trilogy.... its sytem was was pretty solid if you followed the KISS system...
I'm looking to find 1st Ed. PFRPG, TMNT HU & N&SS... all unrevised versions of the last 3...

[J. Lionheart]

Ebay has several first edition PF mainbooks on sale... looking just now I saw a first edition with the well known pegasus vs dragon cover, and a first edition with the older red dragon cover. Both are revised editions, but looks like you're ok with that for PF. There was also a second edition main book with a stack of autographs and what looks like an autographed dragon's head illustration from Kev inside the cover which I'd be bidding on, but I don't need a 4th copy of the mainbook :-/

Unrevised editions of the others might be hard to find... none on EBay that I saw. The good people at Titan Games (http://www.titangames.com/titansite/) might have something, they're responsive to email queries and could tell you the editions they have if you ask. Their stock changes weekly. They're the folks I got my RIFTS Gold edition from without any trouble.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Ebay has several first edition PF mainbooks on sale... looking just now I saw a first edition with the well known pegasus vs dragon cover, and a first edition with the older red dragon cover. Both are revised editions, but looks like you're ok with that for PF. There was also a second edition main book with a stack of autographs and what looks like an autographed dragon's head illustration from Kev inside the cover which I'd be bidding on, but I don't need a 4th copy of the mainbook :-/

didnt know 1st ed. had a Revised version.... so looks like i'm gonna be huinting more....
My Autograph collection is pretty extensive... My Rifter 9.5 is Signed by both Percy Ferkelberger and Penelope Ferkelberger....

Unrevised editions of the others might be hard to find... none on EBay that I saw. The good people at Titan Games (http://www.titangames.com/titansite/) might have something, they're responsive to email queries and could tell you the editions they have if you ask. Their stock changes weekly. They're the folks I got my RIFTS Gold edition from without any trouble.

thanks... i'll also check the Conventiosn i goto once a season....

[maasenstodt]

Lionheart is pretty well on the money. Basically, 1st ed. is a rules-light version of the Palladium system, but with just as much or even more flavor than its successor. When Kevin was tossing around the "streamlined" idea, moving back to something more like 1st ed. is what I was hoping for.

Stepping back from the mechanics for a moment, actual gameplay with 1st ed. is faster, smoother, and more dramatic. Combat is actually deadly, skills are more focused, and O.C.C.s are more distinct (Kevin should never have abandoned the unique combat skills). In short, it's Palladium as it was meant to be.