Just wondering

Rimmer · Unread post by **Rimmer** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:42 pm

Why are the bonuses for H2H:MA agent, less than the good ol' H2H MA standard ? one would have thought they would be the same if not superior ? actual fact, most of the martial art styles give inferior bonuses than the standard three of palladium. I know they get way more moves and stuff, let alone the chi powers, but still.

Me is knowing there is a good solid explaination for this, but me is not finding it

Mantisking · Unread post by **Mantisking** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:51 pm

Which book(s) are you looking at?

Rimmer · Unread post by **Rimmer** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:24 pm

Just the standard NSS, with H2H MA, you get +2 strike and +3 parry/dodge by 3rd level, whereas most of the other martial arts you need to be up to 6th ish level to get the same sort of bonuses.

Guest · Unread post by **Guest** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:18 pm

Actually, the bonuses are about average for the hand to hand styles compared to the full blown martial arts, with the N&S versions being at the low end of that. HU2 versions have the high end of hand to hand bonuses, but not much above the overall average of hand to hand bonuses.

As for Mantisking's question about which book(s), don't forget that N&S comes in two basic flavors, original and revised, with the revised edition seriously lowering the power levels of just about all the martial art styles. (Not too mention that each version of Hand to Hand is somewhat different from game to game across the "Palladium Megaverse.")

If you're interested in seeing the actual breakdowns, by style and location, check out Hand to Hand Comparison 2

Rimmer · Unread post by **Rimmer** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:03 pm

Cheers for that, those comparasin tables make it easier. It still however does not explain why the generic H2H MA rules all the others, look, H2H MA has +3/+5/+5 to the good ol' strike parry dodge. The only styles that i could come up with that even equalled this were Lee kwan choo, pao pat mee and sankukai (admitadly it was a very quick look) even the non revised version still were less powerful. In simple terms, why should Joe Shmoo who had an extra skill to choose and chose to upgrade from EX to MA, have more bonuses than Mr. Lee, who trains for 10 years to get Muay Thai ????????

Nekira Sudacne · Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:56 pm

heretic888 wrote:
Rimmer wrote:Cheers for that, those comparasin tables make it easier. It still however does not explain why the generic H2H MA rules all the others, look, H2H MA has +3/+5/+5 to the good ol' strike parry dodge. The only styles that i could come up with that even equalled this were Lee kwan choo, pao pat mee and sankukai (admitadly it was a very quick look) even the non revised version still were less powerful. In simple terms, why should Joe Shmoo who had an extra skill to choose and chose to upgrade from EX to MA, have more bonuses than Mr. Lee, who trains for 10 years to get Muay Thai ????????

Simple, really.

A typical N&SS form gives you attribute bonuses, skills included with training (including non-secondary skills), around 5 martial art powers, exponentially more (and better) combat maneuvers, and far better critical strike and death blow rates.

Not to mention, N&SS martial artists get other nice benefits like only a -4 penalty (plus bonuses) to dodge gunfire, only a natural 7 to pull punches, and one free roll with punch per round.

Its really no comparison. All of the above is more than worth a +1 to strike, or +2 to parry/dodge.

actually. . .there's no penalty to dodge gunfire. . .at all. . .

Nekira Sudacne · Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:47 pm

heretic888 wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:actually. . .there's no penalty to dodge gunfire. . .at all. . .

"ALL characters are -4 to dodge modern weapons/guns." (p. 134)

Of course, if you have Zanshin as one of your Martial Art Powers, then this penalty is effectively cancelled out.

really? lemme check the book again, coz I sure never saw it. this N&SS?

Nekira Sudacne · Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:41 pm

so there is. point conceded.

Rimmer · Unread post by **Rimmer** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:46 pm

OK, yes, your typical martial arts style will give you attribute bonuses, this will never be enough to offset the differences in strike, parry and dodge bonuses. Yes, the gunfire dodge modifier comes in handy, but we are talking about Martial artists here, not gunslingers, whats that phrase ??????

"Never bring a knife to a gunfight"

The natural 7 to pull punches is cool, showing the greater control of moves, but where did you get the one free roll from ??? well that will teach me for skim reading won't it :-P

but still, one free roll is hardly earth shattering :-P

As to the better moves and the selection of martial arts powers, alot of them you still have to hit the opponent with, which still relies on your lousy strike bonuses. Some obviously do not require this, Zanshin being one of my favourites, but not every body can have this.