new Chi Abilities, feedback desired.

[glitterboy2098]

i had a few idea's for some new Chi abilities, inspired by the more "cinematic" portrayal of martial arts commonly found in movies, TV shows, and Anime.

i'm still working on some, but here are the 2 i have finished the mechanics for.

(i apoligise for the lack of oreintal sounding names, but i'm no good with such things.)



Chi Channelling

Neutral Chi Skill.

Restrictions: may only be taken if the martial art form includes anWeapon Kata and WP as part of its automatic skills.

this ability allows the martial artist to channel Chi abilities through a weapon. commonly seen used with blades, although any weapon may be used. this ability requires no additional Chi to use, and merely represents the users training in the specific use of Chi.
Chi abilities most commonly used in conjuction with Chi Channelling include Shi Jen (Hardend Chi), Chao Jen (Soft Chi), and Chi Transferance.

Chi Transferance

Neutral Chi Ability

this ability allows the martial artist to charge his attacks with 1 point of Chi each, transfering it to his target with a successful attack. the effects of this are as per the normal rules for chi combat. this ability allows the martial artist to gradually weardown an opponents Chi, while additionally inflicting Pyshical damage. while this is a neutral ability, the effects are most apparent when in combat with an opponent with opposete chi (ex: you impart positive Chi on a target possesing negitive Chi.)

the process of wearing down an opponents Chi by this method is slow and difficult, however many Martial artists with a sense of fairness will choose to hobble themselves (as such) in such fights in order ensure both sides are fighting with their full abilities.

-------------

i have a few more planned, including one thats kind of a cross between Hardend and Soft Chi attacks, used to knock back an opponent. still trying to figure out the mechanics of that one.

[Mantisking]

Interesting. I cleaned them up a little and made some comments.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
Chi Mastery {Positive or Negative}
Chi Channelling: This ability allows the martial artist to channel Chi abilities through a weapon. commonly seen used with blades, although any weapon may be used. This ability requires no additional Chi to use, and merely represents the users training in the specific use of Chi.
Chi abilities most commonly used in conjuction with Chi Channelling include Shi Jen (Hardend Chi), Chao Jen (Soft Chi), and Chi Transferance. Restrictions: May only be taken if the martial art form can learn a Weapon Kata.

You can already do this. Weapon Kata allow use of "powers" with a weapon.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
Chi Mastery {Positive or Negative}
Chi Transferance: This ability allows the martial artist to charge his attacks with one (1) point of Chi each, transfering it to his target with a successful attack. The effects of this are as per the normal rules for chi combat. This ability allows the martial artist to gradually wear down an opponents Chi, while additionally inflicting physical damage. While this is a neutral ability, the effects are most apparent when in combat with an opponent with opposite chi (ex: you impart Positive Chi into a target possessing Negative Chi.)

So it's like Chi Combat, but you have to hit the guy.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
The process of wearing down an opponent's Chi by this method is slow and difficult, however many martial artists with a sense of fairness will choose to hobble themselves (as such) in such fights in order ensure both sides are fighting with their full abilities.

Dude, there's fair, and then there's stupid.

[glitterboy2098]

Interesting. I cleaned them up a little and made some comments.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
Chi Mastery {Positive or Negative}
Chi Channelling: This ability allows the martial artist to channel Chi abilities through a weapon. commonly seen used with blades, although any weapon may be used. This ability requires no additional Chi to use, and merely represents the users training in the specific use of Chi.
Chi abilities most commonly used in conjuction with Chi Channelling include Shi Jen (Hardend Chi), Chao Jen (Soft Chi), and Chi Transferance. Restrictions: May only be taken if the martial art form can learn a Weapon Kata.

You can already do this. Weapon Kata allow use of "powers" with a weapon.

actually, Weapon Kata's only allow you to use the martial arts moves in conjuction with weapons. Chi powers specifically state that they cannot be used in conjuction with weapons. this adds an "unless" to that.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
Chi Mastery {Positive or Negative}
Chi Transferance: This ability allows the martial artist to charge his attacks with one (1) point of Chi each, transfering it to his target with a successful attack. The effects of this are as per the normal rules for chi combat. This ability allows the martial artist to gradually wear down an opponents Chi, while additionally inflicting physical damage. While this is a neutral ability, the effects are most apparent when in combat with an opponent with opposite chi (ex: you impart Positive Chi into a target possessing Negative Chi.)

So it's like Chi Combat, but you have to hit the guy.

yep, a bit more dramatic.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
The process of wearing down an opponent's Chi by this method is slow and difficult, however many martial artists with a sense of fairness will choose to hobble themselves (as such) in such fights in order ensure both sides are fighting with their full abilities.

Dude, there's fair, and then there's stupid.

you never had to fight under honor rules have you? in many forms of fighting, the rules of honorable conduct restrict a person from using some techniques in order to either "level the playing feild" or to "give an opponent a chance"

if a Martial artist is seeking challenges, they will not engage in traditional Chi combat, so that both they and their opponent will be fighting with at full capacity.

generally unless both participants are fighting under the same honor code, it becomes a weakness, but thats a Roleplay issue. if all you look at is Rollplay and stats, its all but useless, but this ability adds some diversity and uniqueness to a character.

for example, in Wrestling (not the staged WWF stuff, i'm talking olympic legal styles) many moves are illegal and banned because they are too powerful and potentially dangerous. (full nelsons for example) if both opponents follow these rules, the contest comes out to skill. if one does not, that participant gains a major advantage over the other, unbalancing the whole contest. Wrestling is Refereed, as are many martial arts matches. however a highly principled martial artist will fight as if the ref is present even when one is not, and hold back his/her full potential.

martial arts impart control, over both body and mind. a blackbelt will not snap and kill someone, although he/she is fully capable of doing so barehanded. part of this control is the code of honorable conduct for the particular school.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I've never cared too much for these controled contests.


what's the point of "leveling the playing feild" so to speak? if he's better than you he's better than you.

[glitterboy2098]

its a principle thing.

people who respect their opponents will not fight in such a way that dishonors either.

rather like roughing up a athlete before a boxing match, Chi combat prior to physical combat could be seen as an unfair advantage.

now, personally, i'm all for acts that give you the advantage. real life doesn't fit honorable modes of thought, and your opponents are gonna do everything they can to gain the upper hand. but many people are idealists, and won't think that way.


like i said, its more of a Roleplay tool than a powerful ability, makes for a more intresting character.

[Mantisking]

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
Chi Mastery {Positive or Negative}
Chi Channelling: This ability allows the martial artist to channel Chi abilities through a weapon. commonly seen used with blades, although any weapon may be used. This ability requires no additional Chi to use, and merely represents the users training in the specific use of Chi. Chi abilities most commonly used in conjuction with Chi Channelling include Shi Jen (Hardend Chi), Chao Jen (Soft Chi), and Chi Transferance. Restrictions: May only be taken if the martial art form can learn a Weapon Kata.

Originally posted by me.
You can already do this. Weapon Kata allow use of "powers" with a weapon.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
actually, Weapon Kata's only allow you to use the martial arts moves in conjuction with weapons. Chi powers specifically state that they cannot be used in conjuction with weapons. this adds an "unless" to that.

Actually, it's only Hard Chi that doesn't allow weapon use. So instead of making a new ability, you could just make a house rule.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
Chi Mastery {Positive or Negative}
Chi Transferance: This ability allows the martial artist to charge his attacks with one (1) point of Chi each, transfering it to his target with a successful attack. The effects of this are as per the normal rules for chi combat. This ability allows the martial artist to gradually wear down an opponent's Chi, while additionally inflicting physical damage. While this ability can be used with both types of chi, the effects are most apparent when in combat with an opponent with opposite chi (ex: you impart Positive Chi into a target possessing Negative Chi.).

Originally posted by me.
So it's like Chi Combat, but you have to hit the guy.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
yep, a bit more dramatic.

A bit more boring and inefficient really.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
The process of wearing down an opponent's Chi by this method is slow and difficult, however many martial artists with a sense of fairness will choose to hobble themselves (as such) in such fights in order ensure both sides are fighting with their full abilities.

Originally posted by me.
Dude, there's fair, and then there's stupid.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
you never had to fight under honor rules have you?

Most schools fight under "honor" rules. It's called "Don't Wreck Your Fellow Students." Also -- if you hobble yourself, you're not fighting with your full ability.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
in many forms of fighting, the rules of honorable conduct restrict a person from using some techniques in order to either "level the playing feild" or to "give an opponent a chance"

Maybe if it's teacher to student, or a villain fighting a less skilled person for fun.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
if a Martial artist is seeking challenges, they will not engage in traditional Chi combat, so that both they and their opponent will be fighting with at full capacity.

If you're fighting someone better than you to test your abilities, it all depends on how friendly the match is. Musashi used a bokken, not because he thought it was "fair", but because it tested his skills and maybe put in doubt his survival.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
generally unless both participants are fighting under the same honor code, it becomes a weakness, but thats a Roleplay issue. if all you look at is Rollplay and stats, its all but useless, but this ability adds some diversity and uniqueness to a character.

This can be done without creating a new ability. The character can simply state in game that they will not use certain abilities.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
for example, in Wrestling (not the staged WWF stuff, i'm talking olympic legal styles) many moves are illegal and banned because they are too powerful and potentially dangerous. (full nelsons for example) if both opponents follow these rules, the contest comes out to skill. if one does not, that participant gains a major advantage over the other, unbalancing the whole contest. Wrestling is Refereed, as are many martial arts matches.

Wrestling is a sport. A sport has rules so that the people participating in it are not injured. If people who participate in a sport are continuously injured, they will stop participating. If enough people stop participating, the sport dies out. The people who organize and oversee the sport do not want this. So therefore, rules.

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
martial arts impart control, over both body and mind. a blackbelt will not snap and kill someone, although he/she is fully capable of doing so barehanded. part of this control is the code of honorable conduct for the particular school.

If you're attempting to reduce someone's Chi reserves -- no matter how slowly -- don't you think you've abandoned honor?

[glitterboy2098]

so i can't write fluff text.

perhaps you can come up with a better explanation?

if my fluff is weak, forgive me, since this is my first attempt at N&SS material

[sinestus]

If you're attempting to reduce someone's Chi reserves -- no matter how slowly -- don't you think you've abandoned honor?

yep,
think about it,
only the dishonerable styles would really support the use of negative chi powers in the first place (and negative chi is what's used to destroy other people's chi...)
it's kinda unlilkely that someone practicing Tai Chi, or Aikido would bother weakening an opponent's chi when they're attacking, mostly 'cause they don't use alot of agressive moves...

as for powers with chi... i seem to recall a Sword Chi technique (Mystic china?) out there somewhere already in the books...

as for holding oneself back to give the opponent a fair chance,
seems to me you dishonor the opponent right there by assuming they're weaker then you and not giving them the chance to prove it.

[sinestus]

followup...

the "i attack AND destroy your chi" thing is still sneaky, either way,
as it's a martial arts power, not a standard chi power, it's not exactly an expected thing..

thus the chi-master, once the opponent has closed into close combat, prolly wouldn't be expecting a negative chi attack,


as for the "because it's there, it's not evil" thing..
you could shoot an enemy as well,
doesn't mean the gun is honerable.

its the mentality attached,
the good-aligned martial arts with chi, are generally attached to philosophy of peace,
blowing away your enemy and infecting them with negative chi is not a peaceful solution to the problem

styles like Tai Chi push for defence until the enemy is to tired to attack,

now if you tweeked this into a sneaky-arse power, it'd be another matter...

make it something like
grants the defender a +4 to their parry roll because the attack is predictable,
but the attack acts like a handful of water, splashing the negative CHI past their defences...
for like 5 chi, the attack gets 1 negative chi thru, and the sudden, unexpected blast of negative chi reques an ME check or the target is nausiated/stunned (like paralasys attack) for 1 round...

[sinestus]

What?

Look, Negative Chi is NOT dishonourable. It's a form of attack. How is using chi to deplete your opponent's any worse than using it to make yourself amazing at parrying, able to inflict large amounts of damage, or take a machine gun shot to the chest?

Is disarming an opponent's sword by throwing your knife at his hand dishonourable?

short of the "making yourself able to inflict large amounts of damage", all the others are purely defencive.

as for the second question,
yes, in most styles, it is.


yes it's just as easy to use negative chi
doesn't make it right
negative chi disrupts the harmony of the body,
it takes the martial art from being a method of self preservation,
self defence,
to being an act of agression
a method to kill.


there is a distinct difference between protecting yourself, usually until the opponent no longer persues harming you
and inflicting damage on them so they cannot persue inflicting harm

therein lies your basic cinimatic difference between good and evil.

add to that the fact that the majority of martial artists are not chi masters, and thus can't even defend against basic chi attacks,
and making a chi attach what is disguised as a normal attack becomes the most underhanded thing you could do short of the Dim Mak.
between chi masters, destroying the enemy's Chi may be honerable (tho, blasting a guy with negative chi who's already pumped with negative chi ain't gona do much)
but for everyone else, it's damn sneaky.

"oh ho. you seem to be a bit exhausted before your time... and here you thought i was just punching your body... little do you know, i was infecting your soul at the same time..."

not the kinda thing a honerable man would say...

[Mantisking]

Originally posted by Tyciol.
Look, Negative Chi is NOT dishonourable. It's a form of attack.

Originally posted by heretic888.
There are no particular alignment associations with positive and negative Chi. An Aikidoka can just as easily use negative Chi powers as anyone else.

Actually Sinestus is right. In game Negative Chi is considered an evil thing. Look at Snake Style kung fu (the masters of negative chi) for instance, the style requires a blood oath. Look at the abilities themselves, two out of three are killing techniques.

Originally posted by Tyciol.
How is using chi to deplete your opponent's any worse than using it to make yourself amazing at parrying, able to inflict large amounts of damage, or take a machine gun shot to the chest?

Because in N&S only 7 styles out of 41 have access to Chi Mastery at level 1.

[Mantisking]

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
So I can't write fluff text. Perhaps you can come up with a better explanation? If my fluff is weak, forgive me, since this is my first attempt at N&S material.

It's not just the fluff text. It's the ability itself. A 1-for-1 exchange of Chi points? Kinda pointless when the mean loss on a 1 point Chi attack is 3.5 points. Yeah, you get the physical damage too but that might not be all that much. Also, against chi masters this ability is going to be sloooooow. You'll probably beat them to death before you deplete their chi in a meaningful way.

[glitterboy2098]

Originally posted by glitterboy2098.
So I can't write fluff text. Perhaps you can come up with a better explanation? If my fluff is weak, forgive me, since this is my first attempt at N&S material.

It's not just the fluff text. It's the ability itself. A 1-for-1 exchange of Chi points? Kinda pointless when the mean loss on a 1 point Chi attack is 3.5 points. Yeah, you get the physical damage too but that might not be all that much. Also, against chi masters this ability is going to be sloooooow. You'll probably beat them to death before you deplete their chi in a meaningful way.

actually, it falls under the normal chi combat effects, the way of transfer is just different.

so each attack would reduce the opponents chi by 1D6 points.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Actually Sinestus is right. In game Negative Chi is considered an evil thing. Look at Snake Style kung fu (the masters of negative chi) for instance, the style requires a blood oath. Look at the abilities themselves, two out of three are killing techniques.

Once again, guys, your personal houserules are not gamerules.

From Ninjas and Superspies, page 118:

"Negative chi is used by those trained in Snake Style or Tien Hsueh. This negative chi is not necessarily evil, but it is based on the forces of nonlife, and it prevents healing in living things."

While it highlights Snake Style and Tien Hsueh as those that use negative chi, there is nothing in the rulebook itself that states arts like Tai Chi, Zanji Shinjinken ryu, and Aikido cannot use negative chi.

While your Patrialy correct, its a "Grey Area".

The Statement "Negative chi is used by those trained in Snake Style or Tien Hsueh" Implies only people trained in those 2 Arts can use Negative chi. either the Words "only used by" or "Commonly Used by" would better define the Statement.
no, There is no Limiter place by the Statement dislowing other styles to use it.
nor dose the Statement Imply others out side these two styles can actually use it either.

It Up to The Individual Reading the book to/Running the game to decide how this staement affects game play.

[sinestus]

There is nothing wrong with a good-aligned character using underhanded tactics. There is nothing wrong with an honorable-aligned character using underhanded tactics, either.

"Good" just means you are concerned with the welfare of others. "Honorable" just meant you have a code of behavior that you quasi-rigidly adhere to.

hmm

by most codes of honor i've seen,
being sneaky and stabbing a guy when he's not looking is still dishonerable

which is basically what you're going for here.
stabbing his chi, while he's busy defending his body....

especially, since no counter technique is given.

but i guess it does all kinda depend on how you define "honor"... which is a whole other argument all together...

[Nekira Sudacne]

Actually Sinestus is right. In game Negative Chi is considered an evil thing. Look at Snake Style kung fu (the masters of negative chi) for instance, the style requires a blood oath. Look at the abilities themselves, two out of three are killing techniques.

Once again, guys, your personal houserules are not gamerules.

From Ninjas and Superspies, page 118:

"Negative chi is used by those trained in Snake Style or Tien Hsueh. This negative chi is not necessarily evil, but it is based on the forces of nonlife, and it prevents healing in living things."

While it highlights Snake Style and Tien Hsueh as those that use negative chi, there is nothing in the rulebook itself that states arts like Tai Chi, Zanji Shinjinken ryu, and Aikido cannot use negative chi.

While your Patrialy correct, its a "Grey Area".

The Statement "Negative chi is used by those trained in Snake Style or Tien Hsueh" Implies only people trained in those 2 Arts can use Negative chi. either the Words "only used by" or "Commonly Used by" would better define the Statement.
no, There is no Limiter place by the Statement dislowing other styles to use it.
nor dose the Statement Imply others out side these two styles can actually use it either.

It Up to The Individual Reading the book to/Running the game to decide how this staement affects game play.

false. it says that whith Chi Mastery you can pick from any of the list in that section.

it says that Snake Style uses negative chi.

ok. and LOOK! their art even has a special chi ability that only they can use. gee, wonder why it says they can. . .

other classes ARE spcifically allowed to pick negative chi mastery when it says they get one chi mastery skill of choice with no restrictions.


there is no other logical interpretation. anything else is your own personal thing aginst negative chi mastery.

[Colonel Wolfe]

While your Patrialy correct, its a "Grey Area".

The Statement "Negative chi is used by those trained in Snake Style or Tien Hsueh" Implies only people trained in those 2 Arts can use Negative chi. either the Words "only used by" or "Commonly Used by" would better define the Statement.
no, There is no Limiter place by the Statement dislowing other styles to use it.
nor dose the Statement Imply others out side these two styles can actually use it either.

It Up to The Individual Reading the book to/Running the game to decide how this staement affects game play.

false. it says that whith Chi Mastery you can pick from any of the list in that section.

it says that Snake Style uses negative chi.

ok. and LOOK! their art even has a special chi ability that only they can use. gee, wonder why it says they can. . .

other classes ARE spcifically allowed to pick negative chi mastery when it says they get one chi mastery skill of choice with no restrictions.


there is no other logical interpretation. anything else is your own personal thing aginst negative chi mastery.

Using on the Text Passage Provided by Heritic888. The Passage he provided neither Supports or Denies the abilitiy to pick up Negative Chi powers for people using forms besides Snake and Tien hsueh.
Said Statement can be used by a "Text Strict" Gm to disallow non-Sanke & Tien Hsueh form taking negative Chi powers, As many people seam to do.

I support Neither View. as My N&SS book is in another state.

Not once have I ever seen any GM disallow other styles from taking negative chi powers.

Geez, guys, all this stuff is just basic Taoist philosophy. "Dark chi" is yin. Yin is not "evil", nor is yang "good". One promotes health, and one extinguishes it --- both can be used for good or bad applications.

In fact, according to Chinese thought, too much of either is bad for you either way.

Well, the Game is Ningas and SuperSpies.... not "Taoist Philosphy: The Role playing Game"
yes, in Real world Taoist Philosphy, Neither Yin or yang are good or bad.
But Deamons and Chi-Powers dont Exist in a Real wold either.
Deamons who rely heavly on Negative Chi to preform acts of Evil, could Place a "Evil" View on Negative Chi, Weather it is evil or not. and Its also a set of Game Rules. Players & Gm's are allowed to Interpite and Alter Rules as they see fit so they better Work of the Style of Play the prefer.

I get the Feeling if i played N&SS/Mystic China with Heritic it would be steped in plenty of Eastren culture and philosphy, and would make one heck of a Role Playing experince. to bad i just moved from the Tampa bay area. I respect your knowledge on the Subjects you post about, but sometimes a Game is a Game, it dosent have to Agree with what its based on. (I know, the Robotech RPG is completly 180 form the series in many places)

[Nekira Sudacne]

While your Patrialy correct, its a "Grey Area".

The Statement "Negative chi is used by those trained in Snake Style or Tien Hsueh" Implies only people trained in those 2 Arts can use Negative chi. either the Words "only used by" or "Commonly Used by" would better define the Statement.
no, There is no Limiter place by the Statement dislowing other styles to use it.
nor dose the Statement Imply others out side these two styles can actually use it either.

It Up to The Individual Reading the book to/Running the game to decide how this staement affects game play.

false. it says that whith Chi Mastery you can pick from any of the list in that section.

it says that Snake Style uses negative chi.

ok. and LOOK! their art even has a special chi ability that only they can use. gee, wonder why it says they can. . .

other classes ARE spcifically allowed to pick negative chi mastery when it says they get one chi mastery skill of choice with no restrictions.


there is no other logical interpretation. anything else is your own personal thing aginst negative chi mastery.

Using on the Text Passage Provided by Heritic888. The Passage he provided neither Supports or Denies the abilitiy to pick up Negative Chi powers for people using forms besides Snake and Tien hsueh.
Said Statement can be used by a "Text Strict" Gm to disallow non-Sanke & Tien Hsueh form taking negative Chi powers, As many people seam to do.

I support Neither View. as My N&SS book is in another state.

by that logic, no one can take any chi mastery because it dosn't say plainly they can take positve chi master either. or nutral chi mastery.

[Colonel Wolfe]

by that logic, no one can take any chi mastery because it dosn't say plainly they can take positve chi master either. or nutral chi mastery.

Dude, I'm not Saying the Rulse forbid it or allow it, I'm saying someon could read it to be that way, Calm down.
but...
Snake Style or Tien Hsueh can take Negative Chi powers, Which makes your "no one" Statement innocrect.

By that reasoning, then anything --- from guns to martial arts to kitchen knives --- can be argued to be "evil", too.

Daily on the NRA mailing List i read, the Flamers Quite frequently efer to guns as "Evil".

as i Said, I could cause a point of View that the Powers are Evil. Just Like peopel say Guns are Evil b/c they Cause Murders.
Yes, an Objest is inhrently Neutral, but in the Hand of evil it will do Evil. a Deamon who uses his powers to Crush babies Skulls is using a tool for a purpose. a Deamon slayer who uses the Same power to defeat a Deamon could said to be doin good. like i Said:

The Deamon would put a "Evil" View on Negative Chi, Weather it is evil or not.

[sinestus]

hmm...
now i gotta dig out the book...

i though in N&SS there were alignments that COULD be honerable, but there was an actual honor code you had to add to the alignment to fit the bill...

'cause just saying that you "just have to follow a code" is like saying "I can't kill puppies" is valid as my honor code, and thus entitles me to take the honerable only styles...