when the Coalition opts to RELEASE mages and D-bees they capture in Chi-Town

[Plane]

Noticed this on page 32 of Coalition War Campaign, in the right column after it emphasizes the CS never releases captured supernatural beings

D-bees "80% are sentenced to death, 8% to scientific research, 10% imprisoned for 20 years to life and 2% are released"
Magic practitioners and rogue psychics "60% are sentenced to death, 30% imprisoned .. 10% are released (most of those released are psychics)."

Since it says 'most' and not 'all' this indicates besides your usual rogue psychic release there are occasional Practitioner-of-Magic releases.

Note this isn't the borderlands, it is street encounters "within the borders of CS cities" so we're not talking about the Burbs (that's not a CS City) we're talking about Chi-Town itself.

This makes you wonder more about the situations involved here. Like I'd think the most common justification would be "let's follow that mage to his allies and kill all of them!" but there could be other motivations, like maybe it's a nice Mystic who hates vampires and they promise (after robust interogation) not to come back to Chi-Town and to head south and go slay vampires?

I could see this as a way the Vanguard might pick up recruits too, surely they have muggle allies within the CS police (and Psi-Net is usually involved in processing mages) who could notify them to follow any mages they release, possibly kill or recruit them, etc.

if 1 in 10 is the average between the mages (released less often) and rogue psychics (released more often) I'm not sure what thee numbers would be if we separate, maybe something like 1% and 11% instead of 10% ? Dunno

1 in 50 D-Bees getting released is especially interesting. They often suffer anguish during incarceration, but a trial occasionally lets them go.

Do we assume that's usually into slavery following the "special and rare authorization permits" mentioned on pg 31 under City Access by Race? Yeah probably, but it makes you wonder if there's odd exceptions where they're let out under their own reconnaissance into the Burbs (or Beyond) in hopes they seem reasonably okay and might do battle with roaming demons and xiticix and the like, which is a plus for the CS ?

This makes me think if a someone like Zippo turned himself over peacefully "hey I'm a D-Bee from an alternate earth, I can Flame On!" that letting him go is an option they might consider, they could tell from mind probes he has a history of fighting an evil wizard (Doombringer) and his demon, after all. That's a good variable to have out in the Burbs as a buffer!

Of course there's other options too - they 'suggest' he 'volunteer' for experiments - use his unlimited fire to heat the Chi-Town furnaces, etc. Probably depends on what police/judge you encounter and what the city's needs are.

[Grazzik]

Note these %s are just of the minority of mages/dbees that have the luck of being arrested of a serious crime rather than killed outright.

Mages released are likely missing a tongue and/or vocal cords to serve as a warning to others. Possibly also with various chunks of jagged metal roughly implanted throughout their body (don't need to be working cybernetics, just clusters of metal to disrupt the PPE). For more nastiness, some of those metal clusters could be explosive traps to deter magical/psychic healers.

Dbees released are likely 100% normal humans from other dimensions with no powers whatsoever. Most likely these unfortunates are from dimensions that do not have philosophies or ideas that conflict with CS ideals, as overly liberal ideas could be considered treason.

Even then, after all that, "release" probably means taken to the border and told to start walking at gun point. Don't kid yourself, the chances of this (mis)fortune happening to a PC or an NPC crucial to a campaign should be practically zero without deus ex machina by the GM and not really worth debating given the rarity of occurrence.

[Aermas]

It's not like they bag & tag everyone they meet. The Burbs is chock full of D-Bees. They don't care about most of them unless the D-Bee starts problems. The CS has its hands full dealing with actual threats, so they aren't going to care whether the D-Bee lives or dies but if something is dangerous or stands out they'll remove it. If someone walks up to a CS grunt/officer & showcases a weird power that would be filed under "causing problems" & you'll either kill them or lock him up forever to be experimented on

[glitterboy2098]

while these might be ones they capture inside chitown, i highly doubt they'd release them back into the city. more likely they'd ship them somewhere else first. possibly the burbs, more likely over the border into unclaimed territory.

and Grazzik is right, the way that the CS handles mages, if they release them at all, it'll be missing bits to cripple their casting.

[Incriptus]

If your arresting officer isn't a true believer sometimes you're released with a "fine" [Nazi's take bribes too]

[Marcethus]

If your arresting officer isn't a true believer sometimes you're released with a "fine" [Nazi's take bribes too]

I could see that. A corrupt ISS officer or Grunt could be accepting of bribes.

[Plane]

Mages released are likely missing a tongue and/or vocal cords to serve as a warning to others.
Possibly also with various chunks of jagged metal roughly implanted throughout their body
For more nastiness, some of those metal clusters could be explosive traps to deter magical/psychic healers.

I like the way you think! Yeah I can see this happening most of the time, with it being a plot device when it doesn't happen.
Of course if you intentioanlly flubbed installing a bomb in a cute technowizard's cybernetic eye you'd want to get a buddy to Mind Wipe you after so that Psi-Net can't easily find out you goofed on purpose.

Dbees released are likely 100% normal humans from other dimensions with no powers whatsoever.
Most likely these unfortunates are from dimensions that do not have philosophies or ideas that conflict with CS ideals

Yeah I could see them networking w/ the Empire of Humanity from After the Bomb at least, not sure who else.

Even then, after all that, "release" probably means taken to the border and told to start walking at gun point

The border of the city I assume? I don't think they'd normally use resources to push them beyond the entire burbs unless they seemed real dangerous.

It's not like they bag & tag everyone they meet.
The Burbs is chock full of D-Bees.
They don't care about most of them unless the D-Bee starts problems.

As specified in my first post we're talking about inner city policy not burbs policy.
This is what they do to people who go beyond the burbs around Chi-Town into the megacity itself.

while these might be ones they capture inside chitown, i highly doubt they'd release them back into the city. more likely they'd ship them somewhere else first. possibly the burbs, more likely over the border into unclaimed territory.

Oh yeah I didn't mean they got released back into the city I just assumed it was a Burbs dump.

I could see that. A corrupt ISS officer or Grunt could be accepting of bribes.

Oh for sure, gotta supplement that meager salary somehow

[Grazzik]

Dbees released are likely 100% normal humans from other dimensions with no powers whatsoever.
Most likely these unfortunates are from dimensions that do not have philosophies or ideas that conflict with CS ideals

Yeah I could see them networking w/ the Empire of Humanity from After the Bomb at least, not sure who else.

Even EoH may be a threat as they are aware of mutant societies and just the idea of that should not upset the CS propaganda machine.

I was thinking more along the line of Human dbees from subsistence level societies where eating and not being eaten is more important than considering one's inalienable rights or getting good with letters.

Even then, after all that, "release" probably means taken to the border and told to start walking at gun point

The border of the city I assume? I don't think they'd normally use resources to push them beyond the entire burbs unless they seemed real dangerous.

I was thinking the State border. In HoH pg 156, they air drop undesirables into the Hivelands. So, not much beyond likelihood that a transport sweeps by on the regular to take batches of undesirables to a wilderness staging point.

It could even be that former detainees hang around the staging area to rob/enslave/murder/eat new arrivals... a macabre form of community may have formed around the "catch and release" program.

It's not like they bag & tag everyone they meet.
The Burbs is chock full of D-Bees.
They don't care about most of them unless the D-Bee starts problems.

As specified in my first post we're talking about inner city policy not burbs policy.
This is what they do to people who go beyond the burbs around Chi-Town into the megacity itself.

CS cities come in all sizes and shapes, not just megacities. Some may be simply walled/enclosed cities. Others may be no different in their design than Burbs, only situated around a major military installation. Some may have sufficient safeguards and natural barriers that they don't require walls. Each will have their own spin on law enforcement, with local flavor impacting how lawbreakers are dealt with.

For example, after a week-long series of televised dbee executions, a deputy governor may be under the impression that what they got here is a failure ... to communicate. Some non-humans you just can't reach. So you get what they had here last week, which is the way ChiTown wants it... well, ChiTown gets it. The prisoners don't like it any more than humans... but the Law is the Law.

while these might be ones they capture inside chitown, i highly doubt they'd release them back into the city. more likely they'd ship them somewhere else first. possibly the burbs, more likely over the border into unclaimed territory.

Oh yeah I didn't mean they got released back into the city I just assumed it was a Burbs dump.

These are serious crime offenders. Probably not good enough to expel them to the Burbs as they are more than likely to find their way back in, possibly using Black Market contacts. Best to just dump them in the Wilds.

[ShadowLogan]

Re: released Mages
What if they are almost exclusively Vanguard (yeah I know not a thing when WB11 came out) already?

Re: released D-Bees
Would the CS not recruit D-Bee spies (or informants)? I mean we tend to think of CS Spies as humans or Lonestar mutants (like Dogboys), but it would make sense for them to recruit "non-desirables" as spies and informers, who can likely get into places their human/mutants might not be as easily accepted (or suspected of being CS Spies).

[Marcethus]

Dbees released are likely 100% normal humans from other dimensions with no powers whatsoever.
Most likely these unfortunates are from dimensions that do not have philosophies or ideas that conflict with CS ideals

Yeah I could see them networking w/ the Empire of Humanity from After the Bomb at least, not sure who else.

The CS is so close minded that they don't accept humans from another dimension. I don't see them networking with any power from another dimension. Especially since Bradford is the one working on the dimensional experiments when he's not supposed to.

[Marcethus]

Re: released Mages
What if they are almost exclusively Vanguard (yeah I know not a thing when WB11 came out) already?

Re: released D-Bees
Would the CS not recruit D-Bee spies (or informants)? I mean we tend to think of CS Spies as humans or Lonestar mutants (like Dogboys), but it would make sense for them to recruit "non-desirables" as spies and informers, who can likely get into places their human/mutants might not be as easily accepted (or suspected of being CS Spies).

I could see that being limited to the Burbs. Where an ISS Spector would want some info pertaining to major threats or a specific case that was being worked.

[Plane]

Even EoH may be a threat as they are aware of mutant societies and just the idea of that should not upset the CS propaganda machine.

eh I'm sure they've encountered rumiors of the mutant cities in South America by now, I don't think they'd just murder anyone who had the intel, long as they weren't advertising it to the general public as some utopia preferable to the CS

the CS after all is next door to magical kingdoms full of monsters, the theory of non-human civilization can't be suppressed, so they just spin it

I was thinking the State border. In HoH pg 156, they air drop undesirables into the Hivelands.
So, not much beyond likelihood that a transport sweeps by on the regular to take batches of undesirables to a wilderness staging point.

Seems reasonable yeah, like "if you make your way back to our burbs after this you'll think twice about entering the city proper"

CS cities come in all sizes and shapes, not just megacities. Some may be simply walled/enclosed cities. Others may be no different in their design than Burbs, only situated around a major military installation. Some may have sufficient safeguards and natural barriers that they don't require walls. Each will have their own spin on law enforcement, with local flavor impacting how lawbreakers are dealt with.

I suppose, though I don't know if those were the places CWC had in mind. Even if it's not mega-cized it feels like to be a CS city you should have walls or else I'd just call it a town.

These are serious crime offenders. Probably not good enough to expel them to the Burbs as they are more than likely to find their way back in, possibly using Black Market contacts. Best to just dump them in the Wilds.

yeah I could see it depending on severity too, like if a "rogue psychic" who's just an unregister major psychic child wanders in through a sewer while fleeing from a Boogie Man and gets saved by NTSET then I think they'd just get dumped back into the burbs, but if it was a more nefarious-seeming incursion then yeah a Xiticix dump

I don't think the CS jsut wants to give the Xiticix free food though, so they probably do put them in communities that are somewhat equipped to fight the Xiticix off, in hopes the people take out as many as possible.

Re: released Mages
What if they are almost exclusively Vanguard (yeah I know not a thing when WB11 came out) already?

The only Vanguard in CWC was the Vanguard Brawler D-Bee, the magic group was introduced in SoT3:sorcerers' revenge as I recall.

Re: released D-Bees
Would the CS not recruit D-Bee spies (or informants)? I mean we tend to think of CS Spies as humans or Lonestar mutants (like Dogboys), but it would make sense for them to recruit "non-desirables" as spies and informers, who can likely get into places their human/mutants might not be as easily accepted (or suspected of being CS Spies).

Yeah although I think they tend to work through them indirectly, like for example they have a history of working w/ the human parapsychologist from Beyond the Supernatural who runs Demon Busters (wonder if he's finally found out Victor Lazlo is alive) who includes D-Bees in his group.

The CS is suspicious of him since he 'consorts' with D-Bees but he's an easy go-between to get mages+monsters to deal with CS problems while their hands are still clean because they weren't dealing with them directly.

The CS is so close minded that they don't accept humans from another dimension.
I don't see them networking with any power from another dimension.
Especially since Bradford is the one working on the dimensional experiments when he's not supposed to.

Creating more Rifts is a big no-no since they're unpredictable and can lead to monster dimensions.
Humans from other dimensions often end up bringing cults dedicated to alien gods, like that goateed priest guy in Mercs on the CS watch list.
Someone who accidentally gets dumped here though, I could see them being willing to talk to (interrogate) and maybe not kill.
Psi-Net would be all over them vetting them and mind-probing and so on, no innate trust, but not impossible to gain it.

[taalismn]

And the literate CS Enforcers might not want to fill out all the paperwork concerned with processing an arrest on some jaywalking charge.
Vaporizations more often than not require just an accounting for missing charges on your e-clips when you turn in your weapons for regular inspections end of the workshift(provided they don't have some other means like a recorder chip to detect if you've discharged your weapon and when).

[ShadowLogan]

Re: released Mages
What if they are almost exclusively Vanguard (yeah I know not a thing when WB11 came out) already?

The only Vanguard in CWC was the Vanguard Brawler D-Bee, the magic group was introduced in SoT3:sorcerers' revenge as I recall.

Re: released D-Bees
Would the CS not recruit D-Bee spies (or informants)? I mean we tend to think of CS Spies as humans or Lonestar mutants (like Dogboys), but it would make sense for them to recruit "non-desirables" as spies and informers, who can likely get into places their human/mutants might not be as easily accepted (or suspected of being CS Spies).

Yeah although I think they tend to work through them indirectly, like for example they have a history of working w/ the human parapsychologist from Beyond the Supernatural who runs Demon Busters (wonder if he's finally found out Victor Lazlo is alive) who includes D-Bees in his group.

The CS is suspicious of him since he 'consorts' with D-Bees but he's an easy go-between to get mages+monsters to deal with CS problems while their hands are still clean because they weren't dealing with them directly.

Re: vanguard
The Vanguard organization not the race, I know they weren't a thing when WB11 was written and they where introduced well after the fact, but that doesn't mean they weren't something KS had kicking in the background to add to the setting. Something to consider especially with their proto-LLW wanna-be OCC they introduced in that book.

Re: D-Bees
Its probably also important to remember there are two types of D-Bees:
1. Humans from another dimension, who could theoretically be released if they don't reveal they are from another dimension and still be counted as D-Bee in said figures, or are close enough to human to pass for someone in a hurry at the end of their shift.
2. the straight non-humans. These would seem to be less likely to be released, but we also know the CS does allow them in as "labor". We also know the CS has classes that have to deal with them (like special forces types and I would think law enforcement) without a go-between. I'm sure there are CS officers (and such) who prefer to use a go-between, but the reality is that there could be officers who may prefer contact (as distasteful as it might be) due to it being more reliable (one less link in the "telephone game" to play, gauge their character, etc).

[Shorty Lickens]

I always assumed the released ones are brainwashed/indoctrinated to serve the CS in some capacity.
Prosek is not a blind dumb megalomaniac. He uses any tool he can to push his agenda, even if he plans to eliminate that tool later on down the line.

[Plane]

Re: released Mages
What if they are almost exclusively Vanguard (yeah I know not a thing when WB11 came out) already?

The only Vanguard in CWC was the Vanguard Brawler D-Bee, the magic group was introduced in SoT3:sorcerers' revenge as I recall.

Re: vanguard
The Vanguard organization not the race, I know they weren't a thing when WB11 was written and they where introduced well after the fact, but that doesn't mean they weren't something KS had kicking in the background to add to the setting. Something to consider especially with their proto-LLW wanna-be OCC they introduced in that book.

Ah you must mean the RCSG Scientist on page 82, that and Psi-Net/Psi-Bat foreshadow the CS accepting the supernatural on more of a level than the main book implies, which Psyscape's CS information elaborated on even further.

The CS isn't murdering scientists who are able to do Ley Line Rejuvenation and Ley Line Drifting, both of which seem a tad magic-esque.

If ever there were flexible go-betweens w/ the Vanguard and the CS deepstate it'd prob be Psi-Net/Psi-Bat/RCSG doing it.

Procuring scrolls of "Close Rift" for example would be VERY useful for the RCSG. It's technically a no-no since "don't use magic" but... in dire circumstances...

In most cases they could hide it behind "we hired a mercenary group and they had a mage close the rift, we didn't know he had a mage in his company!" if pressed about it, but I do think there is isolated sparing use of magic and contacts in emergencies, with a Scroll of Close Rift being a prime example of something the CS just does not have the tech to do with psionics alone, since Nega/Nulli only interferes with a spell mid-cast not post-cast

[Aermas]

I imagine a guy would know a guy who knows a guy in the Vanguard who would close the rift, & they'd allow him to "outrun" the pursuit. The CS does work side by side mages in the Minion War, as much as they have a totalitarian state mandated dislike for them, they are not "kill on sight" enemies like people seem to think

[Plane]

The CS does work side by side mages in the Minion War, as much as they have a totalitarian state mandated dislike for them, they are not "kill on sight" enemies like people seem to think

I hope I can read up more on this new policy perhaps it's in WB35 ?