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What if any time you cast that spell, Thoth can see through your eyes temporarily as if you were one of his followers (Deific Perception) ? That would explain why he might create a spell like that - he can empower people to tap into his vision, but he gets the advantage of access to whatever it is they are reading?

Even if you were capable of a permanent version of the spell, you might want to avoid it for that reason. You might want to terminate the spell prematurely instead of letting it last the full 10 minutes per level...

Plane wrote: Mon Apr 14, 2025 5:30 pmWhat if any time you cast that spell, Thoth can see through your eyes temporarily as if you were one of his followers (Deific Perception) ? That would explain why he might create a spell like that - he can empower people to tap into his vision, but he gets the advantage of access to whatever it is they are reading?

Even if you were capable of a permanent version of the spell, you might want to avoid it for that reason. You might want to terminate the spell prematurely instead of letting it last the full 10 minutes per level...

Wow, that is next level tin foil hat stuff...I love it. Goes well with how Cyberworks/Archie have those long-term maintenance deals for there vehicles so they can download the logs and see where you've been.

I think my one problem with this idea is the spell is such low PPE and linking to a deity in another dimension seems like something that would require a lot of PPE.

Warshield73 wrote: Mon Apr 14, 2025 6:07 pm linking to a deity in another dimension seems like something that would require a lot of PPE.

I dunno, it seems to be something they can just freely do via a natural ability which is how they get PPE through worshippers or see through worshippers eyes.

We never get a lot of detail about how casual worship works but I get the sense that people can just pray privately and any extra PPE they might have (say they're relaxing to regenerate it but already at 100% ?) goes to the god?

The idea basically is you're becoming a temporary worshipper by calling upon the spell, creating a connection.

Maybe this could work with any spell which names a specific god? Even though I've never seen him statted I alwayds figured the elf Lictalon had god-tier abilities (he ruled in the place of Demon Lords) and probably had similar deific powers so it might work for his spells too wherever they are.

"Yo, you finished translating that Old Ones porn?"
"I'm finishing. up this stuff by somebody named 'Xy'. Man, if it wasn't for my potions, I'd be insane by now!"

Thoth: "Okay...I REALLY didn't need to see that. Where's my extra-strength brain bleach?"

Plane wrote: Mon Apr 14, 2025 6:23 pm

Warshield73 wrote: Mon Apr 14, 2025 6:07 pm linking to a deity in another dimension seems like something that would require a lot of PPE.

I dunno, it seems to be something they can just freely do via a natural ability which is how they get PPE through worshippers or see through worshippers eyes.

We never get a lot of detail about how casual worship works but I get the sense that people can just pray privately and any extra PPE they might have (say they're relaxing to regenerate it but already at 100% ?) goes to the god?

The idea basically is you're becoming a temporary worshipper by calling upon the spell, creating a connection.

Maybe this could work with any spell which names a specific god? Even though I've never seen him statted I alwayds figured the elf Lictalon had god-tier abilities (he ruled in the place of Demon Lords) and probably had similar deific powers so it might work for his spells too wherever they are.

I see what your getting at but, and I haven't read the stuff on worshippers in a while, but isn't there a minimum threshold in order to receive the PPE? Like X number of worshippers in order for the deity to get the PPE? If so, hard to imagine that he could get the info from just the one mage but if not then I could see it working if he actually created it and it wasn't just named after him.

taalismn wrote: Mon Apr 14, 2025 7:58 pm "Yo, you finished translating that Old Ones porn?"
"I'm finishing. up this stuff by somebody named 'Xy'. Man, if it wasn't for my potions, I'd be insane by now!"

Thoth: "Okay...I REALLY didn't need to see that. Where's my extra-strength brain bleach?"

Isn't Old One porn just the pain and suffering of others?

Warshield73 wrote: Mon Apr 14, 2025 9:04 pm I haven't read the stuff on worshippers in a while, but isn't there a minimum threshold in order to receive the PPE?
Like X number of worshippers in order for the deity to get the PPE?

Not that I'm aware of, this all seems to start around pg 85 of D+G under "Traits Common to all True Gods" where it mentions "is the
power of faith (and the P.P.E. of the faithful), their prayers, offerings and sacrifices, that make a god what he/she is."

There's mention of a critical number of 10,000 being hypothesized before a god loses power (no hard rules) but that they're 'wavering' and 'feel in danger'.

Oddly enough it seems a lot higher in the first place when you're first attaining godlike abilities - on page 12 of DB11 (Dyval) for example - merely to become a "Regent" (sup-Lord) you need to command 200,000+ supernatural troops and 2+ million mortal worship or follow you, and a Deevil Lord (pg 13) requires 5x as many (1 million) supernatural followers and 50x as many (100 million) mortal worshippers.

Once you actually reach that tier and transform it seems like you can lose most of your worshippers and retain that foothold though, just something about that initial surge of energy?

Pg 87 of D+G under "sensing of PPE" mentions worshippers are "generators of PPE" and that they can instantly know PPE in any creature except other gods - and page 88 mentions under "Giving PPE to the Gods" :

"Gods get P.P.E. directly from their worshippers. How much P.P.E. they get varies according to the number of worshippers and according to the offerings or sacrifices made"

standard hourly PPE income is 158+/229+/302+ for heroic/epic/colossal realms...

I think this is in addition to whatever the god is passively spending to maintain stuff like miracles for their priests, keep in mind.

Pg 84 talks about the realms but I can't remember how they relate to average amount of worshippers across the megaverse.

When they tap higher amounts ("emergency reserve") it's 580+/790+/1020+ per hour, but then priests can't use abilities.

They can also do worship vigils where priest lead prayer to get even more in the 840+/1230+/1620+ range

There's also options for animal/humanoid sacrifice but I don't find it worth bothering with since we don't know how many need to be killed to calculate a % from.

Page 91 also has a 'siphon PPE' power which can just tap into any ley line nexus within the sightline of a worshipper - it's really difficult to set up but once they do they absorb at a "rate" of 10% of their max PPE per (time period???) with an unlimited duration. The main reason they end it is they can't use other deific powers while using it - but nothing prevents them from using it for other stuff like magic.

There's mention they can just "dump PPE into his deific realm" but not how it's stored - unless it means traditional means like tha Talisman spell or that PPE sphere spell. They can also use that PPE to regenerate their own or that of a worshipper.

It's mentioned this can "prevent others from siphoning power from a ley line" though I'm not sure how - there's not exactly finie PPE/melee when groups of ley line walkers tap these things, after all.

Belimar and Thoth are scary good at this since they only takes 15 or 20 PPE (instead of 2000) to initiate it. It's so crazy I thought it might be a typo and maybe 150/200 was intended. I'm not even sure if those two need to pay body investments - I'm assuming they don't, which is even scarier. No other god has a discount for this ability.

The -rate- thing needs answering though - like is it per melee action? round? minute? hour?

Warshield73 wrote: Mon Apr 14, 2025 9:04 pm Isn't Old One porn just the pain and suffering of others?

That's just the background music. It's like Barry White setting the mood.

taalismn wrote: Mon Apr 14, 2025 7:58 pm "Yo, you finished translating that Old Ones porn?"
"I'm finishing. up this stuff by somebody named 'Xy'. Man, if it wasn't for my potions, I'd be insane by now!"

Thoth: "Okay...I REALLY didn't need to see that. Where's my extra-strength brain bleach?"

Thoth REALLY wouldn't want to learn that as Xy, he wrote bad pornfic, whether accidentally or deliberately(just to troll all the other Old Ones).

I love the concept! Ties nicely into Thoth's backstory, how he can be so forgetful (actually distracted by taalismn fan fic?), his alignment, etc.

I wouldn't sweat the mechanics... the sharing could be an aspect of the spell he wove in and purposefully made it part of the PPE cost. As mere mortals, we should just roll with it.

Who knows, maybe it's been so long since he invented the spell that he's forgotten it and just thinks of the ideas he may glean from the near constant trickle of images as just genius inspiration...

It would be interesting what other spells could be attributed to gods, AIs, or other deific beings and if there are unknown mystic hacks or backdoors... or what unique spells they may have invented and taught their devotees/minions, only to tap into each incantation with relying on veneration...

Grazzik wrote: Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:41 pmI love the concept! Ties nicely into Thoth's backstory, how he can be so forgetful (actually distracted by taalismn fan fic?), his alignment, etc.

I wouldn't sweat the mechanics... the sharing could be an aspect of the spell he wove in and purposefully made it part of the PPE cost. As mere mortals, we should just roll with it.

Who knows, maybe it's been so long since he invented the spell that he's forgotten it and just thinks of the ideas he may glean from the near constant trickle of images as just genius inspiration...

It would be interesting what other spells could be attributed to gods, AIs, or other deific beings and if there are unknown mystic hacks or backdoors... or what unique spells they may have invented and taught their devotees/minions, only to tap into each incantation with relying on veneration...

If you have a spell situation as laid out in the OP would you use a saving throw to see if the information is shared? Also, would it apply to someone like a Mystic Mage who is not actually casting a spell, but intuitively using magic to create a desired effect?

Ah, like a party conference line?
"Okay, Tim the Enchanter's going to show us all how to cast a new Circle of Transformation....only he's unaware we're all listening in as he tries it. Let's see if he succeeds, or how badly he fails!"

Hmm, a save vs magic... as per WB4 pg 53, save is 17+ against Thoth's spell magic, but the invention of a spell seems more like a ritual that ups the save even higher... but wouldn't be against the idea... might not even be a conscious decision by the PC, but a secret roll by the GM.

Shooting from the hip here, but I'd say that intuitive magic users like a mystic are self developing the effect but, as they don't know about Thoth's spell hack, would not include that aspect. The spell hack is inherent in the incantation.

Taalismn, no reason why Thoth might not experiment by modifying the spell to add a conference line... could be to have a caster act as a mystical VPN for folks interested in certain Splugorth adult entertainment...