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What skill is there from any PB game that allows for a PC/NPC to be a distiller of alcoholic beverages (i.e. whiskey, vodka, etc.)?

Brewing does not cover distilling spirits (ignoring the odd reference to allow moonshine). Also not covered by Medicinal Brewing (same odd reference to allow moonshine). Could be covered by Holistic Medicine, but seems out of context as it may be more like rubbing alcohol. If there is a skill, can it be doubled to make it a professional level skill?

If NOT brewing, I'd guess Chemistry

darthauthor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 1:31 am If NOT brewing, I'd guess Chemistry

Yeah, you are right - Chemistry. Though, I'd probably say Analytical Chemistry as the description of that skill speaks of practical applications and synthesizing.

I looked up Wikipedia and some job descriptions. It seems commercial distilling revolves around a BSc or MSc of some kind, typically Chemistry, Microbiology, and more specifically the food sciences and distilling.

The core difference between moonshine and whiskey is being aged in oak barrels.
(trivia note:)

As for other spirits, it is mostly about what region/cultural area they are from, what they are made from and what herbs & spices are added during the fermenting or during the aging.

So..Brewing and herbology are the skills that cover what is needed to make different types of spirits.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 3:33 pm The core difference between moonshine and whiskey is being aged in oak barrels.
(trivia note:

Spoiler:

while american whiskey makers have to use "New Made" oak barrels for their product, the makers of Scotch can use 'old' (used) oak barrels.

)

As for other spirits, it is mostly about what region/cultural area they are from, what they are made from and what herbs & spices are added during the fermenting or during the aging.

So..Brewing and herbology are the skills that cover what is needed to make different types of spirits.

I'd wholeheartedly agree with you as it is the logical answer, but... this:

RUE/PF2 under Brewing and Medicinal Brewing wrote:Stronger types of alcohol, such as brandy, rum, and whiskey are not included

My house rule is that double taking Brewing allows spirits, but was hoping for a RAW approach.

Happy side note: I never noticed that the description for Botany is different in PF2 than in RUE - PF2 specifically says it includes farming and making food from plants... could at a stretch include alcoholic beverages maybe. At the very least, I can make use of the reference to farming.

What the skill in RUE is titled is "Brewing: Basic". So it doesn't cover everything. I would guess it is that way to keep the players from .....aaahhh...hummmm....going off on side-quests for their brewing habits.

My guess is that to be a brewing Master you need a Character Class unique skill or that you have to retire your char to live a life at brewing.

Though as I said earlier that main difference between MS and W is being aged.
The same might be said of between 2buckchuck and 'fine' wines.
*shrugs*
The basic tag says to me that PB is going...'Here you asked for it but we are not giving you the master skill so you keep playing 'the game' building your Char's exp. and not flopping around with a real (NPC) job in game.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:18 pm What the skill in RUE is titled is "Brewing: Basic". So it doesn't cover everything. I would guess it is that way to keep the players from .....aaahhh...hummmm....going off on side-quests for their brewing habits.

My guess is that to be a brewing Master you need a Character Class unique skill or that you have to retire your char to live a life at brewing.

Though as I said earlier that main difference between MS and W is being aged.
The same might be said of between 2buckchuck and 'fine' wines.
*shrugs*
The basic tag says to me that PB is going...'Here you asked for it but we are not giving you the master skill so you keep playing 'the game' building your Char's exp. and not flopping around with a real (NPC) job in game.

Fair comments.

However, despite this, PB keeps including ordinary OCCs in various games that find themselves in extraordinary circumstances. Particularly BTS, Dead Reign and a certain extent PFRPG. In those games, backgrounds with technical skills producing a product that in and of itself is boring can lead to great storylines. Yet, farmers and distillers are often overlooked due to a bias for mobile occupations and are sometimes relegated to peasant or vagabond types for want of an OCC. Yet, the OCC/skills for cooks, housekeepers, and miners can be stated out?

Even in the crazy world of Rifts, there are rules for the "job" of running a (black market) business or being a saloon barkeep. This recognizes that such ordinary people could again be thrust into adventure. The campaign concept that brought this up was around a group of people that started a new rural settlement. While brewers are often cast in such settings as a valued member of the community (boring!), distillers may have a more checkered reputation and side-eyed by other locals, as their product is more volatile, in more ways than one. A distiller may attract raiders or rebels looking for fuel/disinfectant/booze, have to fend off BM extortion/competition, engage in smuggling to avoid punitive taxes, and rake in profits that others may see as disreputable (for the local drama and interpersonal tension). Not every adventure is run into a cave, kill all the monsters, take all the loot, rinse, repeat.

Can I house rule an OCC for a distiller? Sure. Sometimes, I just wish PB could recognize that unnecessary and/or arbitrary details embedded in descriptions, such as "make moonshine, but not whiskey", can impair the ability of GMs and players to use RAW when elevating the storytelling aspect of their amazing game.

Grazzik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:33 pm

drewkitty ~..~ wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2024 3:33 pm The core difference between moonshine and whiskey is being aged in oak barrels.
(trivia note:

Spoiler:

while american whiskey makers have to use "New Made" oak barrels for their product, the makers of Scotch can use 'old' (used) oak barrels.

)

As for other spirits, it is mostly about what region/cultural area they are from, what they are made from and what herbs & spices are added during the fermenting or during the aging.

So..Brewing and herbology are the skills that cover what is needed to make different types of spirits.

I'd wholeheartedly agree with you as it is the logical answer, but... this:

RUE/PF2 under Brewing and Medicinal Brewing wrote:Stronger types of alcohol, such as brandy, rum, and whiskey are not included

My house rule is that double taking Brewing allows spirits, but was hoping for a RAW approach.

Happy side note: I never noticed that the description for Botany is different in PF2 than in RUE - PF2 specifically says it includes farming and making food from plants... could at a stretch include alcoholic beverages maybe. At the very least, I can make use of the reference to farming.

Though I think the lack of a "Brewing: Advanced" could be treated as a Pro version of B:B (it is a domestic skill after all), I have to wonder if it might also be covered by synergy skill(s) that allow one to expand the scope of an existing skill. Locksmith skill sort of has that where it requires Basic Electronics (for Rifts), but taking Electrical Engineer would be better (as it gives bonuses in those situations), I want to say Surveillance Systems is like this to (as some skills are only required for high-tech systems in Rifts, and they are lacking in PF2E, in 1E RT they suggest some skills are useful but not required which is missing in RUE/RMB) or Safe-cracking (Demolitions is not required in Rifts). Weapon Systems and Sensory Equipment Skills might also be similar (w/o WS you can't use a vehicle weapon system unless you also have pilot, and Sensory equipment is required for certain vehicle types though not listed as such in the respective pilot skills).

ShadowLogan wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2024 4:11 pm Though I think the lack of a "Brewing: Advanced" could be treated as a Pro version of B:B (it is a domestic skill after all), I have to wonder if it might also be covered by synergy skill(s) that allow one to expand the scope of an existing skill...

That's fair - I'd agree that cross-discipline skills and knowledge might apply a bonus or allow for specialized bevvies. For example, gin, chartreuse, absinthe, etc. are rather botanical/herbal and might benefit from the medicinal brewing, holistic medicine, or chemistry: pharmaceutical skills. Enhanced distilling techniques would come from chemistry or chemistry: analytical for less impurities. Heck, the streetwise skill might even be used to make pruno .

I'm wondering if the Cooking skill could be used. It can be a general skill or for specific styles of cooking. Maybe it could be used for distilled spirits? I haven't done it but I presume there's a recipe to follow so Cooking: Distilled Spirits could work.

I also think Chemistry: Pharmaceutical would be too much. Maybe it'd be okay for someone running a big company but it doesn't feel right for a Moonshiner.

Sambot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:59 amI also think Chemistry: Pharmaceutical would be too much. Maybe it'd be okay for someone running a big company but it doesn't feel right for a Moonshiner.

That's the intent - to have a distiller in a commercial context - as moonshine is singularly explicitly included in brewing for some reason.

Grazzik wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 10:37 pm

Sambot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 2:59 amI also think Chemistry: Pharmaceutical would be too much. Maybe it'd be okay for someone running a big company but it doesn't feel right for a Moonshiner.

That's the intent - to have a distiller in a commercial context - as moonshine is singularly explicitly included in brewing for some reason.

Isn't moonshine unaged whiskey? So if you can make moonshine you can make whiskey. It just takes longer to age. And I think that's why brandy, rum, and whiskey, along with champagnes and fine wines are excluded as they'd take longer than a campaign to be finished. I'd be okay with using either Brewing skill to make them. The second percentile
just won't be used until the product is opened.

For commercialization, The Rifter 32's Coalition Cookie OCC has a Mass Cooking skill. It lets them cook for 100 people before any penalties. That could be applied to Brewing large amounts alcohol for sale to the public. I think that would work better than Chemical: Pharmaceutical and it can be done without having a degree in chemistry.

Refined Tastes from the Journeyman Chef OCC could also be used to make different types of alcohol such as Irish and Scottish Whiskey. I'd consider both skills as a Technical Skill with the Domestic skills as a pre-requisite.

Sambot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:26 pm Isn't moonshine unaged whiskey? So if you can make moonshine you can make whiskey.

Not according to the RAW skill descriptions. They very expressly say moonshine OK, other spirits not allowed.

Journeyman Chef OCC

I like the idea... funny thing is that I just watched some Delicious in Dungeon on Netflix and it showcases how this OCC would fit an adventure perfectly.

Grazzik wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:49 pm

Sambot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:26 pm Isn't moonshine unaged whiskey? So if you can make moonshine you can make whiskey.

Not according to the RAW skill descriptions. They very expressly say moonshine OK, other spirits not allowed.

It also says that wine can't be made either and I think time is the issue. It takes years to age, so wine and spirits aren't something that can be made in most campaigns. If they were I think they would be included.

Journeyman Chef OCC

I like the idea... funny thing is that I just watched some Delicious in Dungeon on Netflix and it showcases how this OCC would fit an adventure perfectly.

That's cool.