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Hi guys,

I'm just now reading Rifts Dimension Book 10 Hades (DM10) and something occurred to me.

DM10 says Gargoyles of all types Rebirth in Hades some time after being killed on a non Hades plane.

But didn’t one or both of the Triax books say the number of Gargoyle eggs laid and the quick maturity into adulthood results in exponential population growth rates which would eventually overwhelm the NGR if not dealt with?

lf so, why has Hades not suffered such a fate? Not only do they have a huge number of newborns per year but those that died outside of Hades get reborn and this has been going on for many thousands of years. Why is Hades not literally overrun with Gargoyles?

the hades gargoyle population is different from the one in the gargoyle empire. the empire isn't subject to the resurrection stuff for example. that's part of a magic link thing to hades. so it is possible that hades gargoyles don't breed at the same rate, either due to the magic link's effects, or perhaps just careful controlling by the stronger demons. assuming the hades gargoyles even breed at all.

Psiberknight wrote:Hi guys,

I'm just now reading Rifts Dimension Book 10 Hades (DM10) and something occurred to me.

DM10 says Gargoyles of all types Rebirth in Hades some time after being killed on a non Hades plane.

But didn’t one or both of the Triax books say the number of Gargoyle eggs laid and the quick maturity into adulthood results in exponential population growth rates which would eventually overwhelm the NGR if not dealt with?

lf so, why has Hades not suffered such a fate? Not only do they have a huge number of newborns per year but those that died outside of Hades get reborn and this has been going on for many thousands of years. Why is Hades not literally overrun with Gargoyles?

I asked Carl Gleba about that on these forums back when the book came out, and while it seems the topic has been pruned since then, the answer was: because the author straight up forgot that Triax said that gargoyle's lay eggs.

He said it's one or the other: Either they are rebirthed in hades or reproduce naturally but not both.

Although given the rule of the thumb of the most recently printed material overruling previously printed material, one can assume that gargoyle's laying eggs has been retconned.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Psiberknight wrote:Hi guys,

I'm just now reading Rifts Dimension Book 10 Hades (DM10) and something occurred to me.

DM10 says Gargoyles of all types Rebirth in Hades some time after being killed on a non Hades plane.

But didn’t one or both of the Triax books say the number of Gargoyle eggs laid and the quick maturity into adulthood results in exponential population growth rates which would eventually overwhelm the NGR if not dealt with?

lf so, why has Hades not suffered such a fate? Not only do they have a huge number of newborns per year but those that died outside of Hades get reborn and this has been going on for many thousands of years. Why is Hades not literally overrun with Gargoyles?

I asked Carl Gleba about that on these forums back when the book came out, and while it seems the topic has been pruned since then, the answer was: because the author straight up forgot that Triax said that gargoyle's lay eggs.

He said it's one or the other: Either they are rebirthed in hades or reproduce naturally but not both.

Although given the rule of the thumb of the most recently printed material overruling previously printed material, one can assume that gargoyle's laying eggs has been retconned.

Rifts DB 10 was published in 2007 (August) for a first printing IINM
Rifts WB31 (Triax2) was published in 2010 (April) for a first printing IINM

That would make WB31 the more recently printed book I would think, and WB31 has as a hardware for Triax the EIR-60 (pg129-30) robot which is designed to destroy Gargoyle Nests (specifically the eggs). So if it was a recton, it's been rectoned back?

I think the easiest fix to this issue is to just have the reborn in Hades aspect only apply if the Gargoyle was born in Hades originally.

ShadowLogan wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Psiberknight wrote:Hi guys,

I'm just now reading Rifts Dimension Book 10 Hades (DM10) and something occurred to me.

DM10 says Gargoyles of all types Rebirth in Hades some time after being killed on a non Hades plane.

But didn’t one or both of the Triax books say the number of Gargoyle eggs laid and the quick maturity into adulthood results in exponential population growth rates which would eventually overwhelm the NGR if not dealt with?

lf so, why has Hades not suffered such a fate? Not only do they have a huge number of newborns per year but those that died outside of Hades get reborn and this has been going on for many thousands of years. Why is Hades not literally overrun with Gargoyles?

I asked Carl Gleba about that on these forums back when the book came out, and while it seems the topic has been pruned since then, the answer was: because the author straight up forgot that Triax said that gargoyle's lay eggs.

He said it's one or the other: Either they are rebirthed in hades or reproduce naturally but not both.

Although given the rule of the thumb of the most recently printed material overruling previously printed material, one can assume that gargoyle's laying eggs has been retconned.

Rifts DB 10 was published in 2007 (August) for a first printing IINM
Rifts WB31 (Triax2) was published in 2010 (April) for a first printing IINM

That would make WB31 the more recently printed book I would think, and WB31 has as a hardware for Triax the EIR-60 (pg129-30) robot which is designed to destroy Gargoyle Nests (specifically the eggs). So if it was a recton, it's been rectoned back?

I think the easiest fix to this issue is to just have the reborn in Hades aspect only apply if the Gargoyle was born in Hades originally.

I havn't had a good look at Triax 2 in ages, so I forgot. Good Catch!

Or we have two different kinds of demon that share the name "Gargoyle"
We see this with other things in other places so why not use it for our advantage.
The "Hadean Gargoyle" is a resurrecting race that reproduces very slowly
The "Mortalian Gargoyle" is a non-resurrecting race that reproduces very rapidly to try and keep up with the losses.

glitterboy2098 wrote:the hades gargoyle population is different from the one in the gargoyle empire. the empire isn't subject to the resurrection stuff for example. that's part of a magic link thing to hades. so it is possible that hades gargoyles don't breed at the same rate, either due to the magic link's effects, or perhaps just careful controlling by the stronger demons. assuming the hades gargoyles even breed at all.

I think you may be onto something here. See my reply to eliakon below.

eliakon wrote:Or we have two different kinds of demon that share the name "Gargoyle"
We see this with other things in other places so why not use it for our advantage.
The "Hadean Gargoyle" is a resurrecting race that reproduces very slowly
The "Mortalian Gargoyle" is a non-resurrecting race that reproduces very rapidly to try and keep up with the losses.

That is brilliant and it conforms to a sentence in Hades DB that said something along the lines of there is a myth that Gargoyles invaded Hades and lost and were made servants to demons and classified as sub demons. Perhaps a group of Mortalian Gargoyles invaded, lost and via evolution over long time became Hadean demons losing ability to procreate but gaining ability to Rebirth. Other Gargoyles clans that did not invade Hades retain ability to procreate.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Psiberknight wrote:Hi guys,

I'm just now reading Rifts Dimension Book 10 Hades (DM10) and something occurred to me.

DM10 says Gargoyles of all types Rebirth in Hades some time after being killed on a non Hades plane.

But didn’t one or both of the Triax books say the number of Gargoyle eggs laid and the quick maturity into adulthood results in exponential population growth rates which would eventually overwhelm the NGR if not dealt with?

lf so, why has Hades not suffered such a fate? Not only do they have a huge number of newborns per year but those that died outside of Hades get reborn and this has been going on for many thousands of years. Why is Hades not literally overrun with Gargoyles?

I asked Carl Gleba about that on these forums back when the book came out, and while it seems the topic has been pruned since then, the answer was: because the author straight up forgot that Triax said that gargoyle's lay eggs.

He said it's one or the other: Either they are rebirthed in hades or reproduce naturally but not both.

Although given the rule of the thumb of the most recently printed material overruling previously printed material, one can assume that gargoyle's laying eggs has been retconned.

Very nice, info from the man himself. Thank you very much.

I like ShadowLogan's idea.

There are multiple ideas that could work.

One idea that occured to me:
The gargoyles reborn in Hades could be the tipping point that fueled the Minion War.
Likewise, the Demon Lords could kill them in Hades to reduce their number. Out with the old; in with the new.