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That spell in TTGD requires spending an hour flaying off someone's skin.

It logically says that flaying someone like that will kill them, which makes sense for most humans...

But what about those who regen super-fast like demons (heal per minute) or Nightbane (heal per melee) ?

Seems like they could regen fast enough to survive getting their skin slowly cut off. Like maybe they'd have regrown a whole new set of skin by the end of it.

I was remembering this as one way to learn spells from others, as perhaps a way humans might gain access to Demon Magic without needing to become a Soulmancer.

If demons could regen their flesh then perhaps in theory they wouldn't die from it (then of course their PPE couldn't help fuel the ritual) and maybe several copies of their skin could be made by several mages who could then use it to cast magic the demon knew.

It also occured to me that there is a spell in TTGD (Fleshsculpting) to remove someone's flesh and let them stay alive. It seems like doing that would be a defence against Miclantecutli's command (nothing to flay, can't steal their magic)

It seems like humans don't naturally heal from that spell although some fleshsculpting healing spells can be used to regain the flesh.

It makes me wonder if that was cast on a demon or nightbane if they would remain fleshless (thus immune to the spellstealing ritual) or just auto regen it.

Obviously many variations of nightbane/demon are skeletal or otherwise non-fleshy and would already be immune to it, I'm just thinking of those who are obviously fleshy.

Nightbane in their facade do not regenerate. And don't say #3 on page 87 of the NB core book. That reg. is the Morphus's. Remember that Rifts books (like the RDC), A Different Game, are not applicable when talking about the NB Game.

If you meant a NB in their Morphus Then You Need To SAY THAT.
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The problem with cutting off a demon's skin is to keep it from immidiatly degrading into nothing. Same with the skin of a NB's morphus., except a NB's degrades into shadow. Which in turn evaporates into nothing.
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Soulmancy....why are you bringing up something from a different game when talking about the NB game?
Still the answer be 'nope', even though ether way they soil their souls.
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Fleshsculpting spell....*yawns* like you are trying to talk your way around from having the whole process not be EVIL.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Nightbane in their facade do not regenerate. And don't say #3 on page 87 of the NB core book. That reg. is the Morphus's. Remember that Rifts books (like the RDC), A Different Game, are not applicable when talking about the NB Game.

If you meant a NB in their Morphus Then You Need To SAY THAT.

Good point, I guess I figured it went without saying

I think there was something somewhere about facades healing a bit faster than normal humans (not sure if core book or maybe some later FAQ or sourcebook) but probably not called 'regeneration' and probably not fast enough to survive whatever damage equivalent would be "entire flesh sliced off".

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The problem with cutting off a demon's skin is to keep it from immidiatly degrading into nothing. Same with the skin of a NB's morphus., except a NB's degrades into shadow. Which in turn evaporates into nothing.

I know that's what happens when either of them die, but are we sure it's something that happens when they don't die?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Soulmancy....why are you bringing up something from a different game when talking about the NB game?

World Book 2: Darklands involves Hades (mentions Modeus by name) so it could come up.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Fleshsculpting spell....*yawns* like you are trying to talk your way around from having the whole process not be EVIL.

Cutting someone's flesh off would be very painful even if they didn't die from it, so that's still pretty harsh to do. I guess maybe there could be some anti-pain spell to make it more humane, but that's not mandatory.

Why did I say that about soulmancy....cause somewhere in my brain it was saying that such magic is detailed in a minions war book and those are rifts books. thus a different game.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Why did I say that about soulmancy....cause somewhere in my brain it was saying that such magic is detailed in a minions war book and those are rifts books. thus a different game.

Modeus' stats are also defined in Rifts or PF books and not NB books, yet they could be relevant to a Nightbane game since he's a player consorting with Lilith through proxies.

That is highly unlikely.
More likely is that one of the NPCs in the NB game books just has the same name as NPCs in other PB games.

Axlemania, CB3 pg161 discusses regeneration rates for Nighbane on Rifts Earth, in both Facade and Morphus. I would argue, however, that the description of Mictlantecutli's Command requires death of the victim for the spell to work. I also don't know if I would consider the spell Remove Skin to constitute flaying. If one does, however, and wants to have skinless despelled sorcerers in their game, then in service to the notion that the Command spell has to cruelly involve murder I'd be cool with someone else being sacrificed at the spell's completion, while the 'donor' survives via whatever combination of regeneration and psionic/magical healing is most befitting. In a Rifts game that includes Nightbane, I'd say that not only can a Facade simply regenerate the damage without additional healing, but the sacrificed life essence could come from a Soulmantic Soul Crystal, or Dyvalian Soul Gem.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:That is highly unlikely.
More likely is that one of the NPCs in the NB game books just has the same name as NPCs in other PB games.

That isn't likely at all if you read the collective context.

Curbludgeon wrote:I would argue, however, that the description of Mictlantecutli's Command requires death of the victim for the spell to work.

I don't think it's worded like that, just like an expected result of killing your usual human sorcerer.

Even if it was unavoidable: there's resurrection magic, so the situation of "I'm alive while some guy wears my flayed skin and controls my golems and zombies" is still a plausible one

No.
Period.
We know this because the spell specifically states that the flaying kills the victim.
Ergo, the flaying kills the victim.

eliakon wrote:the spell specifically states that the flaying kills the victim.
Ergo, the flaying kills the victim.

Think of the contrast though between:

"flaying will kill him"
vs
"flaying must kill him"

I think it's arguable possible for certain creatures to survive flaying (heck there's even a fleshsculptor spell to allow a wider variety of creatures to survive it)

If somehow flaying itself wouldn't kill a target (it's not like flaying is a guaranteed auto-kill, this isn't a damage-inflicting spell) then we could just require that the death of the victim must occur during the ritual, but it's strange it doesn't say that.

If "owner's death provides some or all of the PPE" is a requirement rather than a convenience, then perhaps a mage at 0 PPE is immune to this spell and you need to let them regen some PPE before you can impart their flesh with control of the magic?