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My quick over-view of Between the Shadows explicitly states Every Human and Many Animals, Nightbane, and Nightlords have dream pools.

There is a statement That the Nocturnes may have Living Nightmares as part of their Organization and Dream Stream Safe Houses, however that only implies traveling to the dream stream physically.

Part of me wants to say yes, another part says no ... Do we have any explicit evidence one way or the other?

Controlled or Free-Willed? Do Alien Intelligences often sleep/dream? (Other than magical compulsions or long periods of dormancy.)



Cr'Imson

They at least think they're free willed

I have a group of Nightbane who are currently embedded with the Nocturnes.
One of them has the Dreamer power.
I'm toying with an adventure in a vampire dreamstream.

Perhaps a vampire associate has the first dream he can remember since turning ... Perhaps the Intelligence is trying to reinsert itself? Perhaps it's an attack from the outside? Perhaps all vampires have the same dream stream? Perhaps sometimes a cake is just a cake? Perhaps the cake is a lie? Perhaps I should stop while I'm still ahead?

2010 the year we made contact wrote:SAL-9000: Will I dream?
Dr. Chandra: Of course you will. All intelligent beings dream. Nobody knows why.

Best way to put this.

Never really thought about it. But vampires do sleep during the day, so it seems reasonable to think they dream. at least i'd be inclined to say they do unless anything specifically says they do not.

Even if they did, do we.know every dreamer has a dream pool and dream self or could these be phenomena unique to races mentioned in the OP?

I figured elves/dwarves dreamed too but am not certain if they have dream pools.

Dream Makers mention humans only while Dream.Dancers lack that restriction which makes me imagine other races being Dancers too.

My group had this discussion almost 20 years ago. The question was do vampires just become dead bodies unable to awaken at all during the day or are they asleep and able to wake up if required.

In the Vampire Kingdom 1ed I remember saying that vampires could fight in the day if there sanctums are invaded but with penalties. This being the case we said that they sleep, and since they sleep they dream.

My 2 cents

Do Vampires Dream of Blood Sheep?

Now that is a topic of discussion: What do vampires dream about? That would be interesting for any supernatural creatures. Demons, Sphinxes...and what about Supernatural Intelligences? We know they dream but what would their dream pool be like?

Hell, I had a hard time with the dreams of a hatchling dragon.

Warshield73 wrote:Now that is a topic of discussion: What do vampires dream about? That would be interesting for any supernatural creatures. Demons, Sphinxes...and what about Supernatural Intelligences? We know they dream but what would their dream pool be like?

Hell, I had a hard time with the dreams of a hatchling dragon.

That was my point. If the Vampires are controlled, would they dream or would it be the Supernatural Intelligence that is dreaming?

It's not quite that simple. as the existance of the Heroic Vampire and the fact that vampires retain skills and memories of their previous life, what actually seems to happen is the origional soul is kicked out and the body animated by the vampire intelligence, but the fragment incorporates those memories and feelings into it's own. The vampires are NOT the direct puppets of the vampire intelligence after all, it has a high chance to impose mind control on them, but they can resist and rebell and even accept they are now evil but try to fight their creator anyway.

Also, there is that necromancer spell that turns the caster into a vampire without a vampire intelligence being involved at all.

Would be interesting to know what happens to Necromantic Master Vamps in Nightbane regarding if they have a dream pool or not.

I would say that most Vampire can recall from their mortal existences that they did dream, but do not recall specific details, like most mortals. Likewise, if they did retain the capability to dream, they are unable to or cannot recall the actual dream(s).

Assuming all humans, even those with IQ 3, have dream pools, perhaps anything with an IQ of 3 or higher has one?

Sorry, IQ 2 Orcs or humans reduced to 2 via brain injury.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:It's not quite that simple. as the existance of the Heroic Vampire and the fact that vampires retain skills and memories of their previous life, what actually seems to happen is the origional soul is kicked out and the body animated by the vampire intelligence, but the fragment incorporates those memories and feelings into it's own. The vampires are NOT the direct puppets of the vampire intelligence after all, it has a high chance to impose mind control on them, but they can resist and rebell and even accept they are now evil but try to fight their creator anyway.

Also, there is that necromancer spell that turns the caster into a vampire without a vampire intelligence being involved at all.

Never heard of that spell before. Where is that spell?

Thom001 wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:It's not quite that simple. as the existance of the Heroic Vampire and the fact that vampires retain skills and memories of their previous life, what actually seems to happen is the origional soul is kicked out and the body animated by the vampire intelligence, but the fragment incorporates those memories and feelings into it's own. The vampires are NOT the direct puppets of the vampire intelligence after all, it has a high chance to impose mind control on them, but they can resist and rebell and even accept they are now evil but try to fight their creator anyway.

Also, there is that necromancer spell that turns the caster into a vampire without a vampire intelligence being involved at all.

Never heard of that spell before. Where is that spell?

it's in rifts africa i think. or maybe mystic russia. originally, anyways. it is now in the book of magic as well, in the necro-magic section. level 14 spell called "return from the grave".

It was introduced in Mystic Russia, was not in Rifts Africa. More of a series of rituals over a year than a spell invocation.

I found it, that was a crazy spell

There is also the curse from the Land of the Damned in Palladium, can turn you into a secondary vampire without involving Vampire Intelligences.

Warshield73 wrote:My group had this discussion almost 20 years ago. The question was do vampires just become dead bodies unable to awaken at all during the day or are they asleep and able to wake up if required.

In the Vampire Kingdom 1ed I remember saying that vampires could fight in the day if there sanctums are invaded but with penalties. This being the case we said that they sleep, and since they sleep they dream.

My 2 cents

i agree with this, this is how our group handles it. I ran an adventure back in '16 and it was almost all done in the Dreamstream, and I set up basically a vampire utopia there, as vampires even staked can dream. (for our group anyways) and it was a really fun adventure. It went well.

Id say that the Wampyr, which isn't quite a Vampire, and the Vampire created through Necromancy would be able to dream... They are still essentially themselves.
Vampires linked to an Intelligence, however... They might just get glimpses of the dark desires of their master, instead.

I'd like to think Vampires still have dream pools, but they would be heavily altered the further along (Wampyre>Secondary>Wild>Master) they are along that path of corruption.

Strigoi would be an itneresting case since they're not linked to any particular AI (rather to ALL of them) but also the Dark.

Only if they enter a REM cycle.

Dream pools are known to collapse when someone dies (though apparently not so quickly that a Morpheomoth cannot make their escape first)

We know vampires die.

However they could be thought of being "reborn" in a sense, where a new dream pool is created for a new sentient entity. Sort of like new pools would be formed whenever a fetus is conceived.

I expect these "new pools", if they exist, would be very different. The brain-memories of the being the vampire once was has been appropriated by an essence fragment of an alien intelligence, after all.

that AI would probably also have a dream pool itself, and the close connection between the two would mean that it's pool would probably be close to any vampires it creates (masters by agrement or secondaries by bite) and then perhaps vampires created by them would be a bit more distant, and so forth.

Strigoi probably mean (since they bond to all vampire AIs) that all of these 'Lesser Old Ones' dream pools are slowly growing closer together as the strigoi expand their legions, with the Dark as a nexus hub of them all.

Perhaps the Dark plans to unify all vampire AIs and become an Old One itself, assuming it isn't one already.

One neat idea I had was perhaps The Dark is the remnants of Xy which Thoth shed. Maybe if it absorbs all the vampires it will become stronger than Xy was before!

Or maybe the Dark is just Apsu