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Is there any reason or rules that would prevent a Juicer from getting M.O.M. Implants?

This came up in a discussion on Facebook about trying to make an NPC as close to a someone from television/movies that was an ace pilot and driver but also crazy, saying for a Crazy to undergo Hyperion Juicer treatment and it made me realize that there was nothing to my knowledge (other than Juicer's and Crazies always believing themselves superior to the other) that prevented either a Crazy to get Juiced or a Juicer to get M.O.M. Implants.

Yes actually it mentions, I believe in Mindworks, that using MoM on a juicer will cause them to burn out.

I imagine the result would be akin to a Splugorth kamikaze bioborg.

Mind you, Delphi Juicers might come close to Crazy psionics, but actual MOM implants? That's shoehorning some major chemical imbalances next to each other.

eliakon wrote:Yes actually it mentions, I believe in Mindworks, that using MoM on a juicer will cause them to burn out.

Unless you're that one MOM-augmented Juicer variant that I think eventually explodes like a small bomb and can't be detoxed.

Nightmask wrote:

eliakon wrote:Yes actually it mentions, I believe in Mindworks, that using MoM on a juicer will cause them to burn out.

Unless you're that one MOM-augmented Juicer variant that I think eventually explodes like a small bomb and can't be detoxed.

Ultras?
I thought they were more magic-boosted.

He's talking about the Mega-Juicer that literally burns out. They were created using a variant version of MOM implants in combination with latent psychics and the juicer drugs.

=Jay-Zs.

Killer Cyborg wrote:=Jay-Zs.

^This^

Marcethus wrote:He's talking about the Mega-Juicer that literally burns out. They were created using a variant version of MOM implants in combination with latent psychics and the juicer drugs.

I do not think he was talking about mega juicers (I thought they where boarder line TW not mom.) There is a psi-juicers think they are the delta juicers.

Back in the early 90's, I had a player that wanted to try a Crazy Juicer. This was before most of the Rifts material had been released (in fact, it was limited to RMB, Sourcebook 1, and Vampire Kingdoms). I placed 2 restrictions. First was that the character had 6 months of active time, due to the overwork on his system. The other was that due to the massive chemical interference with the MOM implants, he had to roll for a different (non-cumulative) random insanity every day, It turned out to be a very interesting character, and not really that overpowered for what we were doing.

dragonfett wrote:Is there any reason or rules that would prevent a Juicer from getting M.O.M. Implants?

This came up in a discussion on Facebook about trying to make an NPC as close to a someone from television/movies that was an ace pilot and driver but also crazy, saying for a Crazy to undergo Hyperion Juicer treatment and it made me realize that there was nothing to my knowledge (other than Juicer's and Crazies always believing themselves superior to the other) that prevented either a Crazy to get Juiced or a Juicer to get M.O.M. Implants.

Officially the two systems are incompatible. I forget where I've seen it, but I have seen it.

The simplest approaches to go with here are:
-a Crazy who thinks he/she is a Hyperion Juicer (just give them a custom insanity that provides similar end result in terms of piloting, though it shouldn't be as good as a HJ)
-a Hyperion Juicer who has developed an insanity(s)

I know one thing it does not prohibit..

Crazies are not stopped from using JAEP

Really looking over the Mega-Juicers and Delphi Juicers and I saw that those conversions only work on latent psychics. What I am asking about specifically is someone who is already a Juicer getting M.O.M. implants or a Crazy getting the Juicer conversion.

dragonfett wrote:Really looking over the Mega-Juicers and Delphi Juicers and I saw that those conversions only work on latent psychics. What I am asking about specifically is someone who is already a Juicer getting M.O.M. implants or a Crazy getting the Juicer conversion.

I would suspect that those two conversions work because they are specially balanced, and the latency and such. A normal person getting the normal conversions is probably going to burn out. There is a reason that they don't just randomly experiment with juicer upgrades. My thinking here is that we have two systems that DO use MoM and juicer. If they could do a third... it seems they would.

Nightmask wrote:

eliakon wrote:Yes actually it mentions, I believe in Mindworks, that using MoM on a juicer will cause them to burn out.

Unless you're that one MOM-augmented Juicer variant that I think eventually explodes like a small bomb and can't be detoxed.

Megajuicers are a special case, but if Mindwerks is to be believed, any juicer/crazy combo just burns out like, real fast... and I bet the Toten Angel HAS tried it.

Blue_Lion wrote:

Marcethus wrote:He's talking about the Mega-Juicer that literally burns out. They were created using a variant version of MOM implants in combination with latent psychics and the juicer drugs.

I do not think he was talking about mega juicers (I thought they where boarder line TW not mom.) There is a psi-juicers think they are the delta juicers.

DelPHI juicers, but even those don't have MOM implants

eliakon wrote:

dragonfett wrote:Really looking over the Mega-Juicers and Delphi Juicers and I saw that those conversions only work on latent psychics. What I am asking about specifically is someone who is already a Juicer getting M.O.M. implants or a Crazy getting the Juicer conversion.

I would suspect that those two conversions work because they are specially balanced, and the latency and such. A normal person getting the normal conversions is probably going to burn out. There is a reason that they don't just randomly experiment with juicer upgrades. My thinking here is that we have two systems that DO use MoM and juicer. If they could do a third... it seems they would.

Well they do randomly experiment with them, at least some do, that's how many of those variants came about. Human life holds little to no value to many in Rifts even centuries after the Cataclysm.

Honestly if you are a juicer a lot of the crazy powers are somewhat redundant. Basically you would be getting some psionic abilities and a whole bunch of crazy and even a shorter life span.

Nightmask wrote:

eliakon wrote:

dragonfett wrote:Really looking over the Mega-Juicers and Delphi Juicers and I saw that those conversions only work on latent psychics. What I am asking about specifically is someone who is already a Juicer getting M.O.M. implants or a Crazy getting the Juicer conversion.

I would suspect that those two conversions work because they are specially balanced, and the latency and such. A normal person getting the normal conversions is probably going to burn out. There is a reason that they don't just randomly experiment with juicer upgrades. My thinking here is that we have two systems that DO use MoM and juicer. If they could do a third... it seems they would.

Well they do randomly experiment with them, at least some do, that's how many of those variants came about. Human life holds little to no value to many in Rifts even centuries after the Cataclysm.

And those experiments seem to not provide much benefit though.
For all their experimentation they have managed to come up with six juicer variants (at least two of those more or less by accident), and adapt the process to a dozen or so races that would not normally be able to get it.
Which is, again, why I say that if it was as easy as "stack upgrade A with upgrade B to get super result C" then that would be a regular offering. Its utter lack, combined with the highly specialized nature of the existing MoM/Juicer is pretty telling to me.

I would say that many of the features of the Crazy would actively fight the Juicer implants and the changes it makes. Any Crazy Juicers would require the MOM implants and bio-comp to be carefully calibrated (i.e. Experimental)