PU-2 Immortal Dragon... immune to disease?

[Stattick]

I'm writing up an immortal dragon from PU-2. It doesn't say anything about the character having the Immortality superpower or mega-power. It also doesn't say that the character is immune to disease. That seems like an oversight to me. Anyway, I was wondering if there's an official ruling or errata regarding this, or if I need to burn a super power selection to take Impervious to Disease & Illness.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Dragons in PB are already effectively immortal and immune to mortal illnesses w/o any super powers. So it is more 'the writer knowing something about the system and not reiterating it.'

[eliakon]

Dragons in PB are already effectively immortal and immune to mortal illnesses w/o any super powers. So it is more 'the writer knowing something about the system and not reiterating it.'

Except that the HU Imortal Category characters are not the same Dragons as the rest of the game.
They don't get any of the other racial abilities, because they aren't the same race. Just like the 'demigods' don't get any of the powers of the Demigod class, the 'gods' and 'demon lords' don't get prototypical deific powers, et multiple cetera.


However it would be pretty possible to simply rule that it is immune to disease, to be honest that is not a huge power boost to grant a mega-hero. If you want to have a longer life span talk to the GM since all members of this power category already get to have a life span measured in centuries if not longer.

[barna10]

Yeah...talk to the GM...he may be PMing you right now...

[Reagren Wright]

Well if go by Palladium Attributes bonuses used in Rifts, Chaos Earth, Splicers, etc a P.E. attribute
over 30 means impervious to disease. So by default you would be immune to disease that way.
I also feel it's a safe bet a dragon is not going to catch the flu or the measles.

[Stattick]

Well, character has a PE of ~12. It's 12 at the moment, but might go up w/ skill selection and such. But I'm sure that it won't go up to 30.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Well if go by Palladium Attributes bonuses used in Rifts, Chaos Earth, Splicers, etc a P.E. attribute
over 30 means impervious to disease. So by default you would be immune to disease that way.
I also feel it's a safe bet a dragon is not going to catch the flu or the measles.

Correction: PE over 30 is effectively impervious to most diseases. it leaves an opening for really virululent or custom engineered superbugs to get them, whereas flatly immune is flatly immune.

(I bring it up because really, those supervillian designed superbugs are all that really matters in game context. Not like the GM ever says your PC gets a cold even if you don't have an immune to diseases power. so the only diseases you'd have to really worry about are the diseases you won't be immune to)

[Axelmania]

Dragons in PB are already effectively immortal and immune to mortal illnesses

They have lifespans but they seem to be ignored with some ancient dragons (can't even remember a single NPC dragon ever being referenced as dying of old age) so I have to wonder if 'average' lifespan is just that, only a statistic from them getting killed off before getting old enough.

Is this something related to MDC creatures being immune to SDC illnesses or something which can't extrapolate to SDC settings? Their high attributes, damage capacity, magic, psionics, healing speed, not needing to eat, would all be great helps in preventing or dealing with illnesses, but I can't remember them being immune to them.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Dragons in PB are already effectively immortal and immune to mortal illnesses

They have lifespans but they seem to be ignored with some ancient dragons (can't even remember a single NPC dragon ever being referenced as dying of old age) so I have to wonder if 'average' lifespan is just that, only a statistic from them getting killed off before getting old enough.

Is this something related to MDC creatures being immune to SDC illnesses or something which can't extrapolate to SDC settings? Their high attributes, damage capacity, magic, psionics, healing speed, not needing to eat, would all be great helps in preventing or dealing with illnesses, but I can't remember them being immune to them.

I do pick my words carefully most times. This time is not that odd time I didn't.

Nope, nothing to do with them being MDC. Everything to do with being Creatures of Magic.

There is also that in the RW most illnesses do not cross the species lines except in very very very rare situations.

[SittingBull]

Dragon or not, the category makes them immortal. The category gives them the power immortality and thus immune to all diseases.

[eliakon]

Dragons in PB are already effectively immortal and immune to mortal illnesses

They have lifespans but they seem to be ignored with some ancient dragons (can't even remember a single NPC dragon ever being referenced as dying of old age) so I have to wonder if 'average' lifespan is just that, only a statistic from them getting killed off before getting old enough.

Is this something related to MDC creatures being immune to SDC illnesses or something which can't extrapolate to SDC settings? Their high attributes, damage capacity, magic, psionics, healing speed, not needing to eat, would all be great helps in preventing or dealing with illnesses, but I can't remember them being immune to them.

I do pick my words carefully most times. This time is not that odd time I didn't.

Nope, nothing to do with them being MDC. Everything to do with being Creatures of Magic.

There is also that in the RW most illnesses do not cross the species lines except in very very very rare situations.

PU-2 Dragons though are not Creatures of Magic (unless the GM chooses to make them such)
They are possibly supernatural beings since they are Mega-Heroes....
But this isn't Rifts and this isn't PF, and these are not those kinds of dragons anyway.

And in Palladium diseases seem to cross the species barrier all the time (heck it is one of the staple tropes of the game.... there have been tons of examples of it across all the game lines.....)

[eliakon]

Dragon or not, the category makes them immortal. The category gives them the power immortality and thus immune to all diseases.

Where does it say this? I missed it, can you provide the citation for me please?

[SittingBull]

My bad. Seems not all of the immortals get immortality (rolls eyes). Lesser demons, monster, godling, demon lord, merman, human immortal, avatar of god, and demi-god DO get the immortality power besides what they roll.

[drewkitty ~..~]

If the PU2 dragons are not SN, then they effectively are since they are MH's. Based on text in the MH PC.
---

However,.....

The PU2 lists Archetypes and all but three of the archetypes within the PU2 immortals PC are supernatural in nature from just reading the AT name. Lesser demon, dragon, angel, godling, demon lord, mermaid/-man, Faerie folk, avatar of a god, demigod, immoral golem (its magic),fallen DG/GL/DL, undead/vampire, astral being/Ghostly spirit, On the surface of just the name all of these are a part of the SN.

Along with this I might mention that the HU books tend to avoid using the SN term to avoid any confusion on whether or not the chars have any of the superpowers that have SN in their titles.
------
Yes, Eli is technically correct in the strict reading the RAW.

[eliakon]

If the PU2 dragons are not SN, then they effectively are since they are MH's. Based on text in the MH PC.
---

However,.....

The PU2 lists Archetypes and all but three of the archetypes within the PU2 immortals PC are supernatural in nature from just reading the AT name. Lesser demon, dragon, angel, godling, demon lord, mermaid/-man, Faerie folk, avatar of a god, demigod, immoral golem (its magic),fallen DG/GL/DL, undead/vampire, astral being/Ghostly spirit, On the surface of just the name all of these are a part of the SN.

Along with this I might mention that the HU books tend to avoid using the SN term to avoid any confusion on whether or not the chars have any of the superpowers that have SN in their titles.

Yes, Eli is technically correct in the strict reading the RAW.

Errrr
That is not what I said in the slightest.
I said, quite specifically, that they were not Creatures of Magic. Since CoM has a specific meaning in Palladium it is rather important to be accurate in stating what is a CoM. With out a doubt none of these are CoM with out the GM further ruling that they are.

I also specifically stated that they were all possibly supernatural beings since they were Mega-Heroes. Again this is because according to the core book all mega-heroes can be considered supernatural beings. And these are mega-heroes.

Thus an Immortal Dragon is a supernatural being, but it is not a creature of magic unless the GM chooses to make it one.

THAT is what I said (although I was possibly a bit to hedging about my 'are supernatural').
Please be accurate in your claims about my statements.
Thank you.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I was not saying you said that.

I said what I said.

Describing my last post....
I Made a statement.
I Made an Observation about the PU2 immortals text.
I Made an Observation about HU text as a whole.
I Said eli was correct in the strict reading of RAW.

See I said four different things.

[Axelmania]

What if shapeshifters are vulnerable to the diseases of every race they can assume the form of?

[Nekira Sudacne]

What if shapeshifters are vulnerable to the diseases of every race they can assume the form of?

depends on the kind of shapeshifting. Shapeshifting which notes that it changes nothing of the beings natural abilities or attributes (for example, a dragon having thousands of MDC, fire breath and all powers while as a rabbit) would be just as immune to rabbit diseases as he would be in dragon form. but a being like an Auto-G which takes on the natural attributes and abilities of the race they become would be vunerable.

Different types of shapeshifting use different rules.

[Axelmania]

Conversely, just because we know humans are immune to some diseases rabbits carry does not mean dragons are immune to them.

...learned one Chaing-Ku who got lagomorphic crabs during an experimental phase in early hatchling years.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Dragons are not innately immune to disease, but we can safely assume that diseases are no more likely to cross the racial barrier than normal. it's quite rare for a disease to effect more than one species. so while dragons can catch diseases, the disease they get are not likely to be able to be passed on to humans and vice versa.

there will of course be exceptions.

[Axelmania]

I don't think we can safely assume that at all. It's a big whole for GMs. Does being a shapeshifter make one more resistant or less resistant?

They do tend to have a higher PE which I think gives a bonus though.

[eliakon]

I don't think we can safely assume that at all. It's a big whole for GMs. Does being a shapeshifter make one more resistant or less resistant?

They do tend to have a higher PE which I think gives a bonus though.

Why would it make you any less resistant.
Your not a rabbit you just look like one.
There are a couple of (rare) things that do actually turn into what they are mimicking....but most shape shifters are not actually doing that.

The GM is free to make a disease cross the species barrier if they like of course, that is what Rule 0 exists for.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I don't think we can safely assume that at all.

Do you have a reasoning for that?

It's a big whole for GMs. Does being a shapeshifter make one more resistant or less resistant?

There is no reason to think shapeshifting has any effect on disease resistance actually.

They do tend to have a higher PE which I think gives a bonus though.

well yes, though I don't think that's what we're refering to.

[Axelmania]

My reasoning for not assuming anything unknown about dragon biology is because we don't know anything about this area of it.

Is there a reason to think shape-shifting doesn't affect disease resistance? Ever heard of jack of all trades, master of none? Changing the body is a big ability, maybe there's a downside to it.

How about a cluttered or empty Memory B Cell pool, for example? If shapeshifters become vulnerable to the diseases corresponding to the form they take:
1) if they hadn't taken on that form before, they would not reasonably have the B Cells in their immune system to mount a response
2) if they had taken it on before, they might retain the cells, but there is a limited amount of room to store these cells up, so if you were amassing immune system memory to diseases specific to HUNDREDS or speceis, you might run out of room and have to throw out some of them.

This is more of an issue to consider with more biology-based shapeshifters like autoGs than with creatures of magic like changelings/dragons but it could still be a problem they could face, and a great door for GMs to mess with them.

[eliakon]

My reasoning for not assuming anything unknown about dragon biology is because we don't know anything about this area of it.

Is there a reason to think shape-shifting doesn't affect disease resistance? Ever heard of jack of all trades, master of none? Changing the body is a big ability, maybe there's a downside to it.

There is a simple reason to state that there is no such weakness in canon. The simple reason is that the canon does not say that it exists. Since your request is for people to prove a negative "there is no evidence that it doesn't exist" its not logically valid.
It is like saying that because there is no statement that there is a city of deep ones off the coast of Massachusets in After the Bomb, that it is some how vaguely canon to assume that there is one. The GM can add one, but it would be just that, a GM adding something.

How about a cluttered or empty Memory B Cell pool, for example? If shapeshifters become vulnerable to the diseases corresponding to the form they take:
1) if they hadn't taken on that form before, they would not reasonably have the B Cells in their immune system to mount a response
2) if they had taken it on before, they might retain the cells, but there is a limited amount of room to store these cells up, so if you were amassing immune system memory to diseases specific to HUNDREDS or speceis, you might run out of room and have to throw out some of them.

This is more of an issue to consider with more biology-based shapeshifters like autoGs than with creatures of magic like changelings/dragons but it could still be a problem they could face, and a great door for GMs to mess with them.

This would literally only apply to things like Auto-Gs and Shifter Mice.
Since only those are actually turning into the copied thing.
Everything else is not turning into the creature in question. They are not biologically that creature, they are still what they were. Thus it doesn't matter....the disease would have to jump the species barrier to infect them, it doesn't matter what their immune system does or does not have it would be purely a matter of if the disease can infect their actual race.

[Axelmania]

I am not arguing that the weakness exists, just that it may or may not, it is undefined and the GM can make a call.

The GM would not be "adding" anything, just judging an undefined situation.

We only know about species barriers between real species, we do not know if species barriers exist between changelings/dragons and other species they mimic.

Whether a disease can is up to the GM.

[eliakon]

I am not arguing that the weakness exists, just that it may or may not, it is undefined and the GM can make a call.

The GM would not be "adding" anything, just judging an undefined situation.

Its not undefined. There is no weakness, and the claim that everything that does not exist must be explicitly spelled out is the logical fallacy of 'proving a negative' If there was a weakness it would be spelled out. Barring that, then there isn't a weakness.

We only know about species barriers between real species, we do not know if species barriers exist between changelings/dragons and other species they mimic.

If disease infects rabbits, then it would have to cross the species barrier to infect a dragon. This is because a dragon is not a rabbit, even if it currently is in the shape of a rabbit it is not actually a rabbit. Thus being different species it would, by definition have to be a multi-species disease to infect both of them. This is literally the text book definition of 'crossing the species barrier'.

Whether a disease can is up to the GM.

Yes, a GM can add anything they want. But as written no, diseases are not species hopping.

[Axelmania]

Weakness is the wrong term here anyway, we're talking about susceptibility or vulnerability. A lot of things aren't spelled out when statting races. No printout of an animal's stats in Palladium has ever said "this animal is susceptible to these diseases".

Disease susceptability is something that by default can be expected to apply to a lot of things, but maybe not some other things. It's left up to GM assessment. There are probably some monsters out there alike to elementals where a virus taking control of their cellular DNA simply would not make sense but it would not say immune to viruses in their description.

Species-hopping diseases already exist, why do you think they wouldn't in Palladium Books' worlds?

The term "zoonosis" exists to describe diseases which can be communicated across different species, unless we're told this excludes dragons, they are also a possibility. Dragons with rabies!

[Nekira Sudacne]

My reasoning for not assuming anything unknown about dragon biology is because we don't know anything about this area of it.

We know that dragon biology is not the same as human biology. that's cannon. so the logical conclusion that different diseases target different biologies applies because that's how diseases themselves work. if disease A is targeted to biology B, and a dragon is biology not-b, then the fact it is unlikely to effect biology not-b is a product of the disease itself, not the dragon in question. and note I only said it was unlikely, not impossible. I admited in my initial post that diseases that cross species boundries were rare. So...you interjected to point out something I had already stated exist and that the fact a few excpetions might exist mean I was completely wrong?

Is there a reason to think shape-shifting doesn't affect disease resistance? Ever heard of jack of all trades, master of none? Changing the body is a big ability, maybe there's a downside to it.

For accusing me of making unsafe assumptions, "I think this power might have downsides that are never mentioned in text" is a huge, unsafe, and by definition unsupported assumption, isn't it?

How about a cluttered or empty Memory B Cell pool, for example? If shapeshifters become vulnerable to the diseases corresponding to the form they take:
1) if they hadn't taken on that form before, they would not reasonably have the B Cells in their immune system to mount a response
2) if they had taken it on before, they might retain the cells, but there is a limited amount of room to store these cells up, so if you were amassing immune system memory to diseases specific to HUNDREDS or speceis, you might run out of room and have to throw out some of them.

This is more of an issue to consider with more biology-based shapeshifters like autoGs than with creatures of magic like changelings/dragons but it could still be a problem they could face, and a great door for GMs to mess with them.

A: If you are not talking about dragons, why are you bringing it up in a thread about dragons?
B; Auto G's have no immunity or resistance to disease anyway and are stated to actually become a member of the species they transform into, and so would naturally be vunerable to their diseases like any other race. That's not even under debate.

I think you wanted to make a valid point, but picked a really bad example to make your case. Dragons, as they explictly lose nothing about their own biology by metamorphing, down to none of their abilities or attributes changing, would clearly be no more or less vunerable to diseases as a rabbit than as as a dragon. even really contorting your argument it's completely unconvincing.

on the other hand auto G's are stated to completely become what they turn into, and are considered that race for all purposes. at which point, no one would say they would NOT be vunerable to the local plauges if they turn into a local. They work via completely different mechanisms.

[Axelmania]

Your argument about targeting biologies only seems relevant to 1-species diseases. I'm talking about zoonotic species which we already know cross species barriers.

Disease susceptability isn't addressed in most species so there's room for GMs to make fun calls all over the place. Maybe elves are more prone to head lice.

Probability-wise, vulnerability to disease in altered forms might explain why hatchlings can only stay shapeshifted for limitated durations: limited exposure and then reverting to the strong form to adapt where your natural biology protects you.

Dragons can lose aspects of their biology when they shapeshift. Losing wings would generally mean losing wing-based flight, for example. If they morphed into a species that lacked a mouth that would also impede fire breath.

[eliakon]

Your argument about targeting biologies only seems relevant to 1-species diseases. I'm talking about zoonotic species which we already know cross species barriers.

Well to be fair, you weren't at the start.
You were talking about just being able to pick up the diseases from what you were looking like.
You are now talking about zoonotic (this is known as 'moving the goalposts')

Disease susceptability isn't addressed in most species so there's room for GMs to make fun calls all over the place. Maybe elves are more prone to head lice.

And its fully in the realm of house rules.
Which means that it has zero evidentiary value in discussing how the rules actually work.

Probability-wise, vulnerability to disease in altered forms might explain why hatchlings can only stay shapeshifted for limitated durations: limited exposure and then reverting to the strong form to adapt where your natural biology protects you.

Other than the fact that your biology is exactly the same in both forms.
And the fact that the duration is extended on places like ley lines
And the fact that some dragons can already stay unlimited as hatchlings..

Dragons can lose aspects of their biology when they shapeshift. Losing wings would generally mean losing wing-based flight, for example. If they morphed into a species that lacked a mouth that would also impede fire breath.

You would lose only those abilities that you can not physically use in the new form due to shape.
If you don't have wings you can not flap wings
If you don't have hands you can not write with them
This does not change their biology in any way though, and more than amputating a persons hand changes their biology.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Your argument about targeting biologies only seems relevant to 1-species diseases. I'm talking about zoonotic species which we already know cross species barriers.

And I was specifically talking about diseases that do not cross species barriers. so...wait, were you disagreeing with me?

Disease susceptability isn't addressed in most species so there's room for GMs to make fun calls all over the place. Maybe elves are more prone to head lice.

GM's can call anything they want. Weather or not it's canon. So this argument dosn't really address any points I made either.

Probability-wise, vulnerability to disease in altered forms might explain why hatchlings can only stay shapeshifted for limitated durations: limited exposure and then reverting to the strong form to adapt where your natural biology protects you.

An interesting theory supported by no canonical facts. again: I don't care if a GM wants to call it that way, but a GM's call does not canon make.

Dragons can lose aspects of their biology when they shapeshift. Losing wings would generally mean losing wing-based flight, for example. If they morphed into a species that lacked a mouth that would also impede fire breath.

RUE Page 159 disagrees with you. It says they keep all their abilities regardless of the form and gain no features of the shape they take. it's purely cosmetic and nothing else. not even mass changes. They are still a full sized dragon in the shape of a bunny rabbit, but have none of the features of a rabbit and retain all the features of a dragon.

[Axelmania]

Does this mean a wingless dragon in the shape of a bird cannot fly and a winged dragon in the shape of a rabbit can fly?

Gonna drop the species barrier thing I'm not even sure if we were disagreeing about something there.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Does this mean a wingless dragon in the shape of a bird cannot fly and a winged dragon in the shape of a rabbit can fly?

No. Wingless dragons who possess the power of flight can also fly no matter what form they take, if that form has wings or not, because changing their shape has no effect on their available powers. a wingless dragon who can fly can such as a basilisk or Kido-Mi dragon, can fly if they take the form of a bird or a snake, and a winged dragon can likewise fly regardless of if they are in the form of a bird or a snake. same with all other abilities. they lose nothing by metamorphasis and retain full abilities. even their MASS is stated to be unchanged. a dragon in the shape and size of a cat still weighs 30 tons.

More simply: the dragons metamorphasis is like using a skin on a video game character. their appearance and hitbox have changed, but absolutely nothing about their abilities or power or speed have been altered in any way.

So remember, if you see Fluffy suddenly start flying circles while breathing fire and taking hundreds of bullets, occasionally landing and crushing a tank with it's weight and paws, it's probablly a dragon.

Gonna drop the species barrier thing I'm not even sure if we were disagreeing about something there.

Sounds good to me.

[Nightmask]

Does this mean a wingless dragon in the shape of a bird cannot fly and a winged dragon in the shape of a rabbit can fly?

No. Wingless dragons who possess the power of flight can also fly no matter what form they take, if that form has wings or not, because changing their shape has no effect on their available powers. a wingless dragon who can fly can such as a basilisk or Kido-Mi dragon, can fly if they take the form of a bird or a snake, and a winged dragon can likewise fly regardless of if they are in the form of a bird or a snake. same with all other abilities. they lose nothing by metamorphasis and retain full abilities. even their MASS is stated to be unchanged. a dragon in the shape and size of a cat still weighs 30 tons.

More simply: the dragons metamorphasis is like using a skin on a video game character. their appearance and hitbox have changed, but absolutely nothing about their abilities or power or speed have been altered in any way.

So remember, if you see Fluffy suddenly start flying circles while breathing fire and taking hundreds of bullets, occasionally landing and crushing a tank with it's weight and paws, it's probablly a dragon.

Of course there's no way they're retaining their mass like that, because there's no way you can have something the size of a rabbit weight 30 tons and it go unnoticed because it couldn't possibly move about in virtually any area without sinking into the ground or collapsing floors and the like.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Does this mean a wingless dragon in the shape of a bird cannot fly and a winged dragon in the shape of a rabbit can fly?

No. Wingless dragons who possess the power of flight can also fly no matter what form they take, if that form has wings or not, because changing their shape has no effect on their available powers. a wingless dragon who can fly can such as a basilisk or Kido-Mi dragon, can fly if they take the form of a bird or a snake, and a winged dragon can likewise fly regardless of if they are in the form of a bird or a snake. same with all other abilities. they lose nothing by metamorphasis and retain full abilities. even their MASS is stated to be unchanged. a dragon in the shape and size of a cat still weighs 30 tons.

More simply: the dragons metamorphasis is like using a skin on a video game character. their appearance and hitbox have changed, but absolutely nothing about their abilities or power or speed have been altered in any way.

So remember, if you see Fluffy suddenly start flying circles while breathing fire and taking hundreds of bullets, occasionally landing and crushing a tank with it's weight and paws, it's probablly a dragon.

Of course there's no way they're retaining their mass like that, because there's no way you can have something the size of a rabbit weight 30 tons and it go unnoticed because it couldn't possibly move about in virtually any area without sinking into the ground or collapsing floors and the like.

I'm only quoting the rules. I'm not required to say they make sense

[Nightmask]

Does this mean a wingless dragon in the shape of a bird cannot fly and a winged dragon in the shape of a rabbit can fly?

No. Wingless dragons who possess the power of flight can also fly no matter what form they take, if that form has wings or not, because changing their shape has no effect on their available powers. a wingless dragon who can fly can such as a basilisk or Kido-Mi dragon, can fly if they take the form of a bird or a snake, and a winged dragon can likewise fly regardless of if they are in the form of a bird or a snake. same with all other abilities. they lose nothing by metamorphasis and retain full abilities. even their MASS is stated to be unchanged. a dragon in the shape and size of a cat still weighs 30 tons.

More simply: the dragons metamorphasis is like using a skin on a video game character. their appearance and hitbox have changed, but absolutely nothing about their abilities or power or speed have been altered in any way.

So remember, if you see Fluffy suddenly start flying circles while breathing fire and taking hundreds of bullets, occasionally landing and crushing a tank with it's weight and paws, it's probablly a dragon.

Of course there's no way they're retaining their mass like that, because there's no way you can have something the size of a rabbit weight 30 tons and it go unnoticed because it couldn't possibly move about in virtually any area without sinking into the ground or collapsing floors and the like.

I'm only quoting the rules. I'm not required to say they make sense

I know, just pointing out that one glaringly obvious bit that clearly should have been removed in editing because of how incredibly wrong it is. It's about as bad as the Ant-Man movie having them say he retained his mass and weight when he CLEARLY couldn't (at least DC's Atom had explicit control over both his size and mass/weight).

[Daniel Stoker]

Maybe they're always subconsciously flying in small bunny form so as to not crush floors and people unless they chose not to say in a fight?


Daniel Stoker

[Axelmania]

Carlotte the White might subconsciously fly to avoid crushing Raoul Lazarious

[SittingBull]

Does this mean a wingless dragon in the shape of a bird cannot fly and a winged dragon in the shape of a rabbit can fly?

No. Wingless dragons who possess the power of flight can also fly no matter what form they take, if that form has wings or not, because changing their shape has no effect on their available powers. a wingless dragon who can fly can such as a basilisk or Kido-Mi dragon, can fly if they take the form of a bird or a snake, and a winged dragon can likewise fly regardless of if they are in the form of a bird or a snake. same with all other abilities. they lose nothing by metamorphasis and retain full abilities. even their MASS is stated to be unchanged. a dragon in the shape and size of a cat still weighs 30 tons.

More simply: the dragons metamorphasis is like using a skin on a video game character. their appearance and hitbox have changed, but absolutely nothing about their abilities or power or speed have been altered in any way.

So remember, if you see Fluffy suddenly start flying circles while breathing fire and taking hundreds of bullets, occasionally landing and crushing a tank with it's weight and paws, it's probablly a dragon.

Of course there's no way they're retaining their mass like that, because there's no way you can have something the size of a rabbit weight 30 tons and it go unnoticed because it couldn't possibly move about in virtually any area without sinking into the ground or collapsing floors and the like.

And thats why I never played a hatchling. That whole constant weight issue was a deal breaker. I felt, with hatching hth, they should have gotten the ability to control their weight at maybe level 3 or 4.

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is that PB has no good rules covering getting illnesses.