NG2 book of bigness.

[kaid]

Okay this really is a pretty mammoth book. In reading after work last night I just barely got to the first half of the book basically to the end of the power armors before I had to head in to work this morning.

Probably going to have to go through it a few times to really fully absorb all the various armors. In general the majority are very light to light power armors. Some are hardly bigger than unpowered EBA and at least a couple that I saw if you got the electrical model were like 200k credits which is pretty amazingly inexpensive for the protection and extra attacks. Seems like most of the really light armor has one or more of the universal energy link hookups which is nice because the smallest armor rarely has much in the way of built in weapons so nice slick hookup for whatever man/borg portable weapon you chose to utilize is nice.

I think the lightest MDC one I saw was around 150 MDC and the marjority fall in the range of 180-220 MDC. The ones that are more heavily armored tend to be the oversized ones like the samson/delilah/midas and there were one or two others that were in the 9+ foot range and those had 250+ and the new MK3 sampson has 325 MDC.

Armors that caught my eye.

Blue hawk this is basically the naval version of the red hawk. It lacks the super boosters of the red hawk but makes up for it with excellent underwater propulsion so good land/sea/air armor. It is less armored than a samas but still good protection. It also has one very handy capability that could make it really hot for lake/sea based adventurers and that is when it is hovering it can drop a sonar buoy on a 25 foot tether so it can fill the roll of modern day anti submarine warfare helicopters as a scout/picket asset for a bigger ship to extend the sonar detection range and sniff around for sub surface threats. Unlike modern day helicopters if it sniffs something out it has the option to dive in after it and its pretty well armed with torpedos to lay a hurting on sub surface threats. All in all very good power armor and fills a roll not really filled by anything else currently.

Grease monkey I tend to play operators and this is basically a combat operator armor. Designed for emergency repairs in high threat situations. Good armor protection and pretty fast and agile with hover thrusters that allow it to have a stable hover option for reaching those hard to reach places on giant robots. This also I think is armor somebody like a robot controller OCC from NG1 would drool over because it has high end diagnostic computers built in that can plug into robots battle assessment ports used by mechanics to determine what condition the suit is in. The fun part is if you can get into direct contact with the robot vehicle/power armor and hook this up it gives you a big boost to your hacking ability so good for commando raids to disable armor without destroying it.

Samson MK3 the old samson was always a group favorite and the new one is just the old samson but more better. Basically it gains a good bit of extra armor and weaponry for the cost of about 20MPH off its top speed which still makes it one of the fastest non flying non leaping power armors in rifts. From what I could see the samson MK3 is the most heavily armored and physically largest of the NG power armors.

The forester originally people saw this and thought lumber jack armor but its actually more of a light scout/wilderness scout type armor. Used for pathfinding/blazing trails/sneaking about in the forests. Nice overall light power armor with some interesting capabilities and useful for somebody like a wilderness scout to mark/create trails.

The ironwing which had some art that caused a bit of a conversation previously is a pretty solid flying power armor. Good mix of missiles and grenade launchers for deadly alpha strike or to combat things like swarming xititicx. This is a pretty reasonable match for something like a smiling jack samas or old style samas bit less armor but bit more firepower.

Thunder hound Apparently it was based on a joint project with the CS to develop a light really basic power armor for dog boys as the CS is thinking about upgrading the dog boys combat capabilities. There is a human version and also an on the down low DBee configurations to this armor. This is very basic power armor few frills other than the chain sword but still nice especially for DBees with less human body styles but still humanoid to at least have a viable basic power armor option that they can use.

I am going to have to read the power armor section at least a few more times because there are so many of them they were kinda blending near the end in my brain so need to read them more so I can remember which is which a bit better.

I thumbed through the vehicle section but had not had a chance to read any of it so that is the goal for tonight after I finish packing for my trip.

I will say its nice seeing mike mumahs art is as good as usual and given his health scare very gratifying to see. Chuck Walton apparently went totally nuts for the NG because he has a TON of art in this book. Overall art quality is very high.

[Morik]

How many suits of regular body armor does the book have?

[kaid]

How many suits of regular body armor does the book have?

Depends if you are talking non EBA/armored clothing or envirionmental body armor. There are about 30 enviromental body armors all of the NG ones from all previous books and a few new ones. There are probably 15 or 20 non EBA armors like the older juicer armors/hunstman and what not and then there are the lines of armored non EBA clothing seen in the first sneak preview on drivethru RPG basically a mix and match huntsman line, street wolf line with things like armored dusters/trench coats and the hover cycle ride armor.

So the answer is LOTS hehe.

Ooops edit cause I forgot I had the index from the sneak peak for better numbers.

10 non EBA armor sets like juicers the old style huntsman armor
5 sets of hover cycle ride armor non EBA light armor
Street wolf line of armored clothing mix and match pieces
Huntsmans choice clothing mix and match pieces of armored MDS or SDC outdoors gear.

Looks like 18 Sets of EBA armor quite a few of these have been previously seen in the RUE main book/mercs/merc opts/cs navy but nice to have them all in one place.

[Giant2005]

It is interesting that Northern Gun tried to make a no-frills power armor suit to keep costs down and managed to go as low as 200k.
It helps reinforce Chipwell's technical superiority in that it was able to do the same thing but at less than half the price!

[Slight001]

Gladius kind of took a hit as it went from a heavy exoskeleton armor to an ultralight no frills ground PA that can only ever benefit from PA-Basic.

Mantis and Prophet are another pair of auto-dodge enabled Powered Armor... if anything the Cougar should have had an auto-dodge for all it's talk of being a highly mobile close quarters killer. Fairly sure a Prophet could do a better job in the hive lands then a cougar...

[Slight001]

It is interesting that Northern Gun tried to make a no-frills power armor suit to keep costs down and managed to go as low as 200k.
It helps reinforce Chipwell's technical superiority in that it was able to do the same thing but at less than half the price!

NG has a reputation to uphold for producing reliable systems that just keep going. Chipwell doesn't mind the occasional short, bad weld or self loosening bolt.

[kaid]

I also have to check but I believe the NG ones default stuff that is generic to all of their power armors is a more robust set of features than chipwell which cuts corners on the radios/optics. They also I believe have more armor than the chipwell which if I recall correctly has 120 MDC and the lowest end NG power armors were like 150 well other than the weird pit fighter arena power armor which is 100 MDC but made to be upgraded/modified to users tastes.

[kaid]

Gladius kind of took a hit as it went from a heavy exoskeleton armor to an ultralight no frills ground PA that can only ever benefit from PA-Basic.

Mantis and Prophet are another pair of auto-dodge enabled Powered Armor... if anything the Cougar should have had an auto-dodge for all it's talk of being a highly mobile close quarters killer. Fairly sure a Prophet could do a better job in the hive lands then a cougar...

Gladius being treated like power armor limits who can use it a bit but those who can use power armor even if you are only using it like PA-basic are still gaining a minimum of 2 attacks per round from the change and more as they level up. So bit smaller market but it overall is a buff to the gladius as it gets the double dipping of normal hand to hand and power armor hand to hand boosts.

[kaid]

Oh one funny bug I saw but I cannot recall which power armor had it has a restrained punch listed as 6d6 MDC and a two attack power punch rated at 2d4 MDC. I am guessing the restrained was supposed to be SDC not MDC but it struck me as funny in an anti hulk sort of smash. Don't make me restrained you won't like me when I am restrained!

[Slight001]

Gladius kind of took a hit as it went from a heavy exoskeleton armor to an ultralight no frills ground PA that can only ever benefit from PA-Basic.

Mantis and Prophet are another pair of auto-dodge enabled Powered Armor... if anything the Cougar should have had an auto-dodge for all it's talk of being a highly mobile close quarters killer. Fairly sure a Prophet could do a better job in the hive lands then a cougar...

Gladius being treated like power armor limits who can use it a bit but those who can use power armor even if you are only using it like PA-basic are still gaining a minimum of 2 attacks per round from the change and more as they level up. So bit smaller market but it overall is a buff to the gladius as it gets the double dipping of normal hand to hand and power armor hand to hand boosts.

Actually if you look they stripped out the Gladius's bonuses and instead restricted it to PA combat: Basic, so only +1 attack per melee and no more as they level up, save for those gained from their native hand to hand and boxing.

[DhAkael]

Still haven't seen; being north of the 49th. and having ONLY ONE STORE THAT CARRIES PALLDIUM PRODUCTS! (which, being the largest city in Canada is kinda pathetic)
I hope it is worth the $30+ (Can.) price tag.

[DhAkael]

Gladius kind of took a hit as it went from a heavy exoskeleton armor to an ultralight no frills ground PA that can only ever benefit from PA-Basic.

Mantis and Prophet are another pair of auto-dodge enabled Powered Armor... if anything the Cougar should have had an auto-dodge for all it's talk of being a highly mobile close quarters killer. Fairly sure a Prophet could do a better job in the hive lands then a cougar...

Gladius being treated like power armor limits who can use it a bit but those who can use power armor even if you are only using it like PA-basic are still gaining a minimum of 2 attacks per round from the change and more as they level up. So bit smaller market but it overall is a buff to the gladius as it gets the double dipping of normal hand to hand and power armor hand to hand boosts.

Actually if you look they stripped out the Gladius's bonuses and instead restricted it to PA combat: Basic, so only +1 attack per melee and no more as they level up, save for those gained from their native hand to hand and boxing.

I'll just ignore the ret-conn B/S and keep the original write-up from Rifts Merc's thanks kay bye.

[kaid]

Gladius kind of took a hit as it went from a heavy exoskeleton armor to an ultralight no frills ground PA that can only ever benefit from PA-Basic.

Mantis and Prophet are another pair of auto-dodge enabled Powered Armor... if anything the Cougar should have had an auto-dodge for all it's talk of being a highly mobile close quarters killer. Fairly sure a Prophet could do a better job in the hive lands then a cougar...

Gladius being treated like power armor limits who can use it a bit but those who can use power armor even if you are only using it like PA-basic are still gaining a minimum of 2 attacks per round from the change and more as they level up. So bit smaller market but it overall is a buff to the gladius as it gets the double dipping of normal hand to hand and power armor hand to hand boosts.

Actually if you look they stripped out the Gladius's bonuses and instead restricted it to PA combat: Basic, so only +1 attack per melee and no more as they level up, save for those gained from their native hand to hand and boxing.

I'll just ignore the ret-conn B/S and keep the original write-up from Rifts Merc's thanks kay bye.

I will have to do a direct comparison of the old style to the new write up on it. I would think even power armor basics boosts would match or better any bonuses the old writeup had. Although that said even if it was only +1 to melee over what it had previously thats still a pretty potent boost.

[Slight001]

Gladius kind of took a hit as it went from a heavy exoskeleton armor to an ultralight no frills ground PA that can only ever benefit from PA-Basic.

Mantis and Prophet are another pair of auto-dodge enabled Powered Armor... if anything the Cougar should have had an auto-dodge for all it's talk of being a highly mobile close quarters killer. Fairly sure a Prophet could do a better job in the hive lands then a cougar...

Gladius being treated like power armor limits who can use it a bit but those who can use power armor even if you are only using it like PA-basic are still gaining a minimum of 2 attacks per round from the change and more as they level up. So bit smaller market but it overall is a buff to the gladius as it gets the double dipping of normal hand to hand and power armor hand to hand boosts.

Actually if you look they stripped out the Gladius's bonuses and instead restricted it to PA combat: Basic, so only +1 attack per melee and no more as they level up, save for those gained from their native hand to hand and boxing.

I'll just ignore the ret-conn B/S and keep the original write-up from Rifts Merc's thanks kay bye.

I will have to do a direct comparison of the old style to the new write up on it. I would think even power armor basics boosts would match or better any bonuses the old writeup had. Although that said even if it was only +1 to melee over what it had previously thats still a pretty potent boost.

Changes from original to "Revised"
-1 Initiative
+0 attack
+1 to strike (melee)
+1 to parry (melee)
+1 to dodge
+1 to roll with impact.

User must have at least Pilot PA: Basic.

[kaid]

So more restrictive on who can use the armor due to the PA skill needed but mild bonus for those who do have the skill.

[Shark_Force]

pretty nasty drawback for those who don't have the skill, though.

[kaid]

I think the only reason the gladius was not originally considered power armor was due to the battery power system and now that is an option for nearly all NG power armor/vehicles and the fact the gladius has around as much MDC as the terrain hopper it is probably more consistent to consider it power armor than it was to consider it body armor.

I would also with that have to assume the CS and triax versions of similar enhanced armor probably should be considered light PA as well.

[The Galactus Kid]

I would also with that have to assume the CS and triax versions of similar enhanced armor probably should be considered light PA as well.

That wouldn't be a bad assumption, if this is in fact the direction they are going.

[ZINO]

Okay this really is a pretty mammoth book. In reading after work last night I just barely got to the first half of the book basically to the end of the power armors before I had to head in to work this morning.

Probably going to have to go through it a few times to really fully absorb all the various armors. In general the majority are very light to light power armors. Some are hardly bigger than unpowered EBA and at least a couple that I saw if you got the electrical model were like 200k credits which is pretty amazingly inexpensive for the protection and extra attacks. Seems like most of the really light armor has one or more of the universal energy link hookups which is nice because the smallest armor rarely has much in the way of built in weapons so nice slick hookup for whatever man/borg portable weapon you chose to utilize is nice.

I think the lightest MDC one I saw was around 150 MDC and the marjority fall in the range of 180-220 MDC. The ones that are more heavily armored tend to be the oversized ones like the samson/delilah/midas and there were one or two others that were in the 9+ foot range and those had 250+ and the new MK3 sampson has 325 MDC.

Armors that caught my eye.

Blue hawk this is basically the naval version of the red hawk. It lacks the super boosters of the red hawk but makes up for it with excellent underwater propulsion so good land/sea/air armor. It is less armored than a samas but still good protection. It also has one very handy capability that could make it really hot for lake/sea based adventurers and that is when it is hovering it can drop a sonar buoy on a 25 foot tether so it can fill the roll of modern day anti submarine warfare helicopters as a scout/picket asset for a bigger ship to extend the sonar detection range and sniff around for sub surface threats. Unlike modern day helicopters if it sniffs something out it has the option to dive in after it and its pretty well armed with torpedos to lay a hurting on sub surface threats. All in all very good power armor and fills a roll not really filled by anything else currently.

Grease monkey I tend to play operators and this is basically a combat operator armor. Designed for emergency repairs in high threat situations. Good armor protection and pretty fast and agile with hover thrusters that allow it to have a stable hover option for reaching those hard to reach places on giant robots. This also I think is armor somebody like a robot controller OCC from NG1 would drool over because it has high end diagnostic computers built in that can plug into robots battle assessment ports used by mechanics to determine what condition the suit is in. The fun part is if you can get into direct contact with the robot vehicle/power armor and hook this up it gives you a big boost to your hacking ability so good for commando raids to disable armor without destroying it.

Samson MK3 the old samson was always a group favorite and the new one is just the old samson but more better. Basically it gains a good bit of extra armor and weaponry for the cost of about 20MPH off its top speed which still makes it one of the fastest non flying non leaping power armors in rifts. From what I could see the samson MK3 is the most heavily armored and physically largest of the NG power armors.

The forester originally people saw this and thought lumber jack armor but its actually more of a light scout/wilderness scout type armor. Used for pathfinding/blazing trails/sneaking about in the forests. Nice overall light power armor with some interesting capabilities and useful for somebody like a wilderness scout to mark/create trails.

The ironwing which had some art that caused a bit of a conversation previously is a pretty solid flying power armor. Good mix of missiles and grenade launchers for deadly alpha strike or to combat things like swarming xititicx. This is a pretty reasonable match for something like a smiling jack samas or old style samas bit less armor but bit more firepower.

Thunder hound Apparently it was based on a joint project with the CS to develop a light really basic power armor for dog boys as the CS is thinking about upgrading the dog boys combat capabilities. There is a human version and also an on the down low DBee configurations to this armor. This is very basic power armor few frills other than the chain sword but still nice especially for DBees with less human body styles but still humanoid to at least have a viable basic power armor option that they can use.

I am going to have to read the power armor section at least a few more times because there are so many of them they were kinda blending near the end in my brain so need to read them more so I can remember which is which a bit better.

I thumbed through the vehicle section but had not had a chance to read any of it so that is the goal for tonight after I finish packing for my trip.

I will say its nice seeing mike mumahs art is as good as usual and given his health scare very gratifying to see. Chuck Walton apparently went totally nuts for the NG because he has a TON of art in this book. Overall art quality is very high.

is the NG 2 book out already?

[ZINO]

Still haven't seen; being north of the 49th. and having ONLY ONE STORE THAT CARRIES PALLDIUM PRODUCTS! (which, being the largest city in Canada is kinda pathetic)
I hope it is worth the $30+ (Can.) price tag.

[Slight001]

Zino, NG2 has been out since about Thursday/Friday of last week.

[kaid]

Yup NG2 started shipping last thursday and I live in wisconsin so when I order stuff via ups I usually get it in couple days so I got my copy monday.

I finally finished the initial read through of NG2 man that thing is a really sizable book. Lots of good vehicle options for non combat and combat usages. Some nice options for parties as well from configurable armored trailers that can be setup like an RV/bunk house/medical clinic/field armorer robot and power armor repair station to a more old fashion halftrack that can mount a variety of back end options including versions of the trailers and even a vehicle the salamander which nearly a mini hover train. By mini I mean its still really big but way more affordable than a hover train the salamander has a front cab that powers/drives the thing and three slots for pods that have a few different options for what kind of pods you want to load from pure personal transport to cargo truck to RV swinging bachelor pad.

Some really nice aquatic and amphibious options. One I really like is the aquapod its basically a hover truck thats also capable of water travel and it has its own mini sub that it can deploy. Very nice vehicle for this area of the country especially if the road network is thrashed because it could use rivers/lakes as a highway and then if there is openings in the forrest or water to shallow it can just hover over it at pretty high speeds.


Some very nice hovercycles and some nice default listed modular weapon options for those who wish to soup their bikes up.

Good range of land vehicles from bulldozers to pretty normal mildly armored utility vehicles to a fast hover tank. Some nice APC party bus options for those who also like to have some offensive punch like the badger or if you have a bunch of buddies in power armor the mammoth.

I think if I have one very mild disapointment is I was kind of hoping for a bush plane or small cargo aircraft. Basically you have things like the sky king which is great but not really a cargo hauling vehicle and hover cycles but no real bush planes or light cargo aircraft. About the only real air based transport/cargo hauler is the sky bunker which is really nice but would have been nice to have an option between single man sky cycle type designs and a flying APC.

[kaid]

Gladius kind of took a hit as it went from a heavy exoskeleton armor to an ultralight no frills ground PA that can only ever benefit from PA-Basic.

Mantis and Prophet are another pair of auto-dodge enabled Powered Armor... if anything the Cougar should have had an auto-dodge for all it's talk of being a highly mobile close quarters killer. Fairly sure a Prophet could do a better job in the hive lands then a cougar...

Gladius being treated like power armor limits who can use it a bit but those who can use power armor even if you are only using it like PA-basic are still gaining a minimum of 2 attacks per round from the change and more as they level up. So bit smaller market but it overall is a buff to the gladius as it gets the double dipping of normal hand to hand and power armor hand to hand boosts.

Actually if you look they stripped out the Gladius's bonuses and instead restricted it to PA combat: Basic, so only +1 attack per melee and no more as they level up, save for those gained from their native hand to hand and boxing.

I'll just ignore the ret-conn B/S and keep the original write-up from Rifts Merc's thanks kay bye.

I went through the gladius description a bit more last night. It really is an odd ball case because it gets the built in features of environmental body armor not power armor. Honestly for 50k more if a person can swing it there are at least two or three other options in NG2 that are much better and capable.

I could easily see a GM ruling that it could be used unskilled using the bonuses from the original description in mercs but if you actually have pilot power armor combat basic you could use that to get the boosted bonuses.

Still for this and a few other armors like it such as the chipwell it really does make a bit more sense of it requiring power armor skill to use given both can travel at 40 MPH. Without a skill a person who is not used to moving like that while running at those speeds probably has a more than even chance of face planting an awful lot until they learn how move in it.

Also did a comparison to the chipwell.

The chipwell basic armor like this is pretty decent it has 120 MDC as opposed to the gladius at 180 and has a 24 hour battery life while the gladius is rated I believe at 96 hours.

The chipwell one is less expensive at I think 90k credits as opposed to 150 for a gladius but its pretty reasonable with the gladius basically having an extra set of medium armor protection level above the chipwell unit and 4 times the endurance between recharges.

[random_username]

Still haven't seen; being north of the 49th. and having ONLY ONE STORE THAT CARRIES PALLDIUM PRODUCTS! (which, being the largest city in Canada is kinda pathetic)
I hope it is worth the $30+ (Can.) price tag.

In Toronto, Ontario, Canada: Hairy Tarantula (Downtown) and Hairy Tarantula (North) same company different locations both have separate stock of palladium books both new and used. Typically 30 to 40 new Rifts books and around 100 used Rifts books at each location. Will order in any requested books.

HT North frequently has several copies of the original "used" versions of Conversion Book One (which was later split into around 6 or so books). If you don't mind the older stats its a decent add-on book for variant stats or for those just starting/building their collection (main book + favorite book + CB1 original; or whatever).

http://www.htnorth.com

HT Downtown = easy subway access
HT North = end of subway line + minor walk or quick bus transfer.

[Razzinold]

Still haven't seen; being north of the 49th. and having ONLY ONE STORE THAT CARRIES PALLDIUM PRODUCTS! (which, being the largest city in Canada is kinda pathetic)
I hope it is worth the $30+ (Can.) price tag.

In Toronto, Ontario, Canada: Hairy Tarantula (Downtown) and Hairy Tarantula (North) same company different locations both have separate stock of palladium books both new and used. Typically 30 to 40 new Rifts books and around 100 used Rifts books at each location. Will order in any requested books.

HT North frequently has several copies of the original "used" versions of Conversion Book One (which was later split into around 6 or so books). If you don't mind the older stats its a decent add-on book for variant stats or for those just starting/building their collection (main book + favorite book + CB1 original; or whatever).

http://www.htnorth.com

HT Downtown = easy subway access
HT North = end of subway line + minor walk or quick bus transfer.

Well seeing as how I would be coming in from Oshawa along the 401 HT North would be the easier one for me to get to, even though the website makes the downtown location more fun to visit (I've never been to either one). Perhaps I will check them out this weekend, maybe I can score NG1 & 2.

However I do recall in a previous thread about not being able to find a local store that carries product someone said that HT doesn't carry it either.

[Razzinold]

Yup NG2 started shipping last thursday and I live in wisconsin so when I order stuff via ups I usually get it in couple days so I got my copy monday.

I finally finished the initial read through of NG2 man that thing is a really sizable book. Lots of good vehicle options for non combat and combat usages. Some nice options for parties as well from configurable armored trailers that can be setup like an RV/bunk house/medical clinic/field armorer robot and power armor repair station to a more old fashion halftrack that can mount a variety of back end options including versions of the trailers and even a vehicle the salamander which nearly a mini hover train. By mini I mean its still really big but way more affordable than a hover train the salamander has a front cab that powers/drives the thing and three slots for pods that have a few different options for what kind of pods you want to load from pure personal transport to cargo truck to RV swinging bachelor pad.

Some really nice aquatic and amphibious options. One I really like is the aquapod its basically a hover truck thats also capable of water travel and it has its own mini sub that it can deploy. Very nice vehicle for this area of the country especially if the road network is thrashed because it could use rivers/lakes as a highway and then if there is openings in the forrest or water to shallow it can just hover over it at pretty high speeds.


Some very nice hovercycles and some nice default listed modular weapon options for those who wish to soup their bikes up.

Good range of land vehicles from bulldozers to pretty normal mildly armored utility vehicles to a fast hover tank. Some nice APC party bus options for those who also like to have some offensive punch like the badger or if you have a bunch of buddies in power armor the mammoth.

I think if I have one very mild disapointment is I was kind of hoping for a bush plane or small cargo aircraft. Basically you have things like the sky king which is great but not really a cargo hauling vehicle and hover cycles but no real bush planes or light cargo aircraft. About the only real air based transport/cargo hauler is the sky bunker which is really nice but would have been nice to have an option between single man sky cycle type designs and a flying APC.

Nice! This is what I was looking forward to the most, non combat group vehicles.

[kaid]

Yup NG2 started shipping last thursday and I live in wisconsin so when I order stuff via ups I usually get it in couple days so I got my copy monday.

I finally finished the initial read through of NG2 man that thing is a really sizable book. Lots of good vehicle options for non combat and combat usages. Some nice options for parties as well from configurable armored trailers that can be setup like an RV/bunk house/medical clinic/field armorer robot and power armor repair station to a more old fashion halftrack that can mount a variety of back end options including versions of the trailers and even a vehicle the salamander which nearly a mini hover train. By mini I mean its still really big but way more affordable than a hover train the salamander has a front cab that powers/drives the thing and three slots for pods that have a few different options for what kind of pods you want to load from pure personal transport to cargo truck to RV swinging bachelor pad.

Some really nice aquatic and amphibious options. One I really like is the aquapod its basically a hover truck thats also capable of water travel and it has its own mini sub that it can deploy. Very nice vehicle for this area of the country especially if the road network is thrashed because it could use rivers/lakes as a highway and then if there is openings in the forrest or water to shallow it can just hover over it at pretty high speeds.


Some very nice hovercycles and some nice default listed modular weapon options for those who wish to soup their bikes up.

Good range of land vehicles from bulldozers to pretty normal mildly armored utility vehicles to a fast hover tank. Some nice APC party bus options for those who also like to have some offensive punch like the badger or if you have a bunch of buddies in power armor the mammoth.

I think if I have one very mild disapointment is I was kind of hoping for a bush plane or small cargo aircraft. Basically you have things like the sky king which is great but not really a cargo hauling vehicle and hover cycles but no real bush planes or light cargo aircraft. About the only real air based transport/cargo hauler is the sky bunker which is really nice but would have been nice to have an option between single man sky cycle type designs and a flying APC.

Nice! This is what I was looking forward to the most, non combat group vehicles.

Well this book has a bunch of options for that from things that are by default unarmed and very modular to some heavily armored and pretty well armed APC's and a pretty good range in between. One interesting thing is most of the hovercycles are unarmed by default although some have one or two weapons with most of the weaponry for them being optional modular upgrades so you can mix and match although the more you add the more squirrely the handling gets and it impacts the maximum speed.

I really enjoyed some of the amphibious vehicle options. In a world with minimal road networks being able to make full use of rivers and larger streams is a great way to get around through areas that would otherwise be nearly impassible due to dense forests. A few hundred of years of minimal human population would make most of wisconsin/the UP and minnesota nearly impassable due to forrest densities to any normal land vehicle so having something that can go on or under water or over trees is handy.

[ZINO]

Zino, NG2 has been out since about Thursday/Friday of last week.

ok ty have to wait here to buy it in NY,NY at the store

[Shadowdragon7]

Is there any new combat borg bodies, Like how the Japan book has the dragon borgs?

[Kagashi]

Not digging the retcon to the Gladius. Exo-Skeletons have a very important gap to fill between power armors and body armors and now we have one less to pick from. Why even mess with it by reclassifying it? If anything, the only "change" I would have like to seen would be to stat out the MDC by location.

With the over information of NG1 and the retcon to my favorite exo-suit being reported here in this thread, I will prolly wait till the next xmas grab bag before trying to get a copy of NG2.

[Pepsi Jedi]

250 page book. Dozens of power armors and vehicles, etc etc etc etc.

One armor becomes a power armor and you're putting it off for two years to buy? Sounds like you very likely weren't getting it anyway.

[Kagashi]

250 page book. Dozens of power armors and vehicles, etc etc etc etc.

One armor becomes a power armor and you're putting it off for two years to buy? Sounds like you very likely weren't getting it anyway.

Quite the contrary. I own every Rifts book ever printed and an currently on a quest to even get the Shadow Updates (Despite PBs unwillingness to help me obtain them by not specifying which ones are Shadow Updates and which are older printings). Finishing the collection is important to me. But some things just lose out in priority. Still, I can wait 2 years if Im going to pay half price for something Im not all excited about.

Its way more than just one retconned armor. When NG1 came out, I was put off by the fact it was just another toy catalog with only a few pages dedicated to any actual setting information. Not only was it just a reason to fill a book up with Bots, it didnt really make sense for a company to one year over flood the market with triple the number of bots it had in its line up for the past 40 years. Look at car companies like Dodge. They have the Challanger and the Charger to fill the sports car niche. Then next year, in addition to the 2015 Challanger and Charger, they suddenly release 10 new sports cars that really fill no role, impact production to their factories, and junk up the sales floor. It just doesnt make sense. It would have made more sense if the author filled out a timeline. "this bot was released in 101 PA, that bot was released in 104 PA..."For all the hype, Id give that book a solid C+ by having some cool things in it, but does not really impact anything in the story line. The info on the merc armies was cool.

It seems NG2 is just a continuation of that except its just more PA instead of Bots. Is there anything in the book worth reading that has to do with setting or plot, or is it just 250 pages of MDC by location? Cause thats pretty much all Ive seen online so far.

[Pepsi Jedi]

250 page book. Dozens of power armors and vehicles, etc etc etc etc.

One armor becomes a power armor and you're putting it off for two years to buy? Sounds like you very likely weren't getting it anyway.

Quite the contrary. I own every Rifts book ever printed and an currently on a quest to even get the Shadow Updates (Despite PBs unwillingness to help me obtain them by not specifying which ones are Shadow Updates and which are older printings). Finishing the collection is important to me. But some things just lose out in priority. Still, I can wait 2 years if Im going to pay half price for something Im not all excited about.

Its way more than just one retconned armor. When NG1 came out, I was put off by the fact it was just another toy catalog with only a few pages dedicated to any actual setting information. Not only was it just a reason to fill a book up with Bots, it didnt really make sense for a company to one year over flood the market with triple the number of bots it had in its line up for the past 40 years. Look at car companies like Dodge. They have the Challanger and the Charger to fill the sports car niche. Then next year, in addition to the 2015 Challanger and Charger, they suddenly release 10 new sports cars that really fill no role, impact production to their factories, and junk up the sales floor. It just doesnt make sense. It would have made more sense if the author filled out a timeline. "this bot was released in 101 PA, that bot was released in 104 PA..."For all the hype, Id give that book a solid C+ by having some cool things in it, but does not really impact anything in the story line. The info on the merc armies was cool.

It seems NG2 is just a continuation of that except its just more PA instead of Bots. Is there anything in the book worth reading that has to do with setting or plot, or is it just 250 pages of MDC by location? Cause thats pretty much all Ive seen online so far.

..... You clearly haven't read NG1. You say that it's just another toy catalog with only a few paged dedicated to any actual setting information.

That's a bold face lie.

The first 100 or so pages is nothing but setting information.

The bots don't start until page 101. It has arguably more setting information than 90% of other world books. I'm not going to go through 34 world books and count pages, but most of them aren't that big, to have 100 pages of setting information before it gets to gear and stats.

Does NG1 have bots? Yeah. They do. Is NG1 just a toybox? No. If you had it/read it you'd know this. To imply that it is and only has a few pages of setting information is either 1) Ignorance because you don't own the product and are guessing or 2) A lie.

As for the number of bots, instead of looking at it like "A sudden influx of bots all at once" look at it, as it's presented. "The Full Catalog of bots they have now and have had"

We didn't get the NG books till recently, so we only had bits and pieces spread over the other 30 world books. Now they're all in one place and you can see them all. You mention Dodge.

It'd be like you visited used car lots here and there and may have seen a Charger at one and a challenger at another. Maybe you were in Mexico, and didn't have access to all that dodge had to offer. or maybe couldn't get to the US where there were dodge dealerships.
But then.... Dun dun dun Dunnnn You visit the Dodge dealership and see their entire line of cars. All 20 or what ever they put out.

[Jorel]

I'm really liking what I see in my pdf so far. Love the art. Haven't had time to digest to much of the stats. I like seeing my name up in lights in the Robo Gladiator Arena on the Cover...even if it is backwards.

[popscythe]

I'm really liking what I see in my pdf so far. Love the art. Haven't had time to digest to much of the stats. I like seeing my name up in lights in the Robo Gladiator Arena on the Cover...even if it is backwards.

Playing spot the forum references has been pretty amusing.

[ZINO]

I'm really liking what I see in my pdf so far. Love the art. Haven't had time to digest to much of the stats. I like seeing my name up in lights in the Robo Gladiator Arena on the Cover...even if it is backwards.

same here i fell WOW LOVE IT man looking forward the next book to support
there a lot of data and stats as well wow

[Giant2005]

I didn't think I would like the book at all as I have never been one for Toy Catalogues and the Robo Arena never really hooked me... Until I read it. I really do love the Robo Arena stuff and I was pleasantly surprised by the toys themselves. I did encounter a few annoyances in the book that irked me to the extreme (Declaring a bunch of O.C.C.s that have no training to pilot Hovercycles are suddenly experts at it - superior to those that have the skill as an O.C.C. skill; and the updated rules for broken limbs that don't actually state what the penalties are without the brace) but regardless of how irksome some aspects were, I'd thoroughly recommend the book - more-so than I would NG1.

[ZINO]

Robo Arena and other vehicles will be soooo Handy and info of the area as well will be so helpful
then add a few TW and poof you good to go IMHO
PB Books did very well done in vehicles ,robot and what i love pdf work well i don't have to carry my book NG2
LOVE IT

[Razzinold]

250 page book. Dozens of power armors and vehicles, etc etc etc etc.

One armor becomes a power armor and you're putting it off for two years to buy? Sounds like you very likely weren't getting it anyway.

Quite the contrary. I own every Rifts book ever printed and an currently on a quest to even get the Shadow Updates (Despite PBs unwillingness to help me obtain them by not specifying which ones are Shadow Updates and which are older printings). Finishing the collection is important to me. But some things just lose out in priority. Still, I can wait 2 years if Im going to pay half price for something Im not all excited about.

Its way more than just one retconned armor. When NG1 came out, I was put off by the fact it was just another toy catalog with only a few pages dedicated to any actual setting information. Not only was it just a reason to fill a book up with Bots, it didnt really make sense for a company to one year over flood the market with triple the number of bots it had in its line up for the past 40 years. Look at car companies like Dodge. They have the Challanger and the Charger to fill the sports car niche. Then next year, in addition to the 2015 Challanger and Charger, they suddenly release 10 new sports cars that really fill no role, impact production to their factories, and junk up the sales floor. It just doesnt make sense. It would have made more sense if the author filled out a timeline. "this bot was released in 101 PA, that bot was released in 104 PA..."For all the hype, Id give that book a solid C+ by having some cool things in it, but does not really impact anything in the story line. The info on the merc armies was cool.

It seems NG2 is just a continuation of that except its just more PA instead of Bots. Is there anything in the book worth reading that has to do with setting or plot, or is it just 250 pages of MDC by location? Cause thats pretty much all Ive seen online so far.

..... You clearly haven't read NG1. You say that it's just another toy catalog with only a few paged dedicated to any actual setting information.

That's a bold face lie.

The first 100 or so pages is nothing but setting information.

The bots don't start until page 101. It has arguably more setting information than 90% of other world books. I'm not going to go through 34 world books and count pages, but most of them aren't that big, to have 100 pages of setting information before it gets to gear and stats.

Does NG1 have bots? Yeah. They do. Is NG1 just a toybox? No. If you had it/read it you'd know this. To imply that it is and only has a few pages of setting information is either 1) Ignorance because you don't own the product and are guessing or 2) A lie.

As for the number of bots, instead of looking at it like "A sudden influx of bots all at once" look at it, as it's presented. "The Full Catalog of bots they have now and have had"

We didn't get the NG books till recently, so we only had bits and pieces spread over the other 30 world books. Now they're all in one place and you can see them all. You mention Dodge.

It'd be like you visited used car lots here and there and may have seen a Charger at one and a challenger at another. Maybe you were in Mexico, and didn't have access to all that dodge had to offer. or maybe couldn't get to the US where there were dodge dealerships.
But then.... Dun dun dun Dunnnn You visit the Dodge dealership and see their entire line of cars. All 20 or what ever they put out.

Now I haven't read NG1 or 2 yet, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but it's my understanding that even though all this stuff is new to us I assume that it isn't new to the Rifts Universe.

I would treat it as: here is everything they have ever made/currently make and we, as the player characters, would assume that they have always been available since NG has been around for years. To me, that makes more sense than "wow NG just built and released 30 bots, 25 PA and like 20 vehicles all at once!"

Am I way off base on this ?

[Slight001]

From what I recall that is exactly how it is. Though I do believe that NG has stepped up it's creation of new models so a lot more are newer ie from the last 2 or 3 years.

[Razzinold]

From what I recall that is exactly how it is. Though I do believe that NG has stepped up it's creation of new models so a lot more are newer ie from the last 2 or 3 years.

Well that makes sense, some have been assumed to always have been in existence and some are a showcase off all the new/newer stuff.

[Pepsi Jedi]

250 page book. Dozens of power armors and vehicles, etc etc etc etc.

One armor becomes a power armor and you're putting it off for two years to buy? Sounds like you very likely weren't getting it anyway.

Quite the contrary. I own every Rifts book ever printed and an currently on a quest to even get the Shadow Updates (Despite PBs unwillingness to help me obtain them by not specifying which ones are Shadow Updates and which are older printings). Finishing the collection is important to me. But some things just lose out in priority. Still, I can wait 2 years if Im going to pay half price for something Im not all excited about.

Its way more than just one retconned armor. When NG1 came out, I was put off by the fact it was just another toy catalog with only a few pages dedicated to any actual setting information. Not only was it just a reason to fill a book up with Bots, it didnt really make sense for a company to one year over flood the market with triple the number of bots it had in its line up for the past 40 years. Look at car companies like Dodge. They have the Challanger and the Charger to fill the sports car niche. Then next year, in addition to the 2015 Challanger and Charger, they suddenly release 10 new sports cars that really fill no role, impact production to their factories, and junk up the sales floor. It just doesnt make sense. It would have made more sense if the author filled out a timeline. "this bot was released in 101 PA, that bot was released in 104 PA..."For all the hype, Id give that book a solid C+ by having some cool things in it, but does not really impact anything in the story line. The info on the merc armies was cool.

It seems NG2 is just a continuation of that except its just more PA instead of Bots. Is there anything in the book worth reading that has to do with setting or plot, or is it just 250 pages of MDC by location? Cause thats pretty much all Ive seen online so far.

..... You clearly haven't read NG1. You say that it's just another toy catalog with only a few paged dedicated to any actual setting information.

That's a bold face lie.

The first 100 or so pages is nothing but setting information.

The bots don't start until page 101. It has arguably more setting information than 90% of other world books. I'm not going to go through 34 world books and count pages, but most of them aren't that big, to have 100 pages of setting information before it gets to gear and stats.

Does NG1 have bots? Yeah. They do. Is NG1 just a toybox? No. If you had it/read it you'd know this. To imply that it is and only has a few pages of setting information is either 1) Ignorance because you don't own the product and are guessing or 2) A lie.

As for the number of bots, instead of looking at it like "A sudden influx of bots all at once" look at it, as it's presented. "The Full Catalog of bots they have now and have had"

We didn't get the NG books till recently, so we only had bits and pieces spread over the other 30 world books. Now they're all in one place and you can see them all. You mention Dodge.

It'd be like you visited used car lots here and there and may have seen a Charger at one and a challenger at another. Maybe you were in Mexico, and didn't have access to all that dodge had to offer. or maybe couldn't get to the US where there were dodge dealerships.
But then.... Dun dun dun Dunnnn You visit the Dodge dealership and see their entire line of cars. All 20 or what ever they put out.

Now I haven't read NG1 or 2 yet, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but it's my understanding that even though all this stuff is new to us I assume that it isn't new to the Rifts Universe.

I would treat it as: here is everything they have ever made/currently make and we, as the player characters, would assume that they have always been available since NG has been around for years. To me, that makes more sense than "wow NG just built and released 30 bots, 25 PA and like 20 vehicles all at once!"

Am I way off base on this ?

No. You're 100% correct.

Some of the items presented 'are' new 'in universe too' As in "This year they came out with this bot or that power armor" but the majority of it is as you said.

[Razzinold]

250 page book. Dozens of power armors and vehicles, etc etc etc etc.

One armor becomes a power armor and you're putting it off for two years to buy? Sounds like you very likely weren't getting it anyway.

Quite the contrary. I own every Rifts book ever printed and an currently on a quest to even get the Shadow Updates (Despite PBs unwillingness to help me obtain them by not specifying which ones are Shadow Updates and which are older printings). Finishing the collection is important to me. But some things just lose out in priority. Still, I can wait 2 years if Im going to pay half price for something Im not all excited about.

Its way more than just one retconned armor. When NG1 came out, I was put off by the fact it was just another toy catalog with only a few pages dedicated to any actual setting information. Not only was it just a reason to fill a book up with Bots, it didnt really make sense for a company to one year over flood the market with triple the number of bots it had in its line up for the past 40 years. Look at car companies like Dodge. They have the Challanger and the Charger to fill the sports car niche. Then next year, in addition to the 2015 Challanger and Charger, they suddenly release 10 new sports cars that really fill no role, impact production to their factories, and junk up the sales floor. It just doesnt make sense. It would have made more sense if the author filled out a timeline. "this bot was released in 101 PA, that bot was released in 104 PA..."For all the hype, Id give that book a solid C+ by having some cool things in it, but does not really impact anything in the story line. The info on the merc armies was cool.

It seems NG2 is just a continuation of that except its just more PA instead of Bots. Is there anything in the book worth reading that has to do with setting or plot, or is it just 250 pages of MDC by location? Cause thats pretty much all Ive seen online so far.

..... You clearly haven't read NG1. You say that it's just another toy catalog with only a few paged dedicated to any actual setting information.

That's a bold face lie.

The first 100 or so pages is nothing but setting information.

The bots don't start until page 101. It has arguably more setting information than 90% of other world books. I'm not going to go through 34 world books and count pages, but most of them aren't that big, to have 100 pages of setting information before it gets to gear and stats.

Does NG1 have bots? Yeah. They do. Is NG1 just a toybox? No. If you had it/read it you'd know this. To imply that it is and only has a few pages of setting information is either 1) Ignorance because you don't own the product and are guessing or 2) A lie.

As for the number of bots, instead of looking at it like "A sudden influx of bots all at once" look at it, as it's presented. "The Full Catalog of bots they have now and have had"

We didn't get the NG books till recently, so we only had bits and pieces spread over the other 30 world books. Now they're all in one place and you can see them all. You mention Dodge.

It'd be like you visited used car lots here and there and may have seen a Charger at one and a challenger at another. Maybe you were in Mexico, and didn't have access to all that dodge had to offer. or maybe couldn't get to the US where there were dodge dealerships.
But then.... Dun dun dun Dunnnn You visit the Dodge dealership and see their entire line of cars. All 20 or what ever they put out.

Now I haven't read NG1 or 2 yet, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but it's my understanding that even though all this stuff is new to us I assume that it isn't new to the Rifts Universe.

I would treat it as: here is everything they have ever made/currently make and we, as the player characters, would assume that they have always been available since NG has been around for years. To me, that makes more sense than "wow NG just built and released 30 bots, 25 PA and like 20 vehicles all at once!"

Am I way off base on this ?

No. You're 100% correct.

Some of the items presented 'are' new 'in universe too' As in "This year they came out with this bot or that power armor" but the majority of it is as you said.

If only I had some room left in my signature space

Thanks for the backup Pepsi, like I said I haven't read the books yet I was just taking a logical approach to the situation.

[Giant2005]

One thing I wish they would have included in NG2 would have been a competetor using an Angrar Robot or at least a mention of someone being banned for using one. Angrar is far too cool to go so long without update or mention and the Robot Arena would have been the perfect place for such a nod.

[Hotrod]

There's another aspect of the "why have 30 different models" debate. Rifts is not present-day. NG is far more than a vehicle-selling company, and their manufacturing processes are likely far more sophisticated than a GM assembly plant.

The old ways are a-changing. Just look at 3D printing today. Miniatures businesses like Games Workshop (and Palladium) might never be the same, and that's just scratching the surface of what that technology might bring as it gets more sophisticated.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Tea. Earl Gray. Hot.

[Hotrod]

Are there any new maps in the new NG2?

[Icefalcon]

Tea. Earl Gray. Hot.

There is not enough emoticons for liking this statement.

[Razzinold]

Still haven't seen; being north of the 49th. and having ONLY ONE STORE THAT CARRIES PALLDIUM PRODUCTS! (which, being the largest city in Canada is kinda pathetic)
I hope it is worth the $30+ (Can.) price tag.

In Toronto, Ontario, Canada: Hairy Tarantula (Downtown) and Hairy Tarantula (North) same company different locations both have separate stock of palladium books both new and used. Typically 30 to 40 new Rifts books and around 100 used Rifts books at each location. Will order in any requested books.

HT North frequently has several copies of the original "used" versions of Conversion Book One (which was later split into around 6 or so books). If you don't mind the older stats its a decent add-on book for variant stats or for those just starting/building their collection (main book + favorite book + CB1 original; or whatever).

http://www.htnorth.com

HT Downtown = easy subway access
HT North = end of subway line + minor walk or quick bus transfer.

Well seeing as how I would be coming in from Oshawa along the 401 HT North would be the easier one for me to get to, even though the website makes the downtown location more fun to visit (I've never been to either one). Perhaps I will check them out this weekend, maybe I can score NG1 & 2.

However I do recall in a previous thread about not being able to find a local store that carries product someone said that HT doesn't carry it either.

So I decided to check out Harry Trantula North this passed Sunday. They had an ok sized collection for old Palladium products, I believe newest book was World Book 23. It was mostly Rifters or duplicate copies of the same title, Vampire Kingdom (not the revised one), a sprinkling of Nightbane and PF. As for Northern Gun I had to ask at the counter since the new releases are kept at the front and I did not see it. I believe they had a copy of Dragons and Gods in the new release spot. They checked their computer and they only ordered one copy of NG1 and it has already been sold, they haven't even ordered NG2 yet.

Perhaps downtown has a better selection, but I would call first before going. The only reason I even went by is because I was already down at Ikea off Leslie street, so I just took Sheppard down to Yonge since I was so close.

[random_username]

Still haven't seen; being north of the 49th. and having ONLY ONE STORE THAT CARRIES PALLDIUM PRODUCTS! (which, being the largest city in Canada is kinda pathetic)
I hope it is worth the $30+ (Can.) price tag.

In Toronto, Ontario, Canada: Hairy Tarantula (Downtown) and Hairy Tarantula (North) same company different locations both have separate stock of palladium books both new and used. Typically 30 to 40 new Rifts books and around 100 used Rifts books at each location. Will order in any requested books.

HT North frequently has several copies of the original "used" versions of Conversion Book One (which was later split into around 6 or so books). If you don't mind the older stats its a decent add-on book for variant stats or for those just starting/building their collection (main book + favorite book + CB1 original; or whatever).

http://www.htnorth.com

HT Downtown = easy subway access
HT North = end of subway line + minor walk or quick bus transfer.

Well seeing as how I would be coming in from Oshawa along the 401 HT North would be the easier one for me to get to, even though the website makes the downtown location more fun to visit (I've never been to either one). Perhaps I will check them out this weekend, maybe I can score NG1 & 2.

However I do recall in a previous thread about not being able to find a local store that carries product someone said that HT doesn't carry it either.

So I decided to check out Hairy Tarantula North this passed Sunday. They had an ok sized collection for old Palladium products, I believe newest book was World Book 23. It was mostly Rifters or duplicate copies of the same title, Vampire Kingdom (not the revised one), a sprinkling of Nightbane and PF. As for Northern Gun I had to ask at the counter since the new releases are kept at the front and I did not see it. I believe they had a copy of Dragons and Gods in the new release spot. They checked their computer and they only ordered one copy of NG1 and it has already been sold, they haven't even ordered NG2 yet.

Perhaps downtown has a better selection, but I would call first before going. The only reason I even went by is because I was already down at Ikea off Leslie street, so I just took Sheppard down to Yonge since I was so close.

Both HT locations tend to need to be seen in person to have any sense of their stock types/quantities.

HT-North:
Tends to have 1 or 2 sections for New Rifts (two low height book shelves back-to-back) depending upon their current inventory organization. Their Used section tends to be in the full height book shelves which may also include any boxes on the floor in front or nearby (they restructure / reorganize fairly frequently). You may need to have the HT-North manager (female) (rather than the male regional/both stores manager) point out all of the current locations (tends to be the only one who knows where they all are).
They also tend to have 3 plain boxes containing a total of around 200 to 300 old rifts pewter figurines (nothing fancy just some of the basic): borgs, rogues/scouts, cyber-adventures, dog boys, skele bots, brodkil/witchling, and the simvan on dinosaur. These are usually located on the lower shelves in the miniatures section.

HT-Downtown:
Bizarre single door entry way wedged between two other small stores with lousy signage. Leads up a set of stairs leading to another plain door. New Palladium/Rifts books tend to be around 6 feet in and to the left of this inner door on the mid to lower shelves. Used ones tend to be in boxes on tables in the back room (to the right of inner door). The furthest/last row on the table. Again they restructure / reorganize fairly frequently.
For an interesting side-track they have a half-blocked side room dedicated to fairly obscure miniatures of many types. Left side/slightly behind the cash register area however HT-Downtown does not typically have any Rifts miniatures.

Tends to be the only known of retailer of Rifts products in Toronto. Which is almost weird for a city of 2.5 million people. Others have done so in the past but these have either narrowed their product focus, gone out of business, and so forth.