Creature that should never have been or be made MDC

[Rimmerdal]

Honey Badger, I don't think I need to give a reason here..but if you really need one..here is a National Geographic special on them..Snake killers: Honey badgers of the Kalahari (and its a good bit too. Quite informative.)

Would love to get this as a familiar..and of course one of the feared "Shadow Honey Badgers" (Hint Hint)

Whats on your list?

[Alrik Vas]

Creature that should have never been made MDC...hrm...

Pretty much anything in all of Rifts that's smaller than 10ft.

...basically, no humanoid creature under 9ft tall and under 1,000lbs should have MDC.

[Nightmask]

Creature that should have never been made MDC...hrm...

Pretty much anything in all of Rifts that's smaller than 10ft.

...basically, no humanoid creature under 9ft tall and under 1,000lbs should have MDC.

So that would be most supernatural humanoid monsters then, just to start a list of the vast numbers of creatures that are humanoid and MDC creatures.

[Rimmerdal]

I haven't seen official size limits. Most MDC beasts tend to be super natural or COM..though there are few that are smaller.

[The Beast]

Creature that should have never been made MDC...hrm...

Pretty much anything in all of Rifts that's smaller than 10ft.

...basically, no humanoid creature under 9ft tall and under 1,000lbs should have MDC.

I'd go with anything that's not a supernatural being or a creature of magic.

[Morik]

Hate the Mary Sue Undead Slayers. True Atlantians are already really removed from regular humans. Why would you make their policemen M.D.C.too?

Honestly, I hate the whole tattoo magic in the first place. It's boring and most players just munchkin their choices and get the most powerful tats and don't really think about flavor or individuality. heart in chains again.........(this is my opinion in a opinion thread please regard it just as that.)

I think they should have made the ley line charge (mdc transformation) of whales last longer.

[Bill]

Almost everything that is available as an optional player class. So many MDC options undermine the horror of a world where real monsters can pull an armored man apart and slough off gunfire with impunity. And even things that remain bonafide supernatural player character options would have been better in the minor (less than 20) MDC range. That of course is my bias. There are folks that prefer to play the game as a more free-wheeling, super-hero adventure. For them, I'm sure more MDC is almost always preferable.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

there isnt room on the internet for my list
palladium has a habit of making things mdc for no other reason other then making it mdc

[Kagashi]

Anything that was not magic or psionic in nature. Why are dinosaurs MDC? They are just big animals. If dinos are MDC, why arent Elephants, Rhinos, ect...?

[Nightmask]

Anything that was not magic or psionic in nature. Why are dinosaurs MDC? They are just big animals. If dinos are MDC, why arent Elephants, Rhinos, ect...?

While it's not part of the Palladium megaverse canon due to the licensing issues going by TMNT things brought forward in time pick up Bio-E that results in mutations so perhaps it's simply that the dinosaurs are mutating due to all that temporal energy whereas the Elephants and Rhinos being modern without the extra temporal energy remain SDC?

[Kagashi]

Anything that was not magic or psionic in nature. Why are dinosaurs MDC? They are just big animals. If dinos are MDC, why arent Elephants, Rhinos, ect...?

While it's not part of the Palladium megaverse canon due to the licensing issues going by TMNT things brought forward in time pick up Bio-E that results in mutations so perhaps it's simply that the dinosaurs are mutating due to all that temporal energy whereas the Elephants and Rhinos being modern without the extra temporal energy remain SDC?

Yeah, thats the best I can think of as well. Id like to see an in-game explanation though that does not fall back on the defunct TMNT license though. Like, perhaps Lazlo will study them and find that they are really latent creatures of magic, and when the magic levels dropped in Earth's history, they were easily killed off by other animals and mankind. When the Rifts returned, they also returned via Rifts and are now at their full potential (MDC) due to the elevated PPE in the atmo.

Since I am not a fan of retcon, and dinos are already established as MDC creatures, Id like to see some kind of in game reason for them being MDC, rather than simply rewriting all the World Books they are in to make them high SDC creatures.

[Nightmask]

Anything that was not magic or psionic in nature. Why are dinosaurs MDC? They are just big animals. If dinos are MDC, why arent Elephants, Rhinos, ect...?

While it's not part of the Palladium megaverse canon due to the licensing issues going by TMNT things brought forward in time pick up Bio-E that results in mutations so perhaps it's simply that the dinosaurs are mutating due to all that temporal energy whereas the Elephants and Rhinos being modern without the extra temporal energy remain SDC?

Yeah, thats the best I can think of as well. Id like to see an in-game explanation though that does not fall back on the defunct TMNT license though. Like, perhaps Lazlo will study them and find that they are really latent creatures of magic, and when the magic levels dropped in Earth's history, they were easily killed off by other animals and mankind. When the Rifts returned, they also returned via Rifts and are now at their full potential (MDC) due to the elevated PPE in the atmo.

Since I am not a fan of retcon, and dinos are already established as MDC creatures, Id like to see some kind of in game reason for them being MDC, rather than simply rewriting all the World Books they are in to make them high SDC creatures.

That would be an interesting way to explain it, just as other magical things became SDC when the magic levels dropped. The asteroid could have disrupted Earth's magical fields at the time causing the dinosaurs to simultaneously suffer environmental hardships due to the 'nuclear winter' effect while losing the MDC that they depended on becoming massively more vulnerable at a time they most needed it.

[Rimmerdal]

Anything that was not magic or psionic in nature. Why are dinosaurs MDC? They are just big animals. If dinos are MDC, why arent Elephants, Rhinos, ect...?

While it's not part of the Palladium megaverse canon due to the licensing issues going by TMNT things brought forward in time pick up Bio-E that results in mutations so perhaps it's simply that the dinosaurs are mutating due to all that temporal energy whereas the Elephants and Rhinos being modern without the extra temporal energy remain SDC?

Yeah, thats the best I can think of as well. Id like to see an in-game explanation though that does not fall back on the defunct TMNT license though. Like, perhaps Lazlo will study them and find that they are really latent creatures of magic, and when the magic levels dropped in Earth's history, they were easily killed off by other animals and mankind. When the Rifts returned, they also returned via Rifts and are now at their full potential (MDC) due to the elevated PPE in the atmo.

Since I am not a fan of retcon, and dinos are already established as MDC creatures, Id like to see some kind of in game reason for them being MDC, rather than simply rewriting all the World Books they are in to make them high SDC creatures.

That would be an interesting way to explain it, just as other magical things became SDC when the magic levels dropped. The asteroid could have disrupted Earth's magical fields at the time causing the dinosaurs to simultaneously suffer environmental hardships due to the 'nuclear winter' effect while losing the MDC that they depended on becoming massively more vulnerable at a time they most needed it.

Hmm could well be that meteor was responsible making certain other magical and Supernatural critters and races extinct or introduce a few as well. Some may have left earth and dimensionally traveled to avoid the asteroid.

[ShadowLogan]

Could Dinosaurs (and others) really have their aura warped by the magic energy levels that give them an MDC forcefield like the Burster's "Flame Burst Body Protection" which is described as "The aura of the fire from the Flame Burst also provides a limited M.D.C. Field of protection equal to..."-RUE pg140.

The Zapper RCC (Psycape) and the mutant animals in SA (IINM) also have this. Even the Psychic Body Field power suggests it related to aura in the description.

Although why some receive the warping aura and others don't I don't have an idea, but it is something to consider.

[dragonfett]

As far as dinos being MDC, I have always saw it as being mutated by the Rifts when they came through.

I feel that dinos could have done with less MDC (like much less in some cases).

Faeries are another race that should either had no MDC or low levels.

[Alrik Vas]

My 9ft and 1000lbs qualifiers aren't exact, really. I don't think magic or psionic things should be MDC. I don't really think godlings should be either, for instance. Then again, i don't think infantry small arms should do MDC either, to give you a better idea of where i'm coming from on this.

[Rimmerdal]

As far as dinos being MDC, I have always saw it as being mutated by the Rifts when they came through.

I feel that dinos could have done with less MDC (like much less in some cases).

Faeries are another race that should either had no MDC or low levels.

Dino's I'd allow MDC on account of the giant Zent rule..there just massive amounts of SDC. which would be pretty much like you call it..a mutation of some sort.

Fey races I never really use on acount of the fact they avoid the large folk..but the ones I've seen I could agree on a case by case basis they should low or even no MDC..to give them variety and differing traits other than threat levels and powers.

[Rimmerdal]

My 9ft and 1000lbs qualifiers aren't exact, really. I don't think magic or psionic things should be MDC. I don't really think godlings should be either, for instance. Then again, i don't think infantry small arms should do MDC either, to give you a better idea of where i'm coming from on this.

I'll give that point in low or even mid MDC games and as a GM I can see your angle..Hell I can appreciate it. Some one already mentioned the fact they hand out MDC like Nickel candy now a days.

Most magical beings should have some sort toughness to them, and until Rifts gets a better system than MDC/SDC and Immunities to damage types and with immunities having many exceptions from there said immunities that do hurt them but shouldn't; we GM's have little else to use for the most part.

Unless you rewrite rules on large scale...

[taalismn]

Fleas or deer ticks....You get MDC deer ticks, combating the spread of Lyme Disease gets a lot harder. And the 'pincer-and-match' method of removal, unless you got superhuman-plus strength behind the grips, is no longer and option.

[Nightmask]

Fleas or deer ticks....You get MDC deer ticks, combating the spread of Lyme Disease gets a lot harder. And the 'pincer-and-match' method of removal, unless you got superhuman-plus strength behind the grips, is no longer and option.

I'm curious why you'd think being MDC would make it any harder to remove a tick? It's not like having increased durability is going to make it any harder to remove them from someone's flesh, if anything makes it easier if they're sturdy enough to remain intact when you go pulling them off.

[Rimmerdal]

Fleas or deer ticks....You get MDC deer ticks, combating the spread of Lyme Disease gets a lot harder. And the 'pincer-and-match' method of removal, unless you got superhuman-plus strength behind the grips, is no longer and option.

I'm curious why you'd think being MDC would make it any harder to remove a tick? It's not like having increased durability is going to make it any harder to remove them from someone's flesh, if anything makes it easier if they're sturdy enough to remain intact when you go pulling them off.

juat watch too much skin doesn't get pulled with that tick. and watch out for MDC roaches...now they are the ones you need to worry about.

[taalismn]

Fleas or deer ticks....You get MDC deer ticks, combating the spread of Lyme Disease gets a lot harder. And the 'pincer-and-match' method of removal, unless you got superhuman-plus strength behind the grips, is no longer and option.

I'm curious why you'd think being MDC would make it any harder to remove a tick? It's not like having increased durability is going to make it any harder to remove them from someone's flesh, if anything makes it easier if they're sturdy enough to remain intact when you go pulling them off.

juat watch too much skin doesn't get pulled with that tick. and watch out for MDC roaches...now they are the ones you need to worry about.

Like he said. How many plugs of flesh are you willing to lose?
Not to mention the damn things would probably get other bonuses as well, like aerial tanker-level high speed blood pumping and the ability to expand to take in all that extra blood.

[Nightmask]

Fleas or deer ticks....You get MDC deer ticks, combating the spread of Lyme Disease gets a lot harder. And the 'pincer-and-match' method of removal, unless you got superhuman-plus strength behind the grips, is no longer and option.

I'm curious why you'd think being MDC would make it any harder to remove a tick? It's not like having increased durability is going to make it any harder to remove them from someone's flesh, if anything makes it easier if they're sturdy enough to remain intact when you go pulling them off.

juat watch too much skin doesn't get pulled with that tick. and watch out for MDC roaches...now they are the ones you need to worry about.

Like he said. How many plugs of flesh are you willing to lose?
Not to mention the damn things would probably get other bonuses as well, like aerial tanker-level high speed blood pumping and the ability to expand to take in all that extra blood.

If the tick's the normal size for ticks then you aren't going to be losing much if any flesh, being supernaturally durable isn't going to make your flesh somehow tougher so more of it gets torn out than would happen with a normal SDC tick. Tougher simply isn't relevant to how much damage removing one of them would deal.

[The Beast]

As far as dinos being MDC, I have always saw it as being mutated by the Rifts when they came through.

I feel that dinos could have done with less MDC (like much less in some cases).

Faeries are another race that should either had no MDC or low levels.

Fairies do have low MDC.

[Todd Yoho]

Anything that was not magic or psionic in nature. Why are dinosaurs MDC? They are just big animals. If dinos are MDC, why arent Elephants, Rhinos, ect...?

While it's not part of the Palladium megaverse canon due to the licensing issues going by TMNT things brought forward in time pick up Bio-E that results in mutations so perhaps it's simply that the dinosaurs are mutating due to all that temporal energy whereas the Elephants and Rhinos being modern without the extra temporal energy remain SDC?

Yeah, thats the best I can think of as well. Id like to see an in-game explanation though that does not fall back on the defunct TMNT license though. Like, perhaps Lazlo will study them and find that they are really latent creatures of magic, and when the magic levels dropped in Earth's history, they were easily killed off by other animals and mankind. When the Rifts returned, they also returned via Rifts and are now at their full potential (MDC) due to the elevated PPE in the atmo.

Since I am not a fan of retcon, and dinos are already established as MDC creatures, Id like to see some kind of in game reason for them being MDC, rather than simply rewriting all the World Books they are in to make them high SDC creatures.

That is, literally, how I intended them to be in DinoSwamp. I didn't come out and say it directly, but I really implied it if you look closely enough. The Mesozoic was a period of high PPE like Rifts Earth, so dinos in Rifts Earth are MDC.

[Rimmerdal]

Anything that was not magic or psionic in nature. Why are dinosaurs MDC? They are just big animals. If dinos are MDC, why arent Elephants, Rhinos, ect...?

While it's not part of the Palladium megaverse canon due to the licensing issues going by TMNT things brought forward in time pick up Bio-E that results in mutations so perhaps it's simply that the dinosaurs are mutating due to all that temporal energy whereas the Elephants and Rhinos being modern without the extra temporal energy remain SDC?

Yeah, thats the best I can think of as well. Id like to see an in-game explanation though that does not fall back on the defunct TMNT license though. Like, perhaps Lazlo will study them and find that they are really latent creatures of magic, and when the magic levels dropped in Earth's history, they were easily killed off by other animals and mankind. When the Rifts returned, they also returned via Rifts and are now at their full potential (MDC) due to the elevated PPE in the atmo.

Since I am not a fan of retcon, and dinos are already established as MDC creatures, Id like to see some kind of in game reason for them being MDC, rather than simply rewriting all the World Books they are in to make them high SDC creatures.

That is, literally, how I intended them to be in DinoSwamp. I didn't come out and say it directly, but I really implied it if you look closely enough. The Mesozoic was a period of high PPE like Rifts Earth, so dinos in Rifts Earth are MDC.

A high PPE setting? hmmm ancient pre human magical shamans? I can see them.. Great another class to make...LOL!

I love and hate inspiration...LOL!

[Kagashi]

Anything that was not magic or psionic in nature. Why are dinosaurs MDC? They are just big animals. If dinos are MDC, why arent Elephants, Rhinos, ect...?

While it's not part of the Palladium megaverse canon due to the licensing issues going by TMNT things brought forward in time pick up Bio-E that results in mutations so perhaps it's simply that the dinosaurs are mutating due to all that temporal energy whereas the Elephants and Rhinos being modern without the extra temporal energy remain SDC?

Yeah, thats the best I can think of as well. Id like to see an in-game explanation though that does not fall back on the defunct TMNT license though. Like, perhaps Lazlo will study them and find that they are really latent creatures of magic, and when the magic levels dropped in Earth's history, they were easily killed off by other animals and mankind. When the Rifts returned, they also returned via Rifts and are now at their full potential (MDC) due to the elevated PPE in the atmo.

Since I am not a fan of retcon, and dinos are already established as MDC creatures, Id like to see some kind of in game reason for them being MDC, rather than simply rewriting all the World Books they are in to make them high SDC creatures.

That is, literally, how I intended them to be in DinoSwamp. I didn't come out and say it directly, but I really implied it if you look closely enough. The Mesozoic was a period of high PPE like Rifts Earth, so dinos in Rifts Earth are MDC.

Out of curiosity, why did you not explicitly say that? It looks like you were still maintaining a bit of mystery (gene splicers, magical animals, mutants?) as the blurb on page 13 appears to be written "in character".

But I'll take an author's online answer to his true intent as cannon, for sure.

BTW, love the Wraith Brigades. By far, the best part of Adventures of Dino Swamp...now just need to find a GM willing to let me play one...

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Anything that was not magic or psionic in nature. Why are dinosaurs MDC? They are just big animals. If dinos are MDC, why arent Elephants, Rhinos, ect...?

While it's not part of the Palladium megaverse canon due to the licensing issues going by TMNT things brought forward in time pick up Bio-E that results in mutations so perhaps it's simply that the dinosaurs are mutating due to all that temporal energy whereas the Elephants and Rhinos being modern without the extra temporal energy remain SDC?

Yeah, thats the best I can think of as well. Id like to see an in-game explanation though that does not fall back on the defunct TMNT license though. Like, perhaps Lazlo will study them and find that they are really latent creatures of magic, and when the magic levels dropped in Earth's history, they were easily killed off by other animals and mankind. When the Rifts returned, they also returned via Rifts and are now at their full potential (MDC) due to the elevated PPE in the atmo.

Since I am not a fan of retcon, and dinos are already established as MDC creatures, Id like to see some kind of in game reason for them being MDC, rather than simply rewriting all the World Books they are in to make them high SDC creatures.

That is, literally, how I intended them to be in DinoSwamp. I didn't come out and say it directly, but I really implied it if you look closely enough. The Mesozoic was a period of high PPE like Rifts Earth, so dinos in Rifts Earth are MDC.

Works for me!

[ShadowLogan]

As far as dinos being MDC, I have always saw it as being mutated by the Rifts when they came through.

I feel that dinos could have done with less MDC (like much less in some cases).

Faeries are another race that should either had no MDC or low levels.

Fairies do have low MDC.

In what context are you using to say Fairies have low MDC? Simply raw value, or are you taking their actual size into consideration?

For their mass Fairies (in general) have very high MDC values. The lowest I know of is around ~58MDC per kilogram (Dinosaur Swamp Faire), with the bulk of Faires I'm familiar with from Conversion Book 1 between ~144 upto ~1,000+ per kilogram (if one includes Nymph, Sprite, and Bogie as Faire). An Eye of Eylor is lower (~44), and I am aware of only two creatures that fall into the Faire range (Chaos Beatles in DM#10 and Archie3 both of which are fairly small IIRC), the next best is a Soul Snake from Pyscape (~29) and the rest just go down from there because even though they have more MDC they have more mass.

[Jefffar]

Gods, they shouldn't be MDC. They should be invulnerable to all but Deific level attacks.

[The Beast]

As far as dinos being MDC, I have always saw it as being mutated by the Rifts when they came through.

I feel that dinos could have done with less MDC (like much less in some cases).

Faeries are another race that should either had no MDC or low levels.

Fairies do have low MDC.

In what context are you using to say Fairies have low MDC? Simply raw value, or are you taking their actual size into consideration?

For their mass Fairies (in general) have very high MDC values. The lowest I know of is around ~58MDC per kilogram (Dinosaur Swamp Faire), with the bulk of Faires I'm familiar with from Conversion Book 1 between ~144 upto ~1,000+ per kilogram (if one includes Nymph, Sprite, and Bogie as Faire). An Eye of Eylor is lower (~44), and I am aware of only two creatures that fall into the Faire range (Chaos Beatles in DM#10 and Archie3 both of which are fairly small IIRC), the next best is a Soul Snake from Pyscape (~29) and the rest just go down from there because even though they have more MDC they have more mass.

Nevermind. They were changed from the old CB1.

[Eashamahel]

I have no problem with Dinosaurs being MDC creatures, at there ORIGNAL level of MDC. Basically just that one step beyond SDC tough, but nowhere near a TRUE supernatural monster or creature of magic, a boulder to an elephants tree.

Psi-Stalkers should never have been made (given the ability to) become MDC. I understand they wanted to give the class the ability to fight supernatural creatures, but they should have done it through EXPERIENCE and instinct, an understanding of their prey.

- A normal human sees a supernatural predator as an incredibly powerful, nearly unstoppable monster, an creature made MDC through some kind of quirk of physics, which can only be harmed by the most powerful of human weapons. He shoots it a half dozen times, inflicting enough damage to cripple a dozen pre-Rifts tanks, and finally kills it.

- A Psi-Stalker sees a supernatural predator as a quirky deer, one who must be hunted a specific way. He holds a robin in his hand and it's call terrifies the creature (as he knew it would, as it is terrified of the sounds made by red birds), which runs due east, becoming trapped at a crossing of two rivers (which it can't cross), before being killed by the psi-stalker with a stake made of ash (which, through some quirk of physics, it is highly vulnerable to).

Expanding on the fact that supernatural predators are quirky creations of physics that have strengths and weaknesses, many of which make no sense scientifically but are known in the Lores of those who have encountered them before would have been a much better way to go (in my opinion) then just continuing with the 'everything that's a threat is the same, has to be shot to death' system.

[Dog_O_War]

Honey Badger, I don't think I need to give a reason here..but if you really need one..here is a National Geographic special on them..Snake killers: Honey badgers of the Kalahari (and its a good bit too. Quite informative.)

Would love to get this as a familiar..and of course one of the feared "Shadow Honey Badgers" (Hint Hint)

Whats on your list?

That would be quite possibly the WORST familiar; you couldn't order it around because it's such a badass, and it certainly wouldn't help you if you were in trouble.

Because the Honey Badger doesn't care; the Honey Badger doesn't give a s**t.

[Alrik Vas]

Well, my answer is to make most things MDC (even though my opinion is quite the opposite, it just makes things easier).

For instance, my PC's just fought some "trolls", they ambushed from pools in a swamp, they had low supernatural strength and they had 40-60 MDC each (5d6+30). The fight was fun and that's the general point.

Humans are still SDC, as are most enemies the PC's come across, to be honest. Though sometimes you make scary monsters like that. They also fought a crap ton of Grommicks recently, the first group had no MDC armor and one had a vibro-blade, the rest just had knives.

But the rest took their time, armored up, rallied and got a Mystic with them, then they met the PC's on even terms and it was a pretty epic fight! Of course, their armor was piecemail (AR 16, 35 MDC, some had shields that had an additional 30 MDC they could use to parry with) and the mystic buffed some of them (AoI, 30 MDC just to the front line so they could charge in).

Still, i'd prefer SDC opponents most of the time, too bad the majority of PC weapons do mega-damage.

[kaid]

I have no problem with Dinosaurs being MDC creatures, at there ORIGNAL level of MDC. Basically just that one step beyond SDC tough, but nowhere near a TRUE supernatural monster or creature of magic, a boulder to an elephants tree.

Psi-Stalkers should never have been made (given the ability to) become MDC. I understand they wanted to give the class the ability to fight supernatural creatures, but they should have done it through EXPERIENCE and instinct, an understanding of their prey.

- A normal human sees a supernatural predator as an incredibly powerful, nearly unstoppable monster, an creature made MDC through some kind of quirk of physics, which can only be harmed by the most powerful of human weapons. He shoots it a half dozen times, inflicting enough damage to cripple a dozen pre-Rifts tanks, and finally kills it.

- A Psi-Stalker sees a supernatural predator as a quirky deer, one who must be hunted a specific way. He holds a robin in his hand and it's call terrifies the creature (as he knew it would, as it is terrified of the sounds made by red birds), which runs due east, becoming trapped at a crossing of two rivers (which it can't cross), before being killed by the psi-stalker with a stake made of ash (which, through some quirk of physics, it is highly vulnerable to).

Expanding on the fact that supernatural predators are quirky creations of physics that have strengths and weaknesses, many of which make no sense scientifically but are known in the Lores of those who have encountered them before would have been a much better way to go (in my opinion) then just continuing with the 'everything that's a threat is the same, has to be shot to death' system.

I would agree with the psi stalker thing the whole MDC conversion was not really needed. Even with it it does not really help them fight supernatural critters much because they do not have supernatural strength so they wind up having to get gear and use tactics to beat the things anyway so I really don't see why they gave them MDC conversion. That and once home made armor from MDC animals became a pretty accepted armor that is a perfectly fine option for "savage" characters to defend themselves vs MDC opponents.

[Alrik Vas]

I give them SN PS when they go MDC. Makes sense to me. Either that or i just make everythying in the game world SDC. Whatever.

[Nightmask]

I give them SN PS when they go MDC. Makes sense to me. Either that or i just make everythying in the game world SDC. Whatever.

Why does that make sense? There's no particular reason to equate having MDC with supernatural PS, one is not required for the other (although both together is the most beneficial to exploit each). Titan Juicers for example have Supernatural PS but don't have the MDC (just LOTS of SDC) to back it up so require a bit of help to fully exploit it. By the same token something that is or becomes MDC shouldn't have supernatural PS as a freebie since Supernatural PS isn't required to be or have MDC.

[Kagashi]

I give them SN PS when they go MDC. Makes sense to me. Either that or i just make everythying in the game world SDC. Whatever.

Why does that make sense? There's no particular reason to equate having MDC with supernatural PS, one is not required for the other (although both together is the most beneficial to exploit each). Titan Juicers for example have Supernatural PS but don't have the MDC (just LOTS of SDC) to back it up so require a bit of help to fully exploit it. By the same token something that is or becomes MDC shouldn't have supernatural PS as a freebie since Supernatural PS isn't required to be or have MDC.

Makes more sense to have SN Str vs SN creatures than be MDC when a SN creature is in melee combat with it. Psi Stalkers are supposed to be mutants who evolved in drinking PPE from SN creatures...how can they do that if they still only deal SDC naturally? Without the aid of a tool (vibro knife, magic sword, whatever) they cannot eat. Doesn't sound like a very good mutation to me.

[Nightmask]

I give them SN PS when they go MDC. Makes sense to me. Either that or i just make everythying in the game world SDC. Whatever.

Why does that make sense? There's no particular reason to equate having MDC with supernatural PS, one is not required for the other (although both together is the most beneficial to exploit each). Titan Juicers for example have Supernatural PS but don't have the MDC (just LOTS of SDC) to back it up so require a bit of help to fully exploit it. By the same token something that is or becomes MDC shouldn't have supernatural PS as a freebie since Supernatural PS isn't required to be or have MDC.

Makes more sense to have SN Str vs SN creatures than be MDC when a SN creature is in melee combat with it. Psi Stalkers are supposed to be mutants who evolved in drinking PPE from SN creatures...how can they do that if they still only deal SDC naturally? Without the aid of a tool (vibro knife, magic sword, whatever) they cannot eat. Doesn't sound like a very good mutation to me.

Not all supernatural creatures are MDC and just because they evolved to feed on them doesn't mean that they actually ARE a good mutation, remember most actual mutations are worthless or actually harmful or come with trade offs (Sickle Cell Anemia provides protection against I think it's Malaria or Typhoid but it's not without harmful consequences for the person with it). So just because Psi-Stalkers are a sci-fi mutation to feed on supernatural creatures means that they're actually optimized for it or don't have downsides.

[Kagashi]

What supernatural creature is SDC in Rifts?

[Giant2005]

What supernatural creature is SDC in Rifts?

Prometheans and Phase Demons are the only things I can think of but they both have abilities that make their SDC almost as good as MDC (Or in the case of Phase Demons, considerably better than MDC).

[Kagashi]

What supernatural creature is SDC in Rifts?

Prometheans and Phase Demons are the only things I can think of but they both have abilities that make their SDC almost as good as MDC (Or in the case of Phase Demons, considerably better than MDC).

I guess Undead to as well, but undead HP/SDC is an entirely different ball of wax. I guess it is possible that they could have exclusively hunted undead (or as pointed out in another thread, some Chaos Demons have vulnerabilities to mundane items like simple bone and they could have been hunted by early psi stalkers as well).

[Alrik Vas]

I give them SN PS when they go MDC. Makes sense to me. Either that or i just make everythying in the game world SDC. Whatever.

Why does that make sense? There's no particular reason to equate having MDC with supernatural PS, one is not required for the other (although both together is the most beneficial to exploit each). Titan Juicers for example have Supernatural PS but don't have the MDC (just LOTS of SDC) to back it up so require a bit of help to fully exploit it. By the same token something that is or becomes MDC shouldn't have supernatural PS as a freebie since Supernatural PS isn't required to be or have MDC.

This has nothing to do with "you get SN PS if you're MDC", because i agree with you, one doesn't require the other. However, a psi-stalker has a paradigm of being a hunter of creatures of magic and the supernatural, and they are often portrayed as doing so with simple weapons. The simplest way to make them competitive in that kind of environment is to give them supernatural strength, and that is ONLY because most magic/SN beings are MDC. If Rifts didn't use MDC outside of PA and large scale creatures and vehicles, i wouldn't think psi-stalkers should have it.

[Tor]

You don't need supernatural PS to inflict MD. Among the heroic OCCs in Wormwood, only the Apok has it, for example. Everyone else has to use weapons to inflict MD. Although I think the FAQ added some note about them being able to inflict light MD to other MDC humans, but it wasn't simply slapping SNPS on them.

While we may see Psi-Stalkers combatting MDC creatures (namely Xiticix) with mundane-looking weapons, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are mundane weapons. For one thing, mundane SDC weapons will actually break if used to inflict MD while using supernatural PS (HU had rules along these lines even for inflicting higher SDC damage) so it's more likely that Psi-Stalkers have MDC weapons. They're not as hard to find as we might assume.

Stalkers who lack those cutting-edge weapons would probably be doing things like distracting, body-flipping, entangling, throwing nets, etc.

[Killer Cyborg]

Because whenever I hear the phrase "hunter of supernatural monsters," I think, "distracting backflips" and "purely defensive supernatural powers."

[Tor]

The ones who hunt have clearly procured MD weaponry or limit themselves to hunting SDC targets or MDC targets with unique vulnerabilities to SDC weapons, then.

Also I said body flips, not back flips. =/ As in "I'm throwing them on the ground" not "I'm doing a pretty dance".

[Killer Cyborg]

Fair enough.
I may had misunderstood your point, and we may be closer to the same page than I thought.

[Eashamahel]

I've just always pictured the psi-stalker mutation coming about due to the constant exposure to SUPERNATURAL creatures, and this close proximity over time has also lead to a great deal of tribal knowledge and lore.

I picutre Psi-Stalkers bursting from the bush yelling, gaining the attention of a supernatural (not just MDC, but acutally SUPERNATURAL) predator which chases them, all the way into an ambush, with the rest of the tribe armed with ash-wood spears, or iron tipped arrows, or knives made of the teeth another supernatural creatures, or falling into a pit which they have filled with flamable materials and toss torches into, ect. Knowing and exploiting the 'quirks of physics' these creatures originally had (and which Chaos Earth seems to have stuck with) to overcome the incredible abilities they possess, a combination of knowledge that makes the 'Stalker dangerous, physical ability that keeps the stalker alive, psychic powers and wilderness skills that give them the edge as hunters.

After the supernatural creatures lost the 'supernatural' aspect and everything just became a 'dinosaur with magic powers', the Psi-Stalker (especially the Wild one) started to look pretty silly (unless you accepted the idea that 'everyone' in RIFTS has hundreds of thousands of credits worth of super-weapons), and the shifting, simplified game concept needed to give them an edge, which could have worked, except their 'edge' doesn't actually help them in either the hunting or the killing of supernatural creatures.

[Killer Cyborg]

...simplified game concept needed to give them an edge, which could have worked, except their 'edge' doesn't actually help them in either the hunting or the killing of supernatural creatures.

Exactly.
It's trying to fix a flat tire by slapping a band-aid onto the radiator.

[Alrik Vas]

...simplified game concept needed to give them an edge, which could have worked, except their 'edge' doesn't actually help them in either the hunting or the killing of supernatural creatures.

Exactly.
It's trying to fix a flat tire by slapping a band-aid onto the radiator.

I think you just explained 90% of the problems that come along when people try to "fix" RPG's.