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How attractive is someone with minor power extraordinary P.B.?Are the better looking than a model or about the same?

I think a lot of that would be up to the GM, and how he sees the campaign world he has created. IN his or her setting, do Models have a PB of 18-24 (What a person could randomly roll) IF so, EPB would be unearthly beauty, beyond what even the most beautiful normal humans could attain.

Or, do models and celebrities actually have the EPB power, thus making super models and the must beautiful actors low level "metas" or sorts? It's really up to the GM and group to interpret it how they wish, I would think.

For what it's worth, there are canon NPC's who are described as "stunning, lookers, knock outs, etc" who do not have the EPB power, just high PB scores (16 & up)

In the robotics category you can buy "movie star" looks with a P.B. of 20.

I would say hotter almost god/goddess like beauty.

I would say its a perception filter that simply accesses what the subjective beholder finds attractive - so if the beholder is into a Rubineque form, that's what they see. If they like what sir mixalot does, that's what they see. And so on.

What the person actually looks like is a mystery.

Now look buddy I'm a Techno-wizard that means I solve problems. Not problems like "what is beauty?" cause that would fall into your conundrums of philosophy, but since your asking a PC with EPB would look like a photograph of a model that has been airbrushed only IRL. Real models aren't as perfect as the media would have us believe.

IN his or her setting, do Models have a PB of 18-24 (What a person could randomly roll) IF so, EPB would be unearthly beauty, beyond what even the most beautiful normal humans could attain.

Not sure I follow you. Let's say you don't have EPB and randomly roll a PB of 23, maybe 24. Let's say another person has EPB and rolls -- a 22, maybe a 23. Who's more beautiful?

Well, ultimately, I think it's a game master call. THat being said, I think I would rule the person with EPB is more beautiful, in the same way a Person with EPS can lift more than a normal person, even if their PS score is a few points lower.

To me, having the power should always trump not having the power, but another GM might just look at the respective attribute scores and rule off that.

Does Ex PB have a bonus to the Charm/Impress roll? Or is the increase purely to the stat?

Because honestly, how hot you are depends on who you make that roll against. You can fail versus a fashion critic and pull the whole show down the drain, you can succeed vs a hard working, loyal, patient individual and live happily ever after...whatever.

The eye of the beholder idea is who is affected by the PB.

How hot? Well, barring extenuating circumstances, I'd say about 98.6 Fahrenheit

Does Ex PB have a bonus to the Charm/Impress roll? Or is the increase purely to the stat?

No bonus to Charm/Impress beyond just increasing the stat -- but it adds a +10% to stuff like palming and pick pockets. So if, say, you already have a 98% in all those skills, and you happen to have a PB of 23, there's no apparent difference between Extraordinary beauty and the usual stuff.

(Likewise, if you have a 24 PB and are above 50% in those skills, while the Extraordinary guy tops out at 22 and below 50%...)

I envision that a high PB, extremely high would be on the lines of a person who is considered iconic

Like Marilyn Monroe during her era, Pamela Anderson In The 90's or Sophia Loren in her heyday

Such beauty would be transcendent and considered to be the most beautiful of their time or generation

The way I see it is this. There are many women that I have known in my life that are very attractive. Even beautiful. But they don't generate an instant, primal reaction in people that see them. So I would view them as maybe 13 to 15 P.B. Once you get to 16 or 17, you get women who are usually selected by talent scouts and offered jobs as models. When you get up to 23 or 24, you get A-list celebrities and supermodels.
Now in real life, there is likely a point of diminishing returns at the higher levels. You have good symmetry, and general aesthetic appeal. It's hard to get past 23 or 24, because that is really the peak. It's hard to make the human body more perfect. But this isn't real life. You have people who are literally superhumanly beautiful. Your charm/impress score can reach the 80s and 90s.
Now granted, Palladium is a little vague on what charm/impress does. Scratch that, they simply don't tell you what it means. A good GM will roleplay NPCs accordingly. A bad one will be like "Yeah, okay, she thinks you're hot, whatever," and play the person the same. But that's another topic.
What does superhuman beauty actually mean? Well, you probably can't put your finger on it. You can't just say "Bigger *****" or "Blue eyes. Like, um, really blue. More than normal." Those things don't automatically grant a higher P.B.
So you probably get people saying things like "I don't know, she just has a... quality," or "I don't know why, I just can't get her face out of my mind!"
If that person is in the room, you probably have trouble concentrating on anything but that person, unless you are doing something something important. And even if you are doing something important, there's probably that voice in the back of your head saying, "Wow, I hope she notices all the important stuff I'm doing!"

My benchmarks are as follows for all stats
1-3 Feeble
4-8 Poor
9-11 Average
15 Professional athlete/movie star/Genius
20 Olympic athlete/super model
25 Olympic Medalist/World class beauty
30 Olympic Gold Medalist/Helen of Troy

I disagree with the bonus system palladium uses. I mean lets take IQ; the guy with an average IQ of 10 (100) gets the same bonus as the genius with an IQ of 15 (150). Someone with a strength of 10 can carry 100 but lift (x30 according to N&SS) = 300, while a PS of 15 can carry 300 (x20 but if you were to follow the example of PS 10 it would be x3 and not x2 and would be x60, but is only x40). The guy who can carry 100 does the same punch damage as the guy who can carry 300 lb.

Beauty percentage doesn't follow either. If 10 is average then shouldn't it be 50%? and if so the natural factor then is Stat x 5%. But according to the chart, IF you give 10 a % it would be 15%, which is decidedly not average (PB 16=40%+/-5% per increase/decrease. But it slows down the better looking you are. The entire bonus system is artificially kept low.

PS at 10 is x10/x30, at 24+ its x50/x100
PB at 16 = 40% and raises 5% per point up to 23 where its +4% and then at 28 its +2%
A PB of 15, which is really good going by Palladium's own equation of IQ translation (that being IQ x 10=rw IQ) then IQ 15 is genius and 15 PB is a knockout, someone you wouldn't toss out of bed for eating crackers. but yet they would either have 0% chance to charm and impress you (which makes 15 equal to 3 which means you might as well be quasimodo) OR if you follow their number scheme that 16=40%, 15=35%, which means that someone who is well above average has a much less than average chance of picking someone up at a bar based on looks.
The stats don't just reflect diminishing returns due to steady increases vs percentage, it is actually diminishing returns where the higher you go the less you actually get.

And really can it be called a SUPER power if it only gets you within normal rolling range of a normal human? I can roll a 30 PB, but can only get a 28 with the power

Blah
10 is average
15 is good looking; Model (sears/RL/clothing stores) most actors that are considered good looking
20 is very good looking and gets you on covers of magazines; fashion model, people want you walking the catwalk in their clothes. Keep your mouth shut, smile and watch the rolling green, you are commonly on everyone's top ten most beautiful people
25 gets you on a cover every week, the rags send paparazi after you and movie producers want you in their movies despite you inability to memorize lines or act. Super Model. World known for you beauty. Idiocy is seen as endearing innocence, cruelty is seen as a troubled soul,
30 gets you on everyone's hallpass list. Helen of troy. Wars would be fought over you. You are nigh divine
31+ You get an awe factor. Your beauty inspires fanatic cults. It proves to people that there is divine grace.

If you want a comparison look at WW, each dot = 5 points
*Poor: Ugly as a mud fence. = 5
**Average: You don't stand out in a crowd, for better or for worse. = 10
***Good: Strangers offer to buy you drinks at bars. = 15
****Exceptional: You are appealing enough to be a model, and people often go out of their way to tell you so. = 20
*****Outstanding: People react to you with either insane jealousy or beatific awe. = 25

I'm kinda with Killwatch on this. In part. "Extraordinary" Traits are 'technically' a super power but they're pardon the term 'Just' extraordianry.

That's the thing. A 'normal' human "COULD" acheive that level of trait, be it PP or PE or PB. Hince the "Extraordinary" part and not "Superhuman"

It's these sorts of traits that are almost a given for any costumed hero. Outside one or two that specificly go against type, the Heroes from our comics are tight, ULTRA TONED, ultra defined beautiful people, "With powers"

If you look at Cyclopes, he's got the body of a guy that spends 60 hours in the gym every week but he's not 'Super human' in his strength or endurance or anything. he's just 'peak human'. You get the impression that he works out but not that he's spending almost every waking moment in the gymn maintaining it.

As for the women. wow. You'd think that 16 was 'baseline' for comic women's PB. Again, sure there's a few that dip below, but those that do, typicily do so as part of their 'hook'.

I've always thought and indeed in my games offer the other two 'Steps' for Attributes that Strength gets.

Extraordinary
Superhuman
Supernatural.

The Extraordinary is just like the ones we have in the book. This elevates the hero to 'peek human levels' with out having to work out 24/7/365 to maintain it.
Superhuman: this is where it becomes a real "power" vs just ease of life. This is the Helen of Troy with beauty. This is the Agility of Tigra or Psyloc. This is the endurance or strength of Captain America.

Then you have...

Supernatural: Much like strength this is the next step up and it shows. This is "GODDESS" Type beauty, beauty that's so strong that it actually hurts one to look at. That could cause madness from the beauty and perfection as the mind trys and perhaps fails to comprehend the level of beauty before them. The "True sidhe" would have this sort of level. Goddesses, beings of Myth. This is Aphrodite. such as that. I know it's not the point of the OP but I also allow people to take PP or such at this level. Gambit for example would have a PP at this level. Just that totally ungodly agility. I distinctly remember him playing basket ball with the Xmen "No powers" but gambit couldn't turn his off and was making shots all over the place, including upside down flying through the air as Wolverine hip checked him, eyes covered the works.

Now these are not meant as conversions. No stats where given. These were given as pardon the turn of phrase "Real world examples" Just like the HU book references Superman or the Hulk when explaining the mega hero.

The sad thing is, even the Megas don't properly reach anything approaching Marvel. If you do the math for 100 ton strength, say that of a certain god of thunder, wielding a hammer. By comparison, HU megas, and even just supernatural strength is nowhere near a marvel equivalent. You would have to break creation rules to make it happen.

which I did, and it worked out fine;

1-9=x5 (5-45)
10-15=x10 (100-150)
16-30=x20 (320-600)
31-40=x50 (1550-2000/1t)
41-50=x100 (4100/2t-5000/2t)
51-60=x200 (10200/5t-12000/6t)
61-75=x500 (30500/15t-37500/19t)
76-100=x1000 (76000/38t-100,000/50t) 50 tons x 2 = 100tons
101-250=x2000
251-300=x5000
301-500=x10k
501-1000=x200k
1000-3000=x500k
3001-5000=x1m

A more eloquent way to do it is simple and there are no gaps
PS x PS x (PS/10)
10 x 10 x 1 = 100 lb carry for PS of 10
100 x 100 x 10 = 100,000 lb = 50 ton carry
500 x 500 x 50 = 12,500,000=6,250 ton carry
The issue here is the area where most characters are going to fall is unrealistic;
20 x 20 x 2 = 800 lb carry 1600 lb lift
30 x 30 x 3 = 2700 lb carry and 5400 lb lift which is 2 tons
every number is accounted for, no holes in weight limits like 15-16=150-320, but what could be considered a serious flaw in the system

One fix might be that anything over 30 gets the last modifier. So 30 would then be 30x30=900c/1800 lift 1800 is humanly doable
But then you have the gap from 30-31 or 30-40 whenever you want to initiate it.
Either way is still better than the standard of multi strength categories and top outs to multipliers

Tearstone wrote:If you do the math for 100 ton strength, say that of a certain god of thunder, wielding a hammer. By comparison, HU megas, and even just supernatural strength is nowhere near a marvel equivalent. You would have to break creation rules to make it happen.

You could easily lift 100 tons by helping Supernatural Strength along with Gravity Manipulation.

Tearstone wrote:The sad thing is, even the Megas don't properly reach anything approaching Marvel. If you do the math for 100 ton strength, say that of a certain god of thunder, wielding a hammer. By comparison, HU megas, and even just supernatural strength is nowhere near a marvel equivalent. You would have to break creation rules to make it happen.

It's always been that way though. If you read, it's on purpose. Built into the game to encourage the 'Thinking man's heroes'. They don't see it as a fault but actually as a 'feature' of the system/game

Which is kind of insulting as 'high power' games can require just as much thinking especially as you're going to see threats scale up as well, sure bank robbers are less of an issue, but Doctor Brainiac miniaturizing the planet is it's own issue for them to deal with.


Daniel Stoker

I don't see how high stats takes away from a thinking man's game. If the Gm can't think around it then it wouldn't have been a thinking man's game anyhow.
OOOh I'm Hulk I smash I have PS 500 I destroy things
Oh well I am Justice, I have telekinesis and can lift 1 ton with my mind. How much do you weigh Hulk?
or
Hey I'm any psychic worth his salt. I have bio manipulation-paralysis.

I am all for players being the best at something. but they leave other things vulnerable.

and Gravity Manipulation is just a back door to getting what you want. I want the front door. Give me XPS x a bunch. I can hit stuff hard and lift a LOT. Its simple and straight forward. A benefit of this in my game is that as long as there is no supernatural reason, X attributes cannot be negated. If you want to say that you are still a small guy with a strength of 75 that won't work. But if your strength comes with the mass, what? you get smaller?

I could build thor. I'd have to tweak a rule and remove some limiters but I could do it in my game

Bank robbers: Not a cosmic crime but I can give any power level with the wrong power set plenty of problems, especially if the robbers are evil or close to it and it becomes a car chase (running up on curbs, running over people, causing accidents, vehicles bursting into fire, oh do they have grenades???) or worse yet it becomes a hostage situation. even thor can be paralyzed into non-action by a couple of thugs with fully automatic weapons and no qualms about wasting some patrons.

A normal human serial killer is more than enough to keep a group of megabeings busy, because it isn't about the combat, its finding them. And when you do they give up

Hey, lol, I'm not justifying it. I'm just saying in the book it's clearly done on purpose. They didn't even want to put the Mega hero in, but it was a partial concession to player demand. It's right there in the mega hero write up.

I know I have the revised edition that has the "what no guy with the s on his shirt" section.
I guess I never saw the need for a megahero. I played with the tools I had, broke them and made new ones. If I needed a superman what did I need to do and how could I get there? and made it happen. Blhazes kind of threw everything regarding super powers out the window, having like what 10 minor powers and some majors, then having characters with Sonic Speed x 2. If you can do it so can I, but I was already doing it long before both of them. HOLY CRAP did I just out myself as a grognard hipster?

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Hey, lol, I'm not justifying it. I'm just saying in the book it's clearly done on purpose. They didn't even want to put the Mega hero in, but it was a partial concession to player demand. It's right there in the mega hero write up.

NP, I wasn't blaming you, more venting on something that always frustrated me.


Daniel Stoker