New Class feature for Spell Casters - Spell binding

[jaymz]

New Class ability for the Ley Line Walker, Shifter, Wizard, Magi (Battle, High and Lord) and Witch (any other more "typical" spellcaster that should be included?)


Spell binding


Standard Binding:


Maximum spell that can be bound is 5th

Cost of binding the spell is the PPE cost less 1

Also must use 1 point of SDC to seal the spell in so to speak

Duration of binding is indefinite

Caster can only Regenerate 3/4 of the PPE used until the Spell is activated. This means the caster temporarily loses 25% of the cost (typicaly 1-3 points though it is a minimum of 1) and cannot access it until the spell has been activated.

Only the binding caster can activate the spell.

Must use at least a semi precious stone a minimum of 1/2 inch in diameter or a piece of wood/branch at least 6 inches long freshly cut (as in the binding must take place within an hour of being cut) from a live tree.

Cost to activate is 1 PPE. This is essentially the 1 PPE that was not bound thus "completing" the casting of the spell so to speak.

Only one activation can be done per action/attack

Once activated the object the spell is bound too is essentially destroyed/disintigrated

Note - there are exceptions that will be noted later as to what spells may not be bound (Such as Death Curse)



Permanent Binding:


Cost of Binding is a permanent loss of the PPE cost of the spell

Also the Caster permanently loses 1 point of PE

Object used must be a pure precious metal ring (Silver, gold platinum etc) with a 1/8 of an inch wide band, or a piece of wood/branch at least 12 inches long freshly cut from a live tree, for each spell being bound. Thus 3 spells would be a 3/8 wide band ring or a 36" Wand/Half Staff.

This would account for the history of Magic Staffs, wands and rings.

Cost to activate is 1 PPE for the binding caster or 10% of the original spells cost (minimum of 2) for any other magic user.

Only one spell can be activated per melee regardless of the number of spells IN the object. The object essentially needs to recharge after every casting.

SDC or the Object is tripled and can only be broken by supernatural strength. SDC becomes MDC in MDC environments.

Multiple Spells can be bound to a single object

[wyrmraker]

This sounds more like Techno-Wizardry for the average mage. However, I could be misinterpreting your intent.

[jaymz]

That isn't the intent. Also TW (and things like talisman) are meant to be used repeatedly with recharging. Even a permanently bound Spell isn't quite as efficient as a TW device or talisman....it is meant to be a lower level ability for mages to be more "prepared" and give them more "stamina" in the field so to speak.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I find that while you did state the details of what you wanted to say, you forgot to Get the Concept out before you wrote the details.

What do I mean by stating the concept? This means Saying the basic IDEA!!! in it's completeness somewhere in the description. The Way it is written in the OP leaves out what Idea you are trying to get across. Leaving people to guess at what you mean via the details.

An example of this stating the idea can be found in any well written Spell. In each there is a "title", "stats", and the spell text. It is the spell text that conveys the Idea of the spell.

So could you write out some text to coney what the idea you had with out going into the details you have already posted, please.

----------------------
Opinions on what I could decipher...

This is an example of (liberal Pov) Magical Proficiency or skill a Mage (not Intuitive nor Granted magic users) or (more appropriately) a class power of a specialty mage or something an Alchemist can do.
Intuitive magic user, Examples: mystics & Warlocks.
Granted magic user, Examples: Witches & Priests.

NOT something ALL magic classes could do just because they use magic.

[johnkretzer]

I kinda like the idea.

[ShadowLogan]

I'm not sure I see a need for this per say, given the variety of spells available that already "enchant" objects (over 20 in the Invocation section of the Rifts Book of Magic, and I skipped "agile animation" and "healing" spells). Admittedly this is more versatile than most of the examples of enchantments I could find in the Rifts Book of Magic. It really comes across as a cheaper way to make a Talisman or circumvent Create Magic Scroll's literacy requirement, and allow for interruptions in casting.

It might just be easier to create a cheaper version of CMS/Talisman Spell/Rituals that self-destructs (fully/partially) when the magic is released that is cheaper in PPE (CMS removes the writing once activated). It just seems awfully cheap to bind PPE to an object indefinitely until needed compared to other known examples.

[Damian Magecraft]

I'm not sure I see a need for this per say, given the variety of spells available that already "enchant" objects (over 20 in the Invocation section of the Rifts Book of Magic, and I skipped "agile animation" and "healing" spells). Admittedly this is more versatile than most of the examples of enchantments I could find in the Rifts Book of Magic. It really comes across as a cheaper way to make a Talisman or circumvent Create Magic Scroll's literacy requirement, and allow for interruptions in casting.

It might just be easier to create a cheaper version of CMS/Talisman Spell/Rituals that self-destructs (fully/partially) when the magic is released that is cheaper in PPE (CMS removes the writing once activated). It just seems awfully cheap to bind PPE to an object indefinitely until needed compared to other known examples.

How is that any different than the Talismans PPE storage ability?
To me this is a nice twist on the Create Scroll and Talisman spells.
A precursor to it if you will, and it does not supersede the need for existing spells or abilities. (always important when tinkering with magic abilities).

all in all a well rounded and thought out modification to the system.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I would still like to hear the "Idea text" for the OP "stats".

[Damian Magecraft]

I would still like to hear the "Idea text" for the OP "stats".

Its a house rule mechanic not a submission to the rifter...

[drewkitty ~..~]

I would still like to hear the "Idea text" for the OP "stats".

Its a house rule mechanic not a submission to the rifter...

I've accknowledged that "The Stats Are There".

But without the core Idea, then the stats are useless except to munchkins as a way to "Power Up" their chars.

[Damian Magecraft]

I would still like to hear the "Idea text" for the OP "stats".

Its a house rule mechanic not a submission to the rifter...

I've accknowledged that "The Stats Are There".

But without the core Idea, then the stats are useless except to munchkins as a way to "Power Up" their chars.

The core Idea seems pretty self evident if you ask me...
this is a mechanic to cover a perceived deficit in the mage class.
a 5000 word preamble is unneeded.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I would still like to hear the "Idea text" for the OP "stats".

Its a house rule mechanic not a submission to the rifter...

I've accknowledged that "The Stats Are There".

But without the core Idea, then the stats are useless except to munchkins as a way to "Power Up" their chars.

The core Idea seems pretty self evident if you ask me...
this is a mechanic to cover a perceived deficit in the mage class.
a 5000 word preamble is unneeded.

a 20 word preamble would be great for those of us who don't see what deficit you are trying to address, however. what is obvious to you is not obvious to 100% of the people.

seriously, i've read it twice and have yet to figure out what exactly binding a spell does. it just assumes I know what you mean when you say a spell is bound, and I don't.

[Damian Magecraft]

I would still like to hear the "Idea text" for the OP "stats".

Its a house rule mechanic not a submission to the rifter...

I've accknowledged that "The Stats Are There".

But without the core Idea, then the stats are useless except to munchkins as a way to "Power Up" their chars.

The core Idea seems pretty self evident if you ask me...
this is a mechanic to cover a perceived deficit in the mage class.
a 5000 word preamble is unneeded.

a 20 word preamble would be great for those of us who don't see what deficit you are trying to address, however. what is obvious to you is not obvious to 100% of the people.

seriously, i've read it twice and have yet to figure out what exactly binding a spell does. it just assumes I know what you mean when you say a spell is bound, and I don't.

not my house rule Nekira...
Its Jaymz's.

Binding a spell to an object seems to be a fairly straight forward statement...
the spell is now primed in an object and ready to cast at a later point (only requiring the final PPE point to activate).
Its a variation on "hanging spells" or Vancian Casting if you will.

[ShadowLogan]

I'm not sure I see a need for this per say, given the variety of spells available that already "enchant" objects (over 20 in the Invocation section of the Rifts Book of Magic, and I skipped "agile animation" and "healing" spells). Admittedly this is more versatile than most of the examples of enchantments I could find in the Rifts Book of Magic. It really comes across as a cheaper way to make a Talisman or circumvent Create Magic Scroll's literacy requirement, and allow for interruptions in casting.

It might just be easier to create a cheaper version of CMS/Talisman Spell/Rituals that self-destructs (fully/partially) when the magic is released that is cheaper in PPE (CMS removes the writing once activated). It just seems awfully cheap to bind PPE to an object indefinitely until needed compared to other known examples.

How is that any different than the Talismans PPE storage ability?
To me this is a nice twist on the Create Scroll and Talisman spells.
A precursor to it if you will, and it does not supersede the need for existing spells or abilities. (always important when tinkering with magic abilities).

all in all a well rounded and thought out modification to the system.

To answer your 1st question: PPE cost is not merely determined by the Spell being installed based on the CSM/Tal. descriptions in the Rifts Book of Magic (basically the same in RUE, RMB, PF2E)

CSM: 100PPE PLUS PPE needed to cast the spell (100+ PPE)
Talisman:
-500 PPE initially (may or may not include the cost of the spell component's PPE)
-50 PPE PLUS Spell PPE per each casting to recharge (50+ PPE)
-as a PPE battery it's at a 2:1 ratio. Put 2 PPE in now, and later can take out 1 PPE.

All of these have indefinite charges until activated, but don't merely cost the PPE of the spell (in total) like other enchantment spells that are short duration in comparison. The permanent aspect may be a bit steep when compared to other more specialized aspects (Golem, Zombie, Mummy, Enchanted Weapon @ 15th level).

The only real draw back is that these artifacts can only be used by the mage who created them AND PPE recovery (which given the right resources isn't as much of a draw back).

This also runs counter to the spell/ritual interruption aspect of Palladium Magic. At best you can interrupt a Ritual for ~30sec, not indefinitely as defined here. Even Circle/Wards Magic in PF2E doesn't (IIRC) use PPE like this.

[Damian Magecraft]

I'm not sure I see a need for this per say, given the variety of spells available that already "enchant" objects (over 20 in the Invocation section of the Rifts Book of Magic, and I skipped "agile animation" and "healing" spells). Admittedly this is more versatile than most of the examples of enchantments I could find in the Rifts Book of Magic. It really comes across as a cheaper way to make a Talisman or circumvent Create Magic Scroll's literacy requirement, and allow for interruptions in casting.

It might just be easier to create a cheaper version of CMS/Talisman Spell/Rituals that self-destructs (fully/partially) when the magic is released that is cheaper in PPE (CMS removes the writing once activated). It just seems awfully cheap to bind PPE to an object indefinitely until needed compared to other known examples.

How is that any different than the Talismans PPE storage ability?
To me this is a nice twist on the Create Scroll and Talisman spells.
A precursor to it if you will, and it does not supersede the need for existing spells or abilities. (always important when tinkering with magic abilities).

all in all a well rounded and thought out modification to the system.

To answer your 1st question: PPE cost is not merely determined by the Spell being installed based on the CSM/Tal. descriptions in the Rifts Book of Magic (basically the same in RUE, RMB, PF2E)

CSM: 100PPE PLUS PPE needed to cast the spell (100+ PPE)
Talisman:
-500 PPE initially (may or may not include the cost of the spell component's PPE)
-50 PPE PLUS Spell PPE per each casting to recharge (50+ PPE)
-as a PPE battery it's at a 2:1 ratio. Put 2 PPE in now, and later can take out 1 PPE.

All of these have indefinite charges until activated, but don't merely cost the PPE of the spell (in total) like other enchantment spells that are short duration in comparison. The permanent aspect may be a bit steep when compared to other more specialized aspects (Golem, Zombie, Mummy, Enchanted Weapon @ 15th level).

The only real draw back is that these artifacts can only be used by the mage who created them AND PPE recovery (which given the right resources isn't as much of a draw back).

This also runs counter to the spell/ritual interruption aspect of Palladium Magic. At best you can interrupt a Ritual for ~30sec, not indefinitely as defined here. Even Circle/Wards Magic in PF2E doesn't (IIRC) use PPE like this.

we must have different definitions of cheap...
the proposed ability requires
a semi permanent expenditure of PPE (25% of the spells cost)
a semi permanent expenditure of hp/sdc
an aggie (a large marble) sized semi-precious stone (the item is destroyed after activation)

The permanent binding costs
A permanent loss of the entire cost of said spell
A permanent loss of one PE (which effects HP as well)

those are pretty steep prices if you ask me.

[Giant2005]

I'm not sure I see a need for this per say, given the variety of spells available that already "enchant" objects (over 20 in the Invocation section of the Rifts Book of Magic, and I skipped "agile animation" and "healing" spells). Admittedly this is more versatile than most of the examples of enchantments I could find in the Rifts Book of Magic. It really comes across as a cheaper way to make a Talisman or circumvent Create Magic Scroll's literacy requirement, and allow for interruptions in casting.

It might just be easier to create a cheaper version of CMS/Talisman Spell/Rituals that self-destructs (fully/partially) when the magic is released that is cheaper in PPE (CMS removes the writing once activated). It just seems awfully cheap to bind PPE to an object indefinitely until needed compared to other known examples.

How is that any different than the Talismans PPE storage ability?
To me this is a nice twist on the Create Scroll and Talisman spells.
A precursor to it if you will, and it does not supersede the need for existing spells or abilities. (always important when tinkering with magic abilities).

all in all a well rounded and thought out modification to the system.

To answer your 1st question: PPE cost is not merely determined by the Spell being installed based on the CSM/Tal. descriptions in the Rifts Book of Magic (basically the same in RUE, RMB, PF2E)

CSM: 100PPE PLUS PPE needed to cast the spell (100+ PPE)
Talisman:
-500 PPE initially (may or may not include the cost of the spell component's PPE)
-50 PPE PLUS Spell PPE per each casting to recharge (50+ PPE)
-as a PPE battery it's at a 2:1 ratio. Put 2 PPE in now, and later can take out 1 PPE.

All of these have indefinite charges until activated, but don't merely cost the PPE of the spell (in total) like other enchantment spells that are short duration in comparison. The permanent aspect may be a bit steep when compared to other more specialized aspects (Golem, Zombie, Mummy, Enchanted Weapon @ 15th level).

The only real draw back is that these artifacts can only be used by the mage who created them AND PPE recovery (which given the right resources isn't as much of a draw back).

This also runs counter to the spell/ritual interruption aspect of Palladium Magic. At best you can interrupt a Ritual for ~30sec, not indefinitely as defined here. Even Circle/Wards Magic in PF2E doesn't (IIRC) use PPE like this.

we must have different definitions of cheap...
the proposed ability requires
a semi permanent expenditure of PPE (25% of the spells cost)
a semi permanent expenditure of hp/sdc
an aggie (a large marble) sized semi-precious stone (the item is destroyed after activation)

The permanent binding costs
A permanent loss of the entire cost of said spell
A permanent loss of one PE (which effects HP as well)

those are pretty steep prices if you ask me.

I disagree, I think the costs are VERY cheap.
The temp item lowers your PPE by 25% of the spells cost temporarily but it also saves you 75% of the spells cost when you need it. It isn't a 25% cost, it is a 75% saving every time you get to a Ley Line. It is effectively a way to bypass the normal limits of holding 300% of your base PPE reserve.
There is a semi-permanent cost in HP/SDC and that is the only real cost involved. I just don't think it is that significant although it does serve to prevent abuse - mages would be more reluctant to be carrying around quivers full of pre-cast spells.
The stone isn't a real cost as I doubt a mage would ever use one. Why waste a precious stone when you can do the same thing with a twig?

The situation gets much worse with respect to the permanent items. By permanently dropping 15 PPE, you can enchant a twig that is capable of casting Armor Bizarre or any number of very useful spells, every 15 seconds. That is obscenely powerful - there is a reason why all of the canon magic items are limited by uses per day or other long recharge times and not per melee. That reason is balance.
The cost of a PE point is nice and it means that a single mage can't get too carried away with the feature but let's face it, most mages would make as many wands as they could with these creation rules. These wands would give them far more power than they could ever hope to get otherwise.

[Damian Magecraft]

If I were to use this House Rule
I would make a few alterations.
I would not use the twig alternative
It would effect HP not SDC
and the permanent variation would not exist.

[Giant2005]

If I were to use this House Rule
I would make a few alterations.
I would not use the twig alternative
It would effect HP not SDC
and the permanent variation would not exist.

That sounds much better. The twig thing is probably the major issue, if it cost a few thousand credits to do each time there would be a very real opportunity cost involved which balances the power out.

[ShadowLogan]

we must have different definitions of cheap...
the proposed ability requires
a semi permanent expenditure of PPE (25% of the spells cost)
a semi permanent expenditure of hp/sdc
an aggie (a large marble) sized semi-precious stone (the item is destroyed after activation)

The permanent binding costs
A permanent loss of the entire cost of said spell
A permanent loss of one PE (which effects HP as well)

those are pretty steep prices if you ask me.

We probably do.

From a PPE perspective the indefinite Spell binding is pretty damn cheap. To bind a spell with Talisman or Magic Scroll is much more expensive in comparison as they both require at minimum 100 PPE. With this ability PPE is merely the cost of the spell, which is typically less than 15 PPE for spells 1-5, I found only a few that are above this (regular invocation). That is pretty cheap: 100+ PPE (w/Tal or CMS) > 15 PPE (bulk of level 1-5 spells). That this feature prevents full PPE regeneration is noted, but is not that expensive (25% of 15PPE is 4) even without the right circumstances (people to donate PPE) or location (ley line) or preparation (energy sphere, PPE battery) unless you have made up a lot of items.

The expenditure of HP/SDC is cheap when you compare it to: Create Golem at 6SDC (CG) > 1 SDC (class feature). create Golem is the only spell/ritual that comes to mind readily that has an SDC cost associated with it that is applicable. CG unlike this feature is permanent, so the SDC cost here is still cheap on several fronts.

The semi-precious stone might be expensive, but is not required as written since you can replace it with wood (cheap). Even with the stone, Create Golem requires 2-3 stones, not 1 (cheap). It might be more expensive compared to Stone Magic (3or6 casting depending on size vs 1), but stone magic has more demanding requirements on the gem than this class feature (it has to be free of flaws, nothing about quality is mentioned here so can go cheap)

A permanent loss of PPE can still be cheap depending on the spell used and what RAW magic ability one compares it to. Enchant Weapon (Minor) is 2d4, but Ley Line Restoration is 6d6. (I know LLR isn't enchanting an object, but it does have a PPE cost that is lost permanently for a permanent effect). Shaman in Rifts Canada has a cost of 10 or 20PPE (depending on the item) for a supporting SN creature to make magic artifacts. This is more of a gray area, but it is still possible to get away cheap.

A loss of a PE point is about the only expensive thing here, but certainly manageable.