Saying spells out loud?

[flatline]

Aren't there mages in Underseas that cast spells without saying the words?

--flatline

[jaymz]

I believe that would be for ocean magic.....

[Killer Cyborg]

Aren't there mages in Underseas that cast spells without saying the words?

--flatline

Yes.

[Akashic Soldier]

Dont they hum or sing or something?

I read something about this last week in Underseas but I am having a hard time recalling?

[jaymz]

Those are the whale singers but I do not think those are the ocean magic users. Now I'll need to go get Underseas and read it again, darn!

[Akashic Soldier]

Those are the whale singers but I do not think those are the ocean magic users. Now I'll need to go get Underseas and read it again, darn!

I know that there is a spell that will allow you to cast spells under water but its like 6th level? I think its the greater version of swim like a fish?

[Pepsi Jedi]

Page 63 addresses it. First paragraph

"Ocean magic DOES require the spoken word or a series of sounds suitable by dolphins, whales and aquatic Dbees who can speak or communicate through clicks, groans, and whistles."

Second point

"Humans and creatures like humans who normally use the spoken word to cast magic may find it difficult to cast spells underwater, but not impossible."

It goes on to talk about using loudspeakers on power armor or some are gifted with the ability to speak under water. I'm lazy and not gonna type it all out. lol (( As a note, Ocean Wizards all have that ability))

[Lenwen]

It goes on to talk about using loudspeakers on power armor

Yet .. Power Armors are Strictly .. forbben (sp?) from being used by Mages ..

Let alone casting Magic while in PA's .. which would incure such a penalty to the point that it would be useless to put on a PA and then start casting magic ..

Palladium's magic system is just simply thee most messed up in all the gaming industry right now ..

[Damian Magecraft]

Under the Ocean magic Intro it also discusses the option of casting spells sans the spoken word but it takes double the casting time.

[flatline]

Under the Ocean magic Intro it also discusses the option of casting spells sans the spoken word but it takes double the casting time.

That's what I remembered from previous conversations on the topic, but I don't have the book, so couldn't be sure.

If there's precedent that mages can cast without speaking, then the words themselves have no power and serve only to help the caster focus his mind.

Thanks!

--flatline

[Damian Magecraft]

actually the words do have power (thats why they are called power words)
Note: for those who never bothered to look at the actual power words...
They are the names of the great old ones...
(gives a little credence to the theory magic comes form the OOs dont it?)

Also it still requires the Mage to recite the spell repetitively in his/her head...

[flatline]

actually the words do have power (thats why they are called power words)
Note: for those who never bothered to look at the actual power words...
They are the names of the great old ones...
(gives a little credence to the theory magic comes form the OOs dont it?)

Also it still requires the Mage to recite the spell repetitively in his/her head...

There were what, 12 great old ones?

If all spells are made out of combinations of their names, then researching new spells would be a breeze. Just try every 2 word combination, 3 word combinations, etc.

I seem to recall that a spell is different in every language. Unless the great old ones' names translate into a language and still keep their power, I have trouble reconciling these ideas.

--flatline

[kaid]

Most of the underwater people have ways of "speaking" when underwater so cast normally. I believe in ocean magic there is a spell thats like a air bubble around your head which could be used for more normal casters. Also I would imagine if you have some kind of breathing helmet you could cast normally. It only matters that you are saying them out loud not really if anybody else can hear you doing it.

[Damian Magecraft]

actually the words do have power (thats why they are called power words)
Note: for those who never bothered to look at the actual power words...
They are the names of the great old ones...
(gives a little credence to the theory magic comes form the OOs dont it?)

Also it still requires the Mage to recite the spell repetitively in his/her head...

There were what, 12 great old ones?

If all spells are made out of combinations of their names, then researching new spells would be a breeze. Just try every 2 word combination, 3 word combinations, etc.

I seem to recall that a spell is different in every language. Unless the great old ones' names translate into a language and still keep their power, I have trouble reconciling these ideas.

--flatline

Its not just saying the words Its the tonal inflections, emphasis, etc...
Think of it terms of learning Mandarin... one symbol could mean literally dozens of words dependant on context and tonal inflection...
one slip in tone and "Hello, it is a pleasure to meet you" could end up becoming a very insulting phrase involving anatomical and ancestral improprieties. (I speak from personal experience on that one...)

[flatline]

actually the words do have power (thats why they are called power words)
Note: for those who never bothered to look at the actual power words...
They are the names of the great old ones...
(gives a little credence to the theory magic comes form the OOs dont it?)

Also it still requires the Mage to recite the spell repetitively in his/her head...

There were what, 12 great old ones?

If all spells are made out of combinations of their names, then researching new spells would be a breeze. Just try every 2 word combination, 3 word combinations, etc.

I seem to recall that a spell is different in every language. Unless the great old ones' names translate into a language and still keep their power, I have trouble reconciling these ideas.

--flatline

Its not just saying the words Its the tonal inflections, emphasis, etc...
Think of it terms of learning Mandarin... one symbol could mean literally dozens of words dependant on context and tonal inflection...
one slip in tone and "Hello, it is a pleasure to meet you" could end up becoming a very insulting phrase involving anatomical and ancestral improprieties. (I speak from personal experience on that one...)

So if you can learn a spell from a scroll, how do you pick such intricacies as inflection, pitch, emphasis, etc?

--flatline

[Akashic Soldier]

So if you can learn a spell from a scroll, how do you pick such intricacies as inflection, pitch, emphasis, etc?

--flatline

Because instead of Apos it would be written Apös', for example.

[Killer Cyborg]

If there's precedent that mages can cast without speaking, then the words themselves have no power and serve only to help the caster focus his mind.

I'd assume that casting spells without vocalization would involve thinking the words, so I'm not sure your assumption is accurate.

But the important point, I think, is that the words need not necessarily be spoken aloud in order for the spell to be cast.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

actually the words do have power (thats why they are called power words)
Note: for those who never bothered to look at the actual power words...
They are the names of the great old ones...
(gives a little credence to the theory magic comes form the OOs dont it?)

Also it still requires the Mage to recite the spell repetitively in his/her head...

The power words in the PFRPG are not just the names of Old Ones. Many are, but not all.

There is also no indication that Invocational magic in Rifts actually uses the power words from Palladium Fantasy.

~ Josh

[Pepsi Jedi]

Under the Ocean magic Intro it also discusses the option of casting spells sans the spoken word but it takes double the casting time.

That's what I remembered from previous conversations on the topic, but I don't have the book, so couldn't be sure.

If there's precedent that mages can cast without speaking, then the words themselves have no power and serve only to help the caster focus his mind.

Thanks!

--flatline

1) noone's fooled. You're trying to find away around the use of spoken word to give your little made up OOC umber powers.

2) that's not what it says. It says Characters who CANNOT speak aloud can concentrate very deeply, saying the incantation in their mind, but can only cast one spell per round and it counts 3 extra actions. The spoken word is really a means of focus and delivery, the magic energy is present in the spell caster, no matter the environment.

I.E. The PPE is in you, it's the words that give it shape and form and delivery.

And it's not 'oh I don't feel like talkin' so I'll just do it in my head' it's a case of being under water and drowning if you try speaking it aloud. Note it says "Characters who CANNOT speak aloud" not "Characters who CHOOSE not to speak aloud" And it reduces it to one per melee, period, and they have to chant it in their head and it takes up 3 melee actions on top of that.

[Damian Magecraft]

Under the Ocean magic Intro it also discusses the option of casting spells sans the spoken word but it takes double the casting time.

That's what I remembered from previous conversations on the topic, but I don't have the book, so couldn't be sure.

If there's precedent that mages can cast without speaking, then the words themselves have no power and serve only to help the caster focus his mind.

Thanks!

--flatline

1) noone's fooled. You're trying to find away around the use of spoken word to give your little made up OOC umber powers.

2) that's not what it says. It says Characters who CANNOT speak aloud can concentrate very deeply, saying the incantation in their mind, but can only cast one spell per round and it counts 3 extra actions. The spoken word is really a means of focus and delivery, the magic energy is present in the spell caster, no matter the environment.

I.E. The PPE is in you, it's the words that give it shape and form and delivery.

And it's not 'oh I don't feel like talkin' so I'll just do it in my head' it's a case of being under water and drowning if you try speaking it aloud. Note it says "Characters who CANNOT speak aloud" not "Characters who CHOOSE not to speak aloud" And it reduces it to one per melee, period, and they have to chant it in their head and it takes up 3 melee actions on top of that.

granted but that book has yet to be updated to RUE standards.
So the One spell per melee is based upon the old RMB rules of only 2 spells per melee...
Doubling the casting time would be the logical extrapolation for RUE updating.

[Nightmask]

I think some people really need to lay off the insulting insinuations and simply respond to the actual post or simply not post at all. Whether or not it's possible to cast spells without the spoken word is a completely valid question for someone to ask, and somewhere in the Coalition War Campaign or Siege of Tolkeen books there is material regarding mages and means of hampering their spell-casting so there should be some commentary on how effective a mage is when denied the ability to speak (or in the case of a mute mage can one even be a mage and mute).

[Pepsi Jedi]

Under the Ocean magic Intro it also discusses the option of casting spells sans the spoken word but it takes double the casting time.

That's what I remembered from previous conversations on the topic, but I don't have the book, so couldn't be sure.

If there's precedent that mages can cast without speaking, then the words themselves have no power and serve only to help the caster focus his mind.

Thanks!

--flatline

1) noone's fooled. You're trying to find away around the use of spoken word to give your little made up OOC umber powers.

2) that's not what it says. It says Characters who CANNOT speak aloud can concentrate very deeply, saying the incantation in their mind, but can only cast one spell per round and it counts 3 extra actions. The spoken word is really a means of focus and delivery, the magic energy is present in the spell caster, no matter the environment.

I.E. The PPE is in you, it's the words that give it shape and form and delivery.

And it's not 'oh I don't feel like talkin' so I'll just do it in my head' it's a case of being under water and drowning if you try speaking it aloud. Note it says "Characters who CANNOT speak aloud" not "Characters who CHOOSE not to speak aloud" And it reduces it to one per melee, period, and they have to chant it in their head and it takes up 3 melee actions on top of that.

granted but that book has yet to be updated to RUE standards.
So the One spell per melee is based upon the old RMB rules of only 2 spells per melee...
Doubling the casting time would be the logical extrapolation for RUE updating.

If we're going to go that way, RUE says you have to speak the spells aloud. So it would overwrite the thing entire wouldn't it?

[jaymz]

Under the Ocean magic Intro it also discusses the option of casting spells sans the spoken word but it takes double the casting time.

That's what I remembered from previous conversations on the topic, but I don't have the book, so couldn't be sure.

If there's precedent that mages can cast without speaking, then the words themselves have no power and serve only to help the caster focus his mind.

Thanks!

--flatline

1) noone's fooled. You're trying to find away around the use of spoken word to give your little made up OOC umber powers.

2) that's not what it says. It says Characters who CANNOT speak aloud can concentrate very deeply, saying the incantation in their mind, but can only cast one spell per round and it counts 3 extra actions. The spoken word is really a means of focus and delivery, the magic energy is present in the spell caster, no matter the environment.

I.E. The PPE is in you, it's the words that give it shape and form and delivery.

And it's not 'oh I don't feel like talkin' so I'll just do it in my head' it's a case of being under water and drowning if you try speaking it aloud. Note it says "Characters who CANNOT speak aloud" not "Characters who CHOOSE not to speak aloud" And it reduces it to one per melee, period, and they have to chant it in their head and it takes up 3 melee actions on top of that.

granted but that book has yet to be updated to RUE standards.
So the One spell per melee is based upon the old RMB rules of only 2 spells per melee...
Doubling the casting time would be the logical extrapolation for RUE updating.

If we're going to go that way, RUE says you have to speak the spells aloud. So it would overwrite the thing entire wouldn't it?

Logically speaking maybe. I believe it did say in RMB you had to speak aloud as well and Underseas just gives an exception to the rule whicc is still usable as written except for the 1 spell per melee would need to be changed to twice as many attacks to cast (thus level 1-5 take 2 attacks instead of one) Hell it is possible this has been corrected in later printings of underseas post RUE but since PB never tells what is changed between printings we will never know.

[Damian Magecraft]

And it's not 'oh I don't feel like talkin' so I'll just do it in my head' it's a case of being under water and drowning if you try speaking it aloud. Note it says "Characters who CANNOT speak aloud" not "Characters who CHOOSE not to speak aloud" And it reduces it to one per melee, period, and they have to chant it in their head and it takes up 3 melee actions on top of that.

granted but that book has yet to be updated to RUE standards.
So the One spell per melee is based upon the old RMB rules of only 2 spells per melee...
Doubling the casting time would be the logical extrapolation for RUE updating.

If we're going to go that way, RUE says you have to speak the spells aloud. So it would overwrite the thing entire wouldn't it?

Logically speaking maybe. I believe it did say in RMB you had to speak aloud as well and Underseas just gives an exception to the rule whicc is still usable as written except for the 1 spell per melee would need to be changed to twice as many attacks to cast (thus level 1-5 take 2 attacks instead of one) Hell it is possible this has been corrected in later printings of underseas post RUE but since PB never tells what is changed between printings we will never know.

Plus if the 2/4/6 thing aint enough for you a good house rule is to double the cost as well... (I would just to slow down the caster a tad but so much as to ham string him).

[Pepsi Jedi]

If we're going to go that way, RUE says you have to speak the spells aloud. So it would overwrite the thing entire wouldn't it?

Logically speaking maybe. I believe it did say in RMB you had to speak aloud as well and Underseas just gives an exception to the rule whicc is still usable as written except for the 1 spell per melee would need to be changed to twice as many attacks to cast (thus level 1-5 take 2 attacks instead of one) Hell it is possible this has been corrected in later printings of underseas post RUE but since PB never tells what is changed between printings we will never know.

Well my point being, if you're going to use the underseas rule, you should use it, if you're going to use RUE, use that.

Don't kinda take the two, and take the best of both worlds. lol right? I mean sure it's house ruling but it's sort of collecting all the versions of a rule and taking the parts you like the best and ignoring the parts you don't.

[jaymz]

If we're going to go that way, RUE says you have to speak the spells aloud. So it would overwrite the thing entire wouldn't it?

Logically speaking maybe. I believe it did say in RMB you had to speak aloud as well and Underseas just gives an exception to the rule whicc is still usable as written except for the 1 spell per melee would need to be changed to twice as many attacks to cast (thus level 1-5 take 2 attacks instead of one) Hell it is possible this has been corrected in later printings of underseas post RUE but since PB never tells what is changed between printings we will never know.

Well my point being, if you're going to use the underseas rule, you should use it, if you're going to use RUE, use that.

Don't kinda take the two, and take the best of both worlds. lol right? I mean sure it's house ruling but it's sort of collecting all the versions of a rule and taking the parts you like the best and ignoring the parts you don't.

Actually if anything what I suggested is bringing the rule i uderseas up to RUE standard.

[flatline]

Under the Ocean magic Intro it also discusses the option of casting spells sans the spoken word but it takes double the casting time.

That's what I remembered from previous conversations on the topic, but I don't have the book, so couldn't be sure.

If there's precedent that mages can cast without speaking, then the words themselves have no power and serve only to help the caster focus his mind.

Thanks!

--flatline

1) noone's fooled. You're trying to find away around the use of spoken word to give your little made up OOC umber powers.

Curious, isn't it? In another thread I'm told that no mage can cast a spell without actually saying the words and so an OCC specific power allowing a particular caster class to do just that is "vastly overpowered". Yet in another thread, that same poster quotes a canon rule that allows ANY mage to cast a spell without words.

Interesting.

2) that's not what it says. It says Characters who CANNOT speak aloud can concentrate very deeply, saying the incantation in their mind, but can only cast one spell per round and it counts 3 extra actions. The spoken word is really a means of focus and delivery, the magic energy is present in the spell caster, no matter the environment.

So not only is it possible to cast a spell without actually saying the words, it can be done without any sort of special training? Imagine a character that actually spends time practicing that ability. Because in a stealth operation, there couldn't possibly be any reason why you might not want to make any noise before you attempt to ambush the full conversion borg with amplified hearing who is standing around the corner from your team...

I.E. The PPE is in you, it's the words that give it shape and form and delivery.

And it's not 'oh I don't feel like talkin' so I'll just do it in my head' it's a case of being under water and drowning if you try speaking it aloud. Note it says "Characters who CANNOT speak aloud" not "Characters who CHOOSE not to speak aloud" And it reduces it to one per melee, period, and they have to chant it in their head and it takes up 3 melee actions on top of that.

So you're suggesting that a mental exercise that requires focus and concentration can be done in a stressful situation like drowning, but is impossible to successfully practice when you're sitting in your study with no distractions around you?

Can you give me an example of a non-trivial mental exercise that gets easier when you're under stress?

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

Under the Ocean magic Intro it also discusses the option of casting spells sans the spoken word but it takes double the casting time.

That's what I remembered from previous conversations on the topic, but I don't have the book, so couldn't be sure.

If there's precedent that mages can cast without speaking, then the words themselves have no power and serve only to help the caster focus his mind.

Thanks!

--flatline

1) noone's fooled. You're trying to find away around the use of spoken word to give your little made up OOC umber powers.

Curious, isn't it? In another thread I'm told that no mage can cast a spell without actually saying the words and so an OCC specific power allowing a particular caster class to do just that is "vastly overpowered". Yet in another thread, that same poster quotes a canon rule that allows ANY mage to cast a spell without words.

Interesting.

No. someone misquoted and I corrected it. Unless your new super powered class works underwater, it doesn't pertain to you. Even then, as has been pointed out. RUE doesn't allow for the cravat. RUE is newer and says spoken word is nessisary.

2) that's not what it says. It says Characters who CANNOT speak aloud can concentrate very deeply, saying the incantation in their mind, but can only cast one spell per round and it counts 3 extra actions. The spoken word is really a means of focus and delivery, the magic energy is present in the spell caster, no matter the environment.

So not only is it possible to cast a spell without actually saying the words, it can be done without any sort of special training? Imagine a character that actually spends time practicing that ability. Because in a stealth operation, there couldn't possibly be any reason why you might not want to make any noise before you attempt to ambush the full conversion borg with amplified hearing who is standing around the corner from your team...

Again, there's a difference between 'Cannot" and "Would rather not", and again RUE superceeds.

I.E. The PPE is in you, it's the words that give it shape and form and delivery.

And it's not 'oh I don't feel like talkin' so I'll just do it in my head' it's a case of being under water and drowning if you try speaking it aloud. Note it says "Characters who CANNOT speak aloud" not "Characters who CHOOSE not to speak aloud" And it reduces it to one per melee, period, and they have to chant it in their head and it takes up 3 melee actions on top of that.

So you're suggesting that a mental exercise that requires focus and concentration can be done in a stressful situation like drowning, but is impossible to successfully practice when you're sitting in your study with no distractions around you?

I'm saying there's a difference between 'Cannot' and 'would rather not'. One is imposed on you in a life or death situation, and an exception to the rule. The other is trying to get around the rule, which goes against the game. That's called cheatin'. At least when we play. If you purposefully try and take something and break long standing rules with it. That's attempting to break the system and is considered cheating.

Can you give me an example of a non-trivial mental exercise that gets easier when you're under stress?

--flatline

Can you give me an example of real world magic?

Oh wait. No it's fictional and made up, given rules by Palladium (( in this instance)) and works like they say it does, not how you want it to. (( unless you house rule, where in *Shrugs* Whatever! Do as you like. ))

[jaymz]

@PJ - Just as an aside, RUE only supercedes if you HAVE RUE. IIRC flatline doesn't actually have RUE thus he woudl be going by RMB et al.

[Pepsi Jedi]

@PJ - Just as an aside, RUE only supercedes if you HAVE RUE. IIRC flatline doesn't actually have RUE thus he woudl be going by RMB et al.

lol no

1) it superceeds if you have it or not. Just because someone doesn't keep up with the rules doesn't make the newest rules invalid.

And 2) I'm pretty sure he recently got RUE as it's come up before. But I could be wrong about that. I seem to remember him saying he recently got the RUE a month or two back (( When he said it, not sure when he got it))

If one doesn't have the newest rules, what 7 years later? That's on them, not me. Had it been a month or two after RUE came out, sure that's one thing, "Hey Pepsi Jedi, the book is new!! Not everyone has it yet! You can't spank them with new rules if they JUST came out! But 7 years later? Yeah.. we use the new rules now.

I haven't looked. Does the BoM allow for slinging spells with out speech? It too is published after the underseas book, 2001 if memory serves.

[jaymz]

@PJ - Just as an aside, RUE only supercedes if you HAVE RUE. IIRC flatline doesn't actually have RUE thus he woudl be going by RMB et al.

lol no

1) it superceeds if you have it or not. Just because someone doesn't keep up with the rules doesn't make the newest rules invalid.

And 2) I'm pretty sure he recently got RUE as it's come up before. But I could be wrong about that. I seem to remember him saying he recently got the RUE a month or two back (( When he said it, not sure when he got it))

If one doesn't have the newest rules, what 7 years later? That's on them, not me. Had it been a month or two after RUE came out, sure that's one thing, "Hey Pepsi Jedi, the book is new!! Not everyone has it yet! You can't spank them with new rules if they JUST came out! But 7 years later? Yeah.. we use the new rules now.

I haven't looked. Does the BoM allow for slinging spells with out speech? It too is published after the underseas book, 2001 if memory serves.

Ah but by your standards would be irrelevant as RUE would supercede that anyway

[Pepsi Jedi]

@PJ - Just as an aside, RUE only supercedes if you HAVE RUE. IIRC flatline doesn't actually have RUE thus he woudl be going by RMB et al.

lol no

1) it superceeds if you have it or not. Just because someone doesn't keep up with the rules doesn't make the newest rules invalid.

And 2) I'm pretty sure he recently got RUE as it's come up before. But I could be wrong about that. I seem to remember him saying he recently got the RUE a month or two back (( When he said it, not sure when he got it))

If one doesn't have the newest rules, what 7 years later? That's on them, not me. Had it been a month or two after RUE came out, sure that's one thing, "Hey Pepsi Jedi, the book is new!! Not everyone has it yet! You can't spank them with new rules if they JUST came out! But 7 years later? Yeah.. we use the new rules now.

I haven't looked. Does the BoM allow for slinging spells with out speech? It too is published after the underseas book, 2001 if memory serves.

Ah but by your standards would be irrelevant as RUE would supercede that anyway

Indeed, but I was asking more to see if not just one but two books addressing magic rules published since the aforementioned world book addressed such, or if both said (( as the RUE does)) That the words must be spoken.

[jaymz]

Now that I have read the rule in question...leave it as is and it is still usable that way.

Essentially costs 3 attacks to cast a single spell. In fact its a bigger penalty now since low lever spells can be cast in 1 attack not "half a melee" as it was previously. But leave it exactly as is and it will work just fine.

Mind you I would apply this to all situation where the mage cannot speak the spoken words at all. This will allow a mage to indeed by stealthy even if takes more time to cast the spell.

[flatline]

I do have RUE and I have mixed feelings about some of the omissions and changes made, but that's another thread.

Underseas has a rule that addresses a specific scenario that is ignored by both RMB and RUE, so while it's easy to say that RUE's rules are intended to replace RMB's rules, it's not so easy to say that RUE's rules are supposed wipe out rules (like this one from Underseas) that address cases ignored by the main books.

I can think of many scenarios where it is advantageous to spend some extra time on a spell in order to cast it silently and there are several spells whose intended purpose is sabotaged if it's obvious that you're casting a spell, so I've always thought there should be rules that address casting spells silently. I've never pressed the issue with any GM since Talisman gave me a workaround for spells that I had the foresight to have ready.

--flatline

[jaymz]

so I've always thought there should be rules that address casting spells silently.

--flatline

I myself would have no issue if you wished to use the rule in underseas for just plain casting silently.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Aren't there mages in Underseas that cast spells without saying the words?

--flatline

as per your question as said... No.

as per what I think you mean.
There is a skill/power that lets a incantation spell caster to cast spells w/o speaking in the UnderSeas book.

However, in RUE it changes rifts magic so any and ALL magic in rifts has to have a verbal component thus the power in US might be effectively recon'ed out of canon.

[Nightmask]

Aren't there mages in Underseas that cast spells without saying the words?

--flatline

as per your question as said... No.

as per what I think you mean.
There is a skill/power that lets a incantation spell caster to cast spells w/o speaking in the UnderSeas book.

However, in RUE it changes rifts magic so any and ALL magic in rifts has to have a verbal component thus the power in US might be effectively recon'ed out of canon.

That doesn't seem to be very believable or make any sense, since as this topic brings up you have undersea spellcasters (for one) who wouldn't be able to cast spells because they wouldn't be able to speak. Sounds like yet another unnecessary restriction on magic users nerfing them so Tech is what rules even though it's a setting all about Earth becoming the second most magical place in the megaverse.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Aren't there mages in Underseas that cast spells without saying the words?

--flatline

as per your question as said... No.

as per what I think you mean.
There is a skill/power that lets a incantation spell caster to cast spells w/o speaking in the UnderSeas book.

However, in RUE it changes rifts magic so any and ALL magic in rifts has to have a verbal component thus the power in US might be effectively recon'ed out of canon.

That doesn't seem to be very believable or make any sense, since as this topic brings up you have undersea spellcasters (for one) who wouldn't be able to cast spells because they wouldn't be able to speak. Sounds like yet another unnecessary restriction on magic users nerfing them so Tech is what rules even though it's a setting all about Earth becoming the second most magical place in the megaverse.

The spell casters in question have the ability in their OOC to speak under water.

[drewkitty ~..~]

@MN, I'm not the one who wrote RUE. And I agree with you about the nerf'ing of magic. But....

Breath w/o air for land dwellers with ocean magic to let them speak underwater.
pheimo bioforms and whales and dolphins can speak underwater as per their normal way of talking.
anphibs can speak underwater in their own lang.
aquatic sentients can speak underwater in their own lang.

Of the above Listed only the land dwellers would have trouble casting magic underwater w/o magical help.

Sound does not just travel through air. It does travel through liquids (i.e.:whale songs) and solids also (i.e.:like listening to a RR rail to hear if a train is coming or an earthquake P-waves.)[Yes, P-waves is an extreme, in (hi)amplitude and (low)frequency, example of sound going through a solid, but that is what they are.]{Sound is nothing but compression waves.}(Is from So.Calif. so we get taught about earthquakes in school as a matter of course.)

-----

The spell casters in question have the ability in their OOC to speak under water.

Which OCC is that? Seeing that I only saw Ocean Mages and Whale singers being talked about. Both of which need to be able to vocalize.

-----------------
There is also one of the magi proficiencies (in a rifter), besides the ability/skill in underseas, that the mage has the ability to cast magic silently.

[jaymz]

There is also one of the magi proficiencies (in a rifter), besides the ability/skill in underseas, that the mage has the ability to cast magic silently.

I believe that was the Space Mage

[Pepsi Jedi]

@MN, I'm not the one who wrote RUE. And I agree with you about the nerf'ing of magic. But....

Breath w/o air for land dwellers with ocean magic to let them speak underwater.
pheimo bioforms and whales and dolphins can speak underwater as per their normal way of talking.
anphibs can speak underwater in their own lang.
aquatic sentients can speak underwater in their own lang.

Of the above Listed only the land dwellers would have trouble casting magic underwater w/o magical help.

Sound does not just travel through air. It does travel through liquids (i.e.:whale songs) and solids also (i.e.:like listening to a RR rail to hear if a train is coming or an earthquake P-waves.)[Yes, P-waves is an extreme, in (hi)amplitude and (low)frequency, example of sound going through a solid, but that is what they are.]{Sound is nothing but compression waves.}(Is from So.Calif. so we get taught about earthquakes in school as a matter of course.)

-----

The spell casters in question have the ability in their OOC to speak under water.

Which OCC is that? Seeing that I only saw Ocean Mages and Whale singers being talked about. Both of which need to be able to vocalize.

-----------------
There is also one of the magi proficiencies (in a rifter), besides the ability/skill in underseas, that the mage has the ability to cast magic silently.

Sea wizard, ocean mage, what ever it's called. One of the OOC abilitys is the ability to speak under water, so they're not affected. They vocalize just fine.

[The Dark Elf]

Dont let overthinking get in the way of having fun!

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is also one of the magi proficiencies (in a rifter), besides the ability/skill in underseas, that the mage has the ability to cast magic silently.

I believe that was the Space Mage

nope....magi proficiencies as in the article "pros an cons of magic; magic proficiencies and magic limitations" Pages 57-63, Rifter 27. the expansion of the magic proficiencies and magic limitations that is found in "Through the Glass Darkly".

[drewkitty ~..~]

Sea wizard, ocean mage, what ever it's called. One of the OOC abilitys is the ability to speak under water, so they're not affected. They vocalize just fine.

Ocean wizard: Starts with the spells Breath w/o air, speak underwater, float underwater,.... (no Class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Sea Druid: Enhanced underwater abilities: Hold breath underwater for 1d4+4 min., survive pressure at depths of 200'+10'/L..... (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Sea Inquisitor: (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Whale Singer: Enhanced underwater abilities: Hold breath underwater for 2d4+4 min., survive pressure at depths of 200'+10'/L..... (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)[note: this info is taken from the OCC not the race stats and abilities of the P-Bioforms nor from normal cetaceans & dolphins.]

These are the only magi in the underseas book. As you can see none of them have a class ability to speak underwater unassisted.

If you are talking about a mage class in Lemura, I can not have the opinion other then "Please sit down with the book and inform us."

[Akashic Soldier]

Sea wizard, ocean mage, what ever it's called. One of the OOC abilitys is the ability to speak under water, so they're not affected. They vocalize just fine.

Ocean wizard: Starts with the spells Breath w/o air, speak underwater, float underwater,.... (no Class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Sea Druid: Enhanced underwater abilities: Hold breath underwater for 1d4+4 min., survive pressure at depths of 200'+10'/L..... (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Sea Inquisitor: (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Whale Singer: Enhanced underwater abilities: Hold breath underwater for 2d4+4 min., survive pressure at depths of 200'+10'/L..... (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)[note: this info is taken from the OCC not the race stats and abilities of the P-Bioforms nor from normal cetaceans & dolphins.]

These are the only magi in the underseas book. As you can see none of them have a class ability to speak underwater unassisted.

If you are talking about a mage class in Lemura, I can not have the opinion other then "Please sit down with the book and inform us."

Sea Inquisitor

I know this is trivial but when it says "5% are mystics" its talking about determining their psionic progression. They do not gain access to spells as a mystic. Just like if you select Burster or Psi-Stalker you wouldnt gain their O.C.C. abilities you ONLY gain their psionic ability progression. Just saying.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Sea Inquisitor

I know this is trivial but when it says "5% are mystics" its talking about determining their psionic progression. They do not gain access to spells as a mystic. Just like if you select Burster or Psi-Stalker you wouldn't gain their O.C.C. abilities you ONLY gain their psionic ability progression. Just saying.

......?????
I have the underseas book in front of me and I do not see in the book what you are said has any reference to what this topic is about.

I see the part where is says that 10% of the psi's called and become IS's are Mind Melters, mind bleeders,or mystics. But why mention that?

[Pepsi Jedi]

Sea wizard, ocean mage, what ever it's called. One of the OOC abilitys is the ability to speak under water, so they're not affected. They vocalize just fine.

Ocean wizard: Starts with the spells Breath w/o air, speak underwater, float underwater,.... (no Class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Sea Druid: Enhanced underwater abilities: Hold breath underwater for 1d4+4 min., survive pressure at depths of 200'+10'/L..... (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Sea Inquisitor: (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Whale Singer: Enhanced underwater abilities: Hold breath underwater for 2d4+4 min., survive pressure at depths of 200'+10'/L..... (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)[note: this info is taken from the OCC not the race stats and abilities of the P-Bioforms nor from normal cetaceans & dolphins.]

These are the only magi in the underseas book. As you can see none of them have a class ability to speak underwater unassisted.

If you are talking about a mage class in Lemura, I can not have the opinion other then "Please sit down with the book and inform us."

Points up to Icean wizard* "Starts with the spells Breath with out air, SPEAK UNDER WATER...."

"SPEAK UNDER WATER"? Yet has no ability to speak under water?

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Sea wizard, ocean mage, what ever it's called. One of the OOC abilitys is the ability to speak under water, so they're not affected. They vocalize just fine.

Ocean wizard: Starts with the spells Breath w/o air, speak underwater, float underwater,.... (no Class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Sea Druid: Enhanced underwater abilities: Hold breath underwater for 1d4+4 min., survive pressure at depths of 200'+10'/L..... (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Sea Inquisitor: (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Whale Singer: Enhanced underwater abilities: Hold breath underwater for 2d4+4 min., survive pressure at depths of 200'+10'/L..... (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)[note: this info is taken from the OCC not the race stats and abilities of the P-Bioforms nor from normal cetaceans & dolphins.]

These are the only magi in the underseas book. As you can see none of them have a class ability to speak underwater unassisted.

If you are talking about a mage class in Lemura, I can not have the opinion other then "Please sit down with the book and inform us."

Points up to Icean wizard* "Starts with the spells Breath with out air, SPEAK UNDER WATER...."

"SPEAK UNDER WATER"? Yet has no ability to speak under water?

I think his point is that it's a spell, and not an actual O.C.C. ability.

~ Josh

[drewkitty ~..~]

Sea wizard, ocean mage, what ever it's called. One of the OOC abilitys is the ability to speak under water, so they're not affected. They vocalize just fine.

Ocean wizard: Starts with the spells Breath w/o air, speak underwater, float underwater,.... (no Class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Sea Druid: Enhanced underwater abilities: Hold breath underwater for 1d4+4 min., survive pressure at depths of 200'+10'/L..... (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Sea Inquisitor: (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)
Whale Singer: Enhanced underwater abilities: Hold breath underwater for 2d4+4 min., survive pressure at depths of 200'+10'/L..... (no class ability/power to speak underwater.)[note: this info is taken from the OCC not the race stats and abilities of the P-Bioforms nor from normal cetaceans & dolphins.]

These are the only magi in the underseas book. As you can see none of them have a class ability to speak underwater unassisted.

If you are talking about a mage class in Lemura, I can not have the opinion other then "Please sit down with the book and inform us."

Points up to Icean wizard* "Starts with the spells Breath with out air, SPEAK UNDER WATER...."

"SPEAK UNDER WATER"? Yet has no ability to speak under water?

I think his point is that it's a spell, and not an actual O.C.C. ability.

~ Josh

Josh is correct.

[Akashic Soldier]

I see the part where is says that 10% of the psi's called and become IS's are Mind Melters, mind bleeders,or mystics. But why mention that?

Because it was a common misunderstanding.