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Ok. Reading through the Shemerrian Nation book again. Some cool ideas. I really like the Shemerrian Berserker. Now I know some are going to poo poo this argument as the BWW is old (from back in the orginal SB1) and seems to be the weaker of the two.

Here is the Scenario:

1. The Shemerrian Berserker is of the variety with no armor (so only 250 MDC to the main body). She is armed with a Vibro-Spear (3D6+3 MD damage). Per the books 10 attacks/melee.

2. The Altara is armored with her body armor (30 MDC), an Armor of Ithan sheild (100 MDC), and has 100 physical SDC and 50 Hit Points. She is armed with a Kittani Plasma Sword, and a Net Gun. Per the books 8 attacks/melee. Her physical stats are on the high end for an Altara (PS 28, PP 27, PE 26, and a Speed of 48 (with the running skill)). She is 6th level.

3. The Altara is stranded away from her Slaver so she is alone. The Shemerrian is on a lone hunt. This is a pure one on one battle.

4. The Altara gets the drop and win initiative.

Who wins?

Have fun.

No one wants to comment on this? i thought it was a pretty cool matchup...

Hystrix wrote:No one wants to comment on this? i thought it was a pretty cool matchup...

I've been meaning to but figured my thoughts on the matter would suffer from extreme bias.

Joking aside, I see it as a pretty even match up. The Altara Warrior Woman seems to have a little more versatility on her side - with the plasma sword allowing for ranged attacks which the Berserker would not have access to. OTOH, the Berserker has speed on her.. its side: 120 miles per hour worth of speed. We could also factor in that the Berserker is not going to tire - but I doubt the fight will last that long for that to matter.

Without factoring in her Hand to Hand Skill (or her W.P.s for that matter), the Altara has +8 to strike, parry, and dodge - compared to the Shemarrian's +10. That's not much of a difference, so the Altara's level really comes into account here. The higher the Altara's level the higher her chance of victory is. At a high enough level her victory is all but assured.

Of course, this all relies on luck and chance: or the roll of the die.

So, my answer would be: it depends who is playing the characters.

~ Josh

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:

Hystrix wrote:No one wants to comment on this? i thought it was a pretty cool matchup...

I've been meaning to but figured my thoughts on the matter would suffer from extreme bias.

Joking aside, I see it as a pretty even match up. The Altara Warrior Woman seems to have a little more versatility on her side - with the plasma sword allowing for ranged attacks which the Berserker would not have access to. OTOH, the Berserker has speed on her.. its side: 120 miles per hour worth of speed. We could also factor in that the Berserker is not going to tire - but I doubt the fight will last that long for that to matter.

Without factoring in her Hand to Hand Skill (or her W.P.s for that matter), the Altara has +8 to strike, parry, and dodge - compared to the Shemarrian's +10. That's not much of a difference, so the Altara's level really comes into account here. The higher the Altara's level the higher her chance of victory is. At a high enough level her victory is all but assured.

Of course, this all relies on luck and chance: or the roll of the die.

So, my answer would be: it depends who is playing the characters.

~ Josh

Thanks for the input. I hadn't considered level of experience since the Berserkers dosn't aplly/ or dosn't matter...

I guess the Altara is 6th level for argument sake...

Hystrix wrote:Thanks for the input. I hadn't considered level of experience since the Berserkers dosn't aplly/ or dosn't matter...

I guess the Altara is 6th level for argument sake...

No problem.

At 6th level? The chance of victory, all things considered, is about even. If we're using strike, parry, and dodge as the main metric here (and with primarily melee combat it's a good metric) then the Altara has a very slight advantage. Seems too close to call.

The Altara has the advantage of ranged combat on her side... the Shemarrian however can close any distance gap FAST.

Within close range the Shemarrian has the advantage of the reach of her spear, though the Altara is more agile (all bonuses taken into account), making it more likely for the Altara to block the Berserker's attacks than for the Berserker's to block her's.

The Shemarrian has a bit more durability on her side. If she can disarm the Altara the fight is hers (though it will be close). So yeah, possibly, it could come down to that - who can disarm who first.

Perhaps I'm being biased, but I'm going to go with the Berserker - though it would be close (something like winning 3 out of 5 times). The tipping point being the Berserker's speed. A level or two higher and the Altara is the more likely victor.

~ Josh

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:

Hystrix wrote:Thanks for the input. I hadn't considered level of experience since the Berserkers dosn't aplly/ or dosn't matter...

I guess the Altara is 6th level for argument sake...

No problem.

At 6th level? The chance of victory, all things considered, is about even. If we're using strike, parry, and dodge as the main metric here (and with primarily melee combat it's a good metric) then the Altara has a very slight advantage. Seems to close to call.

The Altara has the advantage of ranged combat on her side... the Shemarrian however can close any distance gap FAST.

Within close range the Shemarrian has the advantage of the reach of her spear, though the Altara is more agile (all bonuses taken into account), making it more likely for the Altara to block the Berserker's attacks than for the Berserker's to block her's.

The Shemarrian has a bit more durability on her side. If she can disarm the Altara the fight is hers (though it will be close). So yeah, possibly, it could come down to that - who can disarm who first.

Perhaps I'm being biased, but I'm going to go with the Berserker - though it would be close (something like winning 3 out of 5 times). The tipping point being the Berserker's speed. A level or two higher and the Altara is the more likely victor.

~ Josh

That's cool. My take is that i wanted to see how close it was. I think it would be a sweet battle to simulate. Heck, how cool would it be to see that in the Rifts Movie?

I love the Shemerrian Berserker. I think it may be one of the coolest classes of Archie Robot out there. It's almoast..human... or atleast mortal, compared to other archie bots, but it's still super tough.

OTOH, I've always felt the Altara warrior Women are the most underestimated Minions of Splugorth, and I love the underdog.

I have to agree, I think the Berserker wins most times, but i like the Altara vs the Berserker more than many other RCCs/OCCs. Plus they should be mortal enemies. Now all we need is Archie to crank out about a million Berserkers, and we have a freakin' war! Nice.

imo, the net gun would give the fight to the BWW.

also, the BWW actually has more total MDC (300 from the amulet, 30 from body armor).

but the big difference is that once the net gun hits, that's the end of the fight.

I'll go with the Blind Warrior Woman for the ranged attacks(as Shark Force points out, a Net Gun CAN stop a 120 MPH charge).
This, I should add, may lead me to juice up the Free Shemarrian Nationals to compensate("The Dark One hamstrung us!" "No, you Berserkers just need to appreciate ranged weaponry more!" "You're sort of missing the point of our profession." "The BWWs aren't missing you when you're stuck like a goose frozen to the surface of a lake..." "Ha, bloody, hah....")

It looks even enough. Although I feel that if the Berzerker can close to melee range the fight would go to her...it. I guess it all comes down to if the first shot with the net gun is successful or not.

I'm going to side with the She-Mary-Anne.

TheOttoman wrote:Is Jello involved?

No, nor Vaseline, chocolate sauce, baby oil, liquid latex, caramel pudding, or whipped cream.
Possibly mud, ichor, maybe broken concrete, depending on where the fight is taking place.

is a stripper pole going to be used

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:is a stripper pole going to be used

"Did he REALLY ask those two if a stripper pole was going to be used...?"
(Wince) "Evidentally so...I'm not sure that qualifies exactly as a 'stripper pole', but it's a pole..."
(Cringe)"Used like THAT, I think it qualifies as a 'probe'."
"Ohhhbboooyyy...well, at least those two have bridged the differences between species, indeed orders of life, and come to common understanding.."
"They're sharing ideas on how to best punish their common target.."
"But still competitive..they're going for decibel level."
"Should we move a little farther back?"
"Let's."

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:is a stripper pole going to be used

"Did he REALLY ask those two if a stripper pole was going to be used...?"
(Wince) "Evidentally so...I'm not sure that qualifies exactly as a 'stripper pole', but it's a pole..."
(Cringe)"Used like THAT, I think it qualifies as a 'probe'."
"Ohhhbboooyyy...well, at least those two have bridged the differences between species, indeed orders of life, and come to common understanding.."
"They're sharing ideas on how to best punish their common target.."
"But still competitive..they're going for decibel level."
"Should we move a little farther back?"
"Let's."

i only because of dancing skill as some see as a art form

taalismn wrote:I'll go with the Blind Warrior Woman for the ranged attacks(as Shark Force points out, a Net Gun CAN stop a 120 MPH charge).

If it hits. Magic Net can be dodged, and with +10 a Shemarrian Berserker has a good chance of doing so.

~ Josh

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:is a stripper pole going to be used

"Did he REALLY ask those two if a stripper pole was going to be used...?"
(Wince) "Evidentally so...I'm not sure that qualifies exactly as a 'stripper pole', but it's a pole..."
(Cringe)"Used like THAT, I think it qualifies as a 'probe'."
"Ohhhbboooyyy...well, at least those two have bridged the differences between species, indeed orders of life, and come to common understanding.."
"They're sharing ideas on how to best punish their common target.."
"But still competitive..they're going for decibel level."
"Should we move a little farther back?"
"Let's."

i only because of dancing skill as some see as a art form

Oh god....now you got me thinking of a war party of Shemarrians and a slaver gang of Minions doing a dance-off in the ruins of Madhaven.
"You! Have! Been! Served!"

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:is a stripper pole going to be used

"Did he REALLY ask those two if a stripper pole was going to be used...?"
(Wince) "Evidentally so...I'm not sure that qualifies exactly as a 'stripper pole', but it's a pole..."
(Cringe)"Used like THAT, I think it qualifies as a 'probe'."
"Ohhhbboooyyy...well, at least those two have bridged the differences between species, indeed orders of life, and come to common understanding.."
"They're sharing ideas on how to best punish their common target.."
"But still competitive..they're going for decibel level."
"Should we move a little farther back?"
"Let's."

i only because of dancing skill as some see as a art form

Oh god....now you got me thinking of a war party of Shemarrians and a slaver gang of Minions doing a dance-off in the ruins of Madhaven.
"You! Have! Been! Served!"

off to Sapphire Gentlemen's Club or perhaps of this form of combat is too much for you

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:[
off to Sapphire Gentlemen's Club or perhaps of this form of combat is too much for you

Martial Dance is familiar to me; I had a friend kick himself in the head while practicing it.
That having been said, there are many more forms of dance-related combat I'd be safer suggesting to two of the meanest, nastiest, most notorious female warrior classes on the post-Rifts East Coast than 'it involves a striper pole'.

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:[
off to Sapphire Gentlemen's Club or perhaps of this form of combat is too much for you

Martial Dance is familiar to me; I had a friend kick himself in the head while practicing it.
That having been said, there are many more forms of dance-related combat I'd be safer suggesting to two of the meanest, nastiest, most notorious female warrior classes on the post-Rifts East Coast than 'it involves a striper pole'.

There's only one Shemarrian I'd say who'd actually use said "stripper pole" but, well... she's undergoing psychtronic-matrix therapy (and besides, she's NOT a berserker caste anyhoo)

Tylax:"No wait! I can change my mind about up-grading to warchief can't I?"

Goodbones:"... ... ...No." *shuts upgrade nanoforge pod on protests.*
"That one always worries me..."

TheOttoman wrote:

taalismn wrote:

TheOttoman wrote:Is Jello involved?

No, nor Vaseline, chocolate sauce, baby oil, liquid latex, caramel pudding, or whipped cream.
Possibly mud, ichor, maybe broken concrete, depending on where the fight is taking place.

If it's mud or ichor, than it's the Altara every day of the week.

Oh my goodness, that is so NOT the direction I was going woith this pole...er...poll at all!

Hystrix wrote:

TheOttoman wrote:

taalismn wrote:

TheOttoman wrote:Is Jello involved?

No, nor Vaseline, chocolate sauce, baby oil, liquid latex, caramel pudding, or whipped cream.
Possibly mud, ichor, maybe broken concrete, depending on where the fight is taking place.

If it's mud or ichor, than it's the Altara every day of the week.

Oh my goodness, that is so NOT the direction I was going woith this pole...er...poll at all!

i sure you wanted to be clean and just about combat , well its still about combat, well kinda, not like any one said wet t-shirt contest

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:[
i sure you wanted to be clean and just about combat , well its still about combat, well kinda, not like any one said wet t-shirt contest

And here I was thinking you were going to be able to talk your way out of being slugged with either robotic or magically-enhanced strength....

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:[
i sure you wanted to be clean and just about combat , well its still about combat, well kinda, not like any one said wet t-shirt contest

And here I was thinking you were going to be able to talk your way out of being slugged with either robotic or magically-enhanced strength....

if i going to get slugged might as well be worth it

Maybe I should have made this a fatal four way: Shemerrian vs Altara vs Female Psi-Stalker vs Female uh... Simvan?

Hystrix wrote:Maybe I should have made this a fatal four way: Shemerrian vs Altara vs Female Psi-Stalker vs Female uh... Simvan?

just think about all the comments i might say

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Hystrix wrote:Maybe I should have made this a fatal four way: Shemerrian vs Altara vs Female Psi-Stalker vs Female uh... Simvan?

just think about all the comments i might say

I'll lay out the plastic sheeting and put on a rain poncho(blood stains are SO hard to get out).

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Hystrix wrote:Maybe I should have made this a fatal four way: Shemerrian vs Altara vs Female Psi-Stalker vs Female uh... Simvan?

just think about all the comments i might say

I'll lay out the plastic sheeting and put on a rain poncho(blood stains are SO hard to get out).

i regret nothing

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Hystrix wrote:Maybe I should have made this a fatal four way: Shemerrian vs Altara vs Female Psi-Stalker vs Female uh... Simvan?

just think about all the comments i might say

I'll lay out the plastic sheeting and put on a rain poncho(blood stains are SO hard to get out).

i regret nothing

Just don't let them know you regenerate...because then you WILL have something to regret.

I voted for the zerker ..

Its faster .. and stronger .. and honestly I think the machine will simply attempt to overwhelm the BWW .. but the BWW will take a long time to overcome her saves .. and lvl .. I also agree tho that the net gun can be dodged.

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

taalismn wrote:

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Hystrix wrote:Maybe I should have made this a fatal four way: Shemerrian vs Altara vs Female Psi-Stalker vs Female uh... Simvan?

just think about all the comments i might say

I'll lay out the plastic sheeting and put on a rain poncho(blood stains are SO hard to get out).

i regret nothing

Just don't let them know you regenerate...because then you WILL have something to regret.

i'm sure i can think a couple more each time and wear them out , so i win

Lenwen wrote:I voted for the zerker ..

Its faster .. and stronger .. and honestly I think the machine will simply attempt to overwhelm the BWW .. but the BWW will take a long time to overcome her saves .. and lvl .. I also agree tho that the net gun can be dodged.

Yeah, I think I should have made the Altara 8th level.

I'm very conflicted on this one. I like both. As I've said before they are almoast like natural enemies. As if Archie, and Lord Splynncryth sat down, and created both to fight each other... figuratively of course...

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

taalismn wrote:[Just don't let them know you regenerate...because then you WILL have something to regret.

i'm sure i can think a couple more each time and wear them out , so i win

You haven't read Neon Genesis Evangelion: Nobody Dies, have you?
When somebody discovers that you can regenerate, it's NOT a good thing, especially if your ocular virginity comes up as part of the discussion.
"Hey, why are you rolling that d100?"
"Yardage of the blood spatter."

Hystrix wrote:Maybe I should have made this a fatal four way: Shemerrian vs Altara vs Female Psi-Stalker vs Female uh... Simvan?

The fourth should be a Staphra (Splynn Dimensional Market), IMHO.

Hystrix wrote:Yeah, I think I should have made the Altara 8th level.

At eighth level I'd say the Altara is the more likely winner.

~ Josh

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:

Hystrix wrote:Maybe I should have made this a fatal four way: Shemerrian vs Altara vs Female Psi-Stalker vs Female uh... Simvan?

The fourth should be a Staphra (Splynn Dimensional Market), IMHO.

True. Hadn't thought of them. But a Staphra wouldn't fight an Altara under normal cercumstances as they are both working for the Splugorth. Maybe a two on two battle?

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:

Hystrix wrote:Yeah, I think I should have made the Altara 8th level.

At eighth level I'd say the Altara is the more likely winner.

~ Josh

Yeah. Again I think it comes down to range, and who wins initiative. I think the Altara has a much better chance now than I originaly did...

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:

Hystrix wrote:Maybe I should have made this a fatal four way: Shemerrian vs Altara vs Female Psi-Stalker vs Female uh... Simvan?

just think about all the comments i might say

Like... is it beastiality with the Simvan thrown in there?

I think the Sheserker could tire the Alta out if the Sheserker knew about the Alta first and just tired her out by keeping her up for several days, never engaging just coming close enough to cause the Alta to sense her... uh it.

As the poll was writen, the Altara Blind Warrior Women, would win.

If it was a Altara Blind Warrior Woman, then the most a Altara Blind Warrior Woman could wish for, would be to escape.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:As the poll was writen, the Altara Blind Warrior Women, would win.

If it was a Altara Blind Warrior Woman, then the most a Altara Blind Warrior Woman could wish for, would be to escape.

The poll was misspelled. It is now corrected.

However, if you read the rest of the original post, it is clear that there is only one Altara...

Hystrix wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:As the poll was written, the Altara Blind Warrior Women, would win.

If it was a Altara Blind Warrior Woman, then the most a Altara Blind Warrior Woman could wish for, would be to escape.

The poll was misspelled. It is now corrected.

However, if you read the rest of the original post, it is clear that there is only one Altara...

Note I answered the question both ways.

Quantity has a quality all its own.
Yeah, if the BWW had the Berserker surrounded....