Beyond the Supernatural vs Call of Cthuhu

[King Newt]

I have run 2 games of BTS so far, but in our group we have two people who run Cthuhu. The group prefer Cthuhu rather than BTS. I know my group enjoys when I run BTS, because the last time I ran, we went over our curfew. (we stop gaming at midnight) I was just wondering if anyone else has the same problems I do. I prefer BTS, but am being out voted for someone else running Cthuhu.

[mrloucifer]

This is a new one on me. While Ive played CoC only a few times, and while I dig the 30's nostalgia, it just doesn't compare to BTS. If anything, it could be a case of a desire for lazy game playing on the groups parts as everything is so hopeless that the only real reward for your jobs well done is a eventually either a permanent vacation in the nut house or the cemetery.

[Nightmask]

I can't see the appeal to Cthulu either, as a game with such a hopeless stance just seems of no enjoyment value. Why go through game after game when you're NEVER going to achieve anything and eventually your PC will end up dead or hopelessly insane? I'd rather play something where my characters get to actually make a difference and feel like things have a chance.

[auyl]

I tend to agree that BTS is better, even just in game play. I bought the CoC book and was rather disappointed with the whole insanity thing. Even if you pass an insanity check most (not all) creatures still give you insanity anyway making you get a permanent insanity once you accumulate five points. BTS and all Palladium products have insanity as well but it isn't as predominant. Game play and the story is more important which is what I enjoy more than risking going insane every game session.

[Holister]

Hi

I have been where you are, but I found a happy medium allowing me to combine elements of the two games. Fortunately my players are not as "close minded" about trying different things and it worked out great. As for the insanity thing, neither set of rules ever appealed to us so I worked out out own "house rules" version of sanity.

You simply start off with a number of sanity points equal to your M.E. score. Every time the character took what we referred to as "sanity damage" (anywhere between 1 to 4 points) it was deducted from your sanity points. When they reached zero, then the character was declared legally insane (for us it was usually catatonic shock and removal of the character from gameplay).

Fortunately Palladium rules allow for cures for insanity so sanity points were able to be recovered under the right circumstances and their was also a Sanity savings throw allowed for each sanity attack made against the character.

One CoC/BtS cross over we did started in 1920's with the decendants of some of PCs in use now. We played several games involving the PC's various family members through the years until we got to the current PCs here in 2011.

[Lord Z]

Now that most of Lovecraft's original materials are in the public domain, there are plenty of variations of Cthulhu using different rulesets. Before the public domain change, there were two verions I knew of, classic CoC and D20 CoC. Now we have Trail of Cthulhu and Cthulhutech. Heck, I even started developing my own version for the C.O.R.E. open source RPG project. I have run two games using my Madness of Cthulhu rules for C.O.R.E. It could be argued that BtS was itself a variation of CoC what with the tentacled trans-dimensional alien intelligences.

Among this mass of games, we could arrange them in degrees of power that the PCs have to resolve their problems without lots of deus ex machina help from the GM. From most hopeless PCs to most empowered PCs, I think the games would be ranked as thus...
Classic CoC
D20 CoC
Trail of C
BtS
Chtulhutech

CoC is a greater roleplaying challenge if run as intended. The challenge of a BtS adventure is very scaleable up or down.

If relying heavily upon canon materials, CoC has a much more established setting and more resources. I can see reasons for the preference. The very fact that BtS is not achored in a specific mythos would be equally appealing to other GMs. I haved played enough of all these games to give a clear answer.

[slade the sniper]

Delta Green!!!

On the plus side, you can have your BtS characters run into some DG characters and see how that works out.

The BtS characters are far more powerful and knowledgeable in the occult, but the DG characters will usually be able to outshoot them, as well as having A LOT more resources to call on.

Try it out, you might find that there is no reason to have any conflict between them.

Also, you could have Cthulhu and other Old Ones show up and start their plots against the admittedly weaker BtS baddies.

-STS

[Shawn Merrow]

I like both games myself. I suggest you point out the differences each game brings to the supernatural setting. In the case of BtS the PC are stronger and dealing with more local threats then sanity destroying forces from beyond. Try to sell the players on what you love about BtS and what you hope to do with your game. If that does not work then enjoy CoC and try again when its your turn to pick. On the bright side at least you still get to game.

[mrloucifer]

That's very true, at the minimum you've still got a supernatural horror game to play and enjoy.

[Nemo235]

I am a fan of both games.
Where Beyond the Supernatural is pretty much a blank slate for the GM to fill in, default Call of Cthulhu has a pretty specific goal.
The system tries to emulate the stories of H.P. Lovecraft and others.
And the stories are rather bleak and hopeless. They don't fit the typical heroic mold.
They normally have a shocking, mind shattering twist at the end.

Not everyone enjoys them, some have to be in the right mood and others can't get enough.
Just like different types of movies.

Of course you can use Beyond to run this type of game, but Call of Cthulhu focuses on it.

[Holister]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30919952@N08/5705746866/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30919952@N08/5705180495/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30919952@N08/5705180605/in/photostream

[Lord Z]

These posters point out an interesting phenomena to me. Consider Cthulhu as a character. I can go to most any fan convention (sci-fi, horror, comic books, whatever) and purchase a plush cthulhu doll. He appeared in two episodes of South Park last season. I see joke posters and bumper stickers like Cthulhu for President about ten times as often as a serious reference to the Mythos or any of Lovecraft's stories. The younger players in my group can't get into Call of Cthulhu because their overwhelming experience with the mythos-sub-genre has been in cutesy and-or joke form. They don't get that it was ever scary, even after I showed them the CoC movie by the HPL Society. The big guy has become as parody of himself.

What science and technology and socery and human ingenuity could not challenge -- the fallen elder god -- has been defeated and transformed by apathy.

[Nemo235]

I think it's comparable to the Universal monsters now.
Maybe it's a cycle fictional characters go through.
Those like Dracula and Frankenstein's monster have been a part of popular culture there are many different interpretations of them, from silly to really cool.

Lovecraft's stories are public domain now, so soon we'll be seeing Cthulhu halloween costumes for children.