Diabolist ward phrases

[Nemo235]

Okay, a number of wards strung together make a ward phrase, kind of like a sentance.

Looking at page 126, under Conditions and Protection by infliction:
"Protection by inlfiction must have a condition...(a two ward combination.)"
Should that say "(a three ward combination.)"?

And on page 133, under Protection and Placing Protection from + Condition:
"All such applications must include the protection from ward and the condition ward to make a one ward phrase."
Should it be a two ward phrase?

Are these typos or am I missing something?

[The Dark Elf]

Okay, a number of wards strung together make a ward phrase, kind of like a sentance.

Looking at page 126, under Conditions and Protection by infliction:
"Protection by inlfiction must have a condition...(a two ward combination.)"
Should that say "(a three ward combination.)"?

And on page 133, under Protection and Placing Protection from + Condition:
"All such applications must include the protection from ward and the condition ward to make a one ward phrase."
Should it be a two ward phrase?

Are these typos or am I missing something?

You're right in what you've noticed so at least you've grasp wards.

the answer to the question is that because they all have a condition they don't include that in their description of the " X ward phrase"

[Nemo235]

I'm sorry but I still don't understand. I thought Condition was a ward type.

Does it not count as one of the wards in the phrase because it is linked to protection, like Protection (from) Condition?

I'm going to read the explanation again, but if anyone could provide some other examples of how to construct ward phrases it would be greatly appreciated.

[Reagren Wright]

I've hard trouble with the wording of ward magic since 1st edition. Page 123 shows the
accurate way of doing word phrasing. Also look on page 127 which shows all the ward symbols.
Each symbols represents part of the phrase. Protection from is a single ward. A
Condition is another single ward. Together they make a two ward phrase. Inflict
wards are single wards. Don't get confused by protection by infliction and infliction wards they
are two different kinds of ward magic. Inflict wards (page 132) in used to bestow ward magic
on a living being. Protection by infliction is is placed on objects and activates when the object
is disturbed or touched. What you mentioned on page 133 is a classic editing error. Protection
from and condition are two wards. This happens when two many editors are attempting to
clarify something. The result is the statement doesn't make any sense or the original error is
left in place. Trust me on this.

My problem with ward magic is the classic you can't put ward on weapons. Why not? If a
diabolist puts the ward phrase protection by inflicting agony permanence on a broad sword, he
should be able to willingly activate it to cause additional damage to the orc he strikes with it.
The ward doesn't hurt him and by using a person's true name and combing runes he could even
make the sword work for another person. Call me crazy but when you read page 121 on ward
place and why its doesn't work on weapon, the top paragraph in the second column is nothing
more than an invalid argument. I can understand why area effect won't work but not
protection by inflictions with a permanence wards on them, other than Palladium wants ward
magic to be used for a specific purpose and keep the creation of magic item a mystery for
alchemist.

[Runeslinger]

Not just that, but there is an added layer of mystery to having elements like this. Beyond the practical considerations of how to apply wards to hard-use items like weapons, (not to mention issues of altering the weapon's centers of balance and percussion if you intend add things like bones to make it permanent), which can be interesting intellectual challenges for the characters, you can have the mystical step in and confront them:

"When I put this ward on a book, dinner plate, box, or door, it works. When I put it on a weapon - of any kind - it doesn't work... Why!?"

It seems obvious that this restriction is there for game design purposes, but it doesn't have to be a limiting thing.

[The Dark Elf]

If I put an inflict ward with the condition of agony on a sword and activate it, the sword suffers agony (so we notice nothing as it's an inanimate object).

If I put a protection by infliction ward with the condition of agony on a sword then as soon as someone other than me (the diabolist) moves it, they suffer from agony. If I strike them with the sword then it does not activate the ward as I moved it, not them. If they tried to steal it, it would activate. If it was stuck in them and they tried to pull it out, it would activate.

Hope these examples clear wards up a little for those whose are unsure.

[Goliath Strongarm]

If I put an inflict ward with the condition of agony on a sword and activate it, the sword suffers agony (so we notice nothing as it's an inanimate object).

If I put a protection by infliction ward with the condition of agony on a sword then as soon as someone other than me (the diabolist) moves it, they suffer from agony. If I strike them with the sword then it does not activate the ward as I moved it, not them. If they tried to steal it, it would activate. If it was stuck in them and they tried to pull it out, it would activate.

Hope these examples clear wards up a little for those whose are unsure.

Of course, if you put it in contact with them, and then force activate it, it still works..

[Reagren Wright]

You said it Goliath that's the problem right there. You read the page and its right there in plain
English. The argument that wards can't be put on weapons is a fallacy. I'm not sure which
type of bad argument it is but its definately one. A Mysteries of Magic needs to just clarify
the whole thing once and for all by giving a better example as to why or just say wards can
be put on weapons.

[The Dark Elf]

If I put an inflict ward with the condition of agony on a sword and activate it, the sword suffers agony (so we notice nothing as it's an inanimate object).

If I put a protection by infliction ward with the condition of agony on a sword then as soon as someone other than me (the diabolist) moves it, they suffer from agony. If I strike them with the sword then it does not activate the ward as I moved it, not them. If they tried to steal it, it would activate. If it was stuck in them and they tried to pull it out, it would activate.

Hope these examples clear wards up a little for those whose are unsure.

Of course, if you put it in contact with them, and then force activate it, it still works..

It wont activate whilst still being touched by the creator unless you activate it afterwards. You cannot do a slash, and activate a ward in the same attack so unless you stab them and the weapon remains embedded in the victim it cant be done. Not sure what the rules for this are. Ofc, permanent protection by infliction may very well work as its been activated prior to contact. I dont like that idea but its ok by the book.

You cannot put a ward on weapons or any portable items for the reason that they would go off to quickly. It IS book ligit that you can place wards on a weapon however they will go off the moment someone other than the diabolist picks it up.

Any infliction ward places the condition onto the actual item. This can be done on people but you have to draw the ward on the person (think torture as an example).

A protection by infliction wouldnt be activated by another person touching the item whilst the diabolist is holding it. So you cannot stab someone with a sword that has agony on it and have the ward go off on the stabbed victim.

I potentially see a loop hole by throwing the sword at the victim possibly, assuming it hits. This is because the diabolist would no longer have contact with the item/weapon.

Ward placement section mentions area affects wards on weapons however this is a contradiction by PB as area effect wards cannot be placed on small mobile items (only large generally stationary objects).

I agree they are confusing but that is what makes them a unique PF experience.

[Reagren Wright]

Lets try this again. A protection by infliction of (any condition ward)
combine with a permenance ward is always on. Let's do agony that 2
melees per level of experience. Say the diabolist is 3rd level. So he
hits an orc with the sword and activates it (since he's holding it).
Now why you can't swing and activate a ward doesn't
make sense, if anything it would take two actions instead of one
(what's the matter can't chew bubble gum and swing a sword at the
same time?). Orc gets hit now takes damage of sword and must
make a save vs. ward magic (14) for 6 melees. Now I would be
willing to say you can do multiple hits with the weapon but only one
magic save needs to be done. Its all there written down in the ward
magic section. I'm using the text, not influencing or hinting at what's
not there. You could do the same thing if you hit the guy with a
book. So until they remove the inconsistency from the language or
give a real explaination on why wards can't be used with weapons
other than the fear that ward weapons can be more deadly the rune
weapons, I'm going to use their language against itself and allow it
(however for my own sense of fair play I won't all ward strength
greater then 5th level to be on weapons).

[The Dark Elf]

(what's the matter can't chew bubble gum and swing a sword at the
same time?)

In RL - yep. In game - well...

I'd ask these questions (all of which are open to debate - i.e. no right or wrong):

If he just wanted to strike would that be one attack?
If he just wanted to activate a ward would that be one attack?
Can your diabolist attack and activate a different ward at the same time(AOE, protection from etc.)?

Can someone activate a circle whilst stabbing someone (same power words)?
Just how much "invoking" of the power words is simply muttering words?

I play one attack = one action. I am hard pressed to allow activating wards whilst running. Ofc, you obviously play different to me. Like the ward descriptions the interpretation is the beauty of PB but also the ugliness.

Oh and I agree one save per ward regardless of hits.