Robot Pilots - how do they mesh with the group?

[rat_bastard]

First off, the RPA pilot OCC is not a very good OCC, I would encourage him to take another OCC and pick up power armor piloting skills, Operator is obviously my favorite alternate but Headhunter, Cyber Knight, Psi tech, Paratrooper and bot killer headhunter all make much better pilots the the Robot pilot OCC.

Now, is he going to be a robot pilot or a Power Armor Pilot? This matters, one man in a robot is wasting valuable potential but robot vehicles have a sense of grandeur and scale that power armor lacks.

first thing to keep in mind is that power armor/robot pilots get allot of attacks, even though you can't get sharpshooting with heavy MD weapons you still have your normal hand to hand plus your robot combat hand to hand, meaning your power armor pilot will soon outclass the juicer in speed and # of actions while in his armor.

So you will have a character with great sensor abilities, great perception, incredible strength, really big guns and incredible maneuverability, as well as a sophisticated communications setup and personal computer all in his armor. If your player is smart he will be scary effective.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Hmm I think in most of my games we've just used NPC pilots. I've seen a few in other groups that became something of a expert in vehicle combat, piloting anything on legs, wheels, treads, etc. Sort of a "Transporter" type of guy. I think the key is just finding the right vehicle that works for you and the other players.

On the other hand, you might want to point out the Headhunter Anti-Robot Specialist too. Can still pilot robots, and now blow them up real good too! Considering the other players, it looks like this might be a better option.

[MikelAmroni]

It depends heavily on how you run the game - if you run a game where the robot is mostly a transportation method, then they are excellent at moving the party from adventure to adventure. They also provide some nice heavy artillery from time to time.

If you are running a heavy wilderness travel oriented game (where the trip, not the destination, is the adventure), then the robot pilot will be his own worst enemy. he draws twice the fire (larger target, able to reach out at longer ranges), will spend most of his loot on repairs and rearming, and generally will worry most about avoiding danger than going for it. He'll also be (or should be) the one instigating salvage operations and extra money making schemes. He also has to worry about trip planning and obstacle avoidance (can't go in that swamp or get mired and stuck).

[Supergyro]

Well, I was putting together my next campaign for my players. We will be adding 2 new players to our mix. Currently we have 3rd lvl Grackle Tooth, a 2nd lvl Juicer, and a 2nd lvl Psi Stalker. One of the two new players joining in wants to be RPA pilot and pilot a robot vehicle. My question is... how would I be able to mesh someone who relies on a giant robot vehicle into the game? Have you seen it done before? and if so how was it handled?

This looks like a scaling problem requiring some very delicate campaign design.

I'm a big believer in making sure characters in a party can work together. Three human sized guys and a 30 foot robot don't look to me to make for a party that's going to be easy to balance. I'd suggest vetoing the robot pilot and asking the player to make another character. Give the party a vehicle that they can ride, but a 20 foot tall battlerobot doesn't look like it would work for that party mix.

[rat_bastard]

actually earlier on the robot pilot is actually pretty balanced, its later on that the balance slips more and more away.

[jedi078]

Well, I was putting together my next campaign for my players. We will be adding 2 new players to our mix. Currently we have 3rd lvl Grackle Tooth, a 2nd lvl Juicer, and a 2nd lvl Psi Stalker. One of the two new players joining in wants to be RPA pilot and pilot a robot vehicle. My question is... how would I be able to mesh someone who relies on a giant robot vehicle into the game? Have you seen it done before? and if so how was it handled?

I would steer the player towards using a power armor as opposed to a full size Robot.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

if the other characters in the group pick up some skills like WP Heavy M.D. Weapons, Weapon Systems, Sensory Equipment, then they can be in the robot as well and use its secondary armaments. Get something with alot of guns.

[runebeo]

Its easy to mesh power armor characters into most groups I find. Best way is to go more for vehicle combat game. Face it this is not a Palladium Fantasy game, if your facing giant bots & CS Skycycles and your on foot or riding a horse your headed for an early grave. Our group uses SAMAS, robot horses armed with long range weapons, hoverbikes, helicopters and even jets. We also have beast mounts like Dragon Cat, Phantom Wolf, Nether Beast, Gruesome Tarbin, Spinosarus, Griffin, Pegasus, Living Charoit and cyborg horses. It depends on your group but theres no reason every character can't have a combat vehicle, PA or even Giant Robots. Flying has so many advantages and ground vehicles are so limited on where they can go. If your setting up camp on the ground your a sitting duck, while you can set a hovercar to float in the air for hours while you sleep and your less likely to get ate by a dinosaur. While I think vehicle combat is the best you'll still need to enter buildings and other key location without your bots or vehicles occasionally.

[TechnoGothic]

never had a problem with Robot vehicle Pilots in my games.
So what he has a Huge Robot Vehicle. He will be outside that vehicle to interact with others usually. The RV is for Combat Combat Combat...usually.

WHAT Robot Vehicle does he WANT ??
See thats the most important thing. Is a Single Pilot Robot Vehicle ?? Is it a Multiple Crew Type ??

Good Robot Vehicle is the Triax Ulti-Max. Its not really a power armor at all. Its a robot vehicle. Pilot is in a seated posion, with pedels and controls for everything. At 16ft they TRY to label it a Power Armor however. Its not, dont be fooled. Its a RV.

Also check out MACROSS 1 & 2 for more awesome Robot Vehicles. Metal Siren...for the win.

[The Galactus Kid]

if the other characters in the group pick up some skills like WP Heavy M.D. Weapons, Weapon Systems, Sensory Equipment, then they can be in the robot as well and use its secondary armaments. Get something with alot of guns.

...and seats. This is why the abolisher is GROSS!!! And, if you look closely at the new Devastator Mk II (with 8 seats!!!) with its 4 Predator II power armor suits, you're looking at a rip-roaring butt whooping coming down on someone.

[keir451]

While I've never had a problem letting a PC run a Robot, I might advise suggesting to your player that he run a power armor pilot, that will easily put him on par w/ the grackle tooth and allow extra defense. However if he's adamant that he want a ROBOT then show him the general selections availiable in the time setting and by OCC and scale the monsters. Don't have all encounters be where he can overwhelm them w/his giant robot. And always remember that "Chicks dig giant robots!".

[Mercdog]

If you do allow the player to take a large RV, I'd remind him that he may have to wait in a support position for some missions. As has been said, a RV is not very useful for stealth or low key missions, but if said mission were to go sour, the Robot Pilot could be a real life saver by acting as the calvalry. Just make sure the group has some decent communications equipment in order to call in their guardian angel.

[runebeo]

I have one PC that's a bot pilot. I end up having to send a lot of fire power against my PCs in order to balance them out. The other problem is if my PC's want to go underground he either stays behind or leave his mech.

This is where you strap a man-size power armor on the back of the bot, hide your big bot or gets some robot dogs to guard it and suit-up and head inside complex. Getting some robot dogs from New West or Triax 2 comes in handy since your character is so vulnerable out of his vehicles.

[The Galactus Kid]

I have one PC that's a bot pilot. I end up having to send a lot of fire power against my PCs in order to balance them out. The other problem is if my PC's want to go underground he either stays behind or leave his mech.

This is where you strap a man-size power armor on the back of the bot, hide your big bot or gets some robot dogs to guard it and suit-up and head inside complex. Getting some robot dogs from New West or Triax 2 comes in handy since your character is so vulnerable out of his vehicles.

The Robot/cyborg dogs in the Sovietski Sourcebook are going to be rad...but they probably won't be for sale in North America.

[runebeo]

I have one PC that's a bot pilot. I end up having to send a lot of fire power against my PCs in order to balance them out. The other problem is if my PC's want to go underground he either stays behind or leave his mech.

This is where you strap a man-size power armor on the back of the bot, hide your big bot or gets some robot dogs to guard it and suit-up and head inside complex. Getting some robot dogs from New West or Triax 2 comes in handy since your character is so vulnerable out of his vehicles.

The Robot/cyborg dogs in the Sovietski Sourcebook are going to be rad...but they probably won't be for sale in North America.

Luck my group adventures threw out the world, but heres a question about cyborg dogs, how can you ever trust a dog with a laser blaster? That would lead to allot of dead cats and think of the holes in the yard. Cyborgs dogs would be cool but I'll stick with robot dogs for the superior programing.

[Balabanto]

They mesh fine. One in every two adventures he's in the robot, one in every two he's not. Some adventures will be based in areas where you can't take a robot, like cities. Many cities won't let you just walk a robot around.

Other adventures will take place when the robot is being repaired. This can be kind of mean, because the PC's may wish he was in the robot when you're done. However, this is a good way of teaching vulnerability and capability at the same time.

[TechnoGothic]

Well, I have been talking to my PC, and writingup some adventure ideas for them. I've found that I am beefing up the equipment for the other players a bit (who typically run low level weapons) and I'm adding bigger badder enemies for them too. More UAR-1s and SAMAS's to fight.

The PC is a huge Neon Genesis Evangelion fan, so he is definately looking for a Robot vehicle.
Which BTW is there something similar to that somewhere in the books? Does Triax 2 have something like that? (I'm just ordered my copy a few days ago and havent recieved it yet! I'm super excited!)

RIFTS : SOURCEBOOK ONE (Orginal or Revised) you can create your own Custom Robots. Actual Robots to Andriods to Power Armor to Robot Vehicles. Human Sized to Giant Sized. Humanoid to Non-humanoid.

For Evas. Just ignore the power cable aspect...
Assign it a PS ignore any Limits given in the books for Robotic PS. Its a Giant Mecha for goodness sake. It should not be limited to a few Tons for its strength.

Check out these Rifts Robot Vehicles.
Triax Devestator (WB5) and Traix 2 Sourcebook for Devestator Mark II.
Dragon Robot (Rifts Japan)
Valkaryie Veritec Fighters (Macross or Robotech)
Nurani Reaper Robot (Nurani Wave II)
Phase World ... has several i cannot remeber their names.

BUT YOU MIGHT WANT TO ... Remind the Player that RIFTS is not be like NGEva ever...
The two settings have different scales of Power. Evas are much more powerful than any Rifts Mecha will ever be able to achieve ... EVER. If he just wants to be Eva-like but not have that scale of power that is cool.
You could ask him to Play a Large Cyborg instead (12ft tall) that happens to look like an Eva.
I have found that Players want One of Two things in these instances. The Look of a character or the Power Level of a character. The Look is cool and easy to handle. The power level of most Anime characters are way over the top even for RIFTS.

[The Galactus Kid]

Which BTW is there something similar to that somewhere in the books? Does Triax 2 have something like that? (I'm just ordered my copy a few days ago and havent recieved it yet! I'm super excited!)

If you have the original Triax, there is a section in it about Robot pilots not actually being in their robots. They can either be a brain implanted in them, or even pilot by virtual reality. The PC could be in a truck with the PC's gear 50 miles away from the battle while the robot pounds away. Its pretty cool, and is something that I personally think is highly underused.

[The Galactus Kid]

I have one PC that's a bot pilot. I end up having to send a lot of fire power against my PCs in order to balance them out. The other problem is if my PC's want to go underground he either stays behind or leave his mech.

This is where you strap a man-size power armor on the back of the bot, hide your big bot or gets some robot dogs to guard it and suit-up and head inside complex. Getting some robot dogs from New West or Triax 2 comes in handy since your character is so vulnerable out of his vehicles.

Ran the guys through another dungeon last night. The previous session they manage to get a hold of a SAMAS armor that the Pilot could use. When they reconned the bunker it would have been a tight fit for the suit, but manageable. Instead of donning the suit he choose to go on overwatch five miles away (the longest range he had was mini-missiles at one mile), and then jump onto my laptop the rest of the night. The group left their vehicles behind closer to the bunker and even left an NPC to watch over them while they were gone.

Anybody have a solution for this?

medium ranged missiles. Have him get attacked by overwhelming force so he will stay close to the party.

[Dustin Fireblade]

I have one PC that's a bot pilot. I end up having to send a lot of fire power against my PCs in order to balance them out. The other problem is if my PC's want to go underground he either stays behind or leave his mech.

This is where you strap a man-size power armor on the back of the bot, hide your big bot or gets some robot dogs to guard it and suit-up and head inside complex. Getting some robot dogs from New West or Triax 2 comes in handy since your character is so vulnerable out of his vehicles.

Ran the guys through another dungeon last night. The previous session they manage to get a hold of a SAMAS armor that the Pilot could use. When they reconned the bunker it would have been a tight fit for the suit, but manageable. Instead of donning the suit he choose to go on overwatch five miles away (the longest range he had was mini-missiles at one mile), and then jump onto my laptop the rest of the night. The group left their vehicles behind closer to the bunker and even left an NPC to watch over them while they were gone.

Anybody have a solution for this?

The jet pack and what not I make detachable, making for a smaller profile.

Personally it sounds like you have someone really not interested in playing though at this point. Maybe take another look at the Headhunter Anti-Robot Specialist and give him the best of both worlds. Of course, since he didn't contribute squat, perhaps the lack of XP and loot might change his mind. If not them have a giant robot step on his character and tell him thanks for coming, you'll call him when the next campaign starts...

[Mercdog]

I have one PC that's a bot pilot. I end up having to send a lot of fire power against my PCs in order to balance them out. The other problem is if my PC's want to go underground he either stays behind or leave his mech.

This is where you strap a man-size power armor on the back of the bot, hide your big bot or gets some robot dogs to guard it and suit-up and head inside complex. Getting some robot dogs from New West or Triax 2 comes in handy since your character is so vulnerable out of his vehicles.

Ran the guys through another dungeon last night. The previous session they manage to get a hold of a SAMAS armor that the Pilot could use. When they reconned the bunker it would have been a tight fit for the suit, but manageable. Instead of donning the suit he choose to go on overwatch five miles away (the longest range he had was mini-missiles at one mile), and then jump onto my laptop the rest of the night. The group left their vehicles behind closer to the bunker and even left an NPC to watch over them while they were gone.

Anybody have a solution for this?

Long range enemy patrols, or maybe just a NPC sympathizer radioing in the Robot Pilots position to the enemy to let him know you haven't forgotten about him. Even a random bug eyed monster squatting on his optics or gnawing at the hydraulics can make his life more interesting. Just be sure that his troubles don't overshadow the group's overall mission.

[TechnoGothic]

He could encounter a village durning the Flyovers...see smoke, check it out. Have him face off against some Bandits or help the village defend itself again something he can help with. Evac village members to safty because of a flood. Then after he finishes with them, notice the flood is headed towards the groups dungeon crawl location. They are too far underground for the radio...

[Elthbert]

the biggest problem I have had is a conflict in play styles.... had several characters which were heavily melee oriented and several two robot pilots ( they were actually veritechs from robotech but the problems would remain regardless) the robot pilots tened to stay at extrem range and use ranged weapons and missles on the enemy. THe melee characters would charge in immediatly and try and go toe to toe. This lead to more than one friendly fire incident and a real conflict in the group. If you allow the Robot, make sure that repairs and money for repairs are not so hard to comeby that the pilot is afraid to get a scratch or he too will probaby have a very differant playstyle than your other players.

[Elthbert]

The Robot/cyborg dogs in the Sovietski Sourcebook are going to be rad...but they probably won't be for sale in North America.

But this is why the Europe-to-North-America black market has been tied to the Gypsies: they range the full breadth and width of Europe and eastern Russia (and elsewhere), they can steal pretty much anything given the chance, and are quick to Rift things over to North America to make a quick profit.

There is also a direct tie with the mafia in sicily according to the Rifter .... #1 I think.

[The Galactus Kid]

The Robot/cyborg dogs in the Sovietski Sourcebook are going to be rad...but they probably won't be for sale in North America.

But this is why the Europe-to-North-America black market has been tied to the Gypsies: they range the full breadth and width of Europe and eastern Russia (and elsewhere), they can steal pretty much anything given the chance, and are quick to Rift things over to North America to make a quick profit.

There is also a direct tie with the mafia in sicily according to the Rifter .... #1 I think.

From what I understand, that is not official.

[The Galactus Kid]

The Robot/cyborg dogs in the Sovietski Sourcebook are going to be rad...but they probably won't be for sale in North America.

But this is why the Europe-to-North-America black market has been tied to the Gypsies: they range the full breadth and width of Europe and eastern Russia (and elsewhere), they can steal pretty much anything given the chance, and are quick to Rift things over to North America to make a quick profit.

There is also a direct tie with the mafia in sicily according to the Rifter .... #1 I think.

From what I understand, that is not official.

It should be. The Neo Roman Empire is awesome.

I'll have to go back and re-read it, but from what I remember, it wasn't too impressive.

[kh_hawkes]

Don't mean to hijack the thread. But on average what is the number of attacks a PA gets at second level? 7 with boxing?

[Mercdog]

Don't mean to hijack the thread. But on average what is the number of attacks a PA gets at second level? 7 with boxing?

I believe it's 6 on average, unless you have hth:Assassin, then yes, it would be 7.

[rat_bastard]

Don't mean to hijack the thread. But on average what is the number of attacks a PA gets at second level? 7 with boxing?

5 at 1st-2nd, 6 at 3rd-5th, 8 at 4th-5th

depends on the hth skill really.

[kh_hawkes]

Commando with boxing

[Blue_Lion]

Well, I was putting together my next campaign for my players. We will be adding 2 new players to our mix. Currently we have 3rd lvl Grackle Tooth, a 2nd lvl Juicer, and a 2nd lvl Psi Stalker. One of the two new players joining in wants to be RPA pilot and pilot a robot vehicle. My question is... how would I be able to mesh someone who relies on a giant robot vehicle into the game? Have you seen it done before? and if so how was it handled?

This looks like a scaling problem requiring some very delicate campaign design.

I'm a big believer in making sure characters in a party can work together. Three human sized guys and a 30 foot robot don't look to me to make for a party that's going to be easy to balance. I'd suggest vetoing the robot pilot and asking the player to make another character. Give the party a vehicle that they can ride, but a 20 foot tall battlerobot doesn't look like it would work for that party mix.

Most robot vehicles weapons are not better than the ones the ground based pcs could carry. He will have higher repair bills and if he uses missles watefully may even go broke. I do not see a game misbalance ready to happen if done right. If his vehicle is multi pilot or pilot and gunner then the other charters will be up there with him. Just rember the robot he gets to sart is your choice more than his (you can veto his choice or just say you get X) The titan combat robot vehicle giving your groups make up may be a good choice (rail gun does 1d4X10 has mini missles for when you need the extra punch) is not as op as some of the PA out there. Shure it has lots of MDC but has less damage your juicer does what 1d6X10 or more as does the gaptooth. The robot will probaly draw most of the fire and fill a tank style roll with less sustainable damage (the minimissles might hit hard but they are limited and make replacing them take allot Ei limit pay do not make them free.) most his money will be spent on repairs most likly.

[Blue_Lion]

the biggest problem I have had is a conflict in play styles.... had several characters which were heavily melee oriented and several two robot pilots ( they were actually veritechs from robotech but the problems would remain regardless) the robot pilots tened to stay at extrem range and use ranged weapons and missles on the enemy. THe melee characters would charge in immediatly and try and go toe to toe. This lead to more than one friendly fire incident and a real conflict in the group. If you allow the Robot, make sure that repairs and money for repairs are not so hard to comeby that the pilot is afraid to get a scratch or he too will probaby have a very differant playstyle than your other players.

You can use line of sight issues and concealment to get the bad guys in close the other side should have PA or something with good range and maybe mellee guys that need to be kept off your mechs.

[ZINO]

even if the robot OCC may be or is over powered that find i just bring it up little by little till three is some balance