"new" magic Circles possible?

[jaymz]

I freely admit to knowing very little about PFRPG specifically, I've had one character from there and played other characters just passing through.

So, please be patient if I'm asking a "no-brainer" here, but I'd like to make sure I understand a few things about Circle magic.

1) Are the Circles presented in PFRPG the *only* Circles out there (aside from others that may have appeared in supplements and Rifters)? As in, there are really only those handful of magic Circles and Summoner's, Shifters, and/or other Circle magic specialists don't really need/want more.

2) If the answer to #1 is "no", can Circles be used to replicate an Invocation spell, i.e., a "Circle of Cleanse" for example, which the magic user could inscribe on her bathroom floor and just activate every morning instead of doing the whole shower, brush teeth, etcetera? If this is possible, are there guidelines or rules somewhere for how to balance or do this?

Excellent question....I'd like to see an offical answer to this as well.

I would think the answer to number 1 is that there are more if you make them adn to number 2 is seems logical to be done

[Library Ogre]

IMO, new magic circles are possible, but making one is fraught with danger; you need to create the proper circle, find the proper cadence and sequence of power words, and come up with a proper sacrifice.

[Starmage21]

new circles have been either invented or rediscovered in the various sourcebooks.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I freely admit to knowing very little about PFRPG specifically, I've had one character from there and played other characters just passing through.

So, please be patient if I'm asking a "no-brainer" here, but I'd like to make sure I understand a few things about Circle magic.

1) Are the Circles presented in PFRPG the *only* Circles out there (aside from others that may have appeared in supplements and Rifters)? As in, there are really only those handful of magic Circles and Summoner's, Shifters, and/or other Circle magic specialists don't really need/want more.

There are more Circles. Some other books have new ones, however, many of them are lost. Circle magic was invented by the old ones and it also says that lizard mages continued the reserch developing new ones, so new circles ARE possible, however very, very rare.

2) If the answer to #1 is "no", can Circles be used to replicate an Invocation spell, i.e., a "Circle of Cleanse" for example, which the magic user could inscribe on her bathroom floor and just activate every morning instead of doing the whole shower, brush teeth, etcetera? If this is possible, are there guidelines or rules somewhere for how to balance or do this?

With that, I have to say no. Circles are their own distinct system of magic, while some of the effects can be broadly similar, you cannot simply convert invocations to circles, no.

[jaymz]

I freely admit to knowing very little about PFRPG specifically, I've had one character from there and played other characters just passing through.

So, please be patient if I'm asking a "no-brainer" here, but I'd like to make sure I understand a few things about Circle magic.

1) Are the Circles presented in PFRPG the *only* Circles out there (aside from others that may have appeared in supplements and Rifters)? As in, there are really only those handful of magic Circles and Summoner's, Shifters, and/or other Circle magic specialists don't really need/want more.

There are more Circles. Some other books have new ones, however, many of them are lost. Circle magic was invented by the old ones and it also says that lizard mages continued the reserch developing new ones, so new circles ARE possible, however very, very rare.

2) If the answer to #1 is "no", can Circles be used to replicate an Invocation spell, i.e., a "Circle of Cleanse" for example, which the magic user could inscribe on her bathroom floor and just activate every morning instead of doing the whole shower, brush teeth, etcetera? If this is possible, are there guidelines or rules somewhere for how to balance or do this?

With that, I have to say no. Circles are their own distinct system of magic, while some of the effects can be broadly similar, you cannot simply convert invocations to circles, no.

Though a circle of cleansing certainly would be handy

[Nekira Sudacne]

I freely admit to knowing very little about PFRPG specifically, I've had one character from there and played other characters just passing through.

So, please be patient if I'm asking a "no-brainer" here, but I'd like to make sure I understand a few things about Circle magic.

1) Are the Circles presented in PFRPG the *only* Circles out there (aside from others that may have appeared in supplements and Rifters)? As in, there are really only those handful of magic Circles and Summoner's, Shifters, and/or other Circle magic specialists don't really need/want more.

There are more Circles. Some other books have new ones, however, many of them are lost. Circle magic was invented by the old ones and it also says that lizard mages continued the reserch developing new ones, so new circles ARE possible, however very, very rare.

2) If the answer to #1 is "no", can Circles be used to replicate an Invocation spell, i.e., a "Circle of Cleanse" for example, which the magic user could inscribe on her bathroom floor and just activate every morning instead of doing the whole shower, brush teeth, etcetera? If this is possible, are there guidelines or rules somewhere for how to balance or do this?

With that, I have to say no. Circles are their own distinct system of magic, while some of the effects can be broadly similar, you cannot simply convert invocations to circles, no.

Though a circle of cleansing certainly would be handy

Not when you realize that it's easier to just put water in a bathtub...

[jaymz]

I freely admit to knowing very little about PFRPG specifically, I've had one character from there and played other characters just passing through.

So, please be patient if I'm asking a "no-brainer" here, but I'd like to make sure I understand a few things about Circle magic.

1) Are the Circles presented in PFRPG the *only* Circles out there (aside from others that may have appeared in supplements and Rifters)? As in, there are really only those handful of magic Circles and Summoner's, Shifters, and/or other Circle magic specialists don't really need/want more.

There are more Circles. Some other books have new ones, however, many of them are lost. Circle magic was invented by the old ones and it also says that lizard mages continued the reserch developing new ones, so new circles ARE possible, however very, very rare.

2) If the answer to #1 is "no", can Circles be used to replicate an Invocation spell, i.e., a "Circle of Cleanse" for example, which the magic user could inscribe on her bathroom floor and just activate every morning instead of doing the whole shower, brush teeth, etcetera? If this is possible, are there guidelines or rules somewhere for how to balance or do this?

With that, I have to say no. Circles are their own distinct system of magic, while some of the effects can be broadly similar, you cannot simply convert invocations to circles, no.

Though a circle of cleansing certainly would be handy

Not when you realize that it's easier to just put water in a bathtub...

But a bath takes time.....I want to be clean NOOOOOW

[LJ]

I dream of a Circle of Transmutation. What? It's not like I plan on transforming other PCs into horrible abominations or anything......I just want to transform them into more useful things so I can get components to sell to alchemists.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I freely admit to knowing very little about PFRPG specifically, I've had one character from there and played other characters just passing through.

So, please be patient if I'm asking a "no-brainer" here, but I'd like to make sure I understand a few things about Circle magic.

1) Are the Circles presented in PFRPG the *only* Circles out there (aside from others that may have appeared in supplements and Rifters)? As in, there are really only those handful of magic Circles and Summoner's, Shifters, and/or other Circle magic specialists don't really need/want more.

There are more Circles. Some other books have new ones, however, many of them are lost. Circle magic was invented by the old ones and it also says that lizard mages continued the reserch developing new ones, so new circles ARE possible, however very, very rare.

2) If the answer to #1 is "no", can Circles be used to replicate an Invocation spell, i.e., a "Circle of Cleanse" for example, which the magic user could inscribe on her bathroom floor and just activate every morning instead of doing the whole shower, brush teeth, etcetera? If this is possible, are there guidelines or rules somewhere for how to balance or do this?

With that, I have to say no. Circles are their own distinct system of magic, while some of the effects can be broadly similar, you cannot simply convert invocations to circles, no.

Though a circle of cleansing certainly would be handy

Not when you realize that it's easier to just put water in a bathtub...

But a bath takes time.....I want to be clean NOOOOOW

And drawing a circle of cleaning that takes at least 6 hours to draw and a 3 minute prep time for activation is "now" how?

[jaymz]

But a bath takes time.....I want to be clean NOOOOOW

And drawing a circle of cleaning that takes at least 6 hours to draw and a 3 minute prep time for activation is "now" how?

Well once the circle is made unless someone ruins it for some reason....can be used over and over again can it not?

[Nekira Sudacne]

But a bath takes time.....I want to be clean NOOOOOW

And drawing a circle of cleaning that takes at least 6 hours to draw and a 3 minute prep time for activation is "now" how?

Well once the circle is made unless someone ruins it for some reason....can be used over and over again can it not?

Yes, but circles once made also require sevearal minutes, up to an hour, of time to activate even when already made.

[The Dark Elf]

Theres circle of youth and circle of contagion in Place of Magic as well as the transformation stuff in the secret complex.

[jaymz]

But a bath takes time.....I want to be clean NOOOOOW

And drawing a circle of cleaning that takes at least 6 hours to draw and a 3 minute prep time for activation is "now" how?

Well once the circle is made unless someone ruins it for some reason....can be used over and over again can it not?

Yes, but circles once made also require sevearal minutes, up to an hour, of time to activate even when already made.

AH gotchya...I always thought it just took pumping some PPE into them....especially if was something minor like a cleanse circle.....unless.......it was made to be always active? Anyone who walks through it gets cleaned all teh time? Is that even possible?

[Nekira Sudacne]

But a bath takes time.....I want to be clean NOOOOOW

And drawing a circle of cleaning that takes at least 6 hours to draw and a 3 minute prep time for activation is "now" how?

Well once the circle is made unless someone ruins it for some reason....can be used over and over again can it not?

Yes, but circles once made also require sevearal minutes, up to an hour, of time to activate even when already made.

AH gotchya...I always thought it just took pumping some PPE into them....especially if was something minor like a cleanse circle.....unless.......it was made to be always active? Anyone who walks through it gets cleaned all teh time? Is that even possible?

Circles require a small ritual of chanting the powers words in order to activate every time. Getting a diabolist to put a Permancy ward on it would make it so the circle is always active and clenses anyone who walks in the circle immediately; but is kind of a waste sinse dragon bone isn't easy to come by, and it's required to make a permancy ward.

[jaymz]

Well once the circle is made unless someone ruins it for some reason....can be used over and over again can it not?

Yes, but circles once made also require sevearal minutes, up to an hour, of time to activate even when already made.

AH gotchya...I always thought it just took pumping some PPE into them....especially if was something minor like a cleanse circle.....unless.......it was made to be always active? Anyone who walks through it gets cleaned all teh time? Is that even possible?[/quote]

Getting a diabolist to put a Permancy ward on it would do that.

Kind of a waste, sinse Dragon bone isn't easy to come by, and it's required to make a permancy ward.[/quote]

Ah but then I could essentially be clean NOOOW! When I want to be clean NOOOW!


Sorry just havin some fun with ya Some of the otehr threads are getting a tad TOO serious.

[jaymz]

Sorry just havin some fun with ya Some of the otehr threads are getting a tad TOO serious.

Dear God in Heaven no kidding, sheesh.

I could see certain Circles being worth the expenditure of dragon bone for Permanency though. I mean, if you were rich enough. Honestly, a Circle of Cleanse would be awfully handy, but imagine a Circle of Mend the Broken? Or a Circle of Armor of Ithan or Invulnerability?

Your base gets attacked, you just run through the Circle - BAM! You've got Invulnerability or something up. Once the battle is over, you dump your singed and busted up armor into the Circle of Mending, wait a couple hours or days, and it's as good as new.

Alas, Circles don't replicate invocation spells.

*POOF* well they can now in my world MUAHHAHAHAHAHAH!!! er ahem, yeah....

[Starmage21]

Circles require a small ritual of chanting the powers words in order to activate every time. Getting a diabolist to put a Permancy ward on it would make it so the circle is always active and clenses anyone who walks in the circle immediately; but is kind of a waste sinse dragon bone isn't easy to come by, and it's required to make a permancy ward.

Actually, they only require 5PPE and the recitation of the power words to use again. I'd say thats a melee action at best, an entire melee round at worst. Once made, ANYONE can be taught to use a circle. MAKING them is the hard part. And yeah, if you put the Permanancy ward in there, they become always on. IIRC the reason diabolists have mention of circles in their OCC abilities is because they can learn to MAKE them.

Also, it is my opinion that nothing should keep a magic circle from replicating an invocation spell if the player wants to take the time to work it out with their GM, and follow through the appropriate role-playing (research and such). Several circles replicate several invocation spells simultaneously. And dont even get me started on the Summoning Circle of Elemental Forces, that thing is nasty.

[Starmage21]

Circles require a small ritual of chanting the powers words in order to activate every time. Getting a diabolist to put a Permancy ward on it would make it so the circle is always active and clenses anyone who walks in the circle immediately; but is kind of a waste sinse dragon bone isn't easy to come by, and it's required to make a permancy ward.

Actually, they only require 5PPE and the recitation of the power words to use again. I'd say thats a melee action at best, an entire melee round at worst. Once made, ANYONE can be taught to use a circle. MAKING them is the hard part. And yeah, if you put the Permanancy ward in there, they become always on. IIRC the reason diabolists have mention of circles in their OCC abilities is because they can learn to MAKE them.

Also, it is my opinion that nothing should keep a magic circle from replicating an invocation spell if the player wants to take the time to work it out with their GM, and follow through the appropriate role-playing (research and such). Several circles replicate several invocation spells simultaneously. And dont even get me started on the Summoning Circle of Elemental Forces, that thing is nasty.

When you say anyone can be taught to *use* a Circle, do you mean one that's already been scratched into the dirt or whatever? Or use as in "ok, I've spent 6 months teaching you how to draw this Circle of Protection against faeries, you know how to draw it and activate it, so get out of my hut and don't bother me again"? Meaning, they don't know how to create a new magic Circle or even how to recognize or do anything with other magic circles, but they could use the one they learned?

Only the summoner and diabolist may draw circles (that work), but once drawn anyone can be taught the proper incantation of power words necessary to use it.

Example, I am a summoner, and you want a circle of protection vs evil in your home. I take the time to draw it, and spend my PPE to activate it, and seal it with your blood so that you can use it to hold evil at bay. After that, you only need to say the power words (and have 5PPE available) to step in it and use it at any given time. If for some reason the circle becomes damaged, you'd have to call me back to repair it or draw a new one.

[Library Ogre]

On the circle of cleanse, a lot of it depends on how it was made. Some circles are constantly active, constantly working. Others need a per-use activation. Teleport is an interesting combination of these two... it's always active, but you have to burn faerie wings to start it each time.

[Starmage21]

Smart summoners research a new version of the teleport power circle that doesnt require fae wings, OR they summon a faerie and pluck it's wings.

(an anarchist summoner might force said summoned fae creature to find dead faeries and steal their wings)

[AlanGunhouse]

There are some circles known to the Armageddon Unlimited Demon Hunter.

[drewkitty ~..~]

... If there's a "Circle of Cleanse" out there, ....

"Mother's Little Helper" Clean the whole house with one simple activation.

Actually my 1st thought was to have it made around a Collage Dorm to clean it. But the song lyric popped into my head.
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Rifts side thought: what would a TW magic circle look like? hummmm
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I dream of a Circle of Transmutation. What? It's not like I plan on transforming other PCs into horrible abominations or anything......I just want to transform them into more useful things so I can get components to sell to alchemists.

Now Why Does That Sound Like Something GT Would Say?
TJ are you psychic and channeling thoughts for GT?

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AH gotchya...I always thought it just took pumping some PPE into them....especially if was something minor like a cleanse circle.....unless.......it was made to be always active? Anyone who walks through it gets cleaned all the time? Is that even possible?

Can see a perm. cleanse circle at city gates....
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In a fantasy novel I read back in my 20's there were options to make magic circles, the most common way was to write out in words to make the magic endure, and the other option was to write out symbols to make the magic endure.

What I see here is that in PB the common way to construct a magic circle is with magic symbols. So what if you could write the magic out in words or runes? Could it then be a more flexible and make a invocation like effect?
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Only the summoner and diabolist may draw circles (that work) as a class ability.
However, mages can, if they devote a big chunk of time, research how to make magic circles. This is how they were developed in the 1st place. [ Of course the 1st mages to discover them were The Old Ones which had lots of time to fiddle and develop such things. Any rediscovery would be by some mortal or lesser (then the Old Ones) SN being. ] But a mortal mage might be able to figure out one in a lifetime if they put her/his mind to it.
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As to the OP question.
1) Those are all the canon circles, yes. GM's are not bound by canon if they want to make something up for their games.

2) Again, GM's can in their own games have these things if they so desire.
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Hear is a spell I wrote up a few years ago.

Inscribe Magic Circle
Level 10
Range: 50 feet (near the caster)
Duration: instant/permanent (dependent)
Saving Throws: none
P.P.E.: 70 and that of the supported spell
This spell creates a magic circle that lets a mage use an otherwise instant spell as a ritual, such as create steal. Or it can be used to help make a temporary magic circle to cast a ritual as a spell, such as Sanctuary. If used in combination with simple circle magic such as 'protection circle simple' the duration is doubled or the effectiveness is increased.

[gaby]

I would love to see New Circles.

Here is my idea for some New Circles,that may help you.
But your the One that needs to come up with the components,sacrificed,power words,p.p.e.cost and range.

(1) Circle of slow age:the Maker ageing is slow equal to half the potential life spand of the sacrificed.

(2)Circle Curse:the Maker needs hair or blood of the person he want to Curse.Equal to curse spell

[St. Evil]

1) Are the Circles presented in PFRPG the *only* Circles out there (aside from others that may have appeared in supplements and Rifters)? As in, there are really only those handful of magic Circles and Summoner's, Shifters, and/or other Circle magic specialists don't really need/want more.

2) If the answer to #1 is "no", can Circles be used to replicate an Invocation spell, i.e., a "Circle of Cleanse" for example, which the magic user could inscribe on her bathroom floor and just activate every morning instead of doing the whole shower, brush teeth, etcetera? If this is possible, are there guidelines or rules somewhere for how to balance or do this?

1. The Circle of Soul Transference was not mentioned, well as youth both in the Place of Magic.
2. Its your game do what you want, I would just use a wizards tongue and a Knowledge circle personally.

To those that say a diabolist, can create and learn circle magic what is the reference since it is noted in the OCC description that they can not in 2nd Ed, or were you referring to 1st Ed rules? Or do you say they can because of bad editing and the loopholes that provides?