Do OCC restrictions apply after the game has started?

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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by Mech-Viper Prime »

this is why i like skill packages vs OCC , occ are great for instant characters , but not for a detailed characters.

"sorry I know his back story was he grew up on a ranch, surrounded by cowboys in texas and then went off to join the CS but no cowboy skills in his secondary skills "
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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by Shark_Force »

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:this is why i like skill packages vs OCC , occ are great for instant characters , but not for a detailed characters.

"sorry I know his back story was he grew up on a ranch, surrounded by cowboys in texas and then went off to join the CS but no cowboy skills in his secondary skills "


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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by kogwar »

They cover this in the Charactor sheet there is a section for occ then for you occupation so in your case\
Occ: insert
Occupation: Bandit
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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by Vrykolas2k »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Vrykolas2k wrote:Primus: Every time anyone asks about changing OCCs, they are referred to the rules you've mentioned dealing with fantasy. Maybe a ploy to sell the books...?
Secondus: There are also rules for switching from many OCCs to 'Borg, or from Juicer to certain other OCCs. That's official for Rifts in itself. As well, when one becomes a Cosmo-Knight, they've switched OCCs, as well as Apok.
Tertian: One can logically draw the conclusion that you can switch OCCs based on the NPCs who have multiples.


P: PF is PF and Rifts is Rifts. It is only a GM that brings any rules between the settings. Thus there are no Canon changing OCC rules in Rifts.

S: Those are the OCC specific rules for changing from Juicer to Borg and from Juicer or wannabe to juicer. They can not be applied across the board.

Cosmo-Knights are not Just a change of OCC, it is a change of being in which class of the old self is lost, Thus is a moot example.

Apok, *grumbles about having to go and dig that ancient book out* The Apok as a class were something else, much like the above CK. Like the change to a CK, the change is a change of being. Everything of the old self that could be called a "class" is Gone, completely Gone. Leaving a new char. So again your example is moot.



So basically it all depends on how pedantic someone wants to be about what they call official rules.
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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by Subjugator »

Dr. Doom III wrote:Dragons are RCCs and cannot take OCCs.


If you are basing that statement on their being dragons...*shrug*...OK. If you're basing that on their being an RCC, there is evidence to the contrary. There is at least one Psi-Stalker that's a wilderness scout.

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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by Subjugator »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Vrykolas2k wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The question is Moot because rifts chars can not change their class. There are not changing class rules in rifts.




Not entirely correct.

Support your claim.


Supports mine:
*The published changing class rules are in the PF High Seas book.
*The posted changing class rules are in the PF section of the Cutting Room Floor.

*The only other changing class rules I know of are in the 1st ed. Robotech Macross book. With the coming of RT 2nd ed. all the RT 2nd ed. all the 1st ed. RT books are non-canon.
*That is besides the fact that due to the contracts for doing the 2nd ed., nothing from RT can be "converted to the rest of the PB megaverse.
side note: I have nearly all the published PB megaversial game-books. The only book I do not have are the few new ones produced with in the last year.


If one gets too many bionics, one becomes a borg and ceases to be what one once was. There's at least one exception - military specialists don't have to change.

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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by Dr. Doom III »

Subjugator wrote:
Dr. Doom III wrote:Dragons are RCCs and cannot take OCCs.


If you are basing that statement on their being dragons...*shrug*...OK. If you're basing that on their being an RCC, there is evidence to the contrary. There is at least one Psi-Stalker that's a wilderness scout.

/Sub


Psi-Stalker's have been retconed to be able to choose from a short list of OCCs.
Dragons have not.
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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by Galroth »

Dr. Doom III wrote:
Subjugator wrote:
Dr. Doom III wrote:Dragons are RCCs and cannot take OCCs.


If you are basing that statement on their being dragons...*shrug*...OK. If you're basing that on their being an RCC, there is evidence to the contrary. There is at least one Psi-Stalker that's a wilderness scout.

/Sub


Psi-Stalker's have been retconed to be able to choose from a short list of OCCs.
Dragons have not.



Dragon hatchlings are born with certain abilities making them start at hatching as an RCC, but to expand that to think they can't learn to perform an OCC afterwords is kind of ridiculous. Dragons are more than smart enough to do any job that they can convince someone else to train them in. Sure there aren't any rules for it, but I believe most games have at least 1 if not more house rules in them. Customizing the game to fit your particular gaming group is part of the fun.
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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by Dr. Doom III »

Galroth wrote:Dragon hatchlings are born with certain abilities making them start at hatching as an RCC, but to expand that to think they can't learn to perform an OCC afterwords is kind of ridiculous. Dragons are more than smart enough to do any job that they can convince someone else to train them in. Sure there aren't any rules for it, but I believe most games have at least 1 if not more house rules in them. Customizing the game to fit your particular gaming group is part of the fun.


Those are the rules of the game. You may think them ridiculous but that doesn't change them.
Neither does ignoring them for your own game.
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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by Nightmask »

Dr. Doom III wrote:
Galroth wrote:Dragon hatchlings are born with certain abilities making them start at hatching as an RCC, but to expand that to think they can't learn to perform an OCC afterwords is kind of ridiculous. Dragons are more than smart enough to do any job that they can convince someone else to train them in. Sure there aren't any rules for it, but I believe most games have at least 1 if not more house rules in them. Customizing the game to fit your particular gaming group is part of the fun.


Those are the rules of the game. You may think them ridiculous but that doesn't change them.
Neither does ignoring them for your own game.


Of which the rules aren't explicitly denying an OCC to most races. They make a point of noting when a particular race has a limited selection of OCC, which logically one doesn't do if that's the default. You only point out exceptions to the basic standard rules, if any. Without any blanket 'all races are limited to a given RCC unless otherwise noted' rule, and instead the occasional race that explicitly says that 'THIS particular race can only select from these options', one must infer that races are not restricted to a particular OCC unless otherwise noted.
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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by Dr. Doom III »

Nightmask wrote:Of which the rules aren't explicitly denying an OCC to most races. They make a point of noting when a particular race has a limited selection of OCC, which logically one doesn't do if that's the default. You only point out exceptions to the basic standard rules, if any. Without any blanket 'all races are limited to a given RCC unless otherwise noted' rule, and instead the occasional race that explicitly says that 'THIS particular race can only select from these options', one must infer that races are not restricted to a particular OCC unless otherwise noted.


Not all races are RCCs. In fact few are. Most are just races.
The ones that are RCCs with few exceptions don't get to choose another character class because their race already comes standard with one. One that all of the members of that race have. That's the CC in RCC.

There are races. They choose Character Classes by their Occupation.
Then there are RCCs. These are Races that have a default Character Classes which they have because that's the way they were born.

Elves are a race. They choose an occupation.
Dragons are an RCC. The don't choose anything. They are born that way.

Once again with few exceptions RCCs can't get a new Character Class by the book.
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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by Nightmask »

Dr. Doom III wrote:
Nightmask wrote:Of which the rules aren't explicitly denying an OCC to most races. They make a point of noting when a particular race has a limited selection of OCC, which logically one doesn't do if that's the default. You only point out exceptions to the basic standard rules, if any. Without any blanket 'all races are limited to a given RCC unless otherwise noted' rule, and instead the occasional race that explicitly says that 'THIS particular race can only select from these options', one must infer that races are not restricted to a particular OCC unless otherwise noted.


Not all races are RCCs. In fact few are. Most are just races.
The ones that are RCCs with few exceptions don't get to choose another character class because their race already comes standard with one. One that all of the members of that race have. That's the CC in RCC.


Sorry but that's just not the case. The exceptions are races that have a set character class, not those that don't. Once again you don't explicitly list a race has a limited choice if that's the blanket rule, because it's redundant and pointless. You list exceptions to the standard, the fact that the exceptions we see stated are pointing out what races explicitly have limited choices then the standard is unless explicitly noted that they have access to any OCC reasonably available. You can't learn to be a Diabolist if none are around to learn from, and you can't learn to climb a mountain if you've lived on a plain all your life.

Dr. Doom III wrote:There are races. They choose Character Classes by their Occupation.
Then there are RCCs. These are Races that have a default Character Classes which they have because that's the way they were born.


Uh no, that's wrong. They have default character classes because that's what a normal member of their race learns growing up. Some races are culturally distinct enough that what skills they learn fits a special spread for the average but they can't learn or know skills that simply don't exist to learn. It'd be irrational to insist otherwise. There are also the most commonly encountered members of a race, so you get a default RCC because those are the ones most likely to be encountered. Just as you have the average Psi-Stalker, with an average set of skills one might learn. One intentionally trained up in something else will have that OCC as it's skill-set not the average.

Dr. Doom III wrote:Elves are a race. They choose an occupation.
Dragons are an RCC. The don't choose anything. They are born that way.

Once again with few exceptions RCCs can't get a new Character Class by the book.


Sorry but that's just wrong, that's the opposite of what the books say. The few exceptions we see are explicitly noting what races are restricted, not the other way around. You simply can't take the instances where a race is explicitly noted as having a restriction and turn it into something that applies to everyone and make it out as if everything's restricted except where it says otherwise because that's contrary to what is actually said.
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It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by Dr. Doom III »

Nightmask wrote:
Dr. Doom III wrote:
Nightmask wrote:Of which the rules aren't explicitly denying an OCC to most races. They make a point of noting when a particular race has a limited selection of OCC, which logically one doesn't do if that's the default. You only point out exceptions to the basic standard rules, if any. Without any blanket 'all races are limited to a given RCC unless otherwise noted' rule, and instead the occasional race that explicitly says that 'THIS particular race can only select from these options', one must infer that races are not restricted to a particular OCC unless otherwise noted.


Not all races are RCCs. In fact few are. Most are just races.
The ones that are RCCs with few exceptions don't get to choose another character class because their race already comes standard with one. One that all of the members of that race have. That's the CC in RCC.


Sorry but that's just not the case. The exceptions are races that have a set character class, not those that don't. Once again you don't explicitly list a race has a limited choice if that's the blanket rule, because it's redundant and pointless. You list exceptions to the standard, the fact that the exceptions we see stated are pointing out what races explicitly have limited choices then the standard is unless explicitly noted that they have access to any OCC reasonably available. You can't learn to be a Diabolist if none are around to learn from, and you can't learn to climb a mountain if you've lived on a plain all your life.

Dr. Doom III wrote:There are races. They choose Character Classes by their Occupation.
Then there are RCCs. These are Races that have a default Character Classes which they have because that's the way they were born.


Uh no, that's wrong. They have default character classes because that's what a normal member of their race learns growing up. Some races are culturally distinct enough that what skills they learn fits a special spread for the average but they can't learn or know skills that simply don't exist to learn. It'd be irrational to insist otherwise. There are also the most commonly encountered members of a race, so you get a default RCC because those are the ones most likely to be encountered. Just as you have the average Psi-Stalker, with an average set of skills one might learn. One intentionally trained up in something else will have that OCC as it's skill-set not the average.

Dr. Doom III wrote:Elves are a race. They choose an occupation.
Dragons are an RCC. The don't choose anything. They are born that way.

Once again with few exceptions RCCs can't get a new Character Class by the book.


Sorry but that's just wrong, that's the opposite of what the books say. The few exceptions we see are explicitly noting what races are restricted, not the other way around. You simply can't take the instances where a race is explicitly noted as having a restriction and turn it into something that applies to everyone and make it out as if everything's restricted except where it says otherwise because that's contrary to what is actually said.


Sorry but that is the case and you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about the rules of the game.
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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by Nightmask »

Dr. Doom III wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
Dr. Doom III wrote:
Nightmask wrote:Of which the rules aren't explicitly denying an OCC to most races. They make a point of noting when a particular race has a limited selection of OCC, which logically one doesn't do if that's the default. You only point out exceptions to the basic standard rules, if any. Without any blanket 'all races are limited to a given RCC unless otherwise noted' rule, and instead the occasional race that explicitly says that 'THIS particular race can only select from these options', one must infer that races are not restricted to a particular OCC unless otherwise noted.


Not all races are RCCs. In fact few are. Most are just races.
The ones that are RCCs with few exceptions don't get to choose another character class because their race already comes standard with one. One that all of the members of that race have. That's the CC in RCC.


Sorry but that's just not the case. The exceptions are races that have a set character class, not those that don't. Once again you don't explicitly list a race has a limited choice if that's the blanket rule, because it's redundant and pointless. You list exceptions to the standard, the fact that the exceptions we see stated are pointing out what races explicitly have limited choices then the standard is unless explicitly noted that they have access to any OCC reasonably available. You can't learn to be a Diabolist if none are around to learn from, and you can't learn to climb a mountain if you've lived on a plain all your life.

Dr. Doom III wrote:There are races. They choose Character Classes by their Occupation.
Then there are RCCs. These are Races that have a default Character Classes which they have because that's the way they were born.


Uh no, that's wrong. They have default character classes because that's what a normal member of their race learns growing up. Some races are culturally distinct enough that what skills they learn fits a special spread for the average but they can't learn or know skills that simply don't exist to learn. It'd be irrational to insist otherwise. There are also the most commonly encountered members of a race, so you get a default RCC because those are the ones most likely to be encountered. Just as you have the average Psi-Stalker, with an average set of skills one might learn. One intentionally trained up in something else will have that OCC as it's skill-set not the average.

Dr. Doom III wrote:Elves are a race. They choose an occupation.
Dragons are an RCC. The don't choose anything. They are born that way.

Once again with few exceptions RCCs can't get a new Character Class by the book.


Sorry but that's just wrong, that's the opposite of what the books say. The few exceptions we see are explicitly noting what races are restricted, not the other way around. You simply can't take the instances where a race is explicitly noted as having a restriction and turn it into something that applies to everyone and make it out as if everything's restricted except where it says otherwise because that's contrary to what is actually said.


Sorry but that is the case and you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding about the rules of the game.
Believe what you will it matters not to me.


Well I can't help it if you've such a fundamental failure about the rules that you think I'm the one who's wrong, which you'd have to have if you think the rules actually have it that people can learn skills impossible to learn where they live because 'well that's all that's available because they're an X and X can only learn Y'. You raise a Psi-Stalker as a Special Forces OCC and he's not going to turn out a CS Psi-Stalker or Wild Psi-Stalker, trying to argue such things are in the rules is irrational and a complete failure in understanding the rules of the game, common sense, and logic.
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It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: Do OCC restrictions apply after the game is started?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Subjugator wrote:If one gets too many bionics, one becomes a borg and ceases to be what one once was. There's at least one exception - military specialists don't have to change.


drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
S: Those are the OCC specific rules for changing from Juicer to Borg and from Juicer or wannabe to juicer. They can not be applied across the board.


Your point was already covered. This is besides it being a Moot Point because it is an OCC specific rule.
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