Could a Super Hero destroy the Coalition?

[Guest]

fine then i'll give him alter physical structure metal

so then he would be an 800 mdc invunerable hunk of steel.

Still couldn't remotely stand up to the coalition. A few well armed guys sniping at you and you'd be down in under four minutes.

[Guest]

This reminds me of something that happened to me once. It was a few years ago, and I was in my girlfriend's kitchen. We were just kind of hanging out, and she started telling me about some defense moves she had. I, being cocky, was like 'oh yeah? haha, show me. I gotta see this.' She promptly walked up and in a blur, busted out a judo flip on me. I, weighing 50-60 pounds over her, was sprawled out on the floor. She may not be able to punch and hurt me, but it just takes one good overconfident schmuck (and Invulnerable) and then bam! You may not be injured, but you can be down. Imagine my surprise when a girl almost 10 inches shorter then me threw me down like she owned me.

[Gomen_Nagai]

a team of superbeings with invulnerability, Geo Thermal Control and Gravity Manipulation can Decimate the CS though... especially when they use the G.Manip powers to Just dismantle the megafortress.

[Killer Cyborg]

2. Particle Beams can damage a person with Invulnerability. Dumb but true.

Huh where did you get this?

I believe it's in Aliens Unlimited or some other book.
There was a big debate about it online at one point.

[Killer Cyborg]

Kevin is *not* a Super Hero. Kevin is YHVH as far as Rifts is concerned.

As a courtesy, try not to take the lord's name in vain.

[Killer Cyborg]

Yeah no one is disputing that the CS has psychics that fight, what I'm saying is when the battle first starts no one is going to think that hey maybe only a zapper or only a burster or a mind melter can hurt this guy. They are going to say well damn shoot him with your gun..wait that didn't work, shoot him with your laser rifle, that didn't work, throw a grenade at him, that didn't work. Maybe once they hit the guy with a long range missle and it does nothing then they will most likely call the Psy Battalions. THe cops don't call the S.W.A.T team for regular traffic stops so why would the coalition send their ringers it from the get go I don't think they would.

The CS is used to dealing with supernatural creatures, and many supernatural creatures cannot be harmed by conventional weaponry.
They'd try normal weapons, then they'd try silver, wood, iron, and psionics.
Not necessarily in that order; they'd use whatever happened to be closest.
If the invulnerable character attacked somewhere that there happened to be some CS psychics, then he'd get taken down quickly. If not, then it could take a while... but it would still happen.

[Killer Cyborg]

Wildfire

SN PS would tear off those pa arms one at a time and no way the pa pilots would be able togethor fast enough to get 5 of them togethor to pin him all at once. At least the first few trys. Id say it would take around 15 or so untill a succesfull pin. Thats of course if 5 PA's don't get in each others way while doing so which I don't think would work.

Tear/pry attacks do 1/2 normal punch damage.
Most PA and bots have plenty of MDC in their arms.
It would take a number of melees (even minutes) before the invulnerable character could rip the arm off of even one bot, and by that time he'd be pinned.

[Killer Cyborg]

I was reading through HU and found a super power that would allow a character to single handedly dominate the CS.

Invunerability makes a character invunerable to all attacks except psionic spell amgic and other magic. Even supernatural PS only does half damage. Now if you got a couple of these guys they could wipe out an entire CS battalion with no sweat. It says ground zero at a nuclear explosion or Super NOva, and fiery ereentry into an atmosphere from space, might HURT the character.

Seriously though if Tolkeen could have found like 10 of these guys or made them somehow there would be no need to destroy uit.

1. As has been pointed out, there are zillions of ways to stop an invulnerable character without damaging him. Nets, lassos, neural maces, radiation, drowning, strangulation, imprisonment, Psychic powers, etc. etc. etc.
2. Particle Beams can damage a person with Invulnerability. Dumb but true.

Radiation does not hurt the Invulnerable charachter.

I don't have my books with me, but last time I looked Radiation has 1/3 effect on invulnerable characters. It can't kill them, but it sure as heck can slow them down.

[Dead Boy]

You have a Super Hero with the HU power of Invulnerability? I have over a million Dog Boys all armed with Nerual Maces and Net Guns... and all I need is just a small few neutralize Mr. Super Hero before zapping him into a coma. After that I'm thinking of dropping him in a pit of drying MDC concrete. Let's see how his invulnerability deals with a lung full of that crud.

Neural Maces are too weak to effect someone with Invulnerability. Lightning wouldn't do damage so why would a stun gun stun him.

HU's Invulnerability only eliminates the possability of taking damage (HP/SDC). It only mitigates debilitating attacks, which is the general category the CS Neural Mace falls under. So worst case scenario it's only half as effective as normal. After being wacked up-side the head a few dozen times, Mr. Super Hero won't know the difference.

Too weak my ***... The things were made to take on supernatural monsters and lay them out like the over-rated sissy-girls they are.

I dissagree. They are not only Invulnerabile they also have ton of MDC. Like a glitterboy. So to be realistic, I would say they wouldn't work. At least thats the way I would play it. Any other way based on stun attacks would fall under saving versus poison in which he could also save agianst.

There are a few things wrong with that.

Firstly, Glitter Boys are immune because they have Full Environmental Shielding which is one of the listed things that can block or negate the nerual zap from the stun weapon. That's the primary means of guarding against the mace and such weapons in the first place. But among the many things the power of Invulnerability guards against, non-damaging stun attacks is not among them, (half damage at worst).

Secondly, Mr. Super Hero wouldn't automatically become an MDC creature the moment he stepped through a Rift. If he's built on strictly HU rules then he's an SDC guy at heart. If he does undergo a Rifts conversion, he'll be an MDC being because of his Invulnerability power, but he will NOT be truely invulnerable at that point according to pg. 50 of CB1re. He'll take megadamage just like anything else with MDC.
Side Note: remember that it says in HU that super attacks like the force or re-entry or a nuke might harm or even kill the hero. Well, quite frankly megadamage attacks (and their equivelents) are on that level of intencity, which explains why those with that power go from being nigh indestructable in the SDC world of HU to just another MDC dude in Rifts).

Thirdly, even if all that didn't hold true, who ever said the CS Nerual Mace didn't exert power on the MD scale, (other than Doom that is, and he's hardly a canon authority)? If you'll take a look at the current configuration as presented in the 4th edition of the RGMG, you see that not only does it not use conventional E-Clips, but also only gets eight ( 8 ) zaps per. If you compare that to other weapons that have similar payloads you'll see them hitting in the 5D6MD-plus range. That's a lot of juice comming from the head of that mace... equivelant to a medium MD blast in intencity. As such, even if he were an MDC critter, though that may be enough to negate the effects of the lamer stun weapons (like those from Japan and such that have payloads ranging from 100 to effectively unlimited), but not the Coalition's big boy that was made for this kind of work. The CS Nerual Mace has been more than effective enough to make the Dog Packs patrolling the various 'Burbs a force to be feared, not laughed off by any critter with just a few points of natural MDC, (and let's face it, there are a lot of them).

[Killer Cyborg]

I was reading through HU and found a super power that would allow a character to single handedly dominate the CS.

Invunerability makes a character invunerable to all attacks except psionic spell amgic and other magic. Even supernatural PS only does half damage. Now if you got a couple of these guys they could wipe out an entire CS battalion with no sweat. It says ground zero at a nuclear explosion or Super NOva, and fiery ereentry into an atmosphere from space, might HURT the character.

Seriously though if Tolkeen could have found like 10 of these guys or made them somehow there would be no need to destroy uit.

1. As has been pointed out, there are zillions of ways to stop an invulnerable character without damaging him. Nets, lassos, neural maces, radiation, drowning, strangulation, imprisonment, Psychic powers, etc. etc. etc.
2. Particle Beams can damage a person with Invulnerability. Dumb but true.

Radiation does not hurt the Invulnerable charachter.

I don't have my books with me, but last time I looked Radiation has 1/3 effect on invulnerable characters. It can't kill them, but it sure as heck can slow them down.

HUII, p. 278
"Gases, drugs, chemicals, poisons, toxins, disease and radiation will affect the invulnerable person, but are reduced to half the usual potency (half damage, duration, and effect). Deadly poisons, radiation and disease cannot kill this character, only make him sick."

HUII, p. 268
"The victims of nuclear radiation poisoning have the following symptoms: Physical nausea, headache, loss of appetite, and vomiting. Left untreated, the victim will take 3d6 points of damage daily (does not recover until treatment is recieved) and suffer from hair loss, ulceration of the skin, bone marrow depression, bloody diarrhea, lung fibrosis, premature thickening and hardening of the artery walls, and the possible development of a malignancy and eventual death."

Also, the victim reduces all bonuses by half, PE attribute by half, reduces speed and skill proficiencies by 10%, and loses 1 attack per melee for as long as they are sick.

[Wildfire]

Wildfire

SN PS would tear off those pa arms one at a time and no way the pa pilots would be able togethor fast enough to get 5 of them togethor to pin him all at once. At least the first few trys. Id say it would take around 15 or so untill a succesfull pin. Thats of course if 5 PA's don't get in each others way while doing so which I don't think would work.

Please correct me if I am wrong but the invunerable charact only has a SN rating for lifting and not damage so he can lift the Super Sam but he only does half his normal damage which I believe is equal to robotic to minimal and the 5 super Sams can trade the guy off it is like a tag team. and please remeber they fly at nearly mach so they could find a river or lake and drowned the sucker.

[Wildfire]

also I forgot to note that that acording to the revised conversion book states that the MD punch damage is 1d6 and the MD kick is 2d6
So you will do a 1d3 tear to a Super Sam's full nelson with four more behind him or one could hole each appenadage.

[Guest]

There are a few things wrong with that.

Firstly, Glitter Boys are immune because they have Full Environmental Shielding which is one of the listed things that can block or negate the nerual zap from the stun weapon. That's the primary means of guarding against the mace and such weapons in the first place. But among the many things the power of Invulnerability guards against, non-damaging stun attacks is not among them, (half damage at worst).

Secondly, Mr. Super Hero wouldn't automatically become an MDC creature the moment he stepped through a Rift. If he's built on strictly HU rules then he's an SDC guy at heart. If he does undergo a Rifts conversion, he'll be an MDC being because of his Invulnerability power, but he will NOT be truely invulnerable at that point according to pg. 50 of CB1re. He'll take megadamage just like anything else with MDC.
Side Note: remember that it says in HU that super attacks like the force or re-entry or a nuke might harm or even kill the hero. Well, quite frankly megadamage attacks (and their equivelents) are on that level of intencity, which explains why those with that power go from being nigh indestructable in the SDC world of HU to just another MDC dude in Rifts).

Thirdly, even if all that didn't hold true, who ever said the CS Nerual Mace didn't exert power on the MD scale, (other than Doom that is, and he's hardly a canon authority)? If you'll take a look at the current configuration as presented in the 4th edition of the RGMG, you see that not only does it not use conventional E-Clips, but also only gets eight ( 8 ) zaps per. If you compare that to other weapons that have similar payloads you'll see them hitting in the 5D6MD-plus range. That's a lot of juice comming from the head of that mace... equivelant to a medium MD blast in intencity. As such, even if he were an MDC critter, though that may be enough to negate the effects of the lamer stun weapons (like those from Japan and such that have payloads ranging from 100 to effectively unlimited), but not the Coalition's big boy that was made for this kind of work. The CS Nerual Mace has been more than effective enough to make the Dog Packs patrolling the various 'Burbs a force to be feared, not laughed off by any critter with just a few points of natural MDC, (and let's face it, there are a lot of them).

Heh. Can you say, 'Slam Dunk'?

[grandmaster z0b]

Rifts Avenger

2 major, 3 minor abilities

Major:

Invulnerable to Coalition Weaponry -- can't be harmed by weapons of any kind that are wielded by the Coalition or their allies.

Invulnerable to Everything Else -- psionics, magic, other super-powers, radiation, dog-crap, etc, etc.

Minor:

Always Knows What the Other Guy is Planning -- an improved version of Sixth Sense with a blending of Clairvoyance. +19 to Strike, Parry & Dodge against Coalition Opponents, but only +9 versus their allies, +6 against everyone else.

Summon Cosmo-Knight -- hey, killing off Coalition Death Squads twenty at a time can get, well, boring. Even the Rifts Avenger needs some "me" time. This power summons 1D6 Cosmo-Knights of levels 1D4 each, to lend a hand.

Summon Erin Tarn -- Perhaps the Avenger's most insidious power. You can't kill all the Coalition baddies, some you'll have to torture, with long boring speeches, and slides from her last vacation on Dimension X.

[Jimmy Crat]

There are a few things wrong with that.

Firstly, Glitter Boys are immune because they have Full Environmental Shielding which is one of the listed things that can block or negate the nerual zap from the stun weapon. That's the primary means of guarding against the mace and such weapons in the first place. But among the many things the power of Invulnerability guards against, non-damaging stun attacks is not among them, (half damage at worst).

Secondly, Mr. Super Hero wouldn't automatically become an MDC creature the moment he stepped through a Rift. If he's built on strictly HU rules then he's an SDC guy at heart. If he does undergo a Rifts conversion, he'll be an MDC being because of his Invulnerability power, but he will NOT be truely invulnerable at that point according to pg. 50 of CB1re. He'll take megadamage just like anything else with MDC.
Side Note: remember that it says in HU that super attacks like the force or re-entry or a nuke might harm or even kill the hero. Well, quite frankly megadamage attacks (and their equivelents) are on that level of intencity, which explains why those with that power go from being nigh indestructable in the SDC world of HU to just another MDC dude in Rifts).

Thirdly, even if all that didn't hold true, who ever said the CS Nerual Mace didn't exert power on the MD scale, (other than Doom that is, and he's hardly a canon authority)? If you'll take a look at the current configuration as presented in the 4th edition of the RGMG, you see that not only does it not use conventional E-Clips, but also only gets eight ( 8 ) zaps per. If you compare that to other weapons that have similar payloads you'll see them hitting in the 5D6MD-plus range. That's a lot of juice comming from the head of that mace... equivelant to a medium MD blast in intencity. As such, even if he were an MDC critter, though that may be enough to negate the effects of the lamer stun weapons (like those from Japan and such that have payloads ranging from 100 to effectively unlimited), but not the Coalition's big boy that was made for this kind of work. The CS Nerual Mace has been more than effective enough to make the Dog Packs patrolling the various 'Burbs a force to be feared, not laughed off by any critter with just a few points of natural MDC, (and let's face it, there are a lot of them).

Heh. Can you say, 'Slam Dunk'?

Agreed.

Swoosh

[Guest]

Rifts Avenger

2 major, 3 minor abilities

Major:

Invulnerable to Coalition Weaponry -- can't be harmed by weapons of any kind that are wielded by the Coalition or their allies.

Invulnerable to Everything Else -- psionics, magic, other super-powers, radiation, dog-crap, etc, etc.

Minor:

Always Knows What the Other Guy is Planning -- an improved version of Sixth Sense with a blending of Clairvoyance. +19 to Strike, Parry & Dodge against Coalition Opponents, but only +9 versus their allies, +6 against everyone else.

Summon Cosmo-Knight -- hey, killing off Coalition Death Squads twenty at a time can get, well, boring. Even the Rifts Avenger needs some "me" time. This power summons 1D6 Cosmo-Knights of levels 1D4 each, to lend a hand.

Summon Erin Tarn -- Perhaps the Avenger's most insidious power. You can't kill all the Coalition baddies, some you'll have to torture, with long boring speeches, and slides from her last vacation on Dimension X.

Lol. Youd' need all that to hope to stand a chance.

[Nxla666]

I see your and raise you

[The Ruiner]

If he jumps through a rift into Rifts earth from HU then he only becomes a MDC being thats crap, because it even says Supernatural Strenth only inflicts half damage, and since on an SDC scalre SNS can do 100 SDC damage so thats the same as mega damage.

yea....1(count them)M.D.

If he only becomes an MDC being then he's not very super

compared to a normal human....ummmm...yea it's pretty darn super

[Nxla666]

Still not cannon, but hey your game your cheese.

[grandmaster z0b]

Rolling Bear, maybe you should start a new thread asking

How could a Super Hero take out the CS?

Because that way thew board could discuss how it could be done instead of arguing about invulnerability. In general I don't think any individual could take out the CS, no matter how cool that would be. Trust me I have no love for the CS.

[Guest]

But he'll still be invunerable.

If he jumps through a rift into Rifts earth from HU then he only becomes a MDC being thats crap, because it even says Supernatural Strenth only inflicts half damage, and since on an SDC scalre SNS can do 100 SDC damage so thats the same as mega damage. If he only becomes an MDC being then he's not very super and since he can survive a NUCLEAR EXPLOSION I would say he would be a lot more than a mere MDC creature. Since after all Nuclear Weapons are Nuclear and you can't just change Nuclear. In HU and Rifts Earth I'm pretty sure Nuclear means the same thing I don't know how you would split atoms and differently.

and as for all those basketball analogy's please, basketball is for pansy's real men play rugby. Well real men who like drinking lots of real beer.

Radiation will hurt

Fine, become mega-damage. You're still not powerful enough. All in all, in HU, you're a big fish in a small pond. However, welcome to Rifts. Things will hurt you badly.

Also..rugby..pansies..

[Killer Cyborg]

Ok rules say he's still Invul. in rifts plus 700 mdc. but superhuman ST only for lifting. so would count as augmented not SN. and take half damage for Gases,drugs chemicals, poisons disease and radeation.

all this is in skraypers page 151 which has convertions for superpowers in rifts.

Right.
Between radiation, being overpowered physically, psionic attacks, radiation, gas attacks, and other stuff, an invulnerable character would get killed or subdued by the CS in rather short order.

[Guest]

A simple MDC net would stop him. lol sorry not a threat at all.

I've read the rules for MDC nets. It would take him 30 seconds to rip his way free from the net. However, i'm sure they could have another one sitting there for when that one's torn, unless he's smart enough to start ripping away at the earth beneath him. However, the CS is hardly honorable, and more then likely he'd be getting the smackdown from everything above him.

[Killer Cyborg]

A simple MDC net would stop him. lol sorry not a threat at all.

I've read the rules for MDC nets. It would take him 30 seconds to rip his way free from the net. However, i'm sure they could have another one sitting there for when that one's torn, unless he's smart enough to start ripping away at the earth beneath him. However, the CS is hardly honorable, and more then likely he'd be getting the smackdown from everything above him.

Where are the rules for MDC nets?

[Guest]

Where are the rules for MDC nets?

I want to say...Lone Star, but i'm not sure. It was a weapon that fired mega-damge nets and it said it took 30 seconds to get free from them.

[Guest]

It is in lone star under dogboy equipment and its like 1d4 melee round stuck or something like that. They are pretty sweet.

The way people talk however its like the guy is just sitting there and waiting. Ooh net gun, well yeah but he could dodge or have some type of bladed md weapon in which case the net is only effective for half the time. Or he could stay behind objects as cover so if he gets hit no big deal but a net wouldn't work. The guys just not going to sit around and wait for the entire coalition armed forces to gather then go to work.

Remember, you're the one that brought up the issue. So, the situation is, this Character wants to destroy an entire coalition army. By now, he's sure as hell got their attention from the previous attacks he's committed. The Coalition has the ability to find supernatural (assuming he would be, as he's now "700 MDC" and immune to normal weapons), plus, he's proven himself a threat. What do you think to point of all infantry in the world has been? Strike with speed and confusion to quickly eliminate your enemy in the most efficient manner possible. By now, they've discovered that regular weapons aren't working on this man, or aren't working well enough. More then likely they have a few teams of Special Forces running around, armed with "non-conventional" weaponry, including but not limited to radiation/gases/biological weapons. There's no way that a few men who have gone through hell and back in their training are going to be getting the smackdown from some d-bee. First off, a team would come out, directly, to get the Invulnerable's attention. He'd focus on this group of 6-8 men, and probably kill them easily. What that guy didn't see was an additional dozen men or so stalking (using prowl and a combination of camouflage) to approach him. Snipers posted in all directions, laying down suppressive fire to divert his attention. They may not actually hurt, but he's still going to feel it. Not even to mention the psionics involved in the action. So while he's feeling "invulnerable" and killing the obvious men, he's got more coming for him. His superpower would give him a sense of superiority, so he wouldn't be afraid. PA's are in the distance to give aid if needed. Dog boys watch from a distant tree-line, crouched in the brush (or rubble if you'd be in an urban setting), their gun's safety off and their grenades unhitched (or, the CS could have used the dog boys instead of the special forces as a attention diversion). Not sure if Stun grenades would affect them, but it certainly would get his attention. It takes one net. One bio-manipulation. One Neuro-strike. One Nuclear weapon. One biological weapon. Arrogance in one's own strength would be the downfall of your character, if anything. If not, there are a dozen more capture situations that are possible. I believe that I read somewhere that Supernatural strength wasn't strong enough? Well, it would seem pretty good to me to either A) Let the Janissary gang have it's fun with you, and then B) Park a giant APC on each of your arms, and angle a third over both legs. That'll hold you. You're not invulnerable to starvation, are you?

[Malakai]

To get things straight:

1) Invulnerable characters brought into RIFTS have 700 MDC and Regenerate at 1D6x10 per minute. Also, the "Vulnerable only to Magic, Psionics, and Magic Weapons" still applies (radiation, poisoning and such still apply as well). His strength is considered "Superhuman for the purposes of lifting and carrying" so you could say he only has normal strength for the purposes of damage or not (GMs call)

2) Still must breathe and other necessities.

Personally, If I were an Officer in the CS Military faced with such a being here's what I would do:

pvt: "Nothing's working sir! we've tried everything and he just keeps coming!"
Me: "Get me Officer Meltbrain from Psi-Battalion"
a little while latter
Ofc Meltbrain: "Reporting for duty, Sir!"
Me: "In your file, it is reported that you have the ability to form a Psi-Sword and the ability to perform Bio-Manipulation. Is this correct?"
Ofc M.: "Sir, yes, Sir!"
Me: "Can you use these powers to paralyze an individual at range and then engage them in melee, when they are unable to defend themselves?"
Ofc M: "Sir, yes, Sir!"
Me: "Your target is that individual over there (points to the Invulnerable Character). Engage the target at will."
Ofc M: "Sir, yes, Sir!"
Officer Meltbrain makes his way to the target and uses his Bio-Manipulation attack to paralyze the Invulnerable character and uses his psi-sword to to finish him off.

[RainOfSteel]

Officer Meltbrain makes his way to the target and uses his Bio-Manipulation attack to paralyze the Invulnerable character and uses his psi-sword to to finish him off.

The Invulnerable character may still make a Saving Throw.

[Dead Boy]

There are a few things wrong with that.

Firstly, Glitter Boys are immune because they have Full Environmental Shielding which is one of the listed things that can block or negate the nerual zap from the stun weapon. That's the primary means of guarding against the mace and such weapons in the first place. But among the many things the power of Invulnerability guards against, non-damaging stun attacks is not among them, (half damage at worst).

Secondly, Mr. Super Hero wouldn't automatically become an MDC creature the moment he stepped through a Rift. If he's built on strictly HU rules then he's an SDC guy at heart. If he does undergo a Rifts conversion, he'll be an MDC being because of his Invulnerability power, but he will NOT be truely invulnerable at that point according to pg. 50 of CB1re. He'll take megadamage just like anything else with MDC.
Side Note: remember that it says in HU that super attacks like the force or re-entry or a nuke might harm or even kill the hero. Well, quite frankly megadamage attacks (and their equivelents) are on that level of intencity, which explains why those with that power go from being nigh indestructable in the SDC world of HU to just another MDC dude in Rifts).

Thirdly, even if all that didn't hold true, who ever said the CS Nerual Mace didn't exert power on the MD scale, (other than Doom that is, and he's hardly a canon authority)? If you'll take a look at the current configuration as presented in the 4th edition of the RGMG, you see that not only does it not use conventional E-Clips, but also only gets eight ( 8 ) zaps per. If you compare that to other weapons that have similar payloads you'll see them hitting in the 5D6MD-plus range. That's a lot of juice comming from the head of that mace... equivelant to a medium MD blast in intencity. As such, even if he were an MDC critter, though that may be enough to negate the effects of the lamer stun weapons (like those from Japan and such that have payloads ranging from 100 to effectively unlimited), but not the Coalition's big boy that was made for this kind of work. The CS Nerual Mace has been more than effective enough to make the Dog Packs patrolling the various 'Burbs a force to be feared, not laughed off by any critter with just a few points of natural MDC, (and let's face it, there are a lot of them).

Heh. Can you say, 'Slam Dunk'?

Agreed.

Swoosh

Thank you. Thank you very much. *takes a bow*

To get things straight:

1) Invulnerable characters brought into RIFTS have 700 MDC and Regenerate at 1D6x10 per minute. Also, the "Vulnerable only to Magic, Psionics, and Magic Weapons" still applies (radiation, poisoning and such still apply as well). His strength is considered "Superhuman for the purposes of lifting and carrying" so you could say he only has normal strength for the purposes of damage or not (GMs call)

Actually, their MDC is derived by combining their SDC and HP, so their mega damage capacity will vary. Also he's a massive regenerating critter now. Give the hero half an hour and he's maxed out again. As for their strength (that's a different conversion than Invulnerability's), if Mr. Hero has the minor super power of Superhuman Stength, in Rifts land it is concidered to be equivelent to Robotic Strength with way better lfit/carry multiples, and if he has the major power of Supernatural Strength then it's treated as any other supernatural PS stat.

[RainOfSteel]

As for their strength (that's a different conversion than Invulnerability's), if Mr. Hero has the minor super power of Superhuman Stength, in Rifts land it is concidered to be equivelent to Robotic Strength with way better lfit/carry multiples, and if he has the major power of Supernatural Strength then it's treated as any other supernatural PS stat.

Except that if we combine a number of super powers together, you will come much closer to a Super Hero that can wipe out the CS.

Two or three major and three or four minor powers . . . man, that would pack a whallop.

[Guest]

Well, if we wanted to get really dirty, the CS could simply get a CTX-54 "Fire Storm", fly over him, and turn off the hover feature. Thats 1250 tons of metal on him. He wouldn't even have an ounce of leverage to move his lungs, let alone even try to lift the machine. He'd be sitting there, pinned, probably peeing himself. Then he'd starve.

[Dead Boy]

As for their strength (that's a different conversion than Invulnerability's), if Mr. Hero has the minor super power of Superhuman Stength, in Rifts land it is concidered to be equivelent to Robotic Strength with way better lfit/carry multiples, and if he has the major power of Supernatural Strength then it's treated as any other supernatural PS stat.

Except that if we combine a number of super powers together, you will come much closer to a Super Hero that can wipe out the CS.

Two or three major and three or four minor powers . . . man, that would pack a whallop.

Unlikely as a snowball's chance in hell. You wouldn't even need to go to the lengths Res Sin Kai suggested with the Fire Storm (which is really slow and thus would be hard to get over Mr. Hero). Just get a couple of CTX-50 Line Backer hover tanks to blast him with a few volleys of Plasma MRMs. First wave of missiles alone would hit him for 1,120 MD, which is more than enough to reduce him to a crimson smear on the ground. Should he use his Laser Vision to successfully shoot one of the volley's down, then the other one will still get him for 560 MD which should hit him with enough force to cause Knock Back and cost him a melee action. What will keep him off balance long enough for the second wave of missiles to finish him off.

So against those odds (and that's not going to great lengths either given Mr. Hero's rep) he would be misted in about 6 seconds. Ooh... I'm shaking in my boots. :fraz:

[RainOfSteel]

Well, if we wanted to get really dirty, the CS could simply get a CTX-54 "Fire Storm", fly over him, and turn off the hover feature. Thats 1250 tons of metal on him. He wouldn't even have an ounce of leverage to move his lungs, let alone even try to lift the machine. He'd be sitting there, pinned, probably peeing himself. Then he'd starve.

Dodge.

[Guest]

Unlikely as a snowball's chance in hell. You wouldn't even need to go to the lengths Res Sin Kai suggested with the Fire Storm (which is really slow and thus would be hard to get over Mr. Hero). Just get a couple of CTX-50 Line Backer hover tanks to blast him with a few volleys of Plasma MRMs. First wave of missiles alone would hit him for 1,120 MD, which is more than enough to reduce him to a crimson smear on the ground. Should he use his Laser Vision to successfully shoot one of the volley's down, then the other one will still get him for 560 MD which should hit him with enough force to cause Knock Back and cost him a melee action. What will keep him off balance long enough for the second wave of missiles to finish him off.

So against those odds (and that's not going to great lengths either given Mr. Hero's rep) he would be misted in about 6 seconds. Ooh... I'm shaking in my boots. :fraz:

Well, he's pretty much immune to normal weapons, so none of that would hurt him. But, if you go to my post before that one, read that long section, you'll see that Special Forces tactics are more then enough to handle this guy.

[Daniel Stoker]

Well, he's pretty much immune to normal weapons, so none of that would hurt him. But, if you go to my post before that one, read that long section, you'll see that Special Forces tactics are more then enough to handle this guy.

Just have a UAR enforcer sit on him... what is he going to do then?




Daniel Stoker

[Gomen_Nagai]

the final form of invulnerability has him as not invincible. And pretty much killable by The CS with their current Assets.


now if you want unkillable


APS Light, Energy Absoprtion, Energy Channeling
Impervious to Magic, Impervious to Psionics.

This Character while in light form, is undefeatable until you drag him down with Shadow Magic. ... and then capable of dealing unbelievable amounts of damage to what EVER the CS throws at him.

[Dead Boy]

Well, he's pretty much immune to normal weapons, so none of that would hurt him.

Well, that pretty much depends on which of the conversion rules you chose to ignore for the purposes of this guy. If he get full and true invilnerability, (made for an SDC world, not an MDC one), sure, he's untouchable. But by going with that line of logic then he shouldn't get any of the other conversions either, meaning that all his super attacks should also be limited to that of the HU world. Meaning he's punching and shooting SDC, and would be completely reliant on the handheld small arms of Rifts Earth. That would make him a nisance, not the great leader who's capable of single handedly taking down the CS.

And besides which, for the reasons stated above, I still say a few wacks fron a CS Neural Mace will drop him like a brick.

[RainOfSteel]

APS Light, Energy Absoprtion, Energy Channeling
Impervious to Magic, Impervious to Psionics.

Like I said, combining multiple powers would pack quite a whallop.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well, he's pretty much immune to normal weapons, so none of that would hurt him.

Well, that pretty much depends on which of the conversion rules you chose to ignore for the purposes of this guy. If he get full and true invilnerability, (made for an SDC world, not an MDC one), sure, he's untouchable. But by going with that line of logic then he shouldn't get any of the other conversions either, meaning that all his super attacks should also be limited to that of the HU world. Meaning he's punching and shooting SDC, and would be completely reliant on the handheld small arms of Rifts Earth. That would make him a nisance, not the great leader who's capable of single handedly taking down the CS.

And besides which, for the reasons stated above, I still say a few wacks fron a CS Neural Mace will drop him like a brick.

The CB1 and Scraypers conversions still have him invulnerable to all the same stuff.

[GundamChief]

Wow... what a long thread.

I wonder why the character is taking the CS head on at all, that's just pure stupidity! Especially if the character is a native of Rifts Earth, because then he knows he's screwed.

Not really rooting for the Invulnerable character, but wouldn't it be easier for him to just sneak into the burbs with a nuke strapped to his back
Oh wait, nukes aren't available . Though that'd be the way to do it, but since Chi-town is made to withstand Nuclear bombardment his efforts would be in Vain (Devil Laugh).

A team of nukers, ummm... I honestly don't know. I'd wonder how they got ahold of so many, as opposed to how they will use them.

Anyways....

[Killer Cyborg]

I'ld go for a speed/intangible combo. Zoom in, through the walls, off anyone important (high level military officers, anyone with a surname starting with "P" etc.) zoom off. Still a CS but no missing its leadership. Remove the head and the body will die. Not sure exactly what powers, but along those lines.

Or, you kill Karl and an even more unstable and psychotic dictator takes over. Yes, it's possible...take a look at SOT 1 under the Orb of Solomon thing for more information on this kind of idea.

"Shoot the dictator and prevent the war? But the dictator is merely the tip of the festering boil of social pus from which dictators emerge; shoot one, and they'll be another along in a minute. Shoot him too? Why not shoot everyone and invade Poland?"
-Terry Pratchet

[Gomen_Nagai]

I vote We invade Poland!

[Dead Boy]

Well, he's pretty much immune to normal weapons, so none of that would hurt him.

Well, that pretty much depends on which of the conversion rules you chose to ignore for the purposes of this guy. If he get full and true invilnerability, (made for an SDC world, not an MDC one), sure, he's untouchable. But by going with that line of logic then he shouldn't get any of the other conversions either, meaning that all his super attacks should also be limited to that of the HU world. Meaning he's punching and shooting SDC, and would be completely reliant on the handheld small arms of Rifts Earth. That would make him a nisance, not the great leader who's capable of single handedly taking down the CS.

And besides which, for the reasons stated above, I still say a few wacks fron a CS Neural Mace will drop him like a brick.

The CB1 and Scraypers conversions still have him invulnerable to all the same stuff.

So? If he goes by the CB1 rules then he's really no tougher than a 'Borg in the MDC department. If he somehow keeps his HU blanket coverage immunity to all damaging attacks, then he still takes half the effects from attacks designed to debilitate and not damage, which is the category that the CS Neural Mace would fall under.

[RainOfSteel]

I vote We invade Poland!

"Let's blame Poland! Let's blame Poland!"

Wait. That's doesn't sound right. :/

[Killer Cyborg]

The CB1 and Scraypers conversions still have him invulnerable to all the same stuff.

So? If he goes by the CB1 rules then he's really no tougher than a 'Borg in the MDC department. If he somehow keeps his HU blanket coverage immunity to all damaging attacks, then he still takes half the effects from attacks designed to debilitate and not damage, which is the category that the CS Neural Mace would fall under.

I agree that a neural mace would affect him.
You were sounding like you thought that an invulnerable character in Rifts lost is flat-out imperviousness to most attacks and got 700 MDC instead... but he gets both.
He's the equivilant of a full conversion Borg (in heavy armor, without penalties) that is also impervious to most attacks.
And he regenerates.

He'd be tough to kill, but it could and would be done.

[Dead Boy]

You were sounding like you thought that an invulnerable character in Rifts lost is flat-out imperviousness to most attacks and got 700 MDC instead... but he gets both.
He's the equivilant of a full conversion Borg (in heavy armor, without penalties) that is also impervious to most attacks.
And he regenerates.

He'd be tough to kill, but it could and would be done.

That all depends on how you interpert the line, "all other aspects remain the same". To me it seemed like the "invulnerable to normal attacks" was commuted to "SDC+HP=MDC". You seem to be reading it as the two going together insted of one turning into the other. I don't see it that way.

[Killer Cyborg]

You were sounding like you thought that an invulnerable character in Rifts lost is flat-out imperviousness to most attacks and got 700 MDC instead... but he gets both.
He's the equivilant of a full conversion Borg (in heavy armor, without penalties) that is also impervious to most attacks.
And he regenerates.

He'd be tough to kill, but it could and would be done.

That all depends on how you interpert the line, "all other aspects remain the same". To me it seemed like the "invulnerable to normal attacks" was commuted to "SDC+HP=MDC". You seem to be reading it as the two going together insted of one turning into the other. I don't see it that way.

In a SDC world, the Invulnerability power makes the character invulnerabls AND provides extra SDC. In an MDC setting, it still makes the character invulnerable AND provides extra MDC.

Scraypers, p. 151
"An Impressive Power that makes the character an almost indestructable juggernaut. Most physical attacks do no damage whatsoever! This means cold, fire, heat, electricity, lasers, other types of energy, bullets, punches, falls, and so on, do no damage!"

and

"700 MDC and regenerates 1d6x10 MDC every minute..."

[Toc Rat]

This thread is still going?

Yeh cought me by suprise too today

In what way? Hopefully a good one

[Guest]

*Steps on the thread's throat, and shoves a TX-500 Rail Gun in it's mouth, tapes down the trigger, mounts it on a tri-pod, and flicks the safety off.

Let. This. Thread. Die.

[Killer Cyborg]

*Steps on the thread's throat, and shoves a TX-500 Rail Gun in it's mouth, tapes down the trigger, mounts it on a tri-pod, and flicks the safety off.

Let. This. Thread. Die.

If you did THAT to an invulnerable character, it could well kill him... simply by choking him on railgun rounds.

On othe other hand, threads do not need to breathe.