How can I convert MDC weapons to the PF world?

[sinestus]

IMO...

the way i've always done it was:

MDC weapons ignore AR... period...
even the natural AR of monsters...

the only AR they don't ignore is magical AR, (as in Armor of Ithan and the like) to which they deal double damage (the whole technology opposing magic thing)

[Nekira Sudacne]

here's one of my favorite senarios. . .

on the way to a battle in which the CS has to take out a fair-sized magic-using town, a fully equiped and stocked CS Deaths Head Transports has to cross a ley line but gets sucked though a random Rift to somewhere in the Western Empire.

but due to some demensional anomally, their equipment is NOT converted at all but still do and have MDC like normal

not much for combat fun . . . but can you imagine the looks on their faces when all the magic they fear so much suddnely isn't nearly so bad?

and the first time they encounter an adult dragon will be a hoot.

"sir. . . why did that dragon die in the first volley sir. . ."

"good question Corprol. . . I think we just got really, really lucky"

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

for me, It doesn't get changed.

you now have a group a raging juganouts in an SDC world with very limited ammo.
if they are anywhere near good alignment, when the 1st vilage get destroyed from colateral damage they will keep themselves under control and attact every big bad this side of the land of the damned.

it should make for good role playing fun.

[sinestus]

i dunno..
seems way too muchkin to me that way...

i thought the reason MDC existed on Rifts earth was the obsenely large amout of PPE ambient to the area...

as for vaporising the area around...
you do realize that in Rifts the average town isn't MDC right...
that the average hero's pocket knife can cut a house in half?

[Nekira Sudacne]

i dunno..
seems way too muchkin to me that way...

i thought the reason MDC existed on Rifts earth was the obsenely large amout of PPE ambient to the area...

only magic and psionics are MDC because of that.

remember, Glitter Boys and SAMAS were deveolded MDC material BEFORE the cataclysem when there was Vitrually NO PPE around, thanks to Atlantises flubbed experiment.

[Rpgpunk]

I wouldn't allow MDC in an SDC world, not PF anyways.

If I were playing anything else I'd say yes.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Lets see....MDC weapons..to convert them to an SDC setting would make them to be "Indistructable"

Now...If you mean MD weapondry, then you take off the M and replace it with an S, and then ask your GM if it ignores AR, or even works.

Ok that was answering the question as per the 'convertion book standard'.

This is the convertion table I made up awhile ago. I based it off the differences between the SNPS tables.


1d4md-------------------------->2d6sd
1d6md-------------------------->3d4sd
2d6md-------------------------->3d6sd/
3d6md-------------------------->4d6sd
4d6md-------------------------->5d6sd
5d6md------------------------->6d6sd
6d6md------------------------->1d4x10sd
1d4x10md-------------------->1d6x10sd
1d6x10md-------------------->2d4x10sd
2d4x10md-------------------->2d6x10sd
2d6x10md-------------------->3d6x10sd

[The Immortal ME]

First, take a gallon of kerosene and pour it all over the character sheets (and preferably yourself, as well). Light and enjoy.

[sinestus]

First, take a gallon of kerosene and pour it all over the character sheets (and preferably yourself, as well). Light and enjoy.

... not really useful...

and really, without official stats on Golden Age earth,
there's still the possibility that magic had recovered by then...

perhaps the ambient PPE of GAE was high enough that psis were potent... we do know that the Calibre-X (or whatever Arty's sword in England) was a feared weapon, and does MDC...
this would sugest the PSI sword powering it could do MDC....
thus... High PPE

short of robotech (which has MDC dealing wizards, and thus, arguably High PPE) there arn't a whole lotta worlds we can look at with MDC but without magic...

[Borast]

The way I'd simply handle it is to multiply all damage by 10 (so a pulse laser would do 1D6x100 damage with a triple shot pulse).

[dark brandon]

While being rifted he is caught in a ley line storm. His armor is mostly in tact, but chuncked up. AR of 14, but has 400 sdc (or whatever the MDC x 100 was). Unfortunatly, this world does not have the material components nessissary to fix it. His weapons are fine, (doing MDC x 100 in sdc) as well as the eclip in it, but any other eclips have been cracked and damaged. This world does not have the material components to repair it unfortunatly. While he has an upper hand in this world for the moment, too many recless battles will eat up his armor and drain his ammo (which cannot be repaired, they just don't have the technology for it).

[Cranus]

I'd do one of three things:

1) It doesn't get allowed into my PF game.
2) The MDC properties get weakened to an SDC state.
3) A tale of MDC tech in a SDC world. Shortly, thereafter, the game ends.

[Rayven]

My answer: NO.

Last time I checked, PF had no guns, thus a Rifts Rail Gun (or the like) would likely be confiscated immediately, if not sooner, once the party stepped through the rift. As for swords and other "ancient" style weapons, I'd go a straight dice conversion, MDC=SDC. I just have a HUGE problem allowing guns in PF. If it were HU2, I'd have less of a problem, but PF isn't HU2.

[Tinker Dragoon]

Last time I checked, PF had no guns

Actually it does (PFRPG2e, p. 60), though they are almost exclusively the creations/treasure of alchemists and dimensional travelers.

[Rayven]

Last time I checked, PF had no guns

Actually it does (PFRPG2e, p. 60), though they are almost exclusively the creations/treasure of alchemists and dimensional travelers.

I had forgotten about the alchemist stuff, as I know nobody IRL who play's an alchemist. That, and I usually go by 1st ed rules anyhow, unless I am bringing something in to another game (since 2E tend to convert more easily)

[sinestus]

I'd do one of three things:

3) A tale of MDC tech in a SDC world. Shortly, thereafter, the game ends.

ok.. two questions...

1. if MDC can exist without the high PPE, why are there no natural MDC structures (mountains and the like)....


2. what happens if you aim a MDC weapon at the ground and pull the trigger?... could you blast your way to the "mantle" and cause vulcanic activity?


finally...
you want an easy solution?
decree all in PF is MDC... so now, the humans what thought their powered armors were an edge, are stuck in an ironman like state, where living outside the armor is a hazard, 'cause anything hit's 'em the wrong way and they vaporize...

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is also the WP Modern Weapons (guns!) on page 60 of the PF2 main book. But it dose warn aginst the ephemoral nature of the weapons in the PF setting. Not being able to replace ammo, un-able to recharge it, and being un-repaireable.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I'd do one of three things:

3) A tale of MDC tech in a SDC world. Shortly, thereafter, the game ends.

ok.. two questions...

1. if MDC can exist without the high PPE, why are there no natural MDC structures (mountains and the like)....

I dunno, why isn't there any naturally forming plasitc? mountans just have millions of SDC.

2. what happens if you aim a MDC weapon at the ground and pull the trigger?... could you blast your way to the "mantle" and cause vulcanic activity?

no, there is a range limit. air resistance will stop rail guns and particle beams after long enough. ground will do it faster.

you will have a deep crater though.

[The Immortal ME]

Common, how about just one quart of kerosene, then?

[sinestus]

ok... so we need to figure out...
is there an MDC world without MDC dealing magic or psionics?

unless we can prove MDC can exist without MDC psychics/Magic, we cannot prove the disconnection of the two.

[drewkitty ~..~]

1. if MDC can exist without the high PPE, why are there no natural MDC structures (mountains and the like)....

2. what happens if you aim a MDC weapon at the ground and pull the trigger?... could you blast your way to the "mantle" and cause vulcanic activity?

finally...
you want an easy solution?
decree all in PF is MDC... so now, the humans what thought their powered armors were an edge, are stuck in an ironman like state, where living outside the armor is a hazard, 'cause anything hit's 'em the wrong way and they vaporize...

1.Because until there is high PPE, all MDC strutures would be manmade or occurring in the extremes of natural phenomena. Since a habitual world is in definition does not form in the exteams of natural phenomena.
2. technichly yes but it would take more then a rifle or any other MD 'small arms' to do so.

extra. That would make PF into rifts (where chars live in their armor), distroying the fanticy setting.

[Ice Dragon]

IIRC, M.D. weapons do not appear in the PF setting (some kind of dimensional anomality - state in one of the books, do not ask me where I found it).

M.D. weapons are "transformed" into S.D.C. magical weapons, so a rune sword with 4D6 M.D. would become a 4D6 S.D.C. rune sword.

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

you would be looking for the convertion book on MDC being converted to SDC by some dimentional anomaly.

Rune weapons are magic, like holy weapons and thus do SDC in PPE low environs like PF.

there is reference to the damage MDC weapons do to the planet in Robotech, where starship weapons leave very large craters 100's of ft deep.
an MDC rift or pistol will only blast small ish holes. no matter what world or rule you apply. Rift earth, the planet is not an MDC structure.

I like the idea of having MDC in an SDC world. but with provisions.
the plot should have the players fighting a constant battle against resources. what they have has to last them untill they can get off world, which could be years. it would be supremely sad if PC's could pop in and out to reload, if PC's could do it whats to stop others?
Magic that effects structure, like melt metal still do MDC to MDC armour, it's the funky nature of magic.
players will think they can play at being gods, alignments will effect this and will come under the heading of the GM trusting that the PCs can play in character.
and lastly consequesnces. colateral damage and reputation will conpire against the PC's and may even lead to them depleting their finite ammo even faster.

in a good campagn this sort of drama can make for good RPG but it can degenerate in to the ultimate munchkin experience, GMs need a handle on things.

[Borast]

Last time I checked, PF had no guns

Actually it does (PFRPG2e, p. 60), though they are almost exclusively the creations/treasure of alchemists and dimensional travelers.

I had forgotten about the alchemist stuff, as I know nobody IRL who play's an alchemist. That, and I usually go by 1st ed rules anyhow, unless I am bringing something in to another game (since 2E tend to convert more easily)

Actually...fireworks, while rare, are present on the PF world, so...guess what. This means they have black power (aka gunpowder).
It is only a matter of a short time before some genius comes up with the idea for a brass or bronze barrel for his fireworks. He's just created a re-usable mortar. It's only a step or two (and a fatal accident or two) from there to hand-held fireworks launcher. Once that is created, someone will be accidentally "shot" by a "roman candle," and someone will go "hmmm."
The next simple step will be cannon, then matchlock rifles and pistols, and the fire arms race is off and running.

Besides, the Tinkerer seems to be very popular, and it is only a matter of time before Kevin makes it canon.

(As for alchemists, they are listed as a strictly NPC class, so outside of a really bizarre game, off limits.)

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

I like Bill C slant in Library of Bletherad. why investigate technology when magic is there and able to be used, now.

fireworks like those seen at Bilbo's Birthday are a probable reality in PF.

tinkerers are freaks, fringe dwellers. but a valid optional OCC.

[Tinker Dragoon]

tinkerers are freaks, fringe dwellers. but a valid optional OCC.

What book are the tinkerer occ in?

Rifter #10.

[Nekira Sudacne]

ok... so we need to figure out...
is there an MDC world without MDC dealing magic or psionics?

unless we can prove MDC can exist without MDC psychics/Magic, we cannot prove the disconnection of the two.

Robotech. no magic. no psionis. MDC mecha

[Nekira Sudacne]

ok... so we need to figure out...
is there an MDC world without MDC dealing magic or psionics?

unless we can prove MDC can exist without MDC psychics/Magic, we cannot prove the disconnection of the two.

Robotech. no magic. no psionis. MDC mecha

Actually according to "The Sentinels" both MDC Magic and Psionics are out there, they are however in the hands of aliens. A legitimate point otherwise.

point. how's this:

Macross II RPG. no magic, no psionics. MDC Mecha and it's it's own RPG. [/quote]

[drewkitty ~..~]

Theru....whats the matter? That was only 1/2 a giga post.

[sinestus]

.. .outta all the MDC settings one has no magic in the rules...

an exception, not the rule, seems to me.. .

just means magic hasn't been ID'd in that world yet...


what proof we need of MDC and MDC level of Magic being dis-connected is a world where magic deals SDC while MDC tech still exists...

otherwise, we have no evidance that MDC can exist without high PPE

[dark brandon]

:roll: ...MDC weapons on a SDC world, oh boy! Suddenly you're the new powerhouse on the block! The world is yours!!!

Seriously though, for MDC-SDC conversion for PFRPG, we've always played it as straight conversion. A weapon that does 1D6 MDC on Rifts earth would do 1D6 SDC on Palladia. Chalk it up to how physics works in that particular dimension (don't worry too much about the MDC-PPE connection). Otherwise, things get way too sketchy. Now, if you're running a munchkin campaign, I'd say go for it... otherwise it's way too unbalancing to have MDC weapons functioning as MDC weapons in an SDC environment... (gotta love those well thought out and perfectly tuned game system mechanics, wow... Kev and the boys should get metals for this stuff!)

Depends on how you play it.

Even if you leave it at MDC levels, unless you have a bunch of eclips handy you'll eventually run out. Then you're really screwed. A world like palladium doesn't offer the tech/parts needed to recharge something like that. A techno-wizard item would be downgraded to SDC, and thus anything he builds to recharge an eclip wouldn't be strong enough. A normal mechanic wouldn't have the parts available to build something like that, even if he knew how. With a weapon that does 3d6x100 sdc is sweet, with only 8 blasts, you'll have to use it sparingly. Do you fire into the goblins that are advancing or do you save it and pull out the vibro-blade that has only a 1 hour charge on it?

MDC armor is MDC x 100 = the sdc. WHile you may have something with 1000 sdc, it can't be repaired and chances are the characters have no money and equipment so this works out alright for a bit.

Power armor/robots would be the biggest problem because of their long life exectancy and huge armor speed...ect...If you plan on warping them, I'd try to find a way to have them either leave the armor behind or have it destoryed/made unusable after going through the rift.

You can do this straight transfer if drop your heros in a place like mt. nimro or in the damned lands someplace where they will have to travel around for a long time to reach civilization or anything like it, and by that time they would have little to no eclips left, and armor widdled down to near 0. Having random enemies attack them constantly, villages (smaller ones without mages) fight them *cause they dont' have the tongues spell and I believe it's been said that common and english are not the same*...so they would have no way to communicate...run in with super-powerful dragons and stuff that want these otherworldy weapons...In the short time, they will have made a name for themselves, unfortunatly, they will not have the power to stand up to that name they've made.

[Ice Dragon]

:roll: ...MDC weapons on a SDC world, oh boy! Suddenly you're the new powerhouse on the block! The world is yours!!!

Seriously though, for MDC-SDC conversion for PFRPG, we've always played it as straight conversion. A weapon that does 1D6 MDC on Rifts earth would do 1D6 SDC on Palladia. Chalk it up to how physics works in that particular dimension (don't worry too much about the MDC-PPE connection). Otherwise, things get way too sketchy. Now, if you're running a munchkin campaign, I'd say go for it... otherwise it's way too unbalancing to have MDC weapons functioning as MDC weapons in an SDC environment... (gotta love those well thought out and perfectly tuned game system mechanics, wow... Kev and the boys should get metals for this stuff!)

The Rifts megaversal Builder has good role for this kind of problems. There is also the node for straight forward conversion MDC to SDC on Palladia and another, that the weapon does not work at all (something about energy matrix).

[SkyeFyre]

I would have to say that I would leave MDC be MDC. I see MDC not as being some sort of special ability or awesome force brought on by the rifts, but more as a measurement of something's strength. Magic has become more powerful on RIFTS earth. But I believe it has nothing to do with technology.

It makes sense if you think about it. Take an example from the main rule book that's talking about a tank and people shooting at it, or throwing rocks at it. Since it is heavily armored unless they are some heavy duty rounds, or boulders, it's not going to damage the tank. So to me I see this as an example of real life MDC.

MDC (To me anyways) is more of an incredibly high AR, or a measurement of something's strength. I might have been taking things the wrong way, but it seems that by the way you're talking that all of a sudden, things became stronger for some reason. The reason (Once again, to me anyways) that, RIFTS is considered an MDC world, is because of the environment, what is in it. It's not the world itself that defines if it is MDC but that much of what happens in there, is MDC, or just incredibly powerful. I doubt that Glitterboys were SDC before the coming of the rifts, or that tanks were able to be beaten by simply running up and kicking them.

So to me I would allow MDC as MDC in any world, it'd even out because as many people have stated on here before; They would run out of ammunition, or get slowly worn down and would have no way of replacing their equipment. They would have to be wise and plan things out.

You could do something like allowing it and then say when they decide to get washed up or if they take it off for some reason, have some lil thief or something, being fascinated grab and run. Then they might end up having to try and get it back, and think, if that guy wants his stuff back, he may want to try and get it back without ruining it.

But yeah... enough
./END RANT

[GundamChief]

ugh.

just double the damage or make it do x10 damage and ignore A.R.
that makes them just as powerful as they are in rifts in essence.

Armor, either double the MDC (Now SDC) or make it x10 as well, that way you are not going out of bounds, while still keeping the feel of a walking juggernaut.

[sinestus]

right...
been thinking about it...

how's this...

rift opens,
MDC guys step into new world...
in the opening melee action, the ground they're standing on turns to deep, deep mud, then 4 walls of stone suddenly box them in, and final a fifth drops from above shoving them all into the mud...
the mud... jams their weapons, makeing them useless, then returns to normal earth as the spell expires...

leaving the would-be assailants burrined under a slab of stone deep underground by the cadre of earth warlocks brought to this place by a divine prophecy predicting the arrival of one of a great threat to the world...

warlocks go out for a snack,
mdc packers left trying to figure a way out of their living grave... assuming one doesn't detonate from some kinda armor malfunction, and takes the others with 'im...

[Killer Cyborg]

MDC guys step into new world...
in the opening melee action, the ground they're standing on turns to deep, deep mud, then 4 walls of stone suddenly box them in, and final a fifth drops from above shoving them all into the mud...
the mud... jams their weapons, makeing them useless, then returns to normal earth as the spell expires...

leaving the would-be assailants burrined under a slab of stone deep underground by the cadre of earth warlocks brought to this place by a divine prophecy predicting the arrival of one of a great threat to the world...

warlocks go out for a snack,
mdc packers left trying to figure a way out of their living grave... assuming one doesn't detonate from some kinda armor malfunction, and takes the others with 'im...

Decent plan, assuming that the warlocks knew what they were up against and/or just sat around rifts waiting to attack whatever came through...

1. The mud wouldn't jam the weapons.
2. Armor detonating from mud? Uh, no... and robots don't explode if you present them with a paradox either. You've been watching too much bad sci-fi.
3. What sort of snack?
In medieval worlds, I like Meat-On-A-Stick.
mmmmmm....

[sinestus]

Decent plan, assuming that the warlocks knew what they were up against and/or just sat around rifts waiting to attack whatever came through...

1. The mud wouldn't jam the weapons.
2. Armor detonating from mud? Uh, no... and robots don't explode if you present them with a paradox either. You've been watching too much bad sci-fi.
3. What sort of snack?
In medieval worlds, I like Meat-On-A-Stick.
mmmmmm....

warlocks know 'cause, again, divine prophecy or some such...
perhaps a wandering atlantean warned and trained 'em...

weapons jam kinda depends on how thin the mud is... if the weapons arn't treated for underwater use, they'd prolly short from very thin mud...

armor malfunction would be from something like a player trying to eject while the mud's solidifying...
or a "little mud mount" elemental cralwing into the vehicle's exhaust and farking with the stuff inside...


as for snackage... meat-on-a-stick works...
or they have their mud elementals swipe the food supplies from the incoming invaders or something...

[dark brandon]

warlocks know 'cause, again, divine prophecy or some such...
perhaps a wandering atlantean warned and trained 'em...

weapons jam kinda depends on how thin the mud is... if the weapons arn't treated for underwater use, they'd prolly short from very thin mud...

armor malfunction would be from something like a player trying to eject while the mud's solidifying...
or a "little mud mount" elemental cralwing into the vehicle's exhaust and farking with the stuff inside...


as for snackage... meat-on-a-stick works...
or they have their mud elementals swipe the food supplies from the incoming invaders or something...

That's a rather forced event. Forced events are boring and can create unrest in a group. I know I would feel cheated if I was gaming and the GM WANTED to bring us to palladium world and pulled that stunt. We started playing rifts for a reason, and to forcefully remove that reason from game play, with out at least a chance to keep it is boring. I came to live a story, not be told one.

[SkyeFyre]

warlocks know 'cause, again, divine prophecy or some such...
perhaps a wandering atlantean warned and trained 'em...

weapons jam kinda depends on how thin the mud is... if the weapons arn't treated for underwater use, they'd prolly short from very thin mud...

armor malfunction would be from something like a player trying to eject while the mud's solidifying...
or a "little mud mount" elemental cralwing into the vehicle's exhaust and farking with the stuff inside...


as for snackage... meat-on-a-stick works...
or they have their mud elementals swipe the food supplies from the incoming invaders or something...

That's a rather forced event. Forced events are boring and can create unrest in a group. I know I would feel cheated if I was gaming and the GM WANTED to bring us to palladium world and pulled that stunt. We started playing rifts for a reason, and to forcefully remove that reason from game play, with out at least a chance to keep it is boring. I came to live a story, not be told one.

amen

[sinestus]

i'll bend to that...

you could leave the players alive at the end... i was just presenting a quick / clean way to strip the players of their over-powered MDC statted gear...

i guess the "why" for the characters going from rifts to palladium is kinda the important part.. .

if it's to have them try to survive a primative and alien world... stripping them of their god-like powers would prolly be a good thing (IMO) and thus some method of disabling their MDC gear would be useful...

however, if they were "heroes" chasing some greater evil thru the Rifts who ound up in Palladium, then leaving the MDC power would add an interesting twist,
as now they have the power of the gods, but are driven to protect the locals from an evil beyond local power...
so not only do they have to keep the big evil MDC enemy from obliterating large parts of the world, but they have to restrain themselves so they don't do the same...