Splugorth Minions

[Warshield73]

In working on the Splugorth I have been thinking about their minions. We really only have a description for Splyncryth’s minions and so far all the others are just copies of him. DB 14 has one additional minion race that seems unique to Desslyth but other than that all the other Splugorth seem to just copy paste Splyncryth. They are divided broadly between Elite and Standard with Sunaj and Slaves at the bottom.

With this in mind what minions do you think would be common to all Splugorth.

Highlord - These guys are the top of the chart and to my thinking are common to all Splugorth as they are linked to them.

Conservator - Same species as HL so I think they are probably common to all Splugorth

Overlord / Powerlord - These are the Kydians who have served the Splugorth for over 50,000 years so again I think they are likley to be common to all.

Even Wothancrellyth from Conversion Book 2, pg. 170 who is the Splugorth that is impersonating Wotha has a Highlords and Kydians so I think these 2 or 4 are likely to be common to them.

Slavers - are the bottom of the Elite minions but I mainly see them used on Rifts Earth and they don’t seem to be as front and center in the Three Galaxies. Not sure if they are universal or not. I tend to say probably yes but...

The next tier of minions is 4 groups.
Kittani - Which is the hightech minion and to my mind are not universal. They are used by most of the Spugorth we know of but I think it is likely that there are Splugorth who have no need of hightech force or use another species for that especially for space fleets.

Metzlains - These psionic monsters are described as unruly and disloyal so I have to imagine there are a number of Spluforth who don’t bother with them or maybe even wiped them all out in a rage.

Dragons - I think every Splugorth probably has some dragons working for them so sure, but the speicies would likely vary.

Maxi-Men are the last of this tier and general tattooed men are on the next. As there are so few species that can use tattoo magic I think it’s likely that they are not universal.

The rest of this tier and the next are fairly generic.
I think all Splugorth likely have supernatural allies but probably not all have gargoyles.

Blind Warriors are ones that I think are definately not universal. I like the idea of see Slaver barges with other minions on them for different Splugorth so I think it would be cooler if they weren’t common but I have no other reason.

Sunaj are another that I think some Splugorth don’t bother with or maybe aren’t big enough to warrant them.

I’m also wondering if the hierarchy is universal for all splugorth or it varries between different Splugorth.

Just curious if anyone has thought about this.

[taalismn]

I created tables for generating random Splugorth minions, their relationship to the Big Eyeball, and sub-charts with regards to Kittani and Sunaj presence. Does that count?

[Warshield73]

I created tables for generating random Splugorth minions, their relationship to the Big Eyeball, and sub-charts with regards to Kittani and Sunaj presence. Does that count?

Yeah I remember that. What I am trying to figure out is which minions are used by all Splugorth so that when I make knew splugorth I have a starting point.

[Curbludgeon]

taalismn, I wanna see! I'll try searching after a nap, but if you have a link handy it'd be a nice thing to wake up to.

I figure all Splugorth are into Witches as minions, and agree that High Lords and Kydians are ubiquitous. Shadkan are primarily in Desslyth, but are probably found all over. Rulians aren't minions, but every kingdom has some.

[taalismn]

taalismn, I wanna see! I'll try searching after a nap, but if you have a link handy it'd be a nice thing to wake up to.

https://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewt ... n#p3149907

[Curbludgeon]

Noice!

[Shorty Lickens]

You could grab creatures from any of the books and say they are minions for other Splugorth. The three conversion books and D-bees of North America are good sources. And each dimension book has at least one new race.
But eventually you may wish to invent a new race or two to keep your campaign unique and interesting. The hardest part of making a new race isn't the stats or even the lore. The hardest part was making up some sketches so other people know what it looks like, and thanks to all the various A.I. image generators out there, that task is now easier.

[Warshield73]

You could grab creatures from any of the books and say they are minions for other Splugorth. The three conversion books and D-bees of North America are good sources. And each dimension book has at least one new race.
But eventually you may wish to invent a new race or two to keep your campaign unique and interesting. The hardest part of making a new race isn't the stats or even the lore. The hardest part was making up some sketches so other people know what it looks like, and thanks to all the various A.I. image generators out there, that task is now easier.

Absolutely. To me this goes to Dragons category or supernatural allies. I think there are some great options to replace gargoyles, metzlains and Blind-Warriors.

Creatures like Neuron Beasts, brodkil, or horune would probably be used by some splugorth. I coulld also see some splugorth using creatures from Dyval as opposed to Hades the way Splyncryth does.

I also think there might be older, more brutalist splugorth, who might use creatures like the Daemonix.

[taalismn]

Even Humans...find a world of humans being brutalized by another alien species, offer then help, and you can get them eating out of the palm of your hand/tentacle.....they'll need some work, like lots of biowizardry, but humans are incredibly adaptable and there's lots of 'em.

So A Splugorth with legions of loyal humans may seem to be low-end, but possible, and might be able to con other human nations into giving them the benefit of the doubt, rather than attacking them on sight.

[Warshield73]

Even Humans...find a world of humans being brutalized by another alien species, offer then help, and you can get them eating out of the palm of your hand/tentacle.....they'll need some work, like lots of biowizardry, but humans are incredibly adaptable and there's lots of 'em.

So A Splugorth with legions of loyal humans may seem to be low-end, but possible, and might be able to con other human nations into giving them the benefit of the doubt, rather than attacking them on sight.

I actually already have this in early planning. It is humans from another dimension that has died/dying (DB 7, pg. 25 Chaotic Space) and they are rescued by a youngish splugorth (only about 20,000 years old). It was a human world that went deep into...think the Nazis from Hellboy or Hydra from MCU and became a deeply segregated society with lots of dark magic, eugenics super powered people and of course psionics. They have space tech only slightly behind that of thCCW/TGE so they replace the entire lower 3 tiers of the hierarchy chart except dragons. I even have a mega-hero type that when they were independent ruled over all other humans but now are "overseers" occupying a space right next to the Slaver at the bottom of the elite classes. When I created this group it was with the idea that they would face them several times before finding out they were minions of a Splugorth.

For other Splugorth I wanted to get away from humans entirely which is why in a separate thread I was asking about any species that can use tattoo magic.

[taalismn]

I actually already have this in early planning. It is humans from another dimension that has died/dying (DB 7, pg. 25 Chaotic Space) and they are rescued by a youngish splugorth (only about 20,000 years old). It was a human world that went deep into...think the Nazis from Hellboy or Hydra from MCU and became a deeply segregated society with lots of dark magic, eugenics super powered people and of course psionics. They have space tech only slightly behind that of thCCW/TGE so they replace the entire lower 3 tiers of the hierarchy chart except dragons. I even have a mega-hero type that when they were independent ruled over all other humans but now are "overseers" occupying a space right next to the Slaver at the bottom of the elite classes. When I created this group it was with the idea that they would face them several times before finding out they were minions of a Splugorth.

My thought on reading this was 'Coalition States if the Proseks had become Splugorth Witches."

[Warshield73]

I actually already have this in early planning. It is humans from another dimension that has died/dying (DB 7, pg. 25 Chaotic Space) and they are rescued by a youngish splugorth (only about 20,000 years old). It was a human world that went deep into...think the Nazis from Hellboy or Hydra from MCU and became a deeply segregated society with lots of dark magic, eugenics super powered people and of course psionics. They have space tech only slightly behind that of thCCW/TGE so they replace the entire lower 3 tiers of the hierarchy chart except dragons. I even have a mega-hero type that when they were independent ruled over all other humans but now are "overseers" occupying a space right next to the Slaver at the bottom of the elite classes. When I created this group it was with the idea that they would face them several times before finding out they were minions of a Splugorth.

My thought on reading this was 'Coalition States if the Proseks had become Splugorth Witches."

Actually it started as, what if Bradford from Lonestar ran the CS (I had lots of mutant animals with bio-wizardry as henchmen) then it became what if Grigori Rasputin succeeded in releasing evil magic, took of the Nazis, won the war and went to space. I really wanted to change this to a different species as the Nazi thing is already covered in Rifts, but only humans can tattoo men so instead I am thinking about just making it religious (a cult of the old ones) and making them more Slavic or South Asian. Nazis are bad but there are plenty of evil villains in history.

[taalismn]

Still, I might have to make mention somewhere in the Megaverse of a Splugorth with minions wearing -familiar- skull-armor, with a headquarters in 'The Chi-town Pyramid'. (heck, I already have an alternate universe Good Splugorth, who are regarded as supernatural paragons of generosity, compassion, and virtue).

Thanks for the idea.

[Warshield73]

Still, I might have to make mention somewhere in the Megaverse of a Splugorth with minions wearing -familiar- skull-armor, with a headquarters in 'The Chi-town Pyramid'. (heck, I already have an alternate universe Good Splugorth, who are regarded as supernatural paragons of generosity, compassion, and virtue).

Thanks for the idea.

What I wanted was humans so evil and merciless that they actually shock some of the monsters. I had a scene in my mind where a Slaver has to remind the human mutants that he has in place of blind warriors that the idea is to capture slaves not slaughter everyone. This is one reason I was thinking they might be old one worshippers before splugie Hitler comes along. I was also thinking that the Splugorth lord would be just the most vile like maybe to the point other Splugorth won;t associate with him.

[Grazzik]

Hmm, an over the top Splugorth? How about one that has become a necromancer, wearing the body parts of other Splugorth for power? While at the same time, making their minions necromancers and slicing off parts of their own body (that regenerates) for the minions to wear? Perhaps some corrupted form of biowizardry / necromancy fusion...

Could adapt the rules in HoH re demon slayer reputation and demonic intimidation to figure out what would push a Splugorth's buttons. Maybe have some sort of rules around reputation or social status within Splugorth society generally. In fact a solid sets of rules on reputation overall would be good... is there is anything in PFRPG that could be adapted?

Re minions of more brutalist Splugorth, perhaps consider archaic chaos demons... indeed the worst Splugorth may have simply carved off the vilest or most depraved Old One minions when the OO's were imprisoned and recruited them for their own use. Maybe being influenced over time to meet or exceed the depravity of their minions. This is most likely in a case where the Splugorth is at risk from their powerful minions and must be the biggest and baddest to stay on top. Consider the power dynamics among demon lords in Hades as an example...

[taalismn]

Well, it's been suggested in some of the Rifter articles that the Splugorth had what amounted to civil wars that broke their relative unity.....Super-evil necromancer Spluggy may have been one of the factors and subsequently became a boogieman to the rest of the Splugorth...worsened by the fact that nobody knows if he's really dead*

*Yeah, you could have an Osiris-like myth that cultists are seeking out the dismembered parts of their Splugorth master to raise it again. Necromancers can be nasty like that.

[Warshield73]

Well, it's been suggested in some of the Rifter articles that the Splugorth had what amounted to civil wars that broke their relative unity.....Super-evil necromancer Spluggy may have been one of the factors and subsequently became a boogieman to the rest of the Splugorth...worsened by the fact that nobody knows if he's really dead*

*Yeah, you could have an Osiris-like myth that cultists are seeking out the dismembered parts of their Splugorth master to raise it again. Necromancers can be nasty like that.

Splugir civil war? What Rifter is that?

[taalismn]

Rifter #34, Samson Blackwell's 'The Maqui Knouldom'.
He has the Splugorth retaliating against the MK for cutting off their supplies of advanced FTL engines. The Splugorth glassed their homeworld, then turned on each other as their imperial networks fell apart.

[Curbludgeon]

A fun idea could be magic-using Monro (who as a rule don't), which whatever they're suspected to turn into if doing so being unknown outside that kingdom. One could go full on tentacle monster, but maybe weirdly cute would be a bigger surprise.

I never really cared for the Metzla. The Slavers are ok, but even in Atlantis they'd have a hard time integrating in society. The Staphra aren't bad, but Palladium does go to the strongly defined gender role well a lot.

[ShadowLogan]

I’m also wondering if the hierarchy is universal for all splugorth or it varries between different Splugorth.

We know from FotG that their is some flexibility in the hierarchy when the situation warrants it (pg69-70) as the Kittani rank just below Conservator (High Lord just above them, then the AI), BUT this only applies when the four 3G Kingdoms go into space.

What I am trying to figure out is which minions are used by all Splugorth so that when I make knew splugorth I have a starting point.

FotG hierarchy does suggest that the outline in WB2 is more universal. However, given established lore with the Kreeghor in the PW setting coupled with FotG I think it shows that:
A. It is possible for a candidate/full-fledged minion race to leave (while the Khreeghor rebelled, nothing really stops the Splugorth from "exhausting the soil" of a race either so it dies out)
B. there is some flexibility in the hierarchy for local use
C. we are looking at the hierarchy at a specific point in time, especially if one factors in the "new" minion candidate race in WB21
D. some tiers of minion status involve the use of "local" materials (Kreeghor), so I could see "natives" of some of the 3G Kingdom worlds showing up in service to them specifically
E. it's also possible some of these minion races are present in "uniformity" due to "trade" among the Splugorth AIs who might see utility of bringing in a "specialists" to round out their party. I see this more on the lower tiers than the upper

For other Splugorth I wanted to get away from humans entirely which is why in a separate thread I was asking about any species that can use tattoo magic.

One option here is that the tattoo magic these non-humans use is not "true" Atlantean Tattoo magic, but could be mistaken for it by less knowledgeable individuals. And there is some precedent for it (none are species restricted AFAIK):
-World Book 8 Japan (pg43) also in Book of Magic has "Tattoos of Strength" magic tattoo that are not connected to the Atlantean variety
-World Book 9 SA2 (pg26-40) also in Book of Magic has Nazca Line Magic (their Rune Warrior OCC might be mistaken, weather the/a Splugorth knows it...)
-in theory one might adapt Diaboist Wards as a "crude" form of Tattoo magic
-Danzi RCC from the Eastern Territories (PF line, I don't have this book so I cannot answer beyond that it exists as it came up on the forums at least once concerning importing Rifts T-magic to PF)

What I wanted was humans so evil and merciless that they actually shock some of the monsters.

I'm sure there are some monsters that are shocked by humans already, it's just a matter of which monsters you want shocked and what would shock them is likely not universal.

[taalismn]

[quote=ShadowLogan post_id=3160082 time=1747052847 user_id=11683
I'm sure there are some monsters that are shocked by humans already, it's just a matter of which monsters you want shocked and what would shock them is likely not universal.
[/quote]

..and they band up with the Splugorth for protection....

[Warshield73]

Rifter #34, Samson Blackwell's 'The Maqui Knouldom'.
He has the Splugorth retaliating against the MK for cutting off their supplies of advanced FTL engines. The Splugorth glassed their homeworld, then turned on each other as their imperial networks fell apart.

Thanks. After taking a quick look at it I vaguely remember reading it when it came out. Not a great plot point although, it does bring up some interesting ideas in terms of trade with other powers that aren't based on slaves. If anyone does a real description of the other 3 Splugorth kingdoms in the Three Galaxies it would be interesting to see who actually has dealings with the splugorth? I mean we probably have a few monster run star systems and world here and there plus the usual collection of pirates and slavers but what are some of the "legitimate" powers that trade with them. DB2 and Thundercloud don't give much in terms of foreign relations and the Anvil description of that kingdom makes them sound more like mustache twirlers then any kind of commerce. Splyncryth though is constatnly described as doing business with all sorts of kingdoms from around the world so in the future it would be cool to see who in the three galaxies does business with them and for what.

A fun idea could be magic-using Monro (who as a rule don't), which whatever they're suspected to turn into if doing so being unknown outside that kingdom. One could go full on tentacle monster, but maybe weirdly cute would be a bigger surprise.

I never really cared for the Metzla. The Slavers are ok, but even in Atlantis they'd have a hard time integrating in society. The Staphra aren't bad, but Palladium does go to the strongly defined gender role well a lot.

Interesting idea for the Monro but I always had a more greater old ones thing for them rather than simple minions of splugorth.

There is no minion I dislike, the metzla are cool and so tough players really have to step up their game to take them on and yes the gender roles is a staple of fantasy so it really bleeds into PB.

I'm sure there are some monsters that are shocked by humans already, it's just a matter of which monsters you want shocked and what would shock them is likely not universal.

..and they band up with the Splugorth for protection....

All of this is true and actually goes back to what I was saying earlier, what would make mortal governments willing to deal with the splugorth, or what would make the splugorth so desperate that they would deal with other groups on there own terms.

[taalismn]

All of this is true and actually goes back to what I was saying earlier, what would make mortal governments willing to deal with the splugorth, or what would make the splugorth so desperate that they would deal with other groups on there own terms.

"So how much are you willing to pay us to be your friend?"

[Shorty Lickens]

Keep in mind bio-borgs and other abominations are also favorite servants of the Splugorth. So you could roll up a couple standard types and mass produce them. Some would be bred for mining, others for space labor, some for fighting, others for spying.

[taalismn]

..underwater bio-borgs(except that I don't think you want to make b-borgs that are able to survive in environments that make it difficult to rein them in and which give them opportunity to escape.

[Warshield73]

All of this is true and actually goes back to what I was saying earlier, what would make mortal governments willing to deal with the splugorth, or what would make the splugorth so desperate that they would deal with other groups on there own terms.

"So how much are you willing to pay us to be your friend?"

It is easy to see a system, think sol in the Expanse, with a massive population that is unemployed, in that story "on basic", that they would be willing to sell into slavery in exchange for technology or magic to enrich its rulers or conquer its neighbors. If aliens are anything like real world humans it really isn't hard to imagine. What is hard to imagine is an independent state (world, system or cluster) who could deal with the Splugorth and not get hammered down by the CCW or TGE (depending on which one is in their neighborhood) or just eventually conquered by the Splugorth in question.

Keep in mind bio-borgs and other abominations are also favorite servants of the Splugorth. So you could roll up a couple standard types and mass produce them. Some would be bred for mining, others for space labor, some for fighting, others for spying.

I could definitely see this and it would make an interesting replacement for tattoo warriors for nonhuman subjects.

[Curbludgeon]

I'm not sure how I'd want to have Monro playing with their Great Old One association. Maybe some rogue magic practitioners fled to the UWW and presented themselves as a new species.

I suppose one of the big reasons I'm indifferent to the Metzla is some varieties having these images so complicated it's hard to see what's going on, spread across two pages so the crease messes things up. It's good to have some amount of 1000+MDC things floating around, of course.

I imagine the Kittani, Kydian, and High Lords are pretty ubiquitous across Splugorth Kingdoms, and there are tons of Witches and Tattooed classes drawn from slaves, I'd have the rest be up in the air.

[taalismn]

It is easy to see a system, think sol in the Expanse, with a massive population that is unemployed, in that story "on basic", that they would be willing to sell into slavery in exchange for technology or magic to enrich its rulers or conquer its neighbors. If aliens are anything like real world humans it really isn't hard to imagine. What is hard to imagine is an independent state (world, system or cluster) who could deal with the Splugorth and not get hammered down by the CCW or TGE (depending on which one is in their neighborhood) or just eventually conquered by the Splugorth in question.

"There is no 'half-way' dealing with the Splugorth....You're either in it all the way as an ally of theirs, or rather a tribute-paying satrapy, with us as an enemy....or you're against them. in which case you can expect occasional support from us, when we feel we have the resources to spare. Choose wisely."

[ShadowLogan]

All of this is true and actually goes back to what I was saying earlier, what would make mortal governments willing to deal with the splugorth, or what would make the splugorth so desperate that they would deal with other groups on there own terms.

Kydians and Kittani both where in dire straights and it was without Splugorth intervention that their races are even still around (Kittani being saved from extermination by the Mechanoids, the Kydians population growth without the technology to travel to other worlds), leading me to suspect that races can be desperate enough that they could join the Slugorth willing.

Now what the Splugorth get out of these "alliances" is personnel. In some respects the Splugorth are more like Star Trek's Dominion than Star Gate's Gaul'd IMHO in terms of how involved they are in terms of operations presence (Jaffa do carry Gaul'd, where the Jem Hadar and Vorta are the bulk of the personnel and the Changelings aren't present everywhere like the Goul'd essentially are). There might be better examples out there where the alien overlord(s) doesn't do as much and is dependent on "proxies" to carryout its/their will, but I can't think of any at the moment.

The Kreeghor show that the Splugorth might "nuture" a race for their own ends, though where they would have ended up (ultimately) in the hierarchy isn't known but DB2 establishes (DB3 doesn't add to this, haven't looked at DB5/6/13 for history):
-Kreeghor culture is 10,000 years old (pg73)
-"alien intelligences tried to support and nurture this savage race which they believed would make ideal warriors" (pg73)
-an AI, Kittani and Kydian, and Conservators are specifically mentioned as being part of the Spulgorth presence on the world (pg74)
-even though the Splugorth AI overseeing them is dead, other splugorth tried to reconquer them over 20years before giving up (pg74), though some half-hearted attempts seem to still happen given Imperial Homeworld was subject to attack by a Kittani fleet of 2,00 ships on a suicide mission (pg73)
-"Every thousand years (a total of four times so far), a Royal Kreeghor is chosen to become the new Emperor." (pg74)

This indicates the Kreeghor might have been on track to augment the Kittani (a known warrior race) and/or the Kydians, but likely where still in the lowest category (Slave per the WB2 hierarchy of minions) but this only lasted at best 7,000 years (since there have only been x4 Emperors, each with a 1,000 year rule and still under the 4th still IINM) maybe a bit older as the Splugorth are indirectly responsible for influencing their culture (text isn't clear if the 10k figure is natural or the start of the Splugorth intervention). What's interesting is that the Splugorth don't seem to have kept them anywhere but their homeworld, else they might still be present at some level in other S-Kingdoms in the 3G (or elsewhere) given other examples we have.

[taalismn]

Of course, there's always the -manufactured- crisis that drives a species to the edge...and then the Splugorth pop up just in the nick of time to play ugly angels rescuing the species from extinction....for which they pledge their allegiance.

Could be as simple as dropping an invasive species or somebody else's common cold virus on a planet via some innocent vector....

[Warshield73]

Of course, there's always the -manufactured- crisis that drives a species to the edge...and then the Splugorth pop up just in the nick of time to play ugly angels rescuing the species from extinction....for which they pledge their allegiance.

Could be as simple as dropping an invasive species or somebody else's common cold virus on a planet via some innocent vector....

This is all true but it is the opposite of what I was getting at and really goes to the heart of my last post. It is very easy to see, we have a ton of examples, how a species can be completely taken over by the splugorth. What is hard to imagine is one that trades with them yet stays free.

I think it is easier for non-state actors like pirates, mercenaries, and even the Free Worlds Council but what about an actual functioning government for a planet or a system, how do they do it?

[taalismn]

Either very ignorantly of who they're dealing with, or very carefully, because they know EXACTLY who they're dealing with...and ideally with a backup plan if things go sour(like a few secret colonies far away where a culture-in-exile can be established).

[Warshield73]

Either very ignorantly of who they're dealing with, or very carefully, because they know EXACTLY who they're dealing with...and ideally with a backup plan if things go sour(like a few secret colonies far away where a culture-in-exile can be established).

The thing is the Splugorth aren't Nxla or the Dweller, they're not even Vampire Intels. They are business men. They sell slaves and magic and anything else which means they need customers.

I think customers break down into a few groups:
Those that due to geography or politics aren't good candidates to be conquered.
Those that one Splugorth may want to conquer may be a customer to a rival.
Those that provide the Splugorth an advantage politically or economically by being independent.
etc. etc.

[taalismn]

...And those whose conquest would be, for whatever reason, more expensive than whatever profit/value could be extracted from them afterwards.

[taalismn]

(Redundancy Hound has found breakfast! Yum!)

[ShadowLogan]

What is hard to imagine is one that trades with them yet stays free.

I think it is easier for non-state actors like pirates, mercenaries, and even the Free Worlds Council but what about an actual functioning government for a planet or a system, how do they do it?

As for functioning governments doing business with the Splugorth, perhaps its worth considering who Splyn deals with on Rifts Earth without taking them over (yeah plot protection is present on Rifts Earth, but still). The two that come to mind would be the Gargoyles and the Phoenix Empire (any others?), both of which are run by "Monsters" which could indicate the type of worlds the Splugorth would "trade" with.

For "trade" its also worth considering what type of trade is actually going on. What does a given Splugorth world(/kingdom) import and what does it export? What is the trade balance?

[taalismn]

The Gargoyles and the Phoenix Empire are both useful proxies for stirring up trouble without getting directly involved. They're the North Vietnams, Cubas and Syrias of Rifts. For as much as the Splugorth can hide behind plausible deniability, those two kingdoms are useful cats' paws..and whatever gains they acquire, there's a fair chance that they'll trade slaves. resources, and whatever else back to the Splugorth for favorable terms/rates better than a 'monster' kingdom could expect, but still lower than it would cost the Splugiorth to acquire those resources for themselves directly.

The Horune are nomadic enough that simply conquering them would be a difficult proposition. Their mobility, however, allows them to get places the Splugorth might feel stretched to get to. Being amphibious/aquatic, they can also deal with those rivals/pests the Splugorth would otherwise have to divert an appreciable amount of resources to deal with.

[Grazzik]

The dynamic is no different than dealing with Naruni Enterprises or other superpowers.

It could be that the junior trade partner is a source of embarrassment to another power bloc... imagine a core world in the CCW on friendly trade terms with a Splugorth and refusing to give up the lucrative peaceful deal.

Gives the Splugorth access to CCW space, a vantage point to gather Intel, can sucker in other CCW rubes, simply pisses off the neighbors who are left feeling inept and helpless to stop the peaceful trade, forces the neighbors to do things that go against their own laws/principles, etc.

Who knows what makes a Sploog wiggle its tentacles in glee...?

[taalismn]

The hepatarc inwardly cringed from an unfamiliar sensation—fear——even as it physically tried to retreat from its stalker. Unfortunately, its forelimbs had been burnt to uselessness by the unexpected fiery exhalation turned on it by its intended prey, and half its remaining limbs badly lacerated by the prey/not-prey’s equally unexpected and previously hidden claws. So all the crippled hepatarc would do was slither slowly backwards through a growing pool of its own bleeding ichor.
Above it loomed the stalking form of its pursuer, the human/not-human who spared a glance at the open oven in the repurposed human dwelling, and the tray of obviously human body parts cooking within. With obvious disgust the human/not-human turned its glare back upon its prey. A few wisps of its incendiary breath weapon still lingering around the corners of its mouth, the newly-revealed predator growled, as it worked the charging slide on its handheld weapon and brought it to bear on the cornered arachnoid.
“Smile; you’re on the Home Cooking Network.”

It would be interesting to have a human(or other mundane species)-based campaign where the humans’ homeworld is invaded to the point of near-extinction, then the remaining resistance gets unexpected assistance/backing from a Splugorth trade-lord.
The Splugorth offers weapons, medical assistance(including bioborging) and other equipment…maybe a few ‘acts of god’ to level the playing field.

In return, the victorious resistance will offer the Splugorth favored trade partner status(no tariffs), negotiated loyalty, maybe some real estate (‘diplomatic enclaves’).

The Slplugorth also get to thwart the moves of a competing species(the invaders) without actually openly committing its own forces, and sells body-cam video/media from the Resistance of the war….war’s always great entertainment in the monster markets.

[Warshield73]

...And those whose conquest would be, for whatever reason, more expensive than whatever profit/value could be extracted from them afterwards.

Yeah add economics to geographic and political in the second point.

What is hard to imagine is one that trades with them yet stays free.

I think it is easier for non-state actors like pirates, mercenaries, and even the Free Worlds Council but what about an actual functioning government for a planet or a system, how do they do it?

As for functioning governments doing business with the Splugorth, perhaps its worth considering who Splyn deals with on Rifts Earth without taking them over (yeah plot protection is present on Rifts Earth, but still). The two that come to mind would be the Gargoyles and the Phoenix Empire (any others?), both of which are run by "Monsters" which could indicate the type of worlds the Splugorth would "trade" with.

For "trade" its also worth considering what type of trade is actually going on. What does a given Splugorth world(/kingdom) import and what does it export? What is the trade balance?

I absolutely agree that if you have monster controlled worlds/systems they would absolutely be customers, the things is we jsut don't have that many examples in the books to work from.

Splynn also helps a lot of anti-CS groups, discovery of a kittani submarine delivering weapons to anti-CS groups was the catalyst to creating the CS Navy, so I think we come back to the non-state actors for a lot of this.

Outside of slaves I am not sure what they would import, probably just those commodities they need for any technology there minions produce.

The Gargoyles and the Phoenix Empire are both useful proxies for stirring up trouble without getting directly involved. They're the North Vietnams, Cubas and Syrias of Rifts. For as much as the Splugorth can hide behind plausible deniability, those two kingdoms are useful cats' paws..and whatever gains they acquire, there's a fair chance that they'll trade slaves. resources, and whatever else back to the Splugorth for favorable terms/rates better than a 'monster' kingdom could expect, but still lower than it would cost the Splugiorth to acquire those resources for themselves directly.

The Horune are nomadic enough that simply conquering them would be a difficult proposition. Their mobility, however, allows them to get places the Splugorth might feel stretched to get to. Being amphibious/aquatic, they can also deal with those rivals/pests the Splugorth would otherwise have to divert an appreciable amount of resources to deal with.

While I might quibble with some of your geopolitical comparisons I think your point is well made. Any state, that for whatever reason, finds itself at odds with the dominant power in its region would probably end up doing business with a Splugorth Kingdom. A good example might be the US support for Saddam's Iraq in the '70's and '80's. We received no tangible benefit for supplying chemical weapons to him but the chaos it caused it that region benefitted our short term goals. The splugorth are likely to operate in a similar mode where any disruption of those that would restrain them is to there benefit.

The Horune are less like allies or even cat's paws and more like mercenaires hired thugs. There is no reason to conquer them because you can easily pay them to do what you need and the rest of the time they just cause problems for everyone else.

The dynamic is no different than dealing with Naruni Enterprises or other superpowers.

It could be that the junior trade partner is a source of embarrassment to another power bloc... imagine a core world in the CCW on friendly trade terms with a Splugorth and refusing to give up the lucrative peaceful deal.

Gives the Splugorth access to CCW space, a vantage point to gather Intel, can sucker in other CCW rubes, simply pisses off the neighbors who are left feeling inept and helpless to stop the peaceful trade, forces the neighbors to do things that go against their own laws/principles, etc.

All true.

Who knows what makes a Sploog wiggle its tentacles in glee...?
Don't want to know. Really disturbing to contemplate.

The hepatarc inwardly cringed from an unfamiliar sensation—fear——even as it physically tried to retreat from its stalker. Unfortunately, its forelimbs had been burnt to uselessness by the unexpected fiery exhalation turned on it by its intended prey, and half its remaining limbs badly lacerated by the prey/not-prey’s equally unexpected and previously hidden claws. So all the crippled hepatarc would do was slither slowly backwards through a growing pool of its own bleeding ichor.
Above it loomed the stalking form of its pursuer, the human/not-human who spared a glance at the open oven in the repurposed human dwelling, and the tray of obviously human body parts cooking within. With obvious disgust the human/not-human turned its glare back upon its prey. A few wisps of its incendiary breath weapon still lingering around the corners of its mouth, the newly-revealed predator growled, as it worked the charging slide on its handheld weapon and brought it to bear on the cornered arachnoid.
“Smile; you’re on the Home Cooking Network.”

It would be interesting to have a human(or other mundane species)-based campaign where the humans’ homeworld is invaded to the point of near-extinction, then the remaining resistance gets unexpected assistance/backing from a Splugorth trade-lord.
The Splugorth offers weapons, medical assistance(including bioborging) and other equipment…maybe a few ‘acts of god’ to level the playing field.

In return, the victorious resistance will offer the Splugorth favored trade partner status(no tariffs), negotiated loyalty, maybe some real estate (‘diplomatic enclaves’).

The Slplugorth also get to thwart the moves of a competing species(the invaders) without actually openly committing its own forces, and sells body-cam video/media from the Resistance of the war….war’s always great entertainment in the monster markets.

This could be true of any species. Wolfen, noro, any of them. I could really see this as a policy for any species targeted by the Kreeghor.

[taalismn]

I imagine a High Lord having lists....'Utterly Dependent on Us', 'Firmly in Our Pocket', 'Favorably Inclined Towards Us', 'Ready to be Plucked', 'Useful Idiots', etc.

[Warshield73]

I imagine a High Lord having lists....'Utterly Dependent on Us', 'Firmly in Our Pocket', 'Favorably Inclined Towards Us', 'Ready to be Plucked', 'Useful Idiots', etc.

I have always imagined that the...for a lack of better word "mortal politics" is handled by the High Lords. Splugorth, being supernatural intelligences are too alien to understand a lot of this stuff.

[taalismn]

I have always imagined that the...for a lack of better word "mortal politics" is handled by the High Lords. Splugorth, being supernatural intelligences are too alien to understand a lot of this stuff.

This suggested to me a slapstick scene where a Splugorth keeps asking its High Lord seneschal to explain various 'mortal' things it finds puzzling, as the frustrated monster-minion tries to explain to the powerful, but seemingly child-like abomination in terms it can understand.

[Warshield73]

I have always imagined that the...for a lack of better word "mortal politics" is handled by the High Lords. Splugorth, being supernatural intelligences are too alien to understand a lot of this stuff.

This suggested to me a slapstick scene where a Splugorth keeps asking its High Lord seneschal to explain various 'mortal' things it finds puzzling, as the frustrated monster-minion tries to explain to the powerful, but seemingly child-like abomination in terms it can understand.

Sort of a who's on first but more "why are they screaming and crying when we sell their children away from them?" sort of thing. I can see it, on the other hand plenty of humans have trouble with that one so probably need a better example.

[taalismn]

"So why is it called a 'hamburger' when it doesn't have any ham in it?"
"Why do humans need clothes to go swimming?"
"Why are they so worked up about the airspeed of a cardinal carrying a coconut?"

[Ice Dragon]

I do not see dragons as minions of the Splugorth, yes evil one will work for a Splugorth, good ones maybe be kept as slaves or killed.

[taalismn]

I do not see dragons as minions of the Splugorth, yes evil one will work for a Splugorth, good ones maybe be kept as slaves or killed.

"I will hug him, squeeze him, and call him George!"

[Warshield73]

I do not see dragons as minions of the Splugorth, yes evil one will work for a Splugorth, good ones maybe be kept as slaves or killed.

If you look at the relationship Splyncryth has with Dragonwright it is more the leaders are allies while the members are minions. Also, to a great extent most of the minions are just slightly elevated slaves so dragons are no different here.

"I will hug him, squeeze him, and call him George!"

I want a picture of a slugorth trying to hold a dragon that would just be so precious...or F'd up...maybe both.

[ShadowLogan]

I do not see dragons as minions of the Splugorth, yes evil one will work for a Splugorth, good ones maybe be kept as slaves or killed.

If you look at the relationship Splyncryth has with Dragonwright it is more the leaders are allies while the members are minions. Also, to a great extent most of the minions are just slightly elevated slaves so dragons are no different here.

"I will hug him, squeeze him, and call him George!"

I want a picture of a slugorth trying to hold a dragon that would just be so precious...or F'd up...maybe both.

Dragons are held in Reverence throughout Altantis, see WB2 pg33-4:
-"For reasons not clear to most dragons, the Splugorth and their minions have a strange reverence toward dragons, particularly ancient dragons! Many of the minions, particularly Kydians, Kittani, gargoyles and T-Men, will repsond to a dragon as he or she were a king"
-"Even the Splugorth will treat 'elder' and 'ancient' dragons as an equal, or at least a near equal."
-The aspect of fear seems evident in the Splugorth's intense respect and the measure of equality given to elder dragons. The Splugorth's minions exhibit absolute awe and what can only be described as sacred reverence toward 'ancient' dragons."
-they also mention how individual "stages" of their life cycle are treat, hatchlings get some latitude that few others have.

[Warshield73]

I do not see dragons as minions of the Splugorth, yes evil one will work for a Splugorth, good ones maybe be kept as slaves or killed.

If you look at the relationship Splyncryth has with Dragonwright it is more the leaders are allies while the members are minions. Also, to a great extent most of the minions are just slightly elevated slaves so dragons are no different here.

"I will hug him, squeeze him, and call him George!"

I want a picture of a slugorth trying to hold a dragon that would just be so precious...or F'd up...maybe both.

Dragons are held in Reverence throughout Altantis, see WB2 pg33-4:
-"For reasons not clear to most dragons, the Splugorth and their minions have a strange reverence toward dragons, particularly ancient dragons! Many of the minions, particularly Kydians, Kittani, gargoyles and T-Men, will repsond to a dragon as he or she were a king"
-"Even the Splugorth will treat 'elder' and 'ancient' dragons as an equal, or at least a near equal."
-The aspect of fear seems evident in the Splugorth's intense respect and the measure of equality given to elder dragons. The Splugorth's minions exhibit absolute awe and what can only be described as sacred reverence toward 'ancient' dragons."
-they also mention how individual "stages" of their life cycle are treat, hatchlings get some latitude that few others have.

Yes, all of this is true and it lines up with what we've already said. Dragons are in the highest tier of minions beneath the Elite classes so they are equal to kittani, metzlains and even human maxi-men.

I think the problem is you are taking the information on dragons who are visitors to Atlantis. They give latitude to dragons there on business but those who serve the splugorth have their place in the hierarchy and they better fall in line.