Mystic Study Wizard too powerful at Level 1?

[jburkett]

Hello, I am about to start running a Heroes Unlimited/TMNT campaign and am hoping to keep things balanced in the group. At first glance, it appears that a Level 1 Mystic Study Wizard seems to be overpowered compared to other classes in terms of the range of powers available to them. 24 spells from levels 1-10 plus the other magic abilities. Our Wizard has: Armor of Ithan, Blind, Invisibility Simple, Carpet of Adhesion (seems overpowered because it's automatically successful even if target saves), Fire Bolt, Fly as the Eagle, and Heal Wounds. We still have spells left to choose.

So, I guess my question is this: Do you find Mystic Study Wizard too overpowered at level one and do you make adjustments to the character? If not, what other aspects of the game balance out the range of powers available to the Wizard? What am I not seeing?

Also, spell casting takes two attacks for lower level spells. I believe this is different than other systems like Rifts where spell casters can cast a spell per action/attack. Which do you use for Heroes Unlimited?
Thanks! I realize that is a couple questions.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Having played and GMed for Mystic Studies, I can tell you that they are fairly balanced.

Yes, the Mystic Study will always be a jack of all trades character with a dizzying array of abilities. But their main limitation is endurance.

A Super powered character, in general, can use their power an unlimited number of times.

statistically, a Mystic Study character has around 60 PPE - 80 PPE, and unlike a setting like Rifts, magical items and PPE Batteries are extremely difficult to find.

This means that even the low cost of low level spells will quickly deplete them. that 5 PPE per shot of Energy Bolt still means they only have about a dozen or so. maybe half a dozen of spells of 10 PPE cost or so.

Mid-Level spells cost 20-30 PPE each and will only be able to do one or two and nothing else.

High Level spells might be or are objectively impossible to cast without extensive preparation, or blow all their PPE on a single effect.

And these work against each-other. A few too many Mystic Armors or Energy Bolts thrown around, and they simply won't have the PPE to cast any higher level spells at all until they can recover.

TL:DR, just keep tabs of their PPE and you'll see that the Mystic Study is actually very balanced. their utility is limited by the gas in the tank. To be effective they really need to be careful and conservative with their PPE. This isn't Rifts where there's a ley line everywhere after all.

[jburkett]

Thanks! That's the info I was looking for.

[Curbludgeon]

Carpet of Adhesion, and to an extent Magic Net are both quite efficient ways to end encounters, and are some of those most commonly taken off the table. Difficulties in accessing PPE relative to higher magic settings do a lot to compensate, but note that even in Rifts a majority of casters still snag something like a laser rifle and focus their magics more on other methods of problem solving.

There have been some changes to Meditation and its recharging of ISP and PPE, as of Rifts Manhunters. Whether or not one wants a more megaversal-based approach might factor in to assessing low level strength. I'll edit this post with the specifics in a bit.

[Marcethus]

Having played and GMed for Mystic Studies, I can tell you that they are fairly balanced.

Yes, the Mystic Study will always be a jack of all trades character with a dizzying array of abilities. But their main limitation is endurance.

A Super powered character, in general, can use their power an unlimited number of times.

statistically, a Mystic Study character has around 60 PPE - 80 PPE, and unlike a setting like Rifts, magical items and PPE Batteries are extremely difficult to find.

This means that even the low cost of low level spells will quickly deplete them. that 5 PPE per shot of Energy Bolt still means they only have about a dozen or so. maybe half a dozen of spells of 10 PPE cost or so.

Mid-Level spells cost 20-30 PPE each and will only be able to do one or two and nothing else.

High Level spells might be or are objectively impossible to cast without extensive preparation, or blow all their PPE on a single effect.

And these work against each-other. A few too many Mystic Armors or Energy Bolts thrown around, and they simply won't have the PPE to cast any higher level spells at all until they can recover.

TL:DR, just keep tabs of their PPE and you'll see that the Mystic Study is actually very balanced. their utility is limited by the gas in the tank. To be effective they really need to be careful and conservative with their PPE. This isn't Rifts where there's a ley line everywhere after all.

I second Nekira. I have played and GM'ed mystic study Mages in the few HU games I have run. And they are as balanced as any super-powered character is. (This doesn't even touch on the Mega-hero that I built that breaks the game completely. We don't talk about him.)

[jburkett]

Thanks for the feedback. I just wanted to ask again about the number of attacks for spellcasters. For HU, the lower level spells take two attacks/actions to cast which effectively gives them about half the number of attacks/actions as other first level characters (if they are just firing off spells). If they are being shot at, and hit, it also means having the spell disrupted. What are some strategies for mitigating this so the spellcaster isn’t feeling like they’re being left out of the action. Also, I think this changed for Rifts where lower level spells only take one action to cast which sounds more reasonable to me but I’m a noob at HU. Thanks again!

[Marcethus]

Thanks for the feedback. I just wanted to ask again about the number of attacks for spellcasters. For HU, the lower level spells take two attacks/actions to cast which effectively gives them about half the number of attacks/actions as other first level characters (if they are just firing off spells). If they are being shot at, and hit, it also means having the spell disrupted. What are some strategies for mitigating this so the spellcaster isn’t feeling like they’re being left out of the action. Also, I think this changed for Rifts where lower level spells only take one action to cast which sounds more reasonable to me but I’m a noob at HU. Thanks again!

RUE changed it to lower level spells (levels 1-5) are one attack, Mid level spells (6-11) are two attacks, and High Level (11-15) are three attacks. I don't recall what Spells of Legend but they are 3+. I no longer have HU2 I lost all my books and have been rebuilding my collection. So I have to base things off memory. Especially with the books I do have being in storage atm.

[Stone Gargoyle]

The limited PPE available makes the Mystic Study character balanced. Sure they have a lot of spells, but those all use up their PPE, and a prolonged battle makes it so you have to create them with other skills and abilities to fight in order for them to be useful. Yes, they can draw PPE from other sources, but that is difficult in a battle and most often they are relying on their personal PPE.

[Ice Dragon]

The Mystic Study is not overpowerd at Level 1, since - as Nekria already stated - has limits with P.P.E and the spells that can be casted.

[Plane]

The limited PPE available makes the Mystic Study character balanced. Sure they have a lot of spells, but those all use up their PPE, and a prolonged battle makes it so you have to create them with other skills and abilities to fight in order for them to be useful. Yes, they can draw PPE from other sources, but that is difficult in a battle and most often they are relying on their personal PPE.

yeah just as long as it doesn't change to the PPE-per-melee system we see in PF2 and RUE then the HU2 version should be fine

[Marcethus]

The limited PPE available makes the Mystic Study character balanced. Sure they have a lot of spells, but those all use up their PPE, and a prolonged battle makes it so you have to create them with other skills and abilities to fight in order for them to be useful. Yes, they can draw PPE from other sources, but that is difficult in a battle and most often they are relying on their personal PPE.

yeah just as long as it doesn't change to the PPE-per-melee system we see in PF2 and RUE then the HU2 version should be fine

What PPE per Melee system. I will have to double check what exactly PF2 does but I know that RUE does 1 action for Spells level 1-5, 2 actions for spells 6-11 and 3 actions for spells level 11-15. IIRC PF2 does very similar. And one of the two of them has KS's footnote on his personal rules of 1 action for levels 1-6, 2 actions for 7-12 and 3 actions for 13-15 plus spells of legend.

A while back there was a cycle of PPE channeling as a house rule that had a mage able to channel a certain amount of PPE per melee action. If the spell was less then your PPE channel rate per action then it cost one action otherwise it was the PPE cost divided by your PPE Channeling rate. It wasn't a bad system but it came out right before RUE did.

[Plane]

ah sorry I meant the PPE you can draw every melee round from ley lines in PF2 and RUE, much less PPE from ley lines in the BTS/Rifts/NB/HU2 books.

[Marcethus]

ah sorry I meant the PPE you can draw every melee round from ley lines in PF2 and RUE, much less PPE from ley lines in the BTS/Rifts/NB/HU2 books.

Yeah I noticed that when they updated the rules I actually like the new versions of the rules on that.

[Plane]

given how much more attractive it makes ley lines it does make me want to increase their dangers too, more roaming entities out to suck up the PPE and play pranks, etc

[Marcethus]

given how much more attractive it makes ley lines it does make me want to increase their dangers too, more roaming entities out to suck up the PPE and play pranks, etc

There are plenty of threats that use ley lines as ambush points just waiting for some sucker to come try and use it. Be it cultists that want to do a sacrifice for some dark ritual. Or a beastie that has learned that yummy mages come to the ley line to become it's food. And all sorts of things in between.

[Daniel Stoker]

given how much more attractive it makes ley lines it does make me want to increase their dangers too, more roaming entities out to suck up the PPE and play pranks, etc

There are plenty of threats that use ley lines as ambush points just waiting for some sucker to come try and use it. Be it cultists that want to do a sacrifice for some dark ritual. Or a beastie that has learned that yummy mages come to the ley line to become it's food. And all sorts of things in between.

Ley lines are great but yeah, not only should the heroes know about them but the things that want to feed on them or other baddies looking to take out anyone who messes with 'their' territory.


Daniel Stoker