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Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:57 pm

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Much attention has been paid of late to main book pg 87:
    5. Immunities: Nightbane are immune to all forms of mind control

However, there's some interesting phrasing on page 112:
    More importantly, while the Soul Shield is up, any spell or power that tries to control or dominate the Nightbane's mind will automatically fail.

So what exactly is the distinction here between how mind-control powers/spells work by default on Nightbane, vs how they work when a Soul Shield is up?

If they are already personally immune, what should be the added effect?

The only thing I can think of is perhaps if by default they are personally immune, the "fail" inducement of a Soul Shield is not merely failing to influence the Nightbane, but rather failing ALTOGETHER.

Where that would be important is with area-effect powers. Like for example, if we were to look at "Invisible Haze", perhaps against normal nightbane when it's turned on, they can just see the user, but they are still invisible to non-Nightbane who must make their standard check...

Whereas if your power attacks a Nightbane with a Shoul Shield up, he not only sees through it, but the power shuts down complete and EVERYONE can see you?

This actually seems within the scope of Soul Shield because it actually appears to have some offensive aspects to it. The more-known one being in the 2nd paragraph, where if you try to read a Nightbane's mind you have to save vs psi to break free of the POOL OF UTTER DARKNESS, and are otherwise trapped in it indefinitely (1 attempt to break free per round) or at least until the pour ends (it lasts an hour!)

The save vs psi might seem strange since nightbane don't have psi, but I recall seeing a magic spell or two which also require saves vs psi instead of saves vs magic, so I guess sometimes spells/talents can emulate psi regardless of caster psi

Unread postPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:23 pm

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Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
That is what I figured. it's not just a Nightbane Mind Block, it's a counterattack and area of effect. Say Wisps of Confusion, if a nightbane with Soul Sheild is up, then no one targeted by the spell is effected.

Also remember, Shadow Warlocks can learn it too. So it could also just be that it provides immunity to users who are not inherently immune.

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Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:46 am

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Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
1) Shadow Warlocks, Reshapers, Athanos, Artifacts, and anything else that provides/gets Talents but isn't an actual Nightbane
2) Possession (that dominates your mind, briefly, though it doesn't control it)
3) It would seem that a Soul Shield will protect even from things like Empathic Transmission (which is explicitly stated to not be mind control)
4) there is the questionable issue of the AoE (I can see it going both ways)
5) This also presumes that the power wasn't written before the immunity power was granted to the NB. They may not originally have been immune and needed this power. (I could honestly see this having been originally be an innate ability that got separated into a talent/ immunity to mind control)

The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:29 pm

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I'd considered 1) but... were these necessarily already in planning when CJ wrote Soul Shield?

re 2) not sure I see a distinction between control/dominate as they seem somewhat synonymous-ish

re 3) Empathic Transmission is emotional manipulation, so since it's not part of the "mind", I don't know that Soul Shield would necessarily help against it. Would a psionic mind block?

re 4) I guess it's a question as to whether a power fails partially (in respect to the SS'd NB) or altogether (in respect to all targets)

re 5) yeah I was thinking maybe a couple possibilities along that line:
A) maybe CJ initially had no MC immunity for Nightspawn and wrote SS to give it to them, then added MC immunity later and forgot that it was supposed to be the exclusive realm of SS
B) maybe CJ initially did have MC immunity for Nightspawn, but then wrote SS with the intent of removing it, but forgot to remove it?

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