General Palladium system questions

[daddystabz]

I have a few Palladium games related questions and am hoping that some you Palladium experts can give me a hand.



1) I noticed that some skills do not have a starting base percentage or increase in percentage when leveling up. I assume you do not roll these skills and that you just add whatever bonuses you get from them to your character.



2) How do you roll something akin to an Athletics check in these games given the likely fact above? In most games, if you were doing something like jumping an object like a fence or something you would roll an Athletics check. I am not sure what you would do in these games by Palladium? Would you make an attribute check instead?



3) How do you make a raw attribute test in these games?

[jaymz]

1 - skills that do not have a percentage are more like enhancement skills than "hard" skills. They would be the physical and weapon skills by and large give you one time bonuses to attributes or combat bonuses to add your d20 rolls in a melee round. In the case of weapons you can get further bonuses as you level up.

2 - there is no such thing per se as an athletics check in palladium (by the wording I assume you come from a d&d 3.x, pathfinder, or d20 modern background). The GM will just rule whether the object or fence can be overcome and how long it takes. That or the GM may make you do a check against your base attribute (in this case PS or PP would be my guess see number 3 below)

3 - there is no hard rule as to how to do this I recall ever seeing. There are two ways I know people do it however and that is either a d20 roll or a percentile roll, in both cases having to roll below your attribute number. Which one a GM uses depends on how much they want your attribute to be able to affect how you do something since your attributes once high enough already grant bonuses in other areas, and some GMs feel making them even more effective is either a good thing or a bad thing.


As an aside welcome to the vagueries of the palladium system where a lot more gm interpretation is needed than most modern games require.

[Father Goose]

One of the biggest frustrations for many players/GMs is the lack of clear answers for questions like this.
One of the biggest freedoms for many players/GMs is the availability to determine for themselves how they want to handle questions like this.

You have to decide for yourself which kind of player/GM you are. Do you feel frustration with the rules not being streamlined, or do you see the opportunities it can present?

Personally, I like to turn this system bug into a system feature and rule based on what is best for the story.

[ShadowLogan]

1. Correct. There are skills with no percentage values. These skills are either combat orientated (and modify D20 rolls) or modify other skills (percentage values).

2. You either do it or you don't (GM call). Jumping/Leaping distances are covered, sort of. While we don't know what the untrained character can jump/leap, characters with Gymnastics Skill (and a few other skills) have a defined leaping distance. Those without this can still leap/jump they just can't go as far, what is missing is the distance (or finding it easily).

3. D20 roll, with you rolling under your attribute score (for those w/greater than 20 attributes a nat 20 in this case is an auto fail). At least that is how we've done it.

[zerombr]

I use d30s for attribute checks, but only for things not covered by the rules, like 'can I maybe make that jump'? Roll Speed, let's find out how much momentum you can garner!

I also do this for chases, sure the one with the higher SPD will have an advantage, but that's not the only factor.

[Jack Burton]

I use d30s for attribute checks, but only for things not covered by the rules, like 'can I maybe make that jump'? Roll Speed, let's find out how much momentum you can garner!

I also do this for chases, sure the one with the higher SPD will have an advantage, but that's not the only factor.

I love the fact that you and your group use D30s! I bought each of my three kids D30s at GenCon two years ago as "fun presents from dad's trip", but after playing with you guys, I see they can be put to practical use! If only we can find more uses for the poor, lonely D12... hahahaha

[Killer Cyborg]

I have a few Palladium games related questions and am hoping that some you Palladium experts can give me a hand.



1) I noticed that some skills do not have a starting base percentage or increase in percentage when leveling up. I assume you do not roll these skills and that you just add whatever bonuses you get from them to your character.

Yes.

2) How do you roll something akin to an Athletics check in these games given the likely fact above? In most games, if you were doing something like jumping an object like a fence or something you would roll an Athletics check. I am not sure what you would do in these games by Palladium? Would you make an attribute check instead?
3) How do you make a raw attribute test in these games?

The closest to canon we have is that once, long ago, a Palladium staffer mentioned that the way to roll a skill check for a skill you don't have is to pick the closest appropriate attribute, and roll percentile dice against that.
For example, somebody with PP 10 attempting to prowl, would effectively have a 10% skill percentage.
This tells us not only how to make default skill checks, but also how to make Attribute Checks.

Keep in mind:
-This wouldn't make sense to apply for skills that people cannot reasonably attempt without training, such as brain surgery.
-Skill checks only need to be made when there's something unusual or exciting going on, not every time a character does something. So an unskilled character using his Physical Prowess of 10 to pilot a Bicycle could reasonably--after some trial and error--pedal along a smooth, flat road effectively without making any rolls to avoid crashing.
That 10% chance would only apply if he had to dodge an animal, or go down a steep hill, or something else that was a bit tricky.
And even then, I'd only bother with that as a GM if it mattered to the story. Like a combat situation or something. Otherwise, I'd sum up with "You take some spills here or there, but you eventually make it to your destination..."
-For some more complex skills, such as Pilot Auto, the character might default to their IQ to figure out HOW to start and drive the car, then default to their PP when trying to steer or react to sudden changes. So even though it's one skill, different attributes could/should be used to replicate different functions of the skill.

Keep in mind that this is all extrapolation from a single comment made by somebody on the Palladium staff--it's quasi-canon at best.
But I think it fills a lot of the gaps in the rules.

[dreicunan]

I use d30s for attribute checks, but only for things not covered by the rules, like 'can I maybe make that jump'? Roll Speed, let's find out how much momentum you can garner!

I also do this for chases, sure the one with the higher SPD will have an advantage, but that's not the only factor.

I love the fact that you and your group use D30s! I bought each of my three kids D30s at GenCon two years ago as "fun presents from dad's trip", but after playing with you guys, I see they can be put to practical use! If only we can find more uses for the poor, lonely D12... hahahaha

Time to homebrew up some weapons using d12s as damage dice.

[Jack Burton]

I use d30s for attribute checks, but only for things not covered by the rules, like 'can I maybe make that jump'? Roll Speed, let's find out how much momentum you can garner!

I also do this for chases, sure the one with the higher SPD will have an advantage, but that's not the only factor.

I love the fact that you and your group use D30s! I bought each of my three kids D30s at GenCon two years ago as "fun presents from dad's trip", but after playing with you guys, I see they can be put to practical use! If only we can find more uses for the poor, lonely D12... hahahaha

Time to homebrew up some weapons using d12s as damage dice.

The bad thing about using D12s is that your damage could vary quite a bit. I do use them when running games (other game systems) for my kids, like rolling for perception or some other random task or act.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I like using d12s with d8s in place of d20s (I.E. the 2nd Edition AD&D Capital-D D20) for rolls where you want a tighter spread.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

2) How do you roll something akin to an Athletics check in these games given the likely fact above? In most games, if you were doing something like jumping an object like a fence or something you would roll an Athletics check. I am not sure what you would do in these games by Palladium? Would you make an attribute check instead?

For this, the general Athletics skill doesn't cover this.

However, Gymnastics and Acrobatics probably do.

edit: im not 100% certain those skills are in Palladium Fantasy.

Furter edit: im entirely unsure how i got into this thread, since i could have sworn i was clicking on Palladium Fantasy.

[Father Goose]

2) How do you roll something akin to an Athletics check in these games given the likely fact above? In most games, if you were doing something like jumping an object like a fence or something you would roll an Athletics check. I am not sure what you would do in these games by Palladium? Would you make an attribute check instead?

For this, the general Athletics skill doesn't cover this.

However, Gymnastics and Acrobatics probably do.

edit: im not 100% certain those skills are in Palladium Fantasy.

Furter edit: im entirely unsure how i got into this thread, since i could have sworn i was clicking on Palladium Fantasy.

LOL, well welcome to the thread anyway!
Yes, Acrobatics and Gymnastics are used for a number of "Athletic" type skill checks, and yes, they are both in Palladium Fantasy. So is Tumbling (WB 2), which broadens the concept somewhat.

[dreicunan]

I use d30s for attribute checks, but only for things not covered by the rules, like 'can I maybe make that jump'? Roll Speed, let's find out how much momentum you can garner!

I also do this for chases, sure the one with the higher SPD will have an advantage, but that's not the only factor.

I love the fact that you and your group use D30s! I bought each of my three kids D30s at GenCon two years ago as "fun presents from dad's trip", but after playing with you guys, I see they can be put to practical use! If only we can find more uses for the poor, lonely D12... hahahaha

Time to homebrew up some weapons using d12s as damage dice.

The bad thing about using D12s is that your damage could vary quite a bit. I do use them when running games (other game systems) for my kids, like rolling for perception or some other random task or act.

True, when comparing something like 4d6 vs 3d8 vs 2d12 you'd get more consistent damage with 4d6 and a better average over time (14 vs 13.5 vs 13).

Where I really like d12s for damage dice is as representing an option for an improved weapon, such as a weapon that normally would do 2d8 has an improved version that does 2d12.

[Warwolf]

2) How do you roll something akin to an Athletics check in these games given the likely fact above? In most games, if you were doing something like jumping an object like a fence or something you would roll an Athletics check. I am not sure what you would do in these games by Palladium? Would you make an attribute check instead?
3) How do you make a raw attribute test in these games?

The closest to canon we have is that once, long ago, a Palladium staffer mentioned that the way to roll a skill check for a skill you don't have is to pick the closest appropriate attribute, and roll percentile dice against that.
For example, somebody with PP 10 attempting to prowl, would effectively have a 10% skill percentage.
This tells us not only how to make default skill checks, but also how to make Attribute Checks.

Keep in mind:
-This wouldn't make sense to apply for skills that people cannot reasonably attempt without training, such as brain surgery.
-Skill checks only need to be made when there's something unusual or exciting going on, not every time a character does something. So an unskilled character using his Physical Prowess of 10 to pilot a Bicycle could reasonably--after some trial and error--pedal along a smooth, flat road effectively without making any rolls to avoid crashing.
That 10% chance would only apply if he had to dodge an animal, or go down a steep hill, or something else that was a bit tricky.
And even then, I'd only bother with that as a GM if it mattered to the story. Like a combat situation or something. Otherwise, I'd sum up with "You take some spills here or there, but you eventually make it to your destination..."
-For some more complex skills, such as Pilot Auto, the character might default to their IQ to figure out HOW to start and drive the car, then default to their PP when trying to steer or react to sudden changes. So even though it's one skill, different attributes could/should be used to replicate different functions of the skill.

Keep in mind that this is all extrapolation from a single comment made by somebody on the Palladium staff--it's quasi-canon at best.
But I think it fills a lot of the gaps in the rules.

Point of fact: there was a canon answer published with a couple of options on how to make such determinations. I believe it was in the Q&A that got cut from Nightbane Survival Guide (in Rifter 48). If I recall, it also had rules for adapting to Horror Factor (i.e. if you kill vampires all the time they stop scaring the crap out of you in normal circumstances) and other useful info.