A quick question...

[pblackcrow]

A roughly 700lb stone, with weightlessness cast on it to weigh 50lbs gets teleported within 15 sec of the expiration of the spell weightlessness, about 5 miles in the air over a fortification with a natural hot springs under it to heating it rather like a steam boiler would. Now, the depth to the lava pool is 260 foot under a somewhat solid bedrock with geodes and crystals lining said bedrock. And yes there is a small lava tube there.

The player well enough to hit the fort. Now my question...would the impact be enough to crack the bedrock or trigger a volcanic explosion when it hits?

Now the stone is obsidian, so it will shatter on impact and lob shards everywhere! Which is what she wanted, other wise she wouldn't have gotten specifically obsidian. But what I am concerned with is the damage done from the thing hitting terminal velocity and causing a sonic boom when it hits. And trying to figure up the damage from that before I even start to calculate the damage from the shards.

Damage will be impressive.

I was going to ask, how much should I set the damage at?

[kiralon]

not very likely
Trebuchets used to toss stones between 150-300lbs to smash down walls, it will do a lot of damage, and todays bunker busters will get about 100ft down through earth or through 20ft of concrete, and were sometimes going faster than mach 1, The obsidian might also be softer than what the fort is made out of and mostly spend its force on shattering. The bunker busters had to be specially designed to hit very high speed. A chunk of rock dropping is unlikely to break the speed of sound as it has to much drag.

How they were accurate?. 5 miles is a long way to see, and there is not much in the air for you to focus on, as in, how does the person get the range and angle right, especially at that height. That rock is 26000ft up, that is some accurate bombing (from that height a small crosswind could make it miss.)

[pblackcrow]

I am asking for a friend. Not sure of the shape or anything. Just that gravity is slightly more on that world...the way he explained it was if the moon is a 1, and the earth a 2...this would be a 2.25. But I know it has 2 moons and is slightly larger. Don't know if that will help or not.

[eliakon]

considering that GP aircraft bombs in WWII routinely weighted more than a ton and did little more than make large craters.....yah, not much.
a rock in th 40-80lb range does 2d4x10+10. If the GM is VERY generous, and allows you to multiply this straight up, that's 2d4x100+100. And that's is you don't scale like virtually every other damage in the game.

[Alrik Vas]

Do the collision rules have any modifiers for mass? May be worth looking into. Though if their attack was dead-on, maybe it just has the desired effect. Working with these kinds of numbers isn't really all that necessary.

[Svartalf]

If the stone is obsiudian, it will shatter on impact and waste most of its power sending splinters all around the place... use something hard like granite or basalt, but even then, the ground will likely absorb enough force for the 4 ton projectile to just flatten the bit it lands on and cause major damage around the landing site.

[TiekoSora]

There's a reason asteroids and meteorites do so much damage when they manage to impact the Earth. They are already traveling tens of thousands of miles per hour when they enter the atmosphere. Unless the caster can find a way to propel the rock to such a speed, I concur that you will only achieve a small crater and shrapnel damage from the exploding obsidian shards.

EDIT: This is why many armies in from the Renaissance forward utilized sappers. Engineers trained specifically to mine under a strategic target and emplace explosives under a key position, in order to bring it down. In our modern military, combat engineers are still referred to as sappers, and are commonly used to breach the defenses of the enemy.

[pblackcrow]

He says thank you.

[MADMANMIKE]

I'm sorry, but as a GM I would let that fly as they planned just for the sheer creativity of it. Surely there's an experimental alchemical magazine that just happens to be damaged by the impact causing an explosion that chain reacts to erupt lava and destroy the base. That's how I like to see a game go.

[URLeader Hobbes]

No chance but points for clever but futile idea.

[TiekoSora]

I'm sorry, but as a GM I would let that fly as they planned just for the sheer creativity of it. Surely there's an experimental alchemical magazine that just happens to be damaged by the impact causing an explosion that chain reacts to erupt lava and destroy the base. That's how I like to see a game go.

I as a GM, would not. I base that decision on a GM ruling in a Werewolf/Masquerade campaign where a werewolf player picked a lock with a Snickers bar, and the GM allowed it because he rolled a natural 20. Yes, these are fantastical worlds we play in, but sometimes you have to inject some common sense into it.

[Alrik Vas]

How did he natural 20 with a D10 system...that guy must be really good...

[TiekoSora]

As with most gaming groups, the system had been modified to one we had been using for several settings.

[MADMANMIKE]

I'm sorry, but as a GM I would let that fly as they planned just for the sheer creativity of it. Surely there's an experimental alchemical magazine that just happens to be damaged by the impact causing an explosion that chain reacts to erupt lava and destroy the base. That's how I like to see a game go.

I as a GM, would not. I base that decision on a GM ruling in a Werewolf/Masquerade campaign where a werewolf player picked a lock with a Snickers bar, and the GM allowed it because he rolled a natural 20. Yes, these are fantastical worlds we play in, but sometimes you have to inject some common sense into it.

I have to say, that's an absurd comparison. Picking a lock with a Snickers bar? That's the kind of thing I expect out of a white-wolf game..

[eliakon]

I'm sorry, but as a GM I would let that fly as they planned just for the sheer creativity of it. Surely there's an experimental alchemical magazine that just happens to be damaged by the impact causing an explosion that chain reacts to erupt lava and destroy the base. That's how I like to see a game go.

I as a GM, would not. I base that decision on a GM ruling in a Werewolf/Masquerade campaign where a werewolf player picked a lock with a Snickers bar, and the GM allowed it because he rolled a natural 20. Yes, these are fantastical worlds we play in, but sometimes you have to inject some common sense into it.

I have to say, that's an absurd comparison. Picking a lock with a Snickers bar? That's the kind of thing I expect out of a white-wolf game..

To be fair...how is 'randomly violates logic A' different than 'randomly violates logic B' They are both examples of wildly improbable events, in games that are not known for their rigidity. *shrugs* Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[Jerell]

There's no magic in snickers, just peanuts, caramel and plain old nougaty goodness. I've seen a rock hit a wall, I've never even heard of picking a lock with nougat until just now.

[eliakon]

There's no magic in snickers, just peanuts, caramel and plain old nougaty goodness. I've seen a rock hit a wall, I've never even heard of picking a lock with nougat until just now.

That's the point of the statement though. Picking a lock with a candy bar is just as likely as breaking a fortress with a rock the size of a motorcycle. They are both so beyond plausible that they fall into 'the plot must go on'

[mirithol]

There's no magic in snickers, just peanuts, caramel and plain old nougaty goodness. I've seen a rock hit a wall, I've never even heard of picking a lock with nougat until just now.

That's the point of the statement though. Picking a lock with a candy bar is just as likely as breaking a fortress with a rock the size of a motorcycle. They are both so beyond plausible that they fall into 'the plot must go on'

I'd make the guy save vs. snickers - if he fails he eats it. Then a skill check for gnawing a candy bar into a key/pick set and somehow quick-freezing it (peanut brittle is always a better choice for candy thieves - that's how the clowns do it). Absurd - yes; creative - yes; sounds fun to me, and if a "1" fumbles and a "20" is a critical success, so be it; Failure and someone has nougaty goodness in there keyhole, and likely remembers the player character with snickers bars... Back to fun - we're still talking about it so it's halfway to epic. You never talk about the doors you opened with a key or picks - no "wow factor" there.

Rock vs. Ground: Lay out the options: A roll of 20 - plan works and you talk about it over beers 20 years later...; 18-19 - doesn't crack the earth, but devastates the above-ground defenses with shrapnel shredding living things inside making the fort easy to take; 16-17 good result - creates a weak spot for the player characters to exploit - gain an advantage; 14-15 - a large boom and decent damage to defense/defenders; 12-13 - weak hit - some damage - defenders distracted and look up nervously for 3d4 rounds; 9-11 glancing blow - no damage - defenders look up distractedly for 2d4 rounds; 4-8 - total miss somewhere else - Player characters hear/ feel a large thump from some other direction; 2-3 nearly hits the player characters - some large amount of shrapnel damage to the party; the dreaded "1" - A shadow falls over the earth, well, not really the whole earth, more like your party, and it is growing larger... BOOM!

So the question to the player characters is...Are you feeling lucky?

By the way: Everyone know if the rock were made of snickers instead of obsidian this would totally work

[Jerell]

I giant snickers would totally work. People have to save verse hunger to avoid eating it. If they eat a giant snickers it's then a save verse diabetic coma. Probably wipe out half the garrison.

Picking a lock with a candy bar is just as likely as breaking a fortress with a rock the size of a motorcycle.

With a Butterfinger maybe. With a snickers? No way.

[MADMANMIKE]

That's the point of the statement though. Picking a lock with a candy bar is just as likely as breaking a fortress with a rock the size of a motorcycle. They are both so beyond plausible that they fall into 'the plot must go on'

For someone who's claiming the logical and scientific high ground you certainly seem to have a tenuous grasp of both at best.. Rocks are hard and break things they impact with.. Candy bars are candy and serve no function whatsoever remotely resembling a lock pick.. the analogy fails on all levels..

It's like if someone asked if it was possible to drive a car from New York to London, you would suggest that's as absurd as trying to build a brick house on a cloud..

[pblackcrow]

By the way, Mike, there are several towns and cities in the US named London. So, it is possible.

Anyway, the player didn't know about what was under the fort. The GM however did. It was something he had set up for the player. However, he didn't know what the player was planning to do with the huge chunk of obsidian.

I copied and pasted it as it was written.

The obsidian shattered and shards went flying was what he used! Damage from the shards was impressive! Everyone not behind a stone wall took 4D4x10 damage. Heck, I am not sure if even the horses would have survived.

[AlanGunhouse]

The question is how aerodynamic is the rock, and how strait is the volcanic flue. Assuming the rock was aerodynamic and dense enough to actually hit a terminal velocity above the speed of sound and struck the flue exactly (which presumably would mean landing directly on the water channel leading down to the volcanic vent) it might possibly be driven deeply enough to completely block the hot spring...which might cause a steam pressure explosion. I doubt it would cause an eruption, but there could still be significant damage.

[arouetta]

Volcanic explosions are caused by a combination of a buildup of magma and a buildup of gas. If the hot springs aren't eating people's skins off and people are fine breathing the air and lava's not covering the ground, gas is not being released in appreciable quantities and magma's not building up. Taking a volcanic rock and plugging the hole will result in practically nothing for the immediate future. Oh, years, maybe centuries down the line when magma and gasses build up there'll be something. But falling into the hole would actually prevent the shatter damage as most of it would be contained.

[Jerell]

4D4x10 seems excessive to me given getting chopped with a Zwei Hander is only 3D6. That being said, still sounds like you guys had fun. Good stuff.

So the rock hit the fortress from straight above, broke, and everyone not in cover got hit with shrapnel? Not knowing the size of the fortress, it seems somewhat plausible.

[eliakon]

That's the point of the statement though. Picking a lock with a candy bar is just as likely as breaking a fortress with a rock the size of a motorcycle. They are both so beyond plausible that they fall into 'the plot must go on'

For someone who's claiming the logical and scientific high ground you certainly seem to have a tenuous grasp of both at best.. Rocks are hard and break things they impact with.. Candy bars are candy and serve no function whatsoever remotely resembling a lock pick.. the analogy fails on all levels..

It's like if someone asked if it was possible to drive a car from New York to London, you would suggest that's as absurd as trying to build a brick house on a cloud..

If two things are impossible, then wouldn't they both be equally possible? Just because one thing is more impossible (picking a lock with a candy bar) doesn't mean that that another impossibility (wiping out an entire fortress by triggering a geologic calamity with a 700lb rock and a catapult) becomes possible.

And to be fair, I wasn't claiming a scientific high ground of any sort. I was simply pointing out that when you go beyond possible into permitting the totally impossible that you have left the realm of logic, and entered the realm of Dramatic License.

[pblackcrow]

4D4x10 seems excessive to me given getting chopped with a Zwei Hander is only 3D6. That being said, still sounds like you guys had fun. Good stuff.

So the rock hit the fortress from straight above, broke, and everyone not in cover got hit with shrapnel? Not knowing the size of the fortress, it seems somewhat plausible.

It wasn't just a one shard hit...it was multiple. I wasn't in on it, I wasn't there for it at all. My stepmother passed away.

Um, yes. Basically.

[pblackcrow]

If the hot springs aren't eating people's skins off

Um, I am assuming it could. It was used to heat the fort. But I don't know exactly how it was heated, how many hot springs we are talking about, etc. So, I don't know for sure.

[arouetta]

If the hot springs aren't eating people's skins off

Um, I am assuming it could. It was used to heat the fort. But I don't know exactly how it was heated, how many hot springs we are talking about, etc. So, I don't know for sure.

It's not the heat, it's the volcanic gasses that acidify the water. Lassen Peak has some hot springs you can't get into for that reason.

[pblackcrow]

If the hot springs aren't eating people's skins off

Um, I am assuming it could. It was used to heat the fort. But I don't know exactly how it was heated, how many hot springs we are talking about, etc. So, I don't know for sure.

It's not the heat, it's the volcanic gasses that acidify the water. Lassen Peak has some hot springs you can't get into for that reason.

Yes, and Hot Springs, NC has some that you can. As does Japan, Iceland, and thousands of other places. I have been to the one in NC.

I got your meaning.

[arouetta]

If the hot springs aren't eating people's skins off

Um, I am assuming it could. It was used to heat the fort. But I don't know exactly how it was heated, how many hot springs we are talking about, etc. So, I don't know for sure.

It's not the heat, it's the volcanic gasses that acidify the water. Lassen Peak has some hot springs you can't get into for that reason.

Yes, and Hot Springs, NC has some that you can. As does Japan, Iceland, and thousands of other places. I have been to the one in NC.

I got your meaning.

This is being said informational, not sarcastic. I know there are many, many safe springs, a lake I grew up near had mini-springs in the water and we would stand over those as the surrounding water was cold!

However in the described scenario, plugging up a vent would be a yawner, unless tremendous amounts of volcanic gasses were being released. And if they were, the air and water would be hazardous already.

[pblackcrow]

True.