Nema's 28,000 Human Troops awaken!

[dragonfett]

The Republican leader (I can't remember his name at the moment) would never accept such an arrangement. He may publicly accept it, but he would be plotting to kill Hagan and take full control of the facilities as he (the Republican leader) believes that the only person who should be in control of the factories is him.

[keir451]

The Coalition, with absolute certainty, the Federation of magic (Dunscon wants to rule the world ya know ), Splynncryth would just sit back and watch the fur fly until the victor decided to come after him the he'd pull out his ace in the hole (Dimensional forces) and push the agressor back or just out on enough of a display of power that he'd be able to negotiate permanent control of Atlantis, besides those major forces I'm not sure who else.
As for who might come to their side, I'd bet on the New Navy, as it would be easy for the New Navy to verify that they are actually NEMA troops, Lazlo & New Lazlo might side with them just to get extra protection against the CS, Northern Gun might as well esp. if they don't want to become part of the CS, the Tundra Rangers (being a Canadian NEMA base rifted forward in time) would probably side with the NEMA troops, the Director from the Republicans would view them as a threat to his power (I'd kill him off right quick). The other Native American Tribes might difficult to bring around so that's a toss up.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Scenario.

A. Archie awaken's the military they reach an accord, in which Archie does not get lobotimized, the army he keeps them supplied and geared and mobile via his many vast (and secret) factories. Hagen is seen as the equal of the General, and is also head of the complex, while the General is the head of the military arm.

B. They are equiped with the best technologies Archie has at his disposal.

C. They are supplied via archie.


How would this army effect North America and its powers ?

How many would believe them ?

Would people come to their side ?

Who would try to stop them ?

sorry the questions cant be answered because honestly we lack alot of the details, one is the general's viewpoints on the other powers, how he would react to d-bees, let alone supernatural beings.

[Mack]

And while I hate to say it, 28,000 troops isn't that significant in Rifts anymore. Not after the numbers we saw in the Siege on Tolkien. (I disagreed with the sheer quantities discussed in SoT, but they are what they are.)

And as dragonfett mentioned, I don't see those troops submitting to insane meglomanic computer.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

And while I hate to say it, 28,000 troops isn't that significant in Rifts anymore. Not after the numbers we saw in the Siege on Tolkien. (I disagreed with the sheer quantities discussed in SoT, but they are what they are.)

And as dragonfett mentioned, I don't see those troops submitting to insane meglomanic computer.

But Mack he might offer a free press for them

[ffranceschi]

And while I hate to say it, 28,000 troops isn't that significant in Rifts anymore. Not after the numbers we saw in the Siege on Tolkien. (I disagreed with the sheer quantities discussed in SoT, but they are what they are.)

And as dragonfett mentioned, I don't see those troops submitting to insane meglomanic computer.

Agreed. 28.000 are too few to upset the balance...frontal assault against the CS or Free Qeubec and they are dead...besides they are human after all and I think they will prefer to engage the Splugorth at their East Coast bases.

[Cyber-Knight]

Huh, clever quip from a guy that thinks that 30,000 free men would gladly just submit themselves to a totalitarian police state and risk "disappearing" in the middle of the night. You're the first person I've ever seen to claim that people would willingly flee TO a place like East Germany, the Soviet Union, Cuba, Nazi Germany, North Korea, or other police states.

How would this army effect North America and its powers?

It could serve as the foundation for a whole new sect within North America. Particularly if they unite with other elements listed below.

How many would believe them?

Who knows? If your village is saved from annihilation at the claws of a band of demons by a group of humans who claim to be Neemans then you're certainly not going to call them liars.

Would people come to their side?

Yes. Options include:

1) The New Navy
2) The Megaversal Legion
3) The Republicans
4) The Tundra Rangers
5) Tens of thousands of Squilb
6) Cyber-Knights
7) Lazlo (Possibly as an ally, albeit not a military ally)
True Atlanteans

Who would try to stop them?

The Coalition. Can't have people running around with more advanced technology and with knowledge of Pre-Rifts History and crazy notions like "democracy" and "freedom."

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Huh, clever quip from a guy that thinks that 30,000 free men would gladly just submit themselves to a totalitarian police state and risk "disappearing" in the middle of the night. You're the first person I've ever seen to claim that people would willingly flee TO a place like East Germany, the Soviet Union, Cuba, Nazi Germany, North Korea, or other police states.

Given the state of the world is in , compared to what it was when they went under, it's a really traumatic ordeal which most seem to just coast right over

[Nightmask]

Huh, clever quip from a guy that thinks that 30,000 free men would gladly just submit themselves to a totalitarian police state and risk "disappearing" in the middle of the night. You're the first person I've ever seen to claim that people would willingly flee TO a place like East Germany, the Soviet Union, Cuba, Nazi Germany, North Korea, or other police states.

To be fair a few people have actually been that insane, but you wouldn't find 28k pre-Cataclysm Americans ever doing it when they'd all be educated and aware what they could expect from such people. Especially when even rudimentary intelligence would reveal that the CS has a policy of executing anything that's even possibly non-human or a mage even a human mage and has a deliberately illiterate population.

[Cyber-Knight]

Yeah, a traumatic ordeal which would make them want to survive. Subjecting themselves to Coalition rule, however, is NOT going to help them survive. Odds are, they're more likely to get killed that way, given the Coalition's views on people who know too much. They killed a librarian who saw an old Pre-Rifts video on the SAMAS, proving that it was Pre-Rifts technology and not created by the Coalition. If they consider THAT bit of information dangerous, how much more dangerous would all those NEMA soldiers be based on what they know, alone, as well as their ideas which run completely contrary to Coalition society? Putting themselves under Coalition rule is just asking for an early death all alone. At least staying together as an army they can keep their weapons and protect each other.

[Tiree]

Let's say Archie does lose the battle with the Republicans - they lobotomize him.

Would those 28,000 troops follow the Republicans? Or would the Republicans follow those troops?

My gut feeling - those 28,000 troops would still be on ice. Nobody likes giving up power!

[Cyber-Knight]

Nah, the Republicans would wake them up. They've got WAY too much invested in bringing them out. As far as they're concerned those are their ancestors and all their plans depend on that army waking up. Without them they don't have any power. That being said, yeah, I imagine that Director Elliot will eventually become a problem.

[Nightmask]

Let's say Archie does lose the battle with the Republicans - they lobotomize him.

Would those 28,000 troops follow the Republicans? Or would the Republicans follow those troops?

My gut feeling - those 28,000 troops would still be on ice. Nobody likes giving up power!

You can't lobotomize ARCHIE-3, you can only kill it or disconnect it somehow and if you do either you render his entire factory complex inert. Which means you lose the ability to maintain what gear you've got that's been produced by it and the ability to produce more. So you end up with less than nothing.

[Zamion138]

they would all die shortly after being awoken and hitting the field as they dont have the anti-bodies for magic and mundane flu's colds and other desises that the current suvivors have.....
Im most playing around but it would be interesting to see what % would perish due to the above problem

[taalismn]

Typical Rifts Earth peasant to Defroasted NEMA Soldier: "What makes you any different from any of the other armored and armed soldier-types running around? What can you do for me and mine NOW? You talk big, but later? You gonna hit me up for tribute...or 'taxes'? To pay for 'my defense'? Hey, don't judge me because if what I have to do to get by! My family and my ancestors did what they had to to scrape by! What did yours do? Oh right, they slept through it all! Big whooppedy do! So you got big ideas! The worst ones always do! Now get out of my cornfield!"

(Cue the 'Peasants' Collective' scene from 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail').

[Chronicle]

I think the leader of the frozen army would look around at his options

One being a "Giant Souche"

and the other a "Turd Sandwich"

The he will say "Put me back in the fridge"

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Does Archie has the number of bathrooms to deal with the number of people get defrosted, and will Archie stand for people using his home like a bar bathroom

[taalismn]

Does Archie has the number of bathrooms to deal with the number of people get defrosted, and will Archie stand for people using his home like a bar bathroom

That agonized metallic groan is the sound of an entire automated production line shifting from producing high-tech semi-autonomous combat robots to manufacturing porta-potties.

[Hotrod]

Austin Powers wake-up scene times 28,000. That's a lot of pee.

[taalismn]

Austin Powers wake-up scene times 28,000. That's a lot of pee.

"Hagan? Grab a plunger; I need your help."

[Mech-Viper Prime]

What's the ratio of men to women in the number 28,000

[Mack]

Does not matter, as Archie can create any amount of Soilder's that may be needed

Exactly how does Archie create humans?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

What's the ratio of men to women in the number 28,000

Does not matter, as Archie can create any amount of Soilder's that may be needed
More troops brought to bere then the Coalition, and at a faster pace, higher quality!

Really? Archie has a clone lab now too?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Really? Archie has a clone lab now too?

Cloning would take month's or years, Archie could simply out produce
any nation on Rifts North America, for Bots. Of a higher quality, then
anyone else too.

Really? I must have missed that, don't have a page number for that do you?

[Cyber-Knight]

I don't know about numbers, but ARCHIE's robots are certainly better. He's created the lifelike Shemarrian Warriors and Argent Steel. Nobody else in North America is remotely capable of performing such a feat. He's even created his own fake Skelebots. Copies so perfect that they're undetectable by the Coalition. His robots are so advanced that they're considered alien technology, and that was before he was able to reverse engineer Mechanoid technology.

[taalismn]

I don't know about numbers, but ARCHIE's robots are certainly better. He's created the lifelike Shemarrian Warriors and Argent Steel. Nobody else in North America is remotely capable of performing such a feat. He's even created his own fake Skelebots. Copies so perfect that they're undetectable by the Coalition. His robots are so advanced that they're considered alien technology, and that was before he was able to reverse engineer Mechanoid technology.

And Skelebots just aren't that sophisticated(by Rifts standards). Plus the CS deliberately made them to be mass produced disposable units. Nobody except for necrotechnophiles are going to pay much attention to the drones.

[gaby]

Well When is How I see it,when Nema will have a distaste for The CS,they will not blindly Attack it,The CS is still the Bigest Human Population in North America,Nema would have to be Idiots to put that a Risk!They will known Not Human empires will take Advantage if they,start a War with CS,One of ther main Goals will be Humankind,s survival.
I say they will be more logical,Work with Archie and Hagan Gathering intelligence,see what D-Bees,Demons and Empire are a Danger,to Human control of North America.
I see them taking down the Xiticix,the FoM,Vampires and Demons before ever trying to Undermine the Proseks.
Thesis People a Smart,and take a long term view for the survival of Humankind.

[taalismn]

And what of the Cyber Knights? Would they ally themselves to such a Force, for Good justice and the American way ?

Given the strain the Tolkeen War put on the overall integrity of the CyberKnights, I imagine it would be on a individual basis whether the Cyberknights would align with NEMA Reborn. They(the true-blue dyed-in-the-wool CyberKnight idealists)'d want the NEMAists to hold true to Constitutional(and I'm sure a few of the CKs have come across copies of that document, as well as the Bill of Rights, studied them, and made them their own) ideals applying to EVERY sentient freedom-loving being and would look askance at legal loopholing or ethical cheeseparing. They'd ideally set themselves up as advisors, showing the Lost Army 'how things are today'. However, signs of prejudice or the usual behavior of mercenary armies would strain, if not completely sever, relations between the CyberKnights and their NEMA allies.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Somehow I think the head of lone star is more tougher on security then the folks doing the containment earth security. So Archie breaking in might be tougher then most then, he might find old Doc Bradford more scary then the mechinoids and a lot more useful then hagan could ever be, but he would have break Archie first.

[taalismn]

Somehow I think the head of lone star is more tougher on security then the folks doing the containment earth security. So Archie breaking in might be tougher then most then, he might find old Doc Bradford more scary then the mechinoids and a lot more useful then hagan could ever be, but he would have break Archie first.

Bradford's less a machine person....after all, ANYBODY can design a machine...he's, like a proper god, into the manipulation of LIFE. Machines don't owe their lives to you, or worship you, but genetically engineered lifeforms have that potential of paying homage to their maker. The fact that ARCHIE-3 needs an 'idea man' would relegate the toaster, in Bradford's mind, to little more than a well-trained horse doing a 'Clever Hans' routine(i.e., taking cues from a handler), even with A3's psychic abilities.

[DhAkael]

Somehow I think the head of lone star is more tougher on security then the folks doing the containment earth security. So Archie breaking in might be tougher then most then, he might find old Doc Bradford more scary then the mechinoids and a lot more useful then hagan could ever be, but he would have break Archie first.

Bradford's less a machine person....after all, ANYBODY can design a machine...he's, like a proper god, into the manipulation of LIFE. Machines don't owe their lives to you, or worship you, but genetically engineered lifeforms have that potential of paying homage to their maker. The fact that ARCHIE-3 needs an 'idea man' would relegate the toaster, in Bradford's mind, to little more than a well-trained horse doing a 'Clever Hans' routine(i.e., taking cues from a handler), even with A3's psychic abilities.

TRUTH!

[Nightmask]

Somehow I think the head of lone star is more tougher on security then the folks doing the containment earth security. So Archie breaking in might be tougher then most then, he might find old Doc Bradford more scary then the mechinoids and a lot more useful then hagan could ever be, but he would have break Archie first.

Bradford's less a machine person....after all, ANYBODY can design a machine...he's, like a proper god, into the manipulation of LIFE. Machines don't owe their lives to you, or worship you, but genetically engineered lifeforms have that potential of paying homage to their maker. The fact that ARCHIE-3 needs an 'idea man' would relegate the toaster, in Bradford's mind, to little more than a well-trained horse doing a 'Clever Hans' routine(i.e., taking cues from a handler), even with A3's psychic abilities.

A point of clarification, ARCHIE-3 doesn't need an 'idea man', but in regards to ideas for things to build it helps having another creative mind supporting it. I get the impression some think ARCHIE-3 is somehow incapable of coming up with new ideas and plans which isn't the case.

[Looonatic]

And while I hate to say it, 28,000 troops isn't that significant in Rifts anymore. Not after the numbers we saw in the Siege on Tolkien. (I disagreed with the sheer quantities discussed in SoT, but they are what they are.)

And as dragonfett mentioned, I don't see those troops submitting to insane meglomanic computer.

Agreed. 28.000 are too few to upset the balance...frontal assault against the CS or Free Qeubec and they are dead...besides they are human after all and I think they will prefer to engage the Splugorth at their East Coast bases.

28,000 humans and however many robots Archie can manufacture. How many robots is that?

[Cyber-Knight]

28,000 humans and however many robots Archie can manufacture. How many robots is that?

Yeah, how many robots IS that? Is it stated anywhere in any book how many robots ARCHIE has at his disposal?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Somehow I think the head of lone star is more tougher on security then the folks doing the containment earth security. So Archie breaking in might be tougher then most then, he might find old Doc Bradford more scary then the mechinoids and a lot more useful then hagan could ever be, but he would have break Archie first.

Despite All your bravado about the man. Archie is Still Smarter then he is. And his psychic abilities negate any security he would have. For god sakes, if a CHIMPANZEE SCIENTIST CAN BREAK LONESTAR SECURITY... Archie can do it much more simply. The only reason he hasn't copied cloning centers is that he has no NEED for it, and, with the mechanoid invasion attempt, He may already have human cloning facilities available.
The only reason Hagan hasn't gone along with that plan, is that HE himself thinks himself a god, and not a human, and sees cloning as lowly.also note, the various BS articles about Cryptography that did appear in the rifter get many things wrong. Any encryption scheme a regular human can break, can be broken just as quickly, easily with an IQ of 300. All it requires is math that wasn't invented yet (BACK WHEN RIFTS WAS MADE).
(yes, that means even the vaulted Time key based encryption, as they discussed, is breakable, and would be common knowledge among tech super powers and not this impossible Bs that the Coaltion supposedly has. if BS power can invent machines that are totally tamper proof (which is IMO, Impossible, unless you can program some sort of psychic link into machines, which, YOU CAN NOT, Such as the recent articles about archie's imitator mages, and new " you can't use any power from the main books to stop" implants shouldn't be able to exist (Imo, i blame poor ideas/the Writers) for this).. then breaking into Lonestar's labs, and hacking what ever computers he may have, or bio computers... would be a cinch.

I heard you because Bradford wouldn't have any security to deal with psychic beings, no wait he would, just because the nature of stuff he is doing, but hey you put a lot of faith in the little insane toaster, But against Bradford,Archie would end up his servant.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Somehow I think the head of lone star is more tougher on security then the folks doing the containment earth security. So Archie breaking in might be tougher then most then, he might find old Doc Bradford more scary then the mechinoids and a lot more useful then hagan could ever be, but he would have break Archie first.

Bradford's less a machine person....after all, ANYBODY can design a machine...he's, like a proper god, into the manipulation of LIFE. Machines don't owe their lives to you, or worship you, but genetically engineered lifeforms have that potential of paying homage to their maker. The fact that ARCHIE-3 needs an 'idea man' would relegate the toaster, in Bradford's mind, to little more than a well-trained horse doing a 'Clever Hans' routine(i.e., taking cues from a handler), even with A3's psychic abilities.

A point of clarification, ARCHIE-3 doesn't need an 'idea man', but in regards to ideas for things to build it helps having another creative mind supporting it. I get the impression some think ARCHIE-3 is somehow incapable of coming up with new ideas and plans which isn't the case.

If that was true, then Archie would already control north America via nano droids, but his current idea thinks a lot more on the big scale of thing. But hey find the page and quote that states otherwise, then you might have a cae

[taalismn]

Depends. A3 is quite clever, true, and could churn out his own designs, but I think that he suffers an undeclared lack of self-confidence when it comes to more radical and innovative ideas(beyond that of him becoming a machine god, that is). He needs somebody else as his support and mental crutch when it comes to such(though he doesn't see it in those terms and would kill anybody who suggested such was the case).
In any case, Bradford's a biology man and wouldn't be likely to think much of a machine aping human behavior. If course, if Bradford bought the whole 'ARCHIE -OZ' brain-scam he MIGHT see things differently, but at the same time he'd REALLY want a cell sample(or whole lobe sample) of that big brain for his own study.

[Hystrix]

28,000 humans and however many robots Archie can manufacture. How many robots is that?

Yeah, how many robots IS that? Is it stated anywhere in any book how many robots ARCHIE has at his disposal?

If you add up the numbers in Rifts Sourcebook One Revised, and Shemerrian Nation then we are talking about 40,000+ bots.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Depends. A3 is quite clever, true, and could churn out his own designs, but I think that he suffers an undeclared lack of self-confidence when it comes to more radical and innovative ideas(beyond that of him becoming a machine god, that is). He needs somebody else as his support and mental crutch when it comes to such(though he doesn't see it in those terms and would kill anybody who suggested such was the case).
In any case, Bradford's a biology man and wouldn't be likely to think much of a machine aping human behavior. If course, if Bradford bought the whole 'ARCHIE -OZ' brain-scam he MIGHT see things differently, but at the same time he'd REALLY want a cell sample(or whole lobe sample) of that big brain for his own study.

Oz part might tip him off

[Looonatic]

28,000 humans and however many robots Archie can manufacture. How many robots is that?

Yeah, how many robots IS that? Is it stated anywhere in any book how many robots ARCHIE has at his disposal?

If you add up the numbers in Rifts Sourcebook One Revised, and Shemerrian Nation then we are talking about 40,000+ bots.

That might be how many he has, but not how many he makes. From the descriptions provided, Archie-3 uses only a scant fraction of his manufacturing capabilities.

[Looonatic]

The books mention he can make 10,000 bots a month. Mechanoid
cloning facilities that he still has allow 10 times that number.

Where is this at ?

And might I add HOLY COW !! Thats 100,000 he could create (is this his max?)

He would probably need a constant influx of material and resources to maintain that pace for the long term.

[DhAkael]

He would probably need a constant influx of material and resources to
maintain that pace for the long term

If Shemarrian Nation is to be believed, Archie might well be thee single most
economically stable economy on North America.

It goes into depth of how he has vast storages of resources, how he finds them, buys
them, and everything.

Here is a hint, Literally decades of income coming in and ZERO outflow unless you want
it to, (buying of resources, such as raw materials)

His Titan Robotic's is 100% completely overhead income with out question. His ability
to produce Glitterboy's and sell them if he so chooses. (Decades of this with ease)

His vast robot legion of resource hunters to help out all his needs.

To put it bluntly, Archie has more resources at his disposal according to Shemarrian
Nation's as every other manufacturer of weapons in North America combined

I just had zero clue on how many bots he could produce a month 100,000 combat troops
in a month is just insane, No nation (save altantis) could compete with that.

Yeah; the numbers are insane...

[kogwar]

I could see the forces with the support of the republicans eventually merging and taking over the cs (it may take awhile like decades awhile depending on resistance from the emperor) but i see them and there super tech ( while they may be few in number they have access to some of the best tech one rifts earth and recruiting would not be hard I mean look at the numbers in the pecos empire) they probably would just find a chunk of land and settle it to build a base of operations and expand from there.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

He would probably need a constant influx of material and resources to
maintain that pace for the long term

If Shemarrian Nation is to be believed, Archie might well be thee single most
economically stable economy on North America.

It goes into depth of how he has vast storages of resources, how he finds them, buys
them, and everything.

Here is a hint, Literally decades of income coming in and ZERO outflow unless you want
it to, (buying of resources, such as raw materials)

His Titan Robotic's is 100% completely overhead income with out question. His ability
to produce Glitterboy's and sell them if he so chooses. (Decades of this with ease)

His vast robot legion of resource hunters to help out all his needs.

To put it bluntly, Archie has more resources at his disposal according to Shemarrian
Nation's as every other manufacturer of weapons in North America combined

I just had zero clue on how many bots he could produce a month 100,000 combat troops
in a month is just insane, No nation (save altantis) could compete with that.

well depending on where he is getting his resources, he might get notice, buying it on the open market , in large numbers he might get notice, but if he is doing on the downlow , with robot workers in underground mining or underwater mining operation, he could have an army which most wouldnt know about until its too late.

[Hystrix]

It's not his max, The 10,000 number is how many he can make at Aberdeen.
Archie has created 4 more facilities including one that is underwater.
by canon, (Read through the Rifters, particularly the Ardent one) The
cloning faciilites left by the mechanoids allow for 10 x as many.

So are you telling me that archie could produce 40,000 robots a month.

Prior to the mechanoid invasion, at which point he can now produce 10x
that number to an incredible 400k per month ?

I think at 400k bots a month you have to start questioning the resouces Archie has in order to make that many.

Yes, I know the CS produce rediculous amounts of stuff, but this would put Archie over that. Maybe he could if the resouces were available, but maintaing that level of production might not be something he can do long term.

[taalismn]

400,000 robots a month would be enough production rate, to literally take out the Coalition's military in 6 month's time.

Not even sweatin to the oldies either.

"These robots are made out of cardboard!"
"It's numbers that count, Hagan, numbers. I was originally designed and programmed during an election year."

[Kagashi]

After considering A3s production capabilities (assuming he had the raw materials to build them all), in one month, 28k frozen human troops are nothing to even add to the equation. A3 doesnt even need the NEMA troops.

[Hystrix]

think at 400k bots a month you have to start questioning the resouces
Archie has in order to make that many.

Shemarrian Nation goes in depth to show you just how vast
Archie's resources are, and that is why I can say with out hesitation
or much thought that Archie has resources to do anything he wants.

it actually goes into vast depth to show you how he has soo much resouces
that it is a logical jump with out any stretch of the imagination to think
he is more then capable enough to do this.

Source?

I've read Shemerrian Nation as well. I haven't seen anything that implies he can create a staggering 4.8 million robots a year!

I'm not surprised to read this considering, but I don't buy it.

[Hystrix]

Source?

I've read Shemerrian Nation as well. I haven't seen anything that implies he can create a staggering 4.8 million robots a year!

I'm not surprised to read this considering, but I don't buy it.

Already stated in the post you quoted.

The number's are canon. His resources are equally solid as well. Archie appear's to be thee only power on north american soil, with the backing to support what is written about him. Resource wise.

No you didn't. How about a page number? I'm not scowering a whole book looking for an answer just because you say it's there.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

My question is if they could cause Archie to go into a dream state how come they just didn't take him off line too? Must be the hand of god the protects coalition, also protects archie too