So what American remnants still exist on Rifts Earth?

[Nether]

And what makes you think unleashing a force like this might be a good thing. A general who only has to answer to himself, somehow they just might start a new kingdom one based on military vs a civilian one.
A place like the coalition states might look more appealing, to a military, easy rules to follow, I can see the coalition helping them if they follow the coalition rules, or form some type of alliance for food and other needs. While some might think otherwise, but remember the rules have changed and out of 28 thousand soldiers a number of them would accept coalition rule if it gives them a chance to have a somewhat normal life.

I dont know about that, I would think if they were going to join anyone it would be the New Navy mainly because they are the closest thing to what they new, the last vestige of the American empire assuming they find out about each other. Also for how an American soldier should think ext I can't see them accepting the CS very easily.

Not to mention you have 30,000 people that are jam packed full of pre rifts knowledge, that same knowledge the CS has banned and prosecute for, they are also all literate, and they follow ideals that some of, would be stripped from them in CS society. Especially when they could make base as an army, maybe even 'take' over Archie facilities that they get out of automatically giving them some strong capabilities and then scout and decide what or who they want to be a part of / ally. Once they hear about the NN they would prolly try to become thier "land" aspect or Army for them.

I could really see this going this way and honestly I am thinking of a campaign to do this. The players could be a NEMA trooper or something from Chaos Earth that could reasonably fit in with them say if they want to play a mage or psychic, but make them NEMA.
Lots to do for a campaign, survive reanimation, reclaim factory from archie, fight for land, encounter dbee force, fight a CS recon force, some Fed of Magic jerks show up from Dunscon demanding allegiance that you have to punch in the face, then find the other pre rifts factions and decide where to go, who to join and I would push the NN. Besides this would also bring the NN out and be a bit more and starts the restoration of sorts of the American empire.

i thought that too at first but they might veiw the new navy are traitors and deserters becuase the one thing they didnt do that they easy could have establish a major foothold in north america and try to reclaim former united states

I dont see that as traitorous action, maybe conservative but not traitorous.

[Cyber-Knight]

i thought that too at first but they might veiw the new navy are traitors and deserters becuase the one thing they didnt do that they easy could have establish a major foothold in north america and try to reclaim former united states

So in other words... they'd criticize the New Navy for doing the exact same thing they did? Wait out the worst of the crisis and emerge stronger? And the New Navy does have two cities which they protect, in addition to guarding the oceans, so it's not as if they've spent those 300 years laying around on a beach sipping Margarita's.

I'm having a hard time understanding your reasoning here, though. The NEMA army awakens, they learn of the Coalition and the New Navy, but in your view they'd tell the New Navy to go screw themselves and would instead risk death and enslavement to submit themselves to the rule of a fascist police state? Is that the conclusion you came to? Because that's not even remotely logical. If they new about the New Navy then there's absolutely nothing at all that would stop them from allying together.

1) The New Navy offers civilian life in their two cities which are free of the restrictions they'd encounter in the Coalition (I.E. They don't have to worry about "disappearing" in the middle of the night because they know too much about Rifts Pre-History).
2) The New Navy shares the same ideals and principles which they do.
3) The New Navy would be willing to meet them as equals and allow them to keep their equipment and their weaponry, whereas the Coalition would immediately demand that they disarm themselves, as they're intolerant of anyone wielding equipment more advanced than their own.

There's no sensible reason whatsoever why NEMA would ever side with the Coalition, period. It shouldn't even be a question that they'd team up with the New Navy if the opportunity presented itself. They'd jump at it in a heartbeat.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

And what makes you think unleashing a force like this might be a good thing. A general who only has to answer to himself, somehow they just might start a new kingdom one based on military vs a civilian one.
A place like the coalition states might look more appealing, to a military, easy rules to follow, I can see the coalition helping them if they follow the coalition rules, or form some type of alliance for food and other needs. While some might think otherwise, but remember the rules have changed and out of 28 thousand soldiers a number of them would accept coalition rule if it gives them a chance to have a somewhat normal life.

I dont know about that, I would think if they were going to join anyone it would be the New Navy mainly because they are the closest thing to what they new, the last vestige of the American empire assuming they find out about each other. Also for how an American soldier should think ext I can't see them accepting the CS very easily.

Not to mention you have 30,000 people that are jam packed full of pre rifts knowledge, that same knowledge the CS has banned and prosecute for, they are also all literate, and they follow ideals that some of, would be stripped from them in CS society. Especially when they could make base as an army, maybe even 'take' over Archie facilities that they get out of automatically giving them some strong capabilities and then scout and decide what or who they want to be a part of / ally. Once they hear about the NN they would prolly try to become thier "land" aspect or Army for them.

I could really see this going this way and honestly I am thinking of a campaign to do this. The players could be a NEMA trooper or something from Chaos Earth that could reasonably fit in with them say if they want to play a mage or psychic, but make them NEMA.
Lots to do for a campaign, survive reanimation, reclaim factory from archie, fight for land, encounter dbee force, fight a CS recon force, some Fed of Magic jerks show up from Dunscon demanding allegiance that you have to punch in the face, then find the other pre rifts factions and decide where to go, who to join and I would push the NN. Besides this would also bring the NN out and be a bit more and starts the restoration of sorts of the American empire.

i thought that too at first but they might veiw the new navy are traitors and deserters becuase the one thing they didnt do that they easy could have establish a major foothold in north america and try to reclaim former united states

I dont see that as traitorous action, maybe conservative but not traitorous.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

the fact they havent made contact with any US or NEMA officers and yes the Republicans CIA director does fall into that.

[Cyber-Knight]

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

the fact they havent made contact with any US or NEMA officers and yes the Republicans CIA director does fall into that.

Wow, you really do have a peculiar thought process, don't you?

1) The Republican Director is completely unknown to the New Navy. They're a secret society, emphasis on the word "secret". They can't make contact with someone they don't know exists.
2) Communications broke down worldwide. They had no way of getting in touch with any other forces, especially in the early days of the apocalypse.
3) They obviously aren't deserters as they've spent the better part of 300 years defending the Earth.

Moreover, you're using that as an excuse for them to join the Coalition of all people? Let's repeat the salient part of that oath, again.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States

It isn't the bearer of that piece of paper which they swear to defend (And even if it were, it's safe to say that it's the Republicans who're holding the Constitution. They have the Declaration of Independence, at any rate), but the ideas written upon that piece of paper. As such they're sworn to defend principles such as...

- Freedom of Speech
- Freedom of the Press
- Freedom of Religion
- Freedom to Protest
- Freedom to Petition the Government

The Coalition is opposed to every single one of those points. So do you really think it makes more sense that the NEMA troops would turn their backs on the New Navy because they couldn't make contact with other US forces in the aftermath of the apocalypse, but kept fighting for 300 years, but would throw in heart and soul with people who spit on everything they've ever stood for? Is that the argument?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

i thought that too at first but they might veiw the new navy are traitors and deserters becuase the one thing they didnt do that they easy could have establish a major foothold in north america and try to reclaim former united states

So in other words... they'd criticize the New Navy for doing the exact same thing they did? Wait out the worst of the crisis and emerge stronger? And the New Navy does have two cities which they protect, in addition to guarding the oceans, so it's not as if they've spent those 300 years laying around on a beach sipping Margarita's.

I'm having a hard time understanding your reasoning here, though. The NEMA army awakens, they learn of the Coalition and the New Navy, but in your view they'd tell the New Navy to go screw themselves and would instead risk death and enslavement to submit themselves to the rule of a fascist police state? Is that the conclusion you came to? Because that's not even remotely logical. If they new about the New Navy then there's absolutely nothing at all that would stop them from allying together.

1) The New Navy offers civilian life in their two cities which are free of the restrictions they'd encounter in the Coalition (I.E. They don't have to worry about "disappearing" in the middle of the night because they know too much about Rifts Pre-History).
2) The New Navy shares the same ideals and principles which they do.
3) The New Navy would be willing to meet them as equals and allow them to keep their equipment and their weaponry, whereas the Coalition would immediately demand that they disarm themselves, as they're intolerant of anyone wielding equipment more advanced than their own.

There's no sensible reason whatsoever why NEMA would ever side with the Coalition, period. It shouldn't even be a question that they'd team up with the New Navy if the opportunity presented itself. They'd jump at it in a heartbeat.

alot of factors come into play.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

the fact they havent made contact with any US or NEMA officers and yes the Republicans CIA director does fall into that.

Wow, you really do have a peculiar thought process, don't you?

1) The Republican Director is completely unknown to the New Navy. They're a secret society, emphasis on the word "secret". They can't make contact with someone they don't know exists.
2) Communications broke down worldwide. They had no way of getting in touch with any other forces, especially in the early days of the apocalypse.
3) They obviously aren't deserters as they've spent the better part of 300 years defending the Earth.

Moreover, you're using that as an excuse for them to join the Coalition of all people? Let's repeat the salient part of that oath, again.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States

It isn't the bearer of that piece of paper which they swear to defend (And even if it were, it's safe to say that it's the Republicans who're holding the Constitution. They have the Declaration of Independence, at any rate), but the ideas written upon that piece of paper. As such they're sworn to defend principles such as...

- Freedom of Speech
- Freedom of the Press
- Freedom of Religion
- Freedom to Protest
- Freedom to Petition the Government

The Coalition is opposed to every single one of those points. So do you really think it makes more sense that the NEMA troops would turn their backs on the New Navy because they couldn't make contact with other US forces in the aftermath of the apocalypse, but kept fighting for 300 years, but would throw in heart and soul with people who spit on everything they've ever stood for? Is that the argument?

like i said before the coalition is one of the few human nations that can take that many people and feed them. but like i said before the rules have change those freedoms are good if someone is willing to fight for them last time i check rifts earth wasnt a friendly place to be human and out of time, but odds are they will end up in the slave pits in atlantis.

just one question how many of the soldiers do you think will stand fighting under the NEMA banner.

[Cyber-Knight]

Certainly, but I can't see any factor one can reasonably point to and say "NEMA would never work with the New Navy because of that", especially not while pointing at the Coalition and saying "NEMA will eagerly join the Coalition despite all of that."

The simple fact of the matter is that if it were a choice between the Coalition and the New Navy then the Coalition would lose every single time. And that's not the only scenario in which the Coalition would lose.

Coalition Vs. NEMA working as a mercenary company (a la' Larsen's Brigade): Coalition Loses.
Coalition Vs. Carving out their own kingdom: Coalition loses.
Coalition Vs. Taking over ARCHIE-3 and fortifying ARCHIE's bunkers: Coalition loses.
Coalition Vs. Taking up residence in Lazlo: Coalition loses.

Simply put, there're no reasonable scenario under which NEMA wouldn't want to join forces with the New Navy, much less pass up a chance to join the New Navy in favor of the Coalition. And even if the New Navy weren't an option and were completely off the table, that doesn't mean that the NEMA army has to throw in with the Coalition, as they're more than powerful enough all on their own to make their own mark on Rifts Earth all while keeping their freedom. Trying to join the Coalition is almost nothing but downside for them with next to nothing in the way of an upside.

like i said before the coalition is one of the few human nations that can take that many people and feed them.

They're not the only one. There's also Ishpheming, the Manistique Imperium, Free Quebec (Which would be FAR more acceptable than Chi-Town!), as well as places like Lazlo and New Lazlo (Once again, NEMA have teamed up with D-Bee's during the worst of the Dark Ages). And that's just a few names. There're plenty of other places where they could make a home if necessary. The Coalition States doesn't make up the sum total of all human life on North America. There're plenty more people outside, many of which are reasonably safe and protected. Larsen's Brigade, for instance, is a mercenary army of about 8,000 people and they get along just fine, as do all the other named mercenary companies from Rifts: Mercenaries, as well as all the countless unnamed mercenary companies. Other organizations are able to survive on their own without Coalition support, and they're nowhere near as well-trained and equipped, so NEMA could easily survive in North America on their own.

but like i said before the rules have change those freedoms are good if someone is willing to fight for them last time i check rifts earth wasnt a friendly place to be human and out of time, but odds are they will end up in the slave pits in atlantis.

On what do you base these odds? 30,000 NEMA troops are probably roughly equivalent to an army of about 50,000 Coalition troops, given that their gear is more advanced. Do the Splugorth frequently abduct 50,000 Coalition soldiers in one shot? Because if that's the case then NO ONE is safe anywhere. How in the world does the Coalition army survive if Splugorth Slavers are THAT much of a threat? How does Larsen's Brigade, which numbers around 8,000 and isn't nearly as well-armed as NEMA survive out in the wilderness? How does Crow's Commandoes, which numbers about 150 survive? How do Braddock's Bad Boys, who number about 1,000 survive without the protection of the Coalition? Where do you get this notion that only the Coalition can possibly survive against Splugorth Slavers? Are the Splugorth allergic to death's head motifs? Is that why they haven't been able to abduct all the Coalition soldiers hanging around the ruins of Tolkeen? Because there's no good reason whatsoever why Crow's Commandoes, Larsen's Brigade, Braddock's Bad Boys, and Coalition armies numbering 50,000 soldiers or less can survive out in the wilds without getting hauled off to Atlantis while an army of 30,000 NEMA soldiers, who're far better equipped than all of those forces, would somehow be easy pickings.

just one question how many of the soldiers do you think will stand fighting under the NEMA banner.

Probably just about all of them. If anything, the situation would give them more reason to stick together, not less.

[Blue_Lion]

Nightmask, you are sentient, but if I give you "downers" you will still feel tired, likewise, if I open your head with surgery (and know what I am doing) I can trigger memories, feelings, even physical responses.

Are you saying just because you are sentient you cant be made do do things against your will by someone diddling your brain?

Why should A.R.C.H.I.E. Three be any different?

Because our brains aren't the same for one, because it's no longer a 'dumb' machine controlled by programming and backdoors for another. From a storytelling point it'd also be massively anti-climatic that someone could just pull up some old back door commands and 'poof' this super-intelligence that's been running a secret empire from behind the scenes is now just some dumb slave to someone else (whether the PC group or someone else). You can't hack and dominate a cyborg or Machine Person why then should you get to have a cheap way to gain untold power with a few computer commands?[/quote]

OK so what happens when i do this. *hits night mask in the groin with a golf club.* Now at this point most males hit like that unaware it whould happen will curl up in a ball and, or grab there groin.

That is because our brains and reflexes are hard wired for X. A less painfull example is how some people listing to running water need to use the bath room.

The same is true for archie 3 his brain is wired to react to certain thing. They can use that to make him do something when he is not aware of the attempt. If he was watching the line and the tried it he whould shut it down. He may be self aware but his core has certain things built into it. They mearly exploit that fact.

Sorry about the hit in the groin.

[Nightmask]

Nightmask, you are sentient, but if I give you "downers" you will still feel tired, likewise, if I open your head with surgery (and know what I am doing) I can trigger memories, feelings, even physical responses.

Are you saying just because you are sentient you cant be made do do things against your will by someone diddling your brain?

Why should A.R.C.H.I.E. Three be any different?

Because our brains aren't the same for one, because it's no longer a 'dumb' machine controlled by programming and backdoors for another. From a storytelling point it'd also be massively anti-climatic that someone could just pull up some old back door commands and 'poof' this super-intelligence that's been running a secret empire from behind the scenes is now just some dumb slave to someone else (whether the PC group or someone else). You can't hack and dominate a cyborg or Machine Person why then should you get to have a cheap way to gain untold power with a few computer commands?

OK so what happens when i do this. *hits night mask in the groin with a golf club.* Now at this point most males hit like that unaware it whould happen will curl up in a ball and, or grab there groin.

That is because our brains and reflexes are hard wired for X. A less painfull example is how some people listing to running water need to use the bath room.

The same is true for archie 3 his brain is wired to react to certain thing. They can use that to make him do something when he is not aware of the attempt. If he was watching the line and the tried it he whould shut it down. He may be self aware but his core has certain things built into it. They mearly exploit that fact.

Sorry about the hit in the groin.

Yeah, if you wanted to be taken seriously that was most certainly not the way to do it.

[keir451]

I don't know how otheres view NEMA, but I, personally, at least give them the credit of being smart about things. IMO the NEMA General would probably request intelligence first and use that to assess the situation. He might actually see Lazlo as an ally as these soldiers are not the xenophobes the CS are. Secondly; the NEMA General (IMO) would NOT recognize the Republican's Director as being in any position of authority over him mostly because the Director has no legitimate gov't backing, the NEMA troops would (again IMO) see the New Navy as allies and recognize the name "Dobson" (Nemo's father WAS a U.S. Navy Captain before the coming of the Rifts and would be in the General's intel files). Also
A far as ARCHIE 3 goes, that's a difficult question; on one hand he's now become a fully sentient being, BUT on the other hand he IS still, in part, a military grade AI so there would be computer codes that he technically should obey, BUT because he's now sentient he has an even greater chance of being able to resist them. That may be why he's aware of the actions of the Republicans, even if he thinks it's a dream. It is also My Opinion that the NEMA General would NOT shut down Archie, but instead work with Archie. My reasoning (flawed tho' it may be) is that Archie has been suffering from a form of PTSD for a LOOOOOONG time and may need "counselling", but the General will also realize that he NEEDS Archie's network of 'bots and Archie himself to run the factories.
The other question is who succeeds as President? The last President and V.P. are dead as well as all members of the gov't, the succession goes from President to V.P to Speaker of the House, Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of Defense, Attorney General, Secretary of the Interior, Secretary of Agriculture, Secretary of Commerce, Secretary of Labor, Secretary of Health and Human Services, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Secretary of Transportation, Secretary of Energy, Secretary of Education, Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Secretary of Homeland Security. The only remnant of the odl U.S. that has a President is the New Navy (the books say he's merely Pres. of one of the cities, but I don't buy that), so that "President" might wind up as "THE President". I also note the ABSENCE of any mention of the CIA Director being in this list, nor has the CIA Director (to the best of my knowledge) listed as a "Superior Officer".

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Certainly, but I can't see any factor one can reasonably point to and say "NEMA would never work with the New Navy because of that", especially not while pointing at the Coalition and saying "NEMA will eagerly join the Coalition despite all of that."

The simple fact of the matter is that if it were a choice between the Coalition and the New Navy then the Coalition would lose every single time. And that's not the only scenario in which the Coalition would lose.

Coalition Vs. NEMA working as a mercenary company (a la' Larsen's Brigade): Coalition Loses.
Coalition Vs. Carving out their own kingdom: Coalition loses.
Coalition Vs. Taking over ARCHIE-3 and fortifying ARCHIE's bunkers: Coalition loses.
Coalition Vs. Taking up residence in Lazlo: Coalition loses.

Simply put, there're no reasonable scenario under which NEMA wouldn't want to join forces with the New Navy, much less pass up a chance to join the New Navy in favor of the Coalition. And even if the New Navy weren't an option and were completely off the table, that doesn't mean that the NEMA army has to throw in with the Coalition, as they're more than powerful enough all on their own to make their own mark on Rifts Earth all while keeping their freedom. Trying to join the Coalition is almost nothing but downside for them with next to nothing in the way of an upside.

like i said before the coalition is one of the few human nations that can take that many people and feed them.

They're not the only one. There's also Ishpheming, the Manistique Imperium, Free Quebec (Which would be FAR more acceptable than Chi-Town!), as well as places like Lazlo and New Lazlo (Once again, NEMA have teamed up with D-Bee's during the worst of the Dark Ages). And that's just a few names. There're plenty of other places where they could make a home if necessary. The Coalition States doesn't make up the sum total of all human life on North America. There're plenty more people outside, many of which are reasonably safe and protected. Larsen's Brigade, for instance, is a mercenary army of about 8,000 people and they get along just fine, as do all the other named mercenary companies from Rifts: Mercenaries, as well as all the countless unnamed mercenary companies. Other organizations are able to survive on their own without Coalition support, and they're nowhere near as well-trained and equipped, so NEMA could easily survive in North America on their own.

but like i said before the rules have change those freedoms are good if someone is willing to fight for them last time i check rifts earth wasnt a friendly place to be human and out of time, but odds are they will end up in the slave pits in atlantis.

On what do you base these odds? 30,000 NEMA troops are probably roughly equivalent to an army of about 50,000 Coalition troops, given that their gear is more advanced. Do the Splugorth frequently abduct 50,000 Coalition soldiers in one shot? Because if that's the case then NO ONE is safe anywhere. How in the world does the Coalition army survive if Splugorth Slavers are THAT much of a threat? How does Larsen's Brigade, which numbers around 8,000 and isn't nearly as well-armed as NEMA survive out in the wilderness? How does Crow's Commandoes, which numbers about 150 survive? How do Braddock's Bad Boys, who number about 1,000 survive without the protection of the Coalition? Where do you get this notion that only the Coalition can possibly survive against Splugorth Slavers? Are the Splugorth allergic to death's head motifs? Is that why they haven't been able to abduct all the Coalition soldiers hanging around the ruins of Tolkeen? Because there's no good reason whatsoever why Crow's Commandoes, Larsen's Brigade, Braddock's Bad Boys, and Coalition armies numbering 50,000 soldiers or less can survive out in the wilds without getting hauled off to Atlantis while an army of 30,000 NEMA soldiers, who're far better equipped than all of those forces, would somehow be easy pickings.

just one question how many of the soldiers do you think will stand fighting under the NEMA banner.

Probably just about all of them. If anything, the situation would give them more reason to stick together, not less.

well apparently you disagree with me.

[Nightmask]

I don't know how otheres view NEMA, but I, personally, at least give them the credit of being smart about things. IMO the NEMA General would probably request intelligence first and use that to assess the situation. He might actually see Lazlo as an ally as these soldiers are not the xenophobes the CS are. Secondly; the NEMA General (IMO) would NOT recognize the Republican's Director as being in any position of authority over him mostly because the Director has no legitimate gov't backing, the NEMA troops would (again IMO) see the New Navy as allies and recognize the name "Dobson" (Nemo's father WAS a U.S. Navy Captain before the coming of the Rifts and would be in the General's intel files). Also
A far as ARCHIE 3 goes, that's a difficult question; on one hand he's now become a fully sentient being, BUT on the other hand he IS still, in part, a military grade AI so there would be computer codes that he technically should obey, BUT because he's now sentient he has an even greater chance of being able to resist them. That may be why he's aware of the actions of the Republicans, even if he thinks it's a dream. It is also My Opinion that the NEMA General would NOT shut down Archie, but instead work with Archie. My reasoning (flawed tho' it may be) is that Archie has been suffering from a form of PTSD for a LOOOOOONG time and may need "counselling", but the General will also realize that he NEEDS Archie's network of 'bots and Archie himself to run the factories.
The other question is who succeeds as President? The last President and V.P. are dead as well as all members of the gov't, the succession goes from President to V.P to Speaker of the House, Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of Defense, Attorney General, Secretary of the Interior, Secretary of Agriculture, Secretary of Commerce, Secretary of Labor, Secretary of Health and Human Services, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Secretary of Transportation, Secretary of Energy, Secretary of Education, Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Secretary of Homeland Security. The only remnant of the odl U.S. that has a President is the New Navy (the books say he's merely Pres. of one of the cities, but I don't buy that), so that "President" might wind up as "THE President". I also note the ABSENCE of any mention of the CIA Director being in this list, nor has the CIA Director (to the best of my knowledge) listed as a "Superior Officer".

You can't shut ARCHIE-3 down anyway, it's a fully independent sentient lifeform that apparently runs on ambient energy. The most you might manage is to disconnect it from the factory and then you'd have the problem that if you pulled off that nigh-impossible task of rendering the factory useless. Remember ARCHIE-3 is the control system for the factory, without it the thing can't function and would be extremely taxing to try and refit the factory to function without ARCHIE-3 to run things.

[keir451]

@Nightmask; Agreed, trying to shut Archie down is not possible in the classic sense because of the fact that he IS alive, the only caveat is that Archie himself doesn't quite recognize this so he might "fool himself" a bit if the proper command codes were entered.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I don't know how otheres view NEMA, but I, personally, at least give them the credit of being smart about things. IMO the NEMA General would probably request intelligence first and use that to assess the situation. He might actually see Lazlo as an ally as these soldiers are not the xenophobes the CS are. Secondly; the NEMA General (IMO) would NOT recognize the Republican's Director as being in any position of authority over him mostly because the Director has no legitimate gov't backing, the NEMA troops would (again IMO) see the New Navy as allies and recognize the name "Dobson" (Nemo's father WAS a U.S. Navy Captain before the coming of the Rifts and would be in the General's intel files). Also
A far as ARCHIE 3 goes, that's a difficult question; on one hand he's now become a fully sentient being, BUT on the other hand he IS still, in part, a military grade AI so there would be computer codes that he technically should obey, BUT because he's now sentient he has an even greater chance of being able to resist them. That may be why he's aware of the actions of the Republicans, even if he thinks it's a dream. It is also My Opinion that the NEMA General would NOT shut down Archie, but instead work with Archie. My reasoning (flawed tho' it may be) is that Archie has been suffering from a form of PTSD for a LOOOOOONG time and may need "counselling", but the General will also realize that he NEEDS Archie's network of 'bots and Archie himself to run the factories.
The other question is who succeeds as President? The last President and V.P. are dead as well as all members of the gov't, the succession goes from President to V.P to Speaker of the House, Secretary of State, Secretary of the Treasury, Secretary of Defense, Attorney General, Secretary of the Interior, Secretary of Agriculture, Secretary of Commerce, Secretary of Labor, Secretary of Health and Human Services, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Secretary of Transportation, Secretary of Energy, Secretary of Education, Secretary of Veterans Affairs, Secretary of Homeland Security. The only remnant of the odl U.S. that has a President is the New Navy (the books say he's merely Pres. of one of the cities, but I don't buy that), so that "President" might wind up as "THE President". I also note the ABSENCE of any mention of the CIA Director being in this list, nor has the CIA Director (to the best of my knowledge) listed as a "Superior Officer".

well i dont think when then came up with the line, they took in the account of the world being ripped apart, monsters roaming the earth and eating humans and all the other fun stuff in rifts earth. Free quebec are the xenophobes, CS are bad, but not at the level some like to pretend they are , canon says if you are human from a different dimension is willing to follow the CS laws and are loyal to the CS , they too can became citizens of the CS.
the lazlo thing , you guys act like that is something they are going to run too, its hasnt been three hundred years for them , its was yesterday their world went to hell, so its still very fresh in their minds, and who knows what they been dreaming of for three hundred years, i going bet, it hasnt been some hippie lover fest with d-bees, i bet its closer to three hundreds years of an endless nightmares. then when come to and found out 300 years has pasted, that does a job on the mind, some will be able to withstand and some willn't
Then there a chance were Emmel and Nemo clash on some level after awhile, and Prosek and Emmel might hit it off like best buds. and Karl will find a way to keep them on his side and out of his way, even it means setting up a city with the purpose of providing food and comforts of the coalition to the time travellers, but comes down to who is the first one there with a helping hand, with food, or someone to listen to them as the tell them the horror that happened yesterday(three hundred years ago)

[Mech-Viper Prime]

but like i said before the rules have change those freedoms are good if someone
is willing to fight for them last time i check rifts earth wasnt a friendly
place to be human and out of time, but odds are they will end up in the slave
pits in atlantis.

The nema sleeper army has been stated as being powerful enough to literally reach
and breach the walls of Chi-Town itself.

I do not think a power of that magnitude, needs anyone's assistence. Being it is
still rifts earth, and they are a military I would hazard a guess as to say they
know how to hunt and prep their own meals if need be.

breach the walls doesnt mean defeating the largest military in north america.
what is the number of cooks they have?
what is the number of hunters they have?
what is the number of butchers they have?
what is the number of farmers they have?
Is archie-3 equipped to feed this many troops?
those are late 21st century soldiers, who are used to living with that lifestyle and not roughing it, they are the ones who bring the supplies and help people not the other way around, this isnt a field exercise down range where you can still get a hot meal from the main part of base.
NEMA were cops, soldiers and first responsers not super soldiers, like everybody is trying to make them out to be.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

canon says if you are human from a different dimension is willing to follow the
CS laws and are loyal to the CS , they too can became citizens of the CS.

thats not the question to me, if they can become CS citizen's, but rather would
they stoop that low to want to become new age nazies ?

After waking up fighting threw the worst time in the earth's history (Cataclsym)
And knowing what it takes to get threw the hard times and thats not pushing away
helping hands just because those hands are not humans.

Not to mention, they will see the VERY real parallel's of the Nazi's and the CS, and
that alone would dictate they would never fall in line with the CS as they (nema) have
in fact fought with Deebee's before, and have had them as full members in their ranks.

The Coalition I personally feel would send them an emmissary to "feel" them out and to
spy on them get to know their strength's an weakness's. How this plays out is up for
speculation, but I do not think the CS would take kindly to an entirely new power house
just showing up and saying WE ARE REAL AMERICANS, we fight for the rights of EVERYMAN
and que the rest of the song, (Hulkamanians!)

ok what things did the Prosek take from the nazis

[keir451]

@ Mech-Viper Prime; I don't see how the NEMA General and Karl Prosek would hit it off. I also don't see how he'd (the NEMA General) have a problem w/Nemo, Nemo's a Captain vs Emmel being a General. That's a "no contest" sitiuation to me, plus the New Navy STILL follows their orignal precepts, which includes the UCMJ and the general standards of the old U.S. .
Actualy the CS DOESN'T accept even HUMAN d-bees, 'cause they're D-bees and their values probably don't match the CS's.
As for Lazlo, the guy IS a General and he'd want to take stock of the situation before acting, so he might actually be wiling to contact Lazlo & New Lazlo over the CS as their gov'ts come closer to what he knew than the CS does (at least IMO).
Even with 30,000 troops and the advanced facilites of HQ Echo at his command he'll realize that he needs to build up his forces and assess his tactical situation before trying to do anything (again IMO). The CS is, currently, the strongest human nation in North America and trying to take them down would NOT be a walk in the park by any stretch of the imagination.
The General would also possibly try to make contact with Northen Gun as they are a heavy duty manufacturer of weapons & equipment as well as a significant military power in their own right.

[Blue_Lion]

Nightmask, you are sentient, but if I give you "downers" you will still feel tired, likewise, if I open your head with surgery (and know what I am doing) I can trigger memories, feelings, even physical responses.

Are you saying just because you are sentient you cant be made do do things against your will by someone diddling your brain?

Why should A.R.C.H.I.E. Three be any different?

Because our brains aren't the same for one, because it's no longer a 'dumb' machine controlled by programming and backdoors for another. From a storytelling point it'd also be massively anti-climatic that someone could just pull up some old back door commands and 'poof' this super-intelligence that's been running a secret empire from behind the scenes is now just some dumb slave to someone else (whether the PC group or someone else). You can't hack and dominate a cyborg or Machine Person why then should you get to have a cheap way to gain untold power with a few computer commands?

OK so what happens when i do this. *hits night mask in the groin with a golf club.* Now at this point most males hit like that unaware it whould happen will curl up in a ball and, or grab there groin.

That is because our brains and reflexes are hard wired for X. A less painfull example is how some people listing to running water need to use the bath room.

The same is true for archie 3 his brain is wired to react to certain thing. They can use that to make him do something when he is not aware of the attempt. If he was watching the line and the tried it he whould shut it down. He may be self aware but his core has certain things built into it. They mearly exploit that fact.

Sorry about the hit in the groin.

Yeah, if you wanted to be taken seriously that was most certainly not the way to do it.

It was just a rude example of that even a living creature can be made to respawn in a giving way with the right input. Also mental conditioning can leave people with relfex such as yelling at ease to some one that person will jump to prade rest.
So if humans can be programed to react a set way then something that starts off as a computer no mater how advanced will have pre set programs with a respance. Now beeing self aware means he might learn what you did and take actions to counter it.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

@ Mech-Viper Prime; I don't see how the NEMA General and Karl Prosek would hit it off. I also don't see how he'd (the NEMA General) have a problem w/Nemo, Nemo's a Captain vs Emmel being a General. That's a "no contest" sitiuation to me, plus the New Navy STILL follows their orignal precepts, which includes the UCMJ and the general standards of the old U.S. .
Actualy the CS DOESN'T accept even HUMAN d-bees, 'cause they're D-bees and their values probably don't match the CS's.
As for Lazlo, the guy IS a General and he'd want to take stock of the situation before acting, so he might actually be wiling to contact Lazlo & New Lazlo over the CS as their gov'ts come closer to what he knew than the CS does (at least IMO).
Even with 30,000 troops and the advanced facilites of HQ Echo at his command he'll realize that he needs to build up his forces and assess his tactical situation before trying to do anything (again IMO). The CS is, currently, the strongest human nation in North America and trying to take them down would NOT be a walk in the park by any stretch of the imagination.
The General would also possibly try to make contact with Northen Gun as they are a heavy duty manufacturer of weapons & equipment as well as a significant military power in their own right.

really because the conversion books state different, talking about a part of the robotech humans would welcome the CS polices, empire of humanity( CS has nothing on them), and 20th century who accept the CS indoctrinated

[Mech-Viper Prime]

breach the walls doesnt mean defeating the largest military in north america.

Who said it did ?

what is the number of cooks they have?
what is the number of hunters they have?
what is the number of butchers they have?
what is the number of farmers they have?

What is the number of each for the Coalition?

Is archie-3 equipped to feed this many troops?

Archie is perhaps thee single richest being (outside of atlantis) in the world.
He could easily feed thee entire coaliton, 28,000 troops would be nothing for him
to feed.

those are late 21st century soldiers, who are used to living with that lifestyle
and not roughing it, they are the ones who bring the supplies and help people not
the other way around, this isnt a field exercise down range where you can still get
a hot meal from the main part of base.

They were soilders. Soilders who were used to being out in the battlefield. They
survived in an era of the world that killed 90% of everyone else. Not even the CS
can claim that huge of a victory.

Why do you seem to hate them so much?

NEMA were cops, soldiers and first responsers not super soldiers,
like everybody is trying to make them out to be.

Not these nema people. They were the military arm. As said they were in the books. They were
as you put it, super soilders.

then please provide a quote or page number that states all of this

[Mech-Viper Prime]

then please provide a quote or page number that states all of this

Soon as you provide a quote and page number which shows many cooks the Coalition has.

so you saying you got nothing?

[keir451]

@ Mech-Viper Prime; I don't see how the NEMA General and Karl Prosek would hit it off. I also don't see how he'd (the NEMA General) have a problem w/Nemo, Nemo's a Captain vs Emmel being a General. That's a "no contest" sitiuation to me, plus the New Navy STILL follows their orignal precepts, which includes the UCMJ and the general standards of the old U.S. .
Actualy the CS DOESN'T accept even HUMAN d-bees, 'cause they're D-bees and their values probably don't match the CS's.
As for Lazlo, the guy IS a General and he'd want to take stock of the situation before acting, so he might actually be wiling to contact Lazlo & New Lazlo over the CS as their gov'ts come closer to what he knew than the CS does (at least IMO).
Even with 30,000 troops and the advanced facilites of HQ Echo at his command he'll realize that he needs to build up his forces and assess his tactical situation before trying to do anything (again IMO). The CS is, currently, the strongest human nation in North America and trying to take them down would NOT be a walk in the park by any stretch of the imagination.
The General would also possibly try to make contact with Northen Gun as they are a heavy duty manufacturer of weapons & equipment as well as a significant military power in their own right.

really because the conversion books state different, talking about a part of the robotech humans would welcome the CS polices, empire of humanity( CS has nothing on them), and 20th century who accept the CS indoctrinated

That's a case of xenophobes in the REF trying to join the CS, it does not say the CS would automatically accept them. To quote from the CB 1 p. 35 regarding the RT forces, "...they have also become allies with alien life forms and have a high regard for like. Thus, they are likely to find the Coalition States' policy of of human supremacy and the genocide of non-humans abhorrent." "However, there is a small faction of people who have grown to fear and hate all alien life forms and they may find the policies of the CS to be welcomed."
Next page (p.36) Average 20th Century Characters; "Trouble with the Coalition States is likely. Although entirely human, people from 20th Century Earth or Earth-like dimensions are literate and far more educated than the average CS citizen. Thus in the eyes of the Coalition authorities, these "D-bees" are a double threat, because they can read and because they hold dear disturbing notions of freedom, civil rights, democracy and philosophy. Such characters will always be viewed with suspicion and those that cannot be indoctinated to the ways of the Coalition (and placed under constant surveillance) are imprisoned, or more likely, destroyed as rebellious rogue scholars, rogue scientists, and alien invaders."
So, Yes, there is a SMALL faction within the REF that would agree with the CS, but it is MORE likely that any such people would be terminated on sight. Now the NEMA people, while they were fighting an invasion, are STILL of a differnt era than the CS and would be viewed in the same light as any other D-bee, only the CS would see them as an even GREATER threat and seek to crush them quickly. Any one who IS taken in by the CS and not automatically killed, is placed under constant surveillance because they CANNOT be completely trusted. Aslo it is stated in the Chaos Earth book that NEMA (Northern Eagle MILITARY Alliance) effectively took the place of the militaries of the U.S., Canada and Mexico (I don't see that ever happening IRL but that's the way the book has it).

[keir451]

so you saying you got nothing?

I guess this means you can not provide a valid quote of how many
Cooks are in the coalition military.

I expected as much.

Even when I have provided canon sourced quotes from books you have ignored them. I do not think me providing you with sourced quotes will help in this issue either. Because you clearly are one of the people on the forum's who hates to see the Coalition get any bad "publicity" from anyone on the forums.

So you mearly ignore such proving's that show the Coalition in an unfavorable light.

The Coalition military numbers in the millions (according to the books, War Campaign, et al.) so there are several thousand to several million cooks for the CS (they also double as soldiers), the CS IS supported by many farms (no exact numbers are ever given IIRC). The NEMA troops are 30,000 so they'd have a few dozen cooks at best guess. Of course Archie can easily program as many 'bots as he wants to serve in ANY capacity he feels is warranted, tho' the 'bots don't need to eat so he'd leave cooking food to the humans.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

@ Mech-Viper Prime; I don't see how the NEMA General and Karl Prosek would hit it off. I also don't see how he'd (the NEMA General) have a problem w/Nemo, Nemo's a Captain vs Emmel being a General. That's a "no contest" sitiuation to me, plus the New Navy STILL follows their orignal precepts, which includes the UCMJ and the general standards of the old U.S. .
Actualy the CS DOESN'T accept even HUMAN d-bees, 'cause they're D-bees and their values probably don't match the CS's.
As for Lazlo, the guy IS a General and he'd want to take stock of the situation before acting, so he might actually be wiling to contact Lazlo & New Lazlo over the CS as their gov'ts come closer to what he knew than the CS does (at least IMO).
Even with 30,000 troops and the advanced facilites of HQ Echo at his command he'll realize that he needs to build up his forces and assess his tactical situation before trying to do anything (again IMO). The CS is, currently, the strongest human nation in North America and trying to take them down would NOT be a walk in the park by any stretch of the imagination.
The General would also possibly try to make contact with Northen Gun as they are a heavy duty manufacturer of weapons & equipment as well as a significant military power in their own right.

really because the conversion books state different, talking about a part of the robotech humans would welcome the CS polices, empire of humanity( CS has nothing on them), and 20th century who accept the CS indoctrinated

That's a case of xenophobes in the REF trying to join the CS, it does not say the CS would automatically accept them. To quote from the CB 1 p. 35 regarding the RT forces, "...they have also become allies with alien life forms and have a high regard for like. Thus, they are likely to find the Coalition States' policy of of human supremacy and the genocide of non-humans abhorrent." "However, there is a small faction of people who have grown to fear and hate all alien life forms and they may find the policies of the CS to be welcomed."
Next page (p.36) Average 20th Century Characters; "Trouble with the Coalition States is likely. Although entirely human, people from 20th Century Earth or Earth-like dimensions are literate and far more educated than the average CS citizen. Thus in the eyes of the Coalition authorities, these "D-bees" are a double threat, because they can read and because they hold dear disturbing notions of freedom, civil rights, democracy and philosophy. Such characters will always be viewed with suspicion and those that cannot be indoctinated to the ways of the Coalition (and placed under constant surveillance) are imprisoned, or more likely, destroyed as rebellious rogue scholars, rogue scientists, and alien invaders."
So, Yes, there is a SMALL faction within the REF that would agree with the CS, but it is MORE likely that any such people would be terminated on sight. Now the NEMA people, while they were fighting an invasion, are STILL of a differnt era than the CS and would be viewed in the same light as any other D-bee, only the CS would see them as an even GREATER threat and seek to crush them quickly. Any one who IS taken in by the CS and not automatically killed, is placed under constant surveillance because they CANNOT be completely trusted. Aslo it is stated in the Chaos Earth book that NEMA (Northern Eagle MILITARY Alliance) effectively took the place of the militaries of the U.S., Canada and Mexico (I don't see that ever happening IRL but that's the way the book has it).

this is the key part

those that cannot be indoctinated to the ways of the Coalition

which means a different fate for those who accept the the coalition ways

[Mech-Viper Prime]

so you saying you got nothing?

I guess this means you can not provide a valid quote of how many
Cooks are in the coalition military.

I expected as much.

Even when I have provided canon sourced quotes from books you have ignored them. I do not think me providing you with sourced quotes will help in this issue either. Because you clearly are one of the people on the forum's who hates to see the Coalition get any bad "publicity" from anyone on the forums.

So you mearly ignore such proving's that show the Coalition in an unfavorable light.

The Coalition military numbers in the millions (according to the books, War Campaign, et al.) so there are several thousand to several million cooks for the CS (they also double as soldiers), the CS IS supported by many farms (no exact numbers are ever given IIRC). The NEMA troops are 30,000 so they'd have a few dozen cooks at best guess. Of course Archie can easily program as many 'bots as he wants to serve in ANY capacity he feels is warranted, tho' the 'bots don't need to eat so he'd leave cooking food to the humans.

still that is closed 90,000 meals a day, 30,000 gallons of water, and who knows what is in the water rifts earth on the microscopic scale. depending on the skill set of the personal, we know archie-3 can feed one person,Hagan, but add another 30,000 mouths is a different story

[keir451]

so you saying you got nothing?

I guess this means you can not provide a valid quote of how many
Cooks are in the coalition military.

I expected as much.

Even when I have provided canon sourced quotes from books you have ignored them. I do not think me providing you with sourced quotes will help in this issue either. Because you clearly are one of the people on the forum's who hates to see the Coalition get any bad "publicity" from anyone on the forums.

So you mearly ignore such proving's that show the Coalition in an unfavorable light.

The Coalition military numbers in the millions (according to the books, War Campaign, et al.) so there are several thousand to several million cooks for the CS (they also double as soldiers), the CS IS supported by many farms (no exact numbers are ever given IIRC). The NEMA troops are 30,000 so they'd have a few dozen cooks at best guess. Of course Archie can easily program as many 'bots as he wants to serve in ANY capacity he feels is warranted, tho' the 'bots don't need to eat so he'd leave cooking food to the humans.

still that is closed 90,000 meals a day, 30,000 gallons of water, and who knows what is in the water rifts earth on the microscopic scale. depending on the skill set of the personal, we know archie-3 can feed one person,Hagan, but add another 30,000 mouths is a different story

Well, we can do a pretty god job of filtering water today, so I would guess that the filtering technology of 2098 was at least as good if not better (most likely better) so Archie, as a full fledged Head Quarters for a military unit, would be well equipped to handle the full base complement w/out much problem, and the 30,000 troops aren't even the bases full complement of personnel (the one's that didn't go into stasis died IIRC), food could be secured via use of his robots or coopting the local Indian tirbes to provide tribute.

[Nightmask]

so you saying you got nothing?

I guess this means you can not provide a valid quote of how many
Cooks are in the coalition military.

I expected as much.

Even when I have provided canon sourced quotes from books you have ignored them. I do not think me providing you with sourced quotes will help in this issue either. Because you clearly are one of the people on the forum's who hates to see the Coalition get any bad "publicity" from anyone on the forums.

So you mearly ignore such proving's that show the Coalition in an unfavorable light.

The Coalition military numbers in the millions (according to the books, War Campaign, et al.) so there are several thousand to several million cooks for the CS (they also double as soldiers), the CS IS supported by many farms (no exact numbers are ever given IIRC). The NEMA troops are 30,000 so they'd have a few dozen cooks at best guess. Of course Archie can easily program as many 'bots as he wants to serve in ANY capacity he feels is warranted, tho' the 'bots don't need to eat so he'd leave cooking food to the humans.

still that is closed 90,000 meals a day, 30,000 gallons of water, and who knows what is in the water rifts earth on the microscopic scale. depending on the skill set of the personal, we know archie-3 can feed one person,Hagan, but add another 30,000 mouths is a different story

Well, we can do a pretty god job of filtering water today, so I would guess that the filtering technology of 2098 was at least as good if not better (most likely better) so Archie, as a full fledged Head Quarters for a military unit, would be well equipped to handle the full base complement w/out much problem, and the 30,000 troops aren't even the bases full complement of personnel (the one's that didn't go into stasis died IIRC), food could be secured via use of his robots or coopting the local Indian tirbes to provide tribute.

I wonder where the assumption that they'd all be awakened simultaneously is coming from anyway, or that they'd be awakened without having prepared for their needs including food and a place to sleep. While I ignore the Republican revision as bad writing in the context of it you wouldn't decant a large number of people like that without the resources to take care of them.

[keir451]

I wonder where the assumption that they'd all be awakened simultaneously is coming from anyway, or that they'd be awakened without having prepared for their needs including food and a place to sleep. While I ignore the Republican revision as bad writing in the context of it you wouldn't decant a large number of people like that without the resources to take care of them.

So very true! IMO Archie'd wake up the General first and get he General on his side (or at least that's the way I'd run it) before bringing up the rest of the soldiers, also I do not belive that the General would listen to the Republican's Director as he's got no authority over him, he might listen to Col. Copper as she's obviously a soldier w/experience.

[The Galactus Kid]

Archie's body is the HQ-ECC. Nema super compound.

And it has the capability to not only feed, and house but gear up
maintain gear and produce new gear for far more then 30,000 people.

So to think that Archie is incapable of feeding a 30,000 man army reaching
when discussiong the capabilities of the lil toaster.

ARCHIE also has a supply chain that moves up the eastern seabord and as far west as Ishpeming. He can get more food and suplies to augment what he can't create.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

just remember last time a human kingdom stand against atlantis , they took out the entire kingdom in 2 days with 43,000 slaves in tow back to the slave pits

but a large food shipment or orders for it will draw attention to archie-3, and the wrong people will start wondering where all this food is going and once the find out how he doing it they could track them and that just raises a bunch of new problems.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I wonder where the assumption that they'd all be awakened simultaneously is coming from anyway, or that they'd be awakened without having prepared for their needs including food and a place to sleep. While I ignore the Republican revision as bad writing in the context of it you wouldn't decant a large number of people like that without the resources to take care of them.

So very true! IMO Archie'd wake up the General first and get he General on his side (or at least that's the way I'd run it) before bringing up the rest of the soldiers, also I do not belive that the General would listen to the Republican's Director as he's got no authority over him, he might listen to Col. Copper as she's obviously a soldier w/experience.

and what happens when the general starts asking the wrong questions or the republicans launch another attack while archie is trying to convince the general?

[Metathiax]

Thanks for the clarification there.

So why does ARCHIE-3 keep them all in stasis, anyway? Why not wake them up? Or why not kill them? Why keep them on ice?

Because Archie is still very much a computer, despite how much he claims full sentience, he is still a PC with corrupted hardware. IF you have the right codes you could probably force him to do anything. He was programmed to keep them safe, and so he keeps them in stasis, but the decisions he has made by killing NEMA personnel who came to claim the NEMA Historics or Sleepers means if he wakes them they will lobotomize him at best and probably just take him off lone altogether (kill him). So they remain in stasis.

I think the real question is why did the mechonids allow him to keep 30,000 humans alive?

[Nightmask]

Thanks for the clarification there.

So why does ARCHIE-3 keep them all in stasis, anyway? Why not wake them up? Or why not kill them? Why keep them on ice?

Because Archie is still very much a computer, despite how much he claims full sentience, he is still a PC with corrupted hardware. IF you have the right codes you could probably force him to do anything. He was programmed to keep them safe, and so he keeps them in stasis, but the decisions he has made by killing NEMA personnel who came to claim the NEMA Historics or Sleepers means if he wakes them they will lobotomize him at best and probably just take him off lone altogether (kill him). So they remain in stasis.

I think the real question is why did the mechonids allow him to keep 30,000 humans alive?

If they knew they wouldn't have, unless ARCHIE-3 simply said he had them around for experiments like he claimed with Hagan.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Thanks for the clarification there.

So why does ARCHIE-3 keep them all in stasis, anyway? Why not wake them up? Or why not kill them? Why keep them on ice?

Because Archie is still very much a computer, despite how much he claims full sentience, he is still a PC with corrupted hardware. IF you have the right codes you could probably force him to do anything. He was programmed to keep them safe, and so he keeps them in stasis, but the decisions he has made by killing NEMA personnel who came to claim the NEMA Historics or Sleepers means if he wakes them they will lobotomize him at best and probably just take him off lone altogether (kill him). So they remain in stasis.

I think the real question is why did the mechonids allow him to keep 30,000 humans alive?

If they knew they wouldn't have, unless ARCHIE-3 simply said he had them around for experiments like he claimed with Hagan.

Yeah but the mechinoids might have called him on that bluff

[keir451]

They fall under "script immunity' because they didn't exist when the Mechanoids were written!!

[Mech-Viper Prime]

They fall under "script immunity' because they didn't exist when the Mechanoids were written!!

Seems like everybody has some type of hand of god protecting them or script immunity for some reason

[The Galactus Kid]

They fall under "script immunity' because they didn't exist when the Mechanoids were written!!

Seems like everybody has some type of hand of god protecting them or script immunity for some reason

It would be very easy to say that they were in a part of the complex that the mechanoids didn't have full access to.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

They fall under "script immunity' because they didn't exist when the Mechanoids were written!!

Seems like everybody has some type of hand of god protecting them or script immunity for some reason

It would be very easy to say that they were in a part of the complex that the mechanoids didn't have full access to.

You could use that route or they were in a different complex altogether the ultra sercet clubhouse with frozen humans, human-size equipment , his human pet, humanoid robots, and female human robot toys running around, remember they access Archie in way no one ever did

[Cyber-Knight]

ARCHIE has multiple facilities, so it's likely that the Mechanoids never knew about them or ever saw them all. After all, Hagan just found out about an army that ARCHIE's been keeping on ice for a couple centuries.

just remember last time a human kingdom stand against atlantis , they took out the entire kingdom in 2 days with 43,000 slaves in tow back to the slave pits

You're glossing over the specifics of the situation, namely that the Republican Army at the time was made up of about 2,000 soldiers. That's a far cry from 30,000. That NEMA army could have beaten that army of 20,000 Splugorth Minions. Moreover, the situation in North America has completely changed since then. That New Republic that they were trying to build was probably one of only a handful of minor kingdoms growing up in North America, whereas present day North America is one which has the Coalition, Free Quebec, Lazlo, New Lazlo, Ishpheming, The Manistique Imperium, the Tundra Rangers, the Cyber-Knights, and other regional powers and organizations. There's no way that Splynncryth will send another large army into North America again as it'd provoke a response from all of them. Moreover, obviously the situation HAS changed because the Coalition, Free Quebec, and numerous other groups HAVE been fighting Splugorth Slavers, and Atlantis hasn't launched a full-fledged counter-assault. The landscape has changed since then, and what Splynncryth did then isn't necessarily what he'd do now. Although if he were willing to do that then NOBODY would be safe. He could bulldoze the Coalition as easily as everyone else, so that's not much of a point.

I wonder where the assumption that they'd all be awakened simultaneously is coming from anyway, or that they'd be awakened without having prepared for their needs including food and a place to sleep. While I ignore the Republican revision as bad writing in the context of it you wouldn't decant a large number of people like that without the resources to take care of them.

What I want to know is where does the assumption come from that they'll instantly starve to death unless they join the Coalition? The Coalition doesn't hold the patent on food production in North America. There're millions of people scattered all across the continent, hundreds to thousands of communities of varying size, as well as numerous freelance organizations, and despite the fact that most of them aren't affiliated with the Coalition they're not starving to death. Odds are that, along with building weapons and armor for them, ARCHIE's stockpiled plenty of rations for them, too. That would be enough to keep them going for who knows how many months until they establish some other source, like local communities who'd be willing to tithe some of their food in exchange for protection. Or they could buy some with whatever money they make after hiring out their services as a mercenary company. Point is, it's a silly notion to think that these guys are going to wake up and starve to death inside of two weeks and there's absolutely nothing they can do to prevent this fate short of joining up with the Coalition.

those are late 21st century soldiers, who are used to living with that lifestyle and not roughing it, they are the ones who bring the supplies and help people not the other way around, this isnt a field exercise down range where you can still get a hot meal from the main part of base.

NEMA were cops, soldiers and first responsers not super soldiers, like everybody is trying to make them out to be.

Wow, really? You make it sound like they’re members in a country club. These guys fought it out with the worst the rifts had to offer in the early days of the Dark Ages. NOTHING which either the Coalition or the NGR has faced can compare to the horrors they had to experience. And yes, they WERE soldiers. As someone else pointed out, they’re the “Northern Eagle MILITARY Alliance”. The fact that they’re led by someone who holds the rank of General, not Director or Secretary, but GENERAL, should clue you in on what sort of role they perform. The book itself repeatedly calls them “troops” and “soldiers.”

Incidentally, according to the Chaos Earth book, 70% of NEMA members were the beneficiaries of genetic engineering to some degree or another, so in comparison to your average human they are super soldiers.

still very fresh in their minds, and who knows what they been dreaming of for three hundred years, i going bet, it hasnt been some hippie lover fest with d-bees, i bet its closer to three hundreds years of an endless nightmares. then when come to and found out 300 years has pasted, that does a job on the mind, some will be able to withstand and some willn't

So you’re now subscribing to the “Bad Dream” theory? Emmel would obviously get intelligence first, but the man would trust what his eyes show him. And what he’d see in Lazlo is a city where all people, human and non-human alike, are free and happy. On the other hand, in the Coalition he’d see an oppressive totalitarian state which rewrites history and keeps its population in line through fear, illiteracy, and propaganda. You want to talk about bad dreams? Nightmares? Emmel and his people would likely look at the Coalition and see their worst nightmare brought to life.

Then there a chance were Emmel and Nemo clash on some level after awhile, and Prosek and Emmel might hit it off like best buds. and Karl will find a way to keep them on his side and out of his way, even it means setting up a city with the purpose of providing food and comforts of the coalition to the time travellers, but comes down to who is the first one there with a helping hand, with food, or someone to listen to them as the tell them the horror that happened yesterday(three hundred years ago)

Ok, and now we have the “I Got Into a Disagreement with Nemo So I Became a Nazi” theory.

1) Personally liking someone or not doesn’t mean you can’t work with them. And given the stakes, the two of them aren’t going to be such prima-donna’s that they’re going to put their own personal feelings ahead of the mission, which is to protect the people who’re counting on them. And why would Nemo and Emmel clash in the first place? They’re alike in many ways and share a lot of the same beliefs. The Emmel portrayed in the book, while it’s a thin portrayal, seems like a genuinely good and heroic man, as is Nemo. There’s no logical reason whatsoever why they wouldn’t get along, while there’s plenty of reason to believe that they’d work well together.

2) Prosek and Emmel “hitting it off like best buds”? Are you drunk? First off, it’ll be a damn miracle if Coalition troops don’t shoot the NEMA troops first. And even if they don’t, the odds of Emmel going so far up the command chain that he’ll meet Prosek himself are almost nil. And if he were to meet Prosek, why in the world would they get along? Prosek is a fascist. He keeps his people ignorant and illiterate. He strips them of their freedom. He runs the Coalition like a police state. All of that is more than enough to not only make Emmel dislike the man, but to be repulsed by him as he’s a monster. And what kind of goofy cartoon image of Prosek do you have in your head? Because it sounds like your version of Prosek is a fuzzy, lovable guy who has zany adventures on the weekend with his buddies a la “Weekend at Bernie’s.” Prosek is, once again, a fascist. He’s not “a man’s man”, and he’s not anyone’s “best bud.” He’s a tyrant. He’s a dictator. He’s a bloody-handed butcher. He’s everything which an ethical man like Emmel is portrayed is not. Not only would Emmel not take to Prosek, he’d probably shoot Prosek between the eyes the first chance he got.

3) Since when is the Coalition so kind and friendly to people? There’s no way they’d go through so much trouble for them. All they’d want from them is their technology, and they can get that once they’re all dead (Although they might keep a few alive, like any technicians, if they’re technically useful).

well apparently you disagree with me.

Damn my pesky brain for doing all that thinking.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

ARCHIE has multiple facilities, so it's likely that the Mechanoids never knew about them or ever saw them all. After all, Hagan just found out about an army that ARCHIE's been keeping on ice for a couple centuries.

just remember last time a human kingdom stand against atlantis , they took out the entire kingdom in 2 days with 43,000 slaves in tow back to the slave pits

You're glossing over the specifics of the situation, namely that the Republican Army at the time was made up of about 2,000 soldiers. That's a far cry from 30,000. That NEMA army could have beaten that army of 20,000 Splugorth Minions. Moreover, the situation in North America has completely changed since then. That New Republic that they were trying to build was probably one of only a handful of minor kingdoms growing up in North America, whereas present day North America is one which has the Coalition, Free Quebec, Lazlo, New Lazlo, Ishpheming, The Manistique Imperium, the Tundra Rangers, the Cyber-Knights, and other regional powers and organizations. There's no way that Splynncryth will send another large army into North America again as it'd provoke a response from all of them. Moreover, obviously the situation HAS changed because the Coalition, Free Quebec, and numerous other groups HAVE been fighting Splugorth Slavers, and Atlantis hasn't launched a full-fledged counter-assault. The landscape has changed since then, and what Splynncryth did then isn't necessarily what he'd do now. Although if he were willing to do that then NOBODY would be safe. He could bulldoze the Coalition as easily as everyone else, so that's not much of a point.

I wonder where the assumption that they'd all be awakened simultaneously is coming from anyway, or that they'd be awakened without having prepared for their needs including food and a place to sleep. While I ignore the Republican revision as bad writing in the context of it you wouldn't decant a large number of people like that without the resources to take care of them.

What I want to know is where does the assumption come from that they'll instantly starve to death unless they join the Coalition? The Coalition doesn't hold the patent on food production in North America. There're millions of people scattered all across the continent, hundreds to thousands of communities of varying size, as well as numerous freelance organizations, and despite the fact that most of them aren't affiliated with the Coalition they're not starving to death. Odds are that, along with building weapons and armor for them, ARCHIE's stockpiled plenty of rations for them, too. That would be enough to keep them going for who knows how many months until they establish some other source, like local communities who'd be willing to tithe some of their food in exchange for protection. Or they could buy some with whatever money they make after hiring out their services as a mercenary company. Point is, it's a silly notion to think that these guys are going to wake up and starve to death inside of two weeks and there's absolutely nothing they can do to prevent this fate short of joining up with the Coalition.

those are late 21st century soldiers, who are used to living with that lifestyle and not roughing it, they are the ones who bring the supplies and help people not the other way around, this isnt a field exercise down range where you can still get a hot meal from the main part of base.

NEMA were cops, soldiers and first responsers not super soldiers, like everybody is trying to make them out to be.

Wow, really? You make it sound like they’re members in a country club. These guys fought it out with the worst the rifts had to offer in the early days of the Dark Ages. NOTHING which either the Coalition or the NGR has faced can compare to the horrors they had to experience. And yes, they WERE soldiers. As someone else pointed out, they’re the “Northern Eagle MILITARY Alliance”. The fact that they’re led by someone who holds the rank of General, not Director or Secretary, but GENERAL, should clue you in on what sort of role they perform. The book itself repeatedly calls them “troops” and “soldiers.”

Incidentally, according to the Chaos Earth book, 70% of NEMA members were the beneficiaries of genetic engineering to some degree or another, so in comparison to your average human they are super soldiers.

still very fresh in their minds, and who knows what they been dreaming of for three hundred years, i going bet, it hasnt been some hippie lover fest with d-bees, i bet its closer to three hundreds years of an endless nightmares. then when come to and found out 300 years has pasted, that does a job on the mind, some will be able to withstand and some willn't

So you’re now subscribing to the “Bad Dream” theory? Emmel would obviously get intelligence first, but the man would trust what his eyes show him. And what he’d see in Lazlo is a city where all people, human and non-human alike, are free and happy. On the other hand, in the Coalition he’d see an oppressive totalitarian state which rewrites history and keeps its population in line through fear, illiteracy, and propaganda. You want to talk about bad dreams? Nightmares? Emmel and his people would likely look at the Coalition and see their worst nightmare brought to life.

Then there a chance were Emmel and Nemo clash on some level after awhile, and Prosek and Emmel might hit it off like best buds. and Karl will find a way to keep them on his side and out of his way, even it means setting up a city with the purpose of providing food and comforts of the coalition to the time travellers, but comes down to who is the first one there with a helping hand, with food, or someone to listen to them as the tell them the horror that happened yesterday(three hundred years ago)

Ok, and now we have the “I Got Into a Disagreement with Nemo So I Became a Nazi” theory.

1) Personally liking someone or not doesn’t mean you can’t work with them. And given the stakes, the two of them aren’t going to be such prima-donna’s that they’re going to put their own personal feelings ahead of the mission, which is to protect the people who’re counting on them. And why would Nemo and Emmel clash in the first place? They’re alike in many ways and share a lot of the same beliefs. The Emmel portrayed in the book, while it’s a thin portrayal, seems like a genuinely good and heroic man, as is Nemo. There’s no logical reason whatsoever why they wouldn’t get along, while there’s plenty of reason to believe that they’d work well together.

2) Prosek and Emmel “hitting it off like best buds”? Are you drunk? First off, it’ll be a damn miracle if Coalition troops don’t shoot the NEMA troops first. And even if they don’t, the odds of Emmel going so far up the command chain that he’ll meet Prosek himself are almost nil. And if he were to meet Prosek, why in the world would they get along? Prosek is a fascist. He keeps his people ignorant and illiterate. He strips them of their freedom. He runs the Coalition like a police state. All of that is more than enough to not only make Emmel dislike the man, but to be repulsed by him as he’s a monster. And what kind of goofy cartoon image of Prosek do you have in your head? Because it sounds like your version of Prosek is a fuzzy, lovable guy who has zany adventures on the weekend with his buddies a la “Weekend at Bernie’s.” Prosek is, once again, a fascist. He’s not “a man’s man”, and he’s not anyone’s “best bud.” He’s a tyrant. He’s a dictator. He’s a bloody-handed butcher. He’s everything which an ethical man like Emmel is portrayed is not. Not only would Emmel not take to Prosek, he’d probably shoot Prosek between the eyes the first chance he got.

3) Since when is the Coalition so kind and friendly to people? There’s no way they’d go through so much trouble for them. All they’d want from them is their technology, and they can get that once they’re all dead (Although they might keep a few alive, like any technicians, if they’re technically useful).

well apparently you disagree with me.

Damn my pesky brain for doing all that thinking.

Yup because they would run off to lazlo, look its dragon let's go follow him because they have a free press.
And gene enhancement was used by the general population ,the last two generations that joined nema and the military ,70% of them had gene enhancements.

Emmel strikes me as a military officer, not some heroic saint who will champion the freedom and liberty while carrying a shield with a star on it.

And my version of Karl Prosek is just like the book has him, sorry he not the zany and wacky type you think I run him as

[Cyber-Knight]

Yup because they would run off to lazlo, look its dragon let's go follow him because they have a free press.

He makes far more sense than a fascist. It's an indisputable fact that the humans in Lazlo are better off than the humans in Chi-Town.

And gene enhancement was used by the general population ,the last two generations that joined nema and the military ,70% of them had gene enhancements.

This contradicts what I said, how? The majority of them are genetically engineered.

Emmel strikes me as a military officer, not some heroic saint who will champion the freedom and liberty while carrying a shield with a star on it.

Yes, he's a military officer. And what military does he serve? The United States military which, as we've already covered, is sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. He's not going to throw that away to work with people who represent the antithesis of everything he's spent his life believing in and fighting for.

And my version of Karl Prosek is just like the book has him, sorry he not the zany and wacky type you think I run him as

He must be if he's someone's "best bud." I can see it now.

KARL PROSEK: Duuuuuuuddddddddeeeeeeeeee-!!!

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Yup because they would run off to lazlo, look its dragon let's go follow him because they have a free press.

He makes far more sense than a fascist. It's an indisputable fact that the humans in Lazlo are better off than the humans in Chi-Town.

And gene enhancement was used by the general population ,the last two generations that joined nema and the military ,70% of them had gene enhancements.

This contradicts what I said, how? The majority of them are genetically engineered.

Emmel strikes me as a military officer, not some heroic saint who will champion the freedom and liberty while carrying a shield with a star on it.

Yes, he's a military officer. And what military does he serve? The United States military which, as we've already covered, is sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. He's not going to throw that away to work with people who represent the antithesis of everything he's spent his life believing in.

And my version of Karl Prosek is just like the book has him, sorry he not the zany and wacky type you think I run him as

He must be if he's someone's "best bud." I can see it now.

KARL PROSEK: Duuuuuuuddddddddeeeeeeeeee-!!!

Only in your mind

[Mack]

Only in your mind

Don't get snarky. If you can't discuss the topic, don't post.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Only in your mind

Don't get snarky. If you can't discuss the topic, don't post.

Ok I will discuss the post

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Sorry but I don't think they will run to lazlo, no world books aands till so many question about them and since most supernatural being don't really look at humans as equals ,well maybe on the dinner table.

New navy, might be a option for them but still they have to make contact with them , and the new navy might not like have to answer commander or they might.

Given Karl Prosek recent change of heart towards free Quebec, and NGR , the coalition might help them out but make it clear to stay out of their way.

[Cyber-Knight]

Sorry but I don't think they will run to lazlo, no world books aands till so many question about them and since most supernatural being don't really look at humans as equals ,well maybe on the dinner table.

You don't think they'd go to Lazlo because... Lazlo doesn't have a world book? I'm fairly certain that people on Rifts Earth don't base their decisions on what Palladium Books has published. And I don't even know what point you're trying to make about supernatural beings. Everyone's treated as an equal in Lazlo. It'd take Emmel five minutes to figure out that was the case with Lazlo. And upon closer inspection he'd find a society which is the closest on the continent to being an American society as they believe in freedom, democracy, and representative government. It's a place where he and his people can go to bed at night and not have to worry about a late night knock at the door only to find secret police who'll then drag them away in the night and throw them into prison without trial or due process where, if they're lucky, they'll waste away for the rest of their life or, if they're unlucky, they'll be brutally tortured before they're executed.

THAT is what it means to live in a police state. THAT is what Emmel and his people would realize the Coalition is. And that is precisely the sort of thing they'd have to fear as they're precisely the sort of people whom the Coalition targets, labeling as "Rogue Scholars" and the like. There's no way in Hell that they'd ever submit themselves to anything like that.

New navy, might be a option for them but still they have to make contact with them , and the new navy might not like have to answer commander or they might.

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. Emmel can technically pull rank on Nemo but that doesn't mean he would. The government which they both once served is gone, so obviously they'd approach each other as allies. And again I have to ask why you make these utterly bizarre leaps of logic. Why do you think it's perfectly reasonable that two men like Emmel and Nemo, who come from similar worlds and share similar beliefs, would be driven apart over minor tiffs, while at the same time believing that a man like Emmel would willingly risk his life by putting it in the hands of someone like Prosek, who he knows stands for everything which he grew up hating and despising, and who he knows may very well have him killed at the drop of a hat? I don't understand how you could come to such wildly different conclusions, that NEMA and the New Navy will clash despite everything they have in common but that NEMA and the Coalition will somehow become fast friends despite the fact that their philosophies are COMPLETELY at odds with each other.

Given Karl Prosek recent change of heart towards free Quebec, and NGR , the coalition might help them out but make it clear to stay out of their way.

What change of heart towards the NGR? They've always been allies. As for Free Quebec, is that the same Free Quebec which he tried to demolish? The Coalition is steadily trying to remove all elements of technology from North America which is superior to their own. They absolutely would not tolerate any force on the continent which had better technology than them, no matter who they are.

[keir451]

Now to be fair, Gen. Emmel & his troops DID go into stasis when the world was being overrun by nasty demons & monsters, so there might not have been enough time for him to establish the idea of a "good" vs. "bad" being. So on waking up he'd find a more stabilised world than when he went into stasis, but FAR more of these *d-bees* than he originally figured and he MIGHT be a hard liner that might like the CS (at least on the surface). Sure he's sworn the same oaths as all military personnel (or did he, we don't know for sure that NEMA follows the same standards our military does) but his attitude may be that all these aliens are interlopers, then again he could be a more *interpretive* kinda General and say "Well, we've got wannabe human fascists here (the CS), two city states (Lazlo &New Lazlo) that at least practice in some recognizable form the values I'm sworn to uphold, but they've elected a Dragon (WTH?) to their council and other, also militant, city sates (Northern Gun, etc.) and at my back a rather deranged AI with questionable goals. Hmmm which one do I choose?"
I come down on the side of "giving creatures the intelligence they were born with" as my old Gm used to say. Which means that I play Gen. Emmel as a man of (possibly) high intelligence who's not going to go off half cocked and will take the time to avail himself of all them data Archie has collected over the years, he might have Hagan locked up, initially, and then either kept under surveillance or exiled from the base.
As for contacting the New Navy, the Navy has their own High Command so they wouldn't have to answer to a General, their Admirals would tell him to take a hike. Nemo might defer to him on land as Nemo's only a Captain, but at sea on the Ticonderoga Nemo's in command NOT the General. Also the New Navy has their own gov't too.
Until Kevin (or some one else) stats Gen. Emmel out it's all subject to personal interpretation.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Sorry but I don't think they will run to lazlo, no world books aands till so many question about them and since most supernatural being don't really look at humans as equals ,well maybe on the dinner table.

You don't think they'd go to Lazlo because... Lazlo doesn't have a world book? I'm fairly certain that people on Rifts Earth don't base their decisions on what Palladium Books has published. And I don't even know what point you're trying to make about supernatural beings. Everyone's treated as an equal in Lazlo. It'd take Emmel five minutes to figure out that was the case with Lazlo. And upon closer inspection he'd find a society which is the closest on the continent to being an American society as they believe in freedom, democracy, and representative government. It's a place where he and his people can go to bed at night and not have to worry about a late night knock at the door only to find secret police who'll then drag them away in the night and throw them into prison without trial or due process where, if they're lucky, they'll waste away for the rest of their life or, if they're unlucky, they'll be brutally tortured before they're executed.

THAT is what it means to live in a police state. THAT is what Emmel and his people would realize the Coalition is. And that is precisely the sort of thing they'd have to fear as they're precisely the sort of people whom the Coalition targets, labeling as "Rogue Scholars" and the like. There's no way in Hell that they'd ever submit themselves to anything like that.

New navy, might be a option for them but still they have to make contact with them , and the new navy might not like have to answer commander or they might.

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. Emmel can technically pull rank on Nemo but that doesn't mean he would. The government which they both once served is gone, so obviously they'd approach each other as allies. And again I have to ask why you make these utterly bizarre leaps of logic. Why do you think it's perfectly reasonable that two men like Emmel and Nemo, who come from similar worlds and share similar beliefs, would be driven apart over minor tiffs, while at the same time believing that a man like Emmel would willingly risk his life by putting it in the hands of someone like Prosek, who he knows stands for everything which he grew up hating and despising, and who he knows may very well have him killed at the drop of a hat? I don't understand how you could come to such wildly different conclusions, that NEMA and the New Navy will clash despite everything they have in common but that NEMA and the Coalition will somehow become fast friends despite the fact that their philosophies are COMPLETELY at odds with each other.

Given Karl Prosek recent change of heart towards free Quebec, and NGR , the coalition might help them out but make it clear to stay out of their way.

What change of heart towards the NGR? They've always been allies. As for Free Quebec, is that the same Free Quebec which he tried to demolish? The Coalition is steadily trying to remove all elements of technology from North America which is superior to their own. They absolutely would not tolerate any force on the continent which had better technology than them, no matter who they are.

Honestly you making Emmel out to be a heck of a nice guy when there is not write up for him.

[Cyber-Knight]

"We will be the army of the New Republic that will restore peace and prosperity to our great nation. We are the hope for the future and we will not fail in that duty."

He didn't say they'd build an empire, but a republic. That's a pretty strong hint that he believes and supports the Constitution. It's ridiculous to suggest, then, that he'd embrace an organization like the Coalition. Just look at the Republicans. They despise the Coalition for their practices, and they're still somewhat of a human supremacist organization. So even if Emmel were too end up having human supremacist views (Which isn't likely, given that D-Bee's of North America tells us that the Squilb, at least, worked with NEMA during the Dark Ages), that doesn't mean he'd embrace the Coalition, as he'd despise the practices of the Coalition government. It's certainly not a government which he or any of his people would want to subject themselves to.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Now to be fair, Gen. Emmel & his troops DID go into stasis when the world was being overrun by nasty demons & monsters, so there might not have been enough time for him to establish the idea of a "good" vs. "bad" being. So on waking up he'd find a more stabilised world than when he went into stasis, but FAR more of these *d-bees* than he originally figured and he MIGHT be a hard liner that might like the CS (at least on the surface). Sure he's sworn the same oaths as all military personnel (or did he, we don't know for sure that NEMA follows the same standards our military does) but his attitude may be that all these aliens are interlopers, then again he could be a more *interpretive* kinda General and say "Well, we've got wannabe human fascists here (the CS), two city states (Lazlo &New Lazlo) that at least practice in some recognizable form the values I'm sworn to uphold, but they've elected a Dragon (WTH?) to their council and other, also militant, city sates (Northern Gun, etc.) and at my back a rather deranged AI with questionable goals. Hmmm which one do I choose?"
I come down on the side of "giving creatures the intelligence they were born with" as my old Gm used to say. Which means that I play Gen. Emmel as a man of (possibly) high intelligence who's not going to go off half cocked and will take the time to avail himself of all them data Archie has collected over the years, he might have Hagan locked up, initially, and then either kept under surveillance or exiled from the base.
As for contacting the New Navy, the Navy has their own High Command so they wouldn't have to answer to a General, their Admirals would tell him to take a hike. Nemo might defer to him on land as Nemo's only a Captain, but at sea on the Ticonderoga Nemo's in command NOT the General. Also the New Navy has their own gov't too.
Until Kevin (or some one else) stats Gen. Emmel out it's all subject to personal interpretation.

I agree , but he might look lazlo and new lazlo as a mockey too as well as looking at the d-bees as invaders too.