Recharging E-Clips

[Blue_Lion]

Hello everyone. First post here. I started playing Rifts waaaaay back in "92". It's crazy to think that was 20 years ago. Wow! Anyway, I was always the GM and ran a campaign that lasted 4 years. Then, as time rolled on, I moved, started other games, met new gamers, etc. Needless to say, I haven't run Rifts in quite a few years. Recently, I picked up the Ultimate Edition. However, I can't seem to find anywhere in the book that talks about the prices for recharging E-Clips. If anyone can point me in the right direction, that would be awesome. Sorry about the rambling. I'm just really excited. It's good to be back in the Megaverse after being away for so long.

Think source book 1 has the price list you looking for. Most people consider it over charging for it. As the GM you can charge what ever you want thou, even change it from town to town.

[nilgravity]

I don't have the book on me but in Phase world there is a race that can plug energy weapons into themselves instead of using e-clips. My friend figured out that meant he could probably charge e-clips for free. GM was not happy.
(If I remember how it went down right GM asked Kevin's wife and she said "hold on I'll ask" came back and confirmed)

[flatline]

RUE p268 lists costs for eclips and charging fees.

GMG talks about eclips (and alien equivelents) for almost every weapon maker.

There seem to be three groups of opinions on what it should cost to charge eclips:
1. eclips are supposed to be expensive to charge as part of the flavor and balance of the setting
2. eclips should be a fraction of the listed cost to charge (numbers vary from 1/3 to 1/10)
3. the eubiquitty of power sources like nuclear reactors in vehicles should make charging eclips essentially free once you buy or make the proper adapter for your eclips.

I don't know which camp is the largest here on the forums. Perhaps we should start a poll?

--flatline

[Armorlord]

RUE p268 lists costs for eclips and charging fees.

GMG talks about eclips (and alien equivelents) for almost every weapon maker.

There seem to be three groups of opinions on what it should cost to charge eclips:
1. eclips are supposed to be expensive to charge as part of the flavor and balance of the setting
2. eclips should be a fraction of the listed cost to charge (numbers vary from 1/3 to 1/10)
3. the eubiquitty of power sources like nuclear reactors in vehicles should make charging eclips essentially free once you buy or make the proper adapter for your eclips.

I don't know which camp is the largest here on the forums. Perhaps we should start a poll?

--flatline

I guess I'd be closer to camp #1, though I consider it more to be setting the bar for the economics of the game.
I can't call nuclear power reactors ubiquitous, you're looking at a million credits for a basic unit. So getting back a premium for charging e-clip is fair enough. Though the cost savings if you do have an operator and a spare reactor are pretty nice. I will note the downside to using a reactor you need for something else means a few hours of downtime for the vehicle while you switch over to charging instead of running the vehicle. Ship-scale ones have more power to spare though.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Thanks for the help and pointing me in the right directions.

I agree with flatline. We should start a poll asking how various GMs handle it in their games.

This topic was actually brought up and covered at length a week or two ago here, with many arguments and counter arguments. Just file back a page or two and you can find it.

Some of them being quite funny. There seems to be a number of people that think super advanced sci fi nuclear reactors have a positive pole and negative pole sticking off them like a car battery, and you just run some jumper cables from your Nuclear reactor to your eclip and poof you're done

[Pepsi Jedi]

Here ya go. 4 pages, dozens and dozens of opinions on it.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=130953

[flatline]

Some of them being quite funny. There seems to be a number of people that think super advanced sci fi nuclear reactors have a positive pole and negative pole sticking off them like a car battery, and you just run some jumper cables from your Nuclear reactor to your eclip and poof you're done

Let's not be too hasty with the straw men.

I said it would have clearly marked connectors. You asked if I meant it would have + and - terminals like a car battery. I said "yes" since it is impossible to make an electrical circuit without both a + and - connection. You chose to interpret "terminal" as "pole". I never agreed to that although, in theory, it could work (though sub-optimal compared to standard connectors we use today and, presumably, to the connectors they'll use in the future).

I also never said you could hook the eclip directly to the reactor's output without a control circuit in between. I even described what the control circuit might look like.

LOL all you want, but I never said anything as foolish as what you just described. Just on the off-chance that I'm not who you were alluding to (though there's no doubt in my mind), I didn't see anyone else suggest what you've just described either. So please, keep the straw men in the closet.

--flatline

[Pepsi Jedi]

Some of them being quite funny. There seems to be a number of people that think super advanced sci fi nuclear reactors have a positive pole and negative pole sticking off them like a car battery, and you just run some jumper cables from your Nuclear reactor to your eclip and poof you're done

Let's not be too hasty with the straw men.

I said it would have clearly marked connectors. You asked if I meant it would have + and - terminals like a car battery. I said "yes" since it is impossible to make an electrical circuit without both a + and - connection. You chose to interpret "terminal" as "pole". I never agreed to that although, in theory, it could work (though sub-optimal compared to standard connectors we use today and, presumably, to the connectors they'll use in the future).

I also never said you could hook the eclip directly to the reactor's output without a control circuit in between. I even described what the control circuit might look like.

LOL all you want, but I never said anything as foolish as what you just described. Just on the off-chance that I'm not who you were alluding to (though there's no doubt in my mind), I didn't see anyone else suggest what you've just described either. So please, keep the straw men in the closet.

--flatline

It wasn't a strawman, as your post above points out, you did say 'yes'. (As did one or two others I think)) There was also many mentions of just jury rigging from those supposed car battery like poles/terminals to recharging your Eclip like it's no big thing.

My post above was typed to be humorous, not hostile, as the entire concept is so blatantly absurd as to be silly. If not silly and funny to imagine someone trying that it dives right into absurdly stupid. So I choose to think you're being funny. Not dumb. It's a compliment in a way.

But yes, in my mind someone taking a super advanced, science fiction nuclear reactor that is SOOOO Scientifically advanced, that it's the size of a hockey puck, that can run contentiously for like 15 years powering military grade power armor or robot vehicles with many times the destructive capacity of a modern day tank, if not a tank platoon, and saying there's just a couple of car battery like poles/terminals on it and you can run some jumper cables from the super advanced nuclear reactor to a military grade power cell and slap um on there and recharge it... is one of two things. 1) Uproariously funny or 2) Cosmically stupid.

[Rimmer]

A Skelebot can charge an E-Clip in 90 seconds.

That was all I had......moving along.

[Blue_Lion]

A Skelebot can charge an E-Clip in 90 seconds.

That was all I had......moving along.

Odd i don't rember that feature.

Athou rifter 51 I think it is talks about modding vehicles with a E-clip charger but was part of an article from 50. The listed solar power as a option to recharge a e-clip in 6 hours instead of the 1 hour for a nucler power source.

[flatline]

Some of them being quite funny. There seems to be a number of people that think super advanced sci fi nuclear reactors have a positive pole and negative pole sticking off them like a car battery, and you just run some jumper cables from your Nuclear reactor to your eclip and poof you're done

Let's not be too hasty with the straw men.

I said it would have clearly marked connectors. You asked if I meant it would have + and - terminals like a car battery. I said "yes" since it is impossible to make an electrical circuit without both a + and - connection. You chose to interpret "terminal" as "pole". I never agreed to that although, in theory, it could work (though sub-optimal compared to standard connectors we use today and, presumably, to the connectors they'll use in the future).

I also never said you could hook the eclip directly to the reactor's output without a control circuit in between. I even described what the control circuit might look like.

LOL all you want, but I never said anything as foolish as what you just described. Just on the off-chance that I'm not who you were alluding to (though there's no doubt in my mind), I didn't see anyone else suggest what you've just described either. So please, keep the straw men in the closet.

--flatline

It wasn't a strawman, as your post above points out, you did say 'yes'. (As did one or two others I think)) There was also many mentions of just jury rigging from those supposed car battery like poles/terminals to recharging your Eclip like it's no big thing.

Consider the two following question-answer pairs:
Q: Do I have 2 legs like a kangaroo? A: Yes
Q: Do I have 2 kangaroo legs? A: No

Now consider your question and my answer from the other thread:
Q: Does it have + and - terminals like a car battery? A: Yes

Do you understand what question my "yes" was the answer to? It might not have been your intended question, but it's the question I thought you were asking. Perhaps we should just chalk this up to the ambiguity of natural language and move on.

--flatline

[Blue_Lion]

ummm this is looking like it might turn into a flame war why not just agree that you both may or may not think something than the other.

[jaymz]

@flatline - why perpetuate this here?

As for everything else. Simple solution, earn the credits and buy the eclip recharger from Merc Ops

[flatline]

As I said: let's "move on".

--flatline

[jaymz]

As I said: let's "move on".

--flatline

My bad, mia culpa

[Blue_Lion]

Well earning credits there are several ways to do it. One of my favorites is selling the bad guys vehicles.

[jaymz]

Well earning credits there are several ways to do it. One of my favorites is selling the bad guys vehicles.

There ya go. Sell a couple of damaged vehicles (typically it's just Main Body MDC that needs replacing for the most part) for trade and get a couple of Eclip rechargers. Free recharging for an entire campaign....unless it's stolen or destroyer

[Nightmask]

RUE p268 lists costs for eclips and charging fees.

GMG talks about eclips (and alien equivelents) for almost every weapon maker.

There seem to be three groups of opinions on what it should cost to charge eclips:
1. eclips are supposed to be expensive to charge as part of the flavor and balance of the setting
2. eclips should be a fraction of the listed cost to charge (numbers vary from 1/3 to 1/10)
3. the eubiquitty of power sources like nuclear reactors in vehicles should make charging eclips essentially free once you buy or make the proper adapter for your eclips.

I don't know which camp is the largest here on the forums. Perhaps we should start a poll?

--flatline

I guess I'd be closer to camp #1, though I consider it more to be setting the bar for the economics of the game.
I can't call nuclear power reactors ubiquitous, you're looking at a million credits for a basic unit. So getting back a premium for charging e-clip is fair enough. Though the cost savings if you do have an operator and a spare reactor are pretty nice. I will note the downside to using a reactor you need for something else means a few hours of downtime for the vehicle while you switch over to charging instead of running the vehicle. Ship-scale ones have more power to spare though.

If you reread that line he says 'power sources like nuclear reactors' he doesn't refer solely to nuclear reactors. There are a considerably larger range of sources of electricity than just nuclear reactors even if they are most common with a PC group. A group should be able to manage recharging E-clips at no cost to themselves and even recharge them for others at a nominal fee.

[Armorlord]

If you reread that line he says 'power sources like nuclear reactors' he doesn't refer solely to nuclear reactors. There are a considerably larger range of sources of electricity than just nuclear reactors even if they are most common with a PC group. A group should be able to manage recharging E-clips at no cost to themselves and even recharge them for others at a nominal fee.

Considering that it takes a million-credit nuclear reactor at a minimum (0.75 million for a specialized recharger only unit), that 'considerably larger range' just consists of more expensive power sources.
That 750 to 2000 credits is the 'nominal fee'.

[Nightmask]

If you reread that line he says 'power sources like nuclear reactors' he doesn't refer solely to nuclear reactors. There are a considerably larger range of sources of electricity than just nuclear reactors even if they are most common with a PC group. A group should be able to manage recharging E-clips at no cost to themselves and even recharge them for others at a nominal fee.

Considering that it takes a million-credit nuclear reactor at a minimum (0.75 million for a specialized recharger only unit), that 'considerably larger range' just consists of more expensive power sources.
That 750 to 2000 credits is the 'nominal fee'.

I haven't seen anywhere that it says it requires a million-credit nuclear reactor to recharge an e-clip, just because the portable recharger makes use of one doesn't make that a requirement it just means they went with the reactor because it was a compact, easily portable energy source with a decent lifespan good for many recharges. There's at least one rifle that you can recharge its E-clip battery using a solar panel array that comes with it, clearly you don't require an expensive power source to do the recharging. In any case the average PC group unless going out of its way to be anti-technology is going to have vehicles or other items that would allow them to do free recharging of their E-clips and those of others they meet if they feel like it.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well earning credits there are several ways to do it. One of my favorites is selling the bad guys vehicles.

There ya go. Sell a couple of damaged vehicles (typically it's just Main Body MDC that needs replacing for the most part) for trade and get a couple of Eclip rechargers. Free recharging for an entire campaign....unless it's stolen or destroyer

Aren't they like three quarters of a million bucks? Each.

[camk4evr]

RUE p268 lists costs for eclips and charging fees.

GMG talks about eclips (and alien equivelents) for almost every weapon maker.

There seem to be three groups of opinions on what it should cost to charge eclips:
1. eclips are supposed to be expensive to charge as part of the flavor and balance of the setting
2. eclips should be a fraction of the listed cost to charge (numbers vary from 1/3 to 1/10)
3. the eubiquitty of power sources like nuclear reactors in vehicles should make charging eclips essentially free once you buy or make the proper adapter for your eclips.

I don't know which camp is the largest here on the forums. Perhaps we should start a poll?

--flatline

I'm in camp 4. All of the above. It just depends where you are. IE. If out in the wilderness where electricity using communities are scarse then it's going to be expensive whereas, if you're in/near a high tech community then expect it to be cheap with most inns, hotels, and mechanics/operators shops being able to charge them. Also, I'd say some vehicles will have E-clip chargers built in (namely mobile bases, the behemoth explorer robot, all tech based ships, and some transports and APCs) while the majority of robot vehicles and power armour will need to be modified if you want to have them recharge e-clips (if it has a weapon that can use an e-clip as a backup power supply then it doesn't have to be modified to recharg e-clips).

[Pepsi Jedi]

If you reread that line he says 'power sources like nuclear reactors' he doesn't refer solely to nuclear reactors. There are a considerably larger range of sources of electricity than just nuclear reactors even if they are most common with a PC group. A group should be able to manage recharging E-clips at no cost to themselves and even recharge them for others at a nominal fee.

Considering that it takes a million-credit nuclear reactor at a minimum (0.75 million for a specialized recharger only unit), that 'considerably larger range' just consists of more expensive power sources.
That 750 to 2000 credits is the 'nominal fee'.

I haven't seen anywhere that it says it requires a million-credit nuclear reactor to recharge an e-clip, just because the portable recharger makes use of one doesn't make that a requirement it just means they went with the reactor because it was a compact, easily portable energy source with a decent lifespan good for many recharges. There's at least one rifle that you can recharge its E-clip battery using a solar panel array that comes with it, clearly you don't require an expensive power source to do the recharging. In any case the average PC group unless going out of its way to be anti-technology is going to have vehicles or other items that would allow them to do free recharging of their E-clips and those of others they meet if they feel like it.

Not 'In any case'. I'm not trying to be a stickler, but this rounds back to the "The nuclear reactor in my power armor or nuclear powered vehicle has battery terminals like a car battery and you can just run some jumper cables from it to your eclips and recharge them.

It's not that easy. Nothing in rifts even alludes to such a thing. It'd be like some marine on a Aircraft carrier trying to recharge his laptop by running some cables from the reactor to his computer.

[Nightmask]

I haven't seen anywhere that it says it requires a million-credit nuclear reactor to recharge an e-clip, just because the portable recharger makes use of one doesn't make that a requirement it just means they went with the reactor because it was a compact, easily portable energy source with a decent lifespan good for many recharges. There's at least one rifle that you can recharge its E-clip battery using a solar panel array that comes with it, clearly you don't require an expensive power source to do the recharging. In any case the average PC group unless going out of its way to be anti-technology is going to have vehicles or other items that would allow them to do free recharging of their E-clips and those of others they meet if they feel like it.

Not 'In any case'. I'm not trying to be a stickler, but this rounds back to the "The nuclear reactor in my power armor or nuclear powered vehicle has battery terminals like a car battery and you can just run some jumper cables from it to your eclips and recharge them.

It's not that easy. Nothing in rifts even alludes to such a thing. It'd be like some marine on a Aircraft carrier trying to recharge his laptop by running some cables from the reactor to his computer.

Pepsi Flatline already said just drop the strawman arguments. No one other than yourself has stated or implied you can 'just run some jumper cables off a nuclear supply and recharge an e-clip'. If you don't understand how electricity works or electrical terminology you shouldn't try telling the people who do that they're wrong or have said things that they haven't. Being a text-environment it's impossible to show you a simple block diagram to correct your errors but ALL sources of electrical power have the output in the basic format of a ground/return and the required voltage/current output. Some have a variety of flavors (the PC power supply outputs in at least 3 different voltages depending on what's meant to be powered) some have just one (car battery) but it does not matter what's producing the power the outputs are all fundamentally the same.

As far as the marine goes, he'd either be a moron trying that stunt or he'd be hooking up to an output feed from the reactor that's compatible to the power requirements of the computer because that Aircraft Carrier's nuclear reactor is in the end generating power by the same methods as a coal plant or hydroelectric dam. I gather you don't understand how such things work, as they're turbines powered by the heat given off by the pile which runs a generator with the required output, an output that may go into a converter to adjust it to other required outputs. The car battery btw is in the position of the E-clip, the car generator which is powered by the engine is in the position of the Nuclear Core. The battery just provides enough juice to get the engine started at which point the car's generator takes over all electrical requirements of the vehicle and outputs power to keep the battery recharged as it senses it running down. As long as the car is running it can charge up battery after battery (i.e. E-clip after E-clip) because it's set up that way.

As far as the ease of recharging E-clips go, odds are the writers at Palladium aren't possessed of backgrounds in electronics technology or electrical engineering so not recognizing how easy it should be to recharge an e-clip particularly for those with such an education is understandable. They almost completely gloss over the idea of E-clips and the recharging thereof, other than to note how easy it is for someone with the requisite skill to jury-rig an e-clip charger and if someone with the skill can easily make one then they actually aren't that hard to recharge.

[jaymz]

Well earning credits there are several ways to do it. One of my favorites is selling the bad guys vehicles.

There ya go. Sell a couple of damaged vehicles (typically it's just Main Body MDC that needs replacing for the most part) for trade and get a couple of Eclip rechargers. Free recharging for an entire campaign....unless it's stolen or destroyer

Aren't they like three quarters of a million bucks? Each.

And? Sell one disabled Robot (since typically most combats involve shutting down the robot due to the main body MD being depleted). I think a Robot that garners 25 million plus when 100% operational could fetch up to a million as salvage.

As for the charger, it gives no limit as to how many recharges it can do. Just says 12 year life span. 790 000 / 1 200 (E-Clip) or 2 000 (Long E-Clip) is 658 E-Clip or 395 Long E-Clip recharges before you recoup your costs and can recharge 8 E-Clips/Long E-Clips at a time in one hour. Seems fairly cost effective if you ask me. Hell you could open a wandering recharge service and make your money back pretty fast.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I haven't seen anywhere that it says it requires a million-credit nuclear reactor to recharge an e-clip, just because the portable recharger makes use of one doesn't make that a requirement it just means they went with the reactor because it was a compact, easily portable energy source with a decent lifespan good for many recharges. There's at least one rifle that you can recharge its E-clip battery using a solar panel array that comes with it, clearly you don't require an expensive power source to do the recharging. In any case the average PC group unless going out of its way to be anti-technology is going to have vehicles or other items that would allow them to do free recharging of their E-clips and those of others they meet if they feel like it.

Not 'In any case'. I'm not trying to be a stickler, but this rounds back to the "The nuclear reactor in my power armor or nuclear powered vehicle has battery terminals like a car battery and you can just run some jumper cables from it to your eclips and recharge them.

It's not that easy. Nothing in rifts even alludes to such a thing. It'd be like some marine on a Aircraft carrier trying to recharge his laptop by running some cables from the reactor to his computer.

Pepsi Flatline already said just drop the strawman arguments.

It might surprise you to know. I don't take commands from Flatline, or you.

And again it's not a strawman.

No one other than yourself has stated or implied you can 'just run some jumper cables off a nuclear supply and recharge an e-clip'.

Go re-read the 4 pages. Noone said 'Jumpercables' but yes, they very much implied it was that easy, and even here they're stating it again. "Oh anyone with a vehicle with a nuclear power supply can easily recharge eclips off it". Am I typing out their exact words? No. I'm paraphrasing. Their exact words are just as silly. They just try and use more of them.

If you don't understand how electricity works or electrical terminology you shouldn't try telling the people who do that they're wrong or have said things that they haven't

I understand how it works perfectly. it's not that difficult. I suggest you and others try and get some clue about nuclear reactors. Even fictional ones. They surely don't have a couple of poles/terminals stickin' off the top or side you can just run cables to what ever you want to juice. There's a good deal more to it than that.

Even the CONCEPT of "Jury rigging a nuclear reactor" should stop you in your tracks as to how amazingly 1) FUNNY, or 2) STUPID it is. You're either joking or WOW. to act like it's EASY and common practice to do so just expounds on it.

Being a text-environment it's impossible to show you a simple block diagram to correct your errors but ALL sources of electrical power have the output in the basic format of a ground/return and the required voltage/current output. Some have a variety of flavors (the PC power supply outputs in at least 3 different voltages depending on what's meant to be powered) some have just one (car battery) but it does not matter what's producing the power the outputs are all fundamentally the same.

A nuclear power supply built to run 15 years solid, powering a robot or power armor with the power of a modern day tank platoon, while being so hyper advanced as to be the size of a hockey puck, is not the same as a car battery. Don't care how many times you say it. The concept is absurd.

As far as the marine goes, he'd either be a moron trying that stunt or he'd be hooking up to an output feed from the reactor that's compatible to the power requirements of the computer because that Aircraft Carrier's nuclear reactor is in the end generating power by the same methods as a coal plant or hydroelectric dam.

And that's partially my point. You'd have to be a moron to try and hook directly to a nuclear reactor as people are saying.

I gather you don't understand how such things work, as they're turbines powered by the heat given off by the pile which runs a generator with the required output, an output that may go into a converter to adjust it to other required outputs.

I understand perfectly how they work. I'm no nuclear scientists but I get it. And again that's part of the point. There's a LOT of things between A (( the reactor)) and all the stuff inbetween to get to Z ( some sort of convverter and power regulation machinery ect that allows some guy on deck 15 4000 feet away to plug into an outlet with their computer.

People above are skipping all that. They're trying to run cables from their Reactor to their eclip and call 'er done.

The car battery btw is in the position of the E-clip, the car generator which is powered by the engine is in the position of the Nuclear Core. The battery just provides enough juice to get the engine started at which point the car's generator takes over all electrical requirements of the vehicle and outputs power to keep the battery recharged as it senses it running down. As long as the car is running it can charge up battery after battery (i.e. E-clip after E-clip) because it's set up that way.

As far as the ease of recharging E-clips go, odds are the writers at Palladium aren't possessed of backgrounds in electronics technology or electrical engineering so not recognizing how easy it should be to recharge an e-clip particularly for those with such an education is understandable.

While I fully agree that they're not electric engineers, and do hand wave an enormous ammount of 'science' in the 'Science fiction". The cost of recharging eclips has staid high for 20+ years. It's been brought up to them and it's been kept. That's on purpose.

So something in the "FICTIONAL" object of an Eclip... makes it harder than you think it should be. It's their world. They say it's harder. So it's harder in their world. Remember the FICTION in Science fiction.

They almost completely gloss over the idea of E-clips and the recharging thereof, other than to note how easy it is for someone with the requisite skill to jury-rig an e-clip charger and if someone with the skill can easily make one then they actually aren't that hard to recharge.

They gloss over most scientific things. I agree with you there. They don't note that it's that easy. 50 books and probably 100s of OOC's and stuff and there's still only a small handfull of ways. There's nothing to imply that you can just slap some cables on the thing and be done with it.

The fact that the recharger costs $750,000, implys it's no small thing.

[Blue_Lion]

Uggg this is starting to sound like some peoples personal grudge over the what people think or say. Can we please drop it. The question is on the cost of E-clips not on how hard it whould be for some one with weapon engernering or electrical engineering to make one.

[zaccheus]

It would be incredibly easy to charge off of the reactor in a power armor or robot. There are several power armors and robots with direct lines going from their power supply to various hand held weapons the PA and/or robot is carrying, and there are several weapons that have options of plugging into the the power supply of PA. Because the nuclear reactor already is set up with several lines feeding power into several different weapons and devices of the PA/Robot, it would be easy enough to refit one of those lines, one of the lines that specifically goes to the hand held weapon, or one of the lines designed on the weapon that can be plugged into the central reactor in order to charge eclips. Particullary when we are talking about a power armor with a weapon that is very similar to one that would otherwise use an eclip. It actually surprises me no one brought that up. Yea the idea of plugging your eclips into the reactor like a toaster is funny, but saying a character couldn't jury rig something off of the power cable that suplies the PA's hand held laser rifle to recharge eclips is as funny as the toaster idea.

[Pepsi Jedi]

It would be incredibly easy to charge off of the reactor in a power armor or robot. There are several power armors and robots with direct lines going from their power supply to various hand held weapons the PA and/or robot is carrying, and there are several weapons that have options of plugging into the the power supply of PA. Because the nuclear reactor already is set up with several lines feeding power into several different weapons and devices of the PA/Robot, it would be easy enough to refit one of those lines, one of the lines that specifically goes to the hand held weapon, or one of the lines designed on the weapon that can be plugged into the central reactor in order to charge eclips. Particullary when we are talking about a power armor with a weapon that is very similar to one that would otherwise use an eclip. It actually surprises me no one brought that up. Yea the idea of plugging your eclips into the reactor like a toaster is funny, but saying a character couldn't jury rig something off of the power cable that suplies the PA's hand held laser rifle to recharge eclips is as funny as the toaster idea.

If so, why is it not an option or feature of all the power armors and such?

Again, this is super advanced scifi tech. It might seem easy to you, as you're describing a process, but clearly "IN Rifts" it's not, or it'd be a common thing.

Plugging a cable INTO THE GUN to give it the power is different than plugging in a battery and recharging it to be used independantly from the weapon.

And again you're back to "Jury rigging" nuclear reactors and MD Energy storage devices.

Seriously though if it was as easy as is being made out, wouldn't it be a --------------------------COMMON-------------------------- thing, and as such wouldn't the armors cost more or eclip charging being less?

50+ books and Power armor that can charge eclips (( As far as I know)) isn't avabile on Rifts earth or in the 3 galexies. If it was this easy, why does nnone do it? There is some scifi technical thing, that prevents such.

[Natasha]

It would be incredibly easy to charge off of the reactor in a power armor or robot. There are several power armors and robots with direct lines going from their power supply to various hand held weapons the PA and/or robot is carrying, and there are several weapons that have options of plugging into the the power supply of PA. Because the nuclear reactor already is set up with several lines feeding power into several different weapons and devices of the PA/Robot, it would be easy enough to refit one of those lines, one of the lines that specifically goes to the hand held weapon, or one of the lines designed on the weapon that can be plugged into the central reactor in order to charge eclips. Particullary when we are talking about a power armor with a weapon that is very similar to one that would otherwise use an eclip. It actually surprises me no one brought that up. Yea the idea of plugging your eclips into the reactor like a toaster is funny, but saying a character couldn't jury rig something off of the power cable that suplies the PA's hand held laser rifle to recharge eclips is as funny as the toaster idea.

I'd say that you'll need an electrical engineer to design a device that properly regulates the voltage so as to not destroy the e-clip, which is essentially a capacitor. Or you can buy one already made for you by someone who already worked out the bugs. But what's the use of electrical engineer skill if you never use it?

[Greyaxe]

The Armorer skill specifically states it can use power armor to recharge e-clips.

[Pepsi Jedi]

The Armorer skill specifically states it can use power armor to recharge e-clips.

I looked it up in the RUE. "Field Armorer & Munitions Expert does NOT Say it can use power armor to recharge eclips. It says he knows HOW to recharge Eclips. Pg 315 RUE

"Weapons Engineer" The more complex version, also does NOT say it can use power armor to recharge eclips. It says it can recharge batteries and eclips. Pg 313 RUE

Can you cite your source where it says specifically it can use power armor to recharge eclips please?

[Greyaxe]

The Armorer skill specifically states it can use power armor to recharge e-clips.

I looked it up in the RUE. "Field Armorer & Munitions Expert does NOT Say it can use power armor to recharge eclips. It says he knows HOW to recharge Eclips. Pg 315 RUE

"Weapons Engineer" The more complex version, also does NOT say it can use power armor to recharge eclips. It says it can recharge batteries and eclips. Pg 313 RUE

Can you cite your source where it says specifically it can use power armor to recharge eclips please?

I stand corrected, New West Pg 74 states as RUE does that the armorer can recharge e-clips. It does not explicitly specify how. Our group has always used power armor NUKEs to do this.

I have to add. How does one charge an e-clip? There are portable e-clip chargers, where you put an e-clip into a universal port. I expect the armorer skill would allow you to at least repair or jury-rig rig one of theses. And if they can jurry rig on of these why not allow the skill to hot wire a PA or ROBOT to charge an e-clip.

[Rimmer]

A Skelebot can charge an E-Clip in 90 seconds.

That was all I had......moving along.

Odd i don't rember that feature.

Athou rifter 51 I think it is talks about modding vehicles with a E-clip charger but was part of an article from 50. The listed solar power as a option to recharge a e-clip in 6 hours instead of the 1 hour for a nucler power source.

The Skelebot (FASSAR 20 version) has a power cord which attaches to the CV-213 laser rifle, so to power it from its own internal nuclear power source, giving the rifle an unlimited payload.

The CV-213 also has an E-Clip for 30 shots worth. As the Skelebot gets 5 APM and has enough power for an unlimited payload, it stands to reason it would take 6 melees to fully power the clip assuming no combat actions were taken.

5 APM x 6 Melee rounds (15 sec each) = 30 Shots (long E-Clip) / or 90 seconds.

[Pepsi Jedi]

The Armorer skill specifically states it can use power armor to recharge e-clips.

I looked it up in the RUE. "Field Armorer & Munitions Expert does NOT Say it can use power armor to recharge eclips. It says he knows HOW to recharge Eclips. Pg 315 RUE

"Weapons Engineer" The more complex version, also does NOT say it can use power armor to recharge eclips. It says it can recharge batteries and eclips. Pg 313 RUE

Can you cite your source where it says specifically it can use power armor to recharge eclips please?

I stand corrected, New West Pg 74 states as RUE does that the armorer can recharge e-clips. It does not explicitly specify how. Our group has always used power armor NUKEs to do this.

I have to add. How does one charge an e-clip? There are portable e-clip chargers, where you put an e-clip into a universal port. I expect the armorer skill would allow you to at least repair or jury-rig rig one of theses. And if they can jurry rig on of these why not allow the skill to hot wire a PA or ROBOT to charge an e-clip.

It doesn't come right out and say it though. That's the thing. It implys that it's a big deal. 1) Though the fact that not very many people CAN do such things and 2) That the portable one costs almost a million bucks.

If one could just 'jurry rig' the nuclear reactor and plug in Eclips, then the eclip recharger wouldn't cost almost a million bucks. Right? Other wise every adventurer would just pay the operator to jury rig one before they left town and call it done, then never have to recharge eclips again.

But to answer your question, Portable Eclip rechargers cost three quarter a million bucks. That they're designated as portable, that means there are ones that are not. So the 'Normal' way to recharge an eclip would be to take it to an armorer that has said large very expensive machine, very likely with it's own dedicated nuclear power supply. They plug in the Eclips and recharge them. Some operator shops might also have these things.

[Galroth]

It doesn't come right out and say it though. That's the thing. It implys that it's a big deal. 1) Though the fact that not very many people CAN do such things and 2) That the portable one costs almost a million bucks.

If one could just 'jurry rig' the nuclear reactor and plug in Eclips, then the eclip recharger wouldn't cost almost a million bucks. Right? Other wise every adventurer would just pay the operator to jury rig one before they left town and call it done, then never have to recharge eclips again.

But to answer your question, Portable Eclip rechargers cost three quarter a million bucks. That they're designated as portable, that means there are ones that are not. So the 'Normal' way to recharge an eclip would be to take it to an armorer that has said large very expensive machine, very likely with it's own dedicated nuclear power supply. They plug in the Eclips and recharge them. Some operator shops might also have these things.

Doesn't the portable generator have it's own nuclear power supply? If so, that's where the cost is most likely coming from, not from the adapter used for hooking up the e-clip.

[Pepsi Jedi]

It doesn't come right out and say it though. That's the thing. It implys that it's a big deal. 1) Though the fact that not very many people CAN do such things and 2) That the portable one costs almost a million bucks.

If one could just 'jurry rig' the nuclear reactor and plug in Eclips, then the eclip recharger wouldn't cost almost a million bucks. Right? Other wise every adventurer would just pay the operator to jury rig one before they left town and call it done, then never have to recharge eclips again.

But to answer your question, Portable Eclip rechargers cost three quarter a million bucks. That they're designated as portable, that means there are ones that are not. So the 'Normal' way to recharge an eclip would be to take it to an armorer that has said large very expensive machine, very likely with it's own dedicated nuclear power supply. They plug in the Eclips and recharge them. Some operator shops might also have these things.

Doesn't the portable generator have it's own nuclear power supply? If so, that's where the cost is most likely coming from, not from the adapter used for hooking up the e-clip.

So do power armors and stuff, and they're made of MDC materials and give you the equivilent destructive power of a dozen pre rifts tanks (( and is strong enough to take blasts from same said tanks with out getting a scratch)) It's not like the reactor for the power armors are 95% of the cost, an all the armor and weaponry and such is just frills tacked on to the end.

So just the nuclear power supply on the recharger, likewise isn't 95% of the cost with just the machinery and adapters that keep the reactor from going crazy and blowing up or melting down when you're trying to hook up eclips. That machinery and stuff is as complex and needed as the ARMOR and weapons are on power armor.

Is the nuke part cheep? No. Not at all. That being said power armors and stuff all have them too and start around the same cost. 750,000 and up up up.

[Natasha]

It doesn't come right out and say it though. That's the thing. It implys that it's a big deal. 1) Though the fact that not very many people CAN do such things and 2) That the portable one costs almost a million bucks.

If one could just 'jurry rig' the nuclear reactor and plug in Eclips, then the eclip recharger wouldn't cost almost a million bucks. Right? Other wise every adventurer would just pay the operator to jury rig one before they left town and call it done, then never have to recharge eclips again.

But to answer your question, Portable Eclip rechargers cost three quarter a million bucks. That they're designated as portable, that means there are ones that are not. So the 'Normal' way to recharge an eclip would be to take it to an armorer that has said large very expensive machine, very likely with it's own dedicated nuclear power supply. They plug in the Eclips and recharge them. Some operator shops might also have these things.

Doesn't the portable generator have it's own nuclear power supply? If so, that's where the cost is most likely coming from, not from the adapter used for hooking up the e-clip.

So do power armors and stuff, and they're made of MDC materials and give you the equivilent destructive power of a dozen pre rifts tanks (( and is strong enough to take blasts from same said tanks with out getting a scratch)) It's not like the reactor for the power armors are 95% of the cost, an all the armor and weaponry and such is just frills tacked on to the end.

So just the nuclear power supply on the recharger, likewise isn't 95% of the cost with just the machinery and adapters that keep the reactor from going crazy and blowing up or melting down when you're trying to hook up eclips. That machinery and stuff is as complex and needed as the ARMOR and weapons are on power armor.

Is the nuke part cheep? No. Not at all. That being said power armors and stuff all have them too and start around the same cost. 750,000 and up up up.

The cost of nuclear power plants in Rifts is arbitrary. Mostly though this is just Rifts economics trying to keep these things out of every vagabond's backyard.

[flatline]

The cost of nuclear power plants in Rifts is arbitrary. Mostly though this is just Rifts economics trying to keep these things out of every vagabond's backyard.

This statement seems true.

Looking through the vehicles section of the GMG and comparing vehicle cost with combustion engine verses the same vehicle with nuclear yields the following:

Hovercycles & Rocket Bikes:
Legion 50/50: 120k vs 1100k. Nuclear value-add: 980k
NG-220: 120k vs 675k. Nuclear value-add: 555k
NG-230: 182k vs 875k. Nuclear value-add: 693k
NG-300: 98k vs 450k. Nuclear value-add: 352k
NG-400: 180k vs 795k. Nuclear value-add: 615k
NG-480: 225k vs 850k. Nuclear value-add: 625k

Jet Packs:
Legion-90: 30k vs 400k. Nuclear value-add: 370k
Wilk's Jet Pack: 38k vs 250k. Nuclear value-add: 212k
Falcon 300: 30k vs 400k. Nuclear value-add: 370k

Of course, this overestimates the cost of the reactor since I'm comparing market prices rather than cost to produce and it seems likely that the nuclear versions of each vehicle have a higher margin built into the price.

An interesting observation is that of these, the cheapest reactor comes with the Wilk's Jet pack which, if you use it to power your weapon directly (or to recharge your eclips), is extremely competitive with the Northern Gun self-charging power packs. It's larger, but will give you more shots for the money and much longer life-time.

--flatline

[Blue_Lion]

It would be incredibly easy to charge off of the reactor in a power armor or robot. There are several power armors and robots with direct lines going from their power supply to various hand held weapons the PA and/or robot is carrying, and there are several weapons that have options of plugging into the the power supply of PA. Because the nuclear reactor already is set up with several lines feeding power into several different weapons and devices of the PA/Robot, it would be easy enough to refit one of those lines, one of the lines that specifically goes to the hand held weapon, or one of the lines designed on the weapon that can be plugged into the central reactor in order to charge eclips. Particullary when we are talking about a power armor with a weapon that is very similar to one that would otherwise use an eclip. It actually surprises me no one brought that up. Yea the idea of plugging your eclips into the reactor like a toaster is funny, but saying a character couldn't jury rig something off of the power cable that suplies the PA's hand held laser rifle to recharge eclips is as funny as the toaster idea.

I'd say that you'll need an electrical engineer to design a device that properly regulates the voltage so as to not destroy the e-clip, which is essentially a capacitor. Or you can buy one already made for you by someone who already worked out the bugs. But what's the use of electrical engineer skill if you never use it?

Actualy I think building a e-clip charger is listed under weapons engineer, and maybe field armor. Now if you are taping into the PA power system then you need robot electronics to not mess it up. Basicaly not something most charters will have the skill to. Athou taping into the power suply of a vehicle might be electrical generation equipment.

Normaly the only charters with the skills are support classes such as operators or technicle classes like rouge scintest. Now building and repairing tech is what the Operator class is about so it should be something they could do with the right parts and skills.

It should also be noted that not all power plants have the same power output. So a nucler reactor that puts out less power may be cheeper.

[Pepsi Jedi]

It would be incredibly easy to charge off of the reactor in a power armor or robot. There are several power armors and robots with direct lines going from their power supply to various hand held weapons the PA and/or robot is carrying, and there are several weapons that have options of plugging into the the power supply of PA. Because the nuclear reactor already is set up with several lines feeding power into several different weapons and devices of the PA/Robot, it would be easy enough to refit one of those lines, one of the lines that specifically goes to the hand held weapon, or one of the lines designed on the weapon that can be plugged into the central reactor in order to charge eclips. Particullary when we are talking about a power armor with a weapon that is very similar to one that would otherwise use an eclip. It actually surprises me no one brought that up. Yea the idea of plugging your eclips into the reactor like a toaster is funny, but saying a character couldn't jury rig something off of the power cable that suplies the PA's hand held laser rifle to recharge eclips is as funny as the toaster idea.

I'd say that you'll need an electrical engineer to design a device that properly regulates the voltage so as to not destroy the e-clip, which is essentially a capacitor. Or you can buy one already made for you by someone who already worked out the bugs. But what's the use of electrical engineer skill if you never use it?

Actualy I think building a e-clip charger is listed under weapons engineer, and maybe field armor. Now if you are taping into the PA power system then you need robot electronics to not mess it up. Basicaly not something most charters will have the skill to. Athou taping into the power suply of a vehicle might be electrical generation equipment.

Normaly the only charters with the skills are support classes such as operators or technicle classes like rouge scintest. Now building and repairing tech is what the Operator class is about so it should be something they could do with the right parts and skills.

It should also be noted that not all power plants have the same power output. So a nucler reactor that puts out less power may be cheeper.

But it's not under either. I pointed out and even quoted page numbers. It just says they can 'Recharge eclips".

[Natasha]

But it's not under either. I pointed out and even quoted page numbers. It just says they can 'Recharge eclips".

Yep. I suppose that some GM would allow it to fall under the Weapon Engineering skill. The character will “modify” a “power source”. A bit of a stretch, perhaps, but I can see it being made.

[Natasha]

It would be incredibly easy to charge off of the reactor in a power armor or robot. There are several power armors and robots with direct lines going from their power supply to various hand held weapons the PA and/or robot is carrying, and there are several weapons that have options of plugging into the the power supply of PA. Because the nuclear reactor already is set up with several lines feeding power into several different weapons and devices of the PA/Robot, it would be easy enough to refit one of those lines, one of the lines that specifically goes to the hand held weapon, or one of the lines designed on the weapon that can be plugged into the central reactor in order to charge eclips. Particullary when we are talking about a power armor with a weapon that is very similar to one that would otherwise use an eclip. It actually surprises me no one brought that up. Yea the idea of plugging your eclips into the reactor like a toaster is funny, but saying a character couldn't jury rig something off of the power cable that suplies the PA's hand held laser rifle to recharge eclips is as funny as the toaster idea.

I'd say that you'll need an electrical engineer to design a device that properly regulates the voltage so as to not destroy the e-clip, which is essentially a capacitor. Or you can buy one already made for you by someone who already worked out the bugs. But what's the use of electrical engineer skill if you never use it?

Actualy I think building a e-clip charger is listed under weapons engineer, and maybe field armor. Now if you are taping into the PA power system then you need robot electronics to not mess it up. Basicaly not something most charters will have the skill to. Athou taping into the power suply of a vehicle might be electrical generation equipment.

Normaly the only charters with the skills are support classes such as operators or technicle classes like rouge scintest. Now building and repairing tech is what the Operator class is about so it should be something they could do with the right parts and skills.

It should also be noted that not all power plants have the same power output. So a nucler reactor that puts out less power may be cheeper.

Power armour is not a robot and a robot is not power armour. Tapping into a vehicle’s power supply is not so different. It is not a question of generating electricity as the electricity is already being generated. Now if you have a captured skelebot and you are wanting to do something with that, then I can see getting into Robot Electronics skills.

Another way to cheapen a power plant is to reduce its lifespan rather than its output. Rifts has some 10 year nuclear power plants.

[Pepsi Jedi]

But it's not under either. I pointed out and even quoted page numbers. It just says they can 'Recharge eclips".

Yep. I suppose that some GM would allow it to fall under the Weapon Engineering skill. The character will “modify” a “power source”. A bit of a stretch, perhaps, but I can see it being made.

A stretch I could see being made too. *nodnod* I totally agree that some gm's would allow it and allow the stretch to be made.

My point was just that it's not actually listed as people are saying it is. When they say " _____ "Specifically" states it can do ______" as if it's in there word for word, and you open the book and it doesn't say that, much less specifically say it.....

That's what it is. A stretch that might be allowed by a GM. Not something specifically stated. It's a bit nitpicky, I know that. there is a difference though.

[Nightmask]

It would be incredibly easy to charge off of the reactor in a power armor or robot. There are several power armors and robots with direct lines going from their power supply to various hand held weapons the PA and/or robot is carrying, and there are several weapons that have options of plugging into the the power supply of PA. Because the nuclear reactor already is set up with several lines feeding power into several different weapons and devices of the PA/Robot, it would be easy enough to refit one of those lines, one of the lines that specifically goes to the hand held weapon, or one of the lines designed on the weapon that can be plugged into the central reactor in order to charge eclips. Particullary when we are talking about a power armor with a weapon that is very similar to one that would otherwise use an eclip. It actually surprises me no one brought that up. Yea the idea of plugging your eclips into the reactor like a toaster is funny, but saying a character couldn't jury rig something off of the power cable that suplies the PA's hand held laser rifle to recharge eclips is as funny as the toaster idea.

I'd say that you'll need an electrical engineer to design a device that properly regulates the voltage so as to not destroy the e-clip, which is essentially a capacitor. Or you can buy one already made for you by someone who already worked out the bugs. But what's the use of electrical engineer skill if you never use it?

Actualy I think building a e-clip charger is listed under weapons engineer, and maybe field armor. Now if you are taping into the PA power system then you need robot electronics to not mess it up. Basicaly not something most charters will have the skill to. Athou taping into the power suply of a vehicle might be electrical generation equipment.

Normaly the only charters with the skills are support classes such as operators or technicle classes like rouge scintest. Now building and repairing tech is what the Operator class is about so it should be something they could do with the right parts and skills.

It should also be noted that not all power plants have the same power output. So a nucler reactor that puts out less power may be cheeper.

Unfortunately whoever wrote up the skills (and something that's never been corrected since then) seemed to think e-clips inexplicably were under the mechanical rather than electrical side of things, so had it on the mechanical side of the skills for setting up and rigging recharging systems rather than electrical. As an electrical storage device rigging up a recharging device should be doable by someone with the Electrical Engineering or Basic Electronics skills rather than with mechanical oriented skills like Field Armorer.

[escargotini]

A Skelebot can charge an E-Clip in 90 seconds.

That was all I had......moving along.

How many Operators does it take to charge an E-Clip? 5!
One to plug it in and 4 to hold down the Skelebot
*rimshot*

Usually my PCs hook up an E-Clip charger in their vehicle or home, or pay someone to do it if there isn't an Operator in the party. It shouldn't be terribly hard to splice it into the wiring. Realistically, they could probably use a device like a car cel phone charger