Inevitable super-science: M.D.C. in Heroes Unlimited

[DtMK]

I'm currently taking a break from my own games right now, but one thing I considered is a possibility for science fiction and super-science to eventually collide in the Heroes Unlimited Earth. Comics have long had ideas years, decades ahead of their time. What is fiction may one day become fact. With that said, I predict it being only a matter of time before some super genius takes technology to the next level and creates Mega-Damage alloys in this game setting.

In Rifts/Chaos Earth, such tech existed before the 22'nd century. In Robotech and Macross, they had it over thirty years ago our time! Given that there will always be a supervillain looking for the next big thing, it seems like a foregone conclusion. I don't predict it'll be a huge amount of M.D.C., but something that will just shake off your average attacks? Sure.

So what do you think of M.D.C. in a Heroes Unlimited world some time in the near future? Would The Usurper or some other genius create it first? Will it be a product of the military then stolen? What do you think will be the wave of M.D.C. in this setting?

[wyrmraker]

Actually, the reference is given in Powers Unlimited 2, under Endoskeletal Replacement.
And I do agree that it's inevitable that one of the Genius categories will invent a compound equivalent to MD material. I'm playing a Natural Genius that is actually working on assembling a brand-new, hyperdense element. He could do it, too, if the GM would ever let me start rolling for my inventions...

[Nightmask]

As stated, it's inevitable that someone will pull it off. And it need not be the deathknell for S.D.C. heroes. There are numerous ways to defeat M.D.C. armor, for instance, with creative uses of existing super powers. Similarly, there are a number of powers that will flat out ignore M.D. weapons, and dodging isn't an obsolete skill even in the more standard M.D. settings. So things will definitely get more dangerous, but not necessarily game-breakingly dangerous.

Aim for the joints, that's what the heroes do when going up against Ultron.

[Nightmask]

As stated, it's inevitable that someone will pull it off. And it need not be the deathknell for S.D.C. heroes. There are numerous ways to defeat M.D.C. armor, for instance, with creative uses of existing super powers. Similarly, there are a number of powers that will flat out ignore M.D. weapons, and dodging isn't an obsolete skill even in the more standard M.D. settings. So things will definitely get more dangerous, but not necessarily game-breakingly dangerous.

Aim for the joints, that's what the heroes do when going up against Ultron.

Either that or reach down his throat... He really should build a body that can shut it's own mouth one day.

True, then again maybe cause he's got that Ultron Computer Bank that creates new Ultrons he doesn't worry about a particular body. Plus his open mouth leads into a fusion reactor supposedly so not the safest place to be reaching (so while it looked cool Machine Man shouldn't have been able to beat him that way). Still with that Adamantium shell Ultron definitely qualifies as an MDC thing relative to a bunch of SDC creatures yet they manage to defeat him time and time again by exploiting the vulnerable spots.

The same follows with the Bionic Man when he fought those Venus probes. They had 'invulnerable' armor and yet he successfully found ways of defeating both of them (although having the one explode due to depressurization was a logic fail on the part of the writer since the probe managed to come from Venus to Earth through the vacuum of space without exploding). The first MDC things would be little different than an Invulnerable character running around. If you can't break it directly you break it indirectly.

[Nightmask]

It's nice to see that the consensus so far accepts the inevitability of MDC in HU... I fought this war years ago, when the dominant opinion on the board was to follow the precedent of the Rifts Conversion Book:

By the Laws of Kevin/Wayne, the Megaverse isn't one big universe that all follows a single rule set. SDC settings exist under different rules and MDC is simply not possible. If you travel through a Rift in a GlitterBoy armor and land on HU Earth it will be converted into an SDC bot with a very loud SD weapon.

Totally lame, if you ask me... The possibility of a rare MDC "mega" hero is the entire meta-plot of modern Superman. He can be hurt by big enough attacks, but typically exists on a different scale than human meat and bone can generate. And, of course, necessity being the mother of invention, Lex Luthor will eventually adapt and develop something to compete with the Big Blue.

I never particularly found any logic to the idea of 'well MDC items magically become SDC even if it's super-technology' just because it's an SDC setting like HU or Nightbane anyway. It requires the idea that the multiverse has some kind of awareness and sometimes it downgrades things and sometimes it doesn't so it may or may not fit into where it shows up.

[FreelancerMar]

Blame the Cosmic Forge!

[Nightmask]

Blame the Cosmic Forge!

Isn't that like blaming Superboy-Prime for things?

[DtMK]

It could be worse, at least no one's statted out the Giga-Hero class yet...

[Regularguy]

Totally lame, if you ask me... The possibility of a rare MDC "mega" hero is the entire meta-plot of modern Superman.

Doesn't HU already give you the option of playing a hero with Invulnerability, such that you can shrug off ordinary knives and bullets and so on?

[boxee]

I agree this is covered by the various mega-hero ideas. In heroes unlimited this rule should stay in place. My reasoning ok you have a character like wolverine, his claws are so sharp he cuts through steel......... It falls back the the myth that a samurai sword can cut through plate armor, cool idea but not accurate. Can a samurai sword cut through bone? YES. Cut through wood or bamboo? YES. Cut through an iron bar? NO.
So to keep characters like wolverine working I say leave it SDC.
Also mega-heroes can be impossible to kill, had a player RANDOMLY roll invulnerability, it was a nightmare dealing with his character. And he was not even a mega!

[Her0man0]

Another example of MD creatures in an SDC world would be Dragon Ball Z

regular weapons and attacks do no damage to these guys, they regularly get thrown through mountains and it doesnt even hurt them, there's a scene where Piccolo is surrounded my the military and they blast him with guns and missiles and he isnt even scratched!

then just take a look at their energy blasts, they destroy mountains and create huge craters, if thats not an example of MD in action then i dont know what is

[The Baron of chaos]

Another example of MD creatures in an SDC world would be Dragon Ball Z

regular weapons and attacks do no damage to these guys, they regularly get thrown through mountains and it doesnt even hurt them, there's a scene where Piccolo is surrounded my the military and they blast him with guns and missiles and he isnt even scratched!

then just take a look at their energy blasts, they destroy mountains and create huge craters, if thats not an example of MD in action then i dont know what is

Is curious but i was thinking the same thing, for lot of times. But the turth the same could be said about LOT of anime series, and A LOT of comics. In many way a pivotal part of the story, in Anime, Manga or Super hero Comics, is "the hero/villain is one of the few with Megadamage powers/Technology in the whole world, and need to decide how to use it"
In Hokuto No Ken, the martial artist are able to dish what can only be described as Megadamage (on an OAV Ken walk calm thourgh a falling building, and in the anime he once stopped a freaking train)
In Mazinger saga, and most robotic sagas, the mecha is the last hope for humakind due a special power system and special and unique alloy that amke the only useful tool against invaders
In Inu-Yasha half demon are often feared but coveted to fight demons for they have the same moutnain shattering magical powers
Akira is brilliant example of a powerfull Megadamage psionic, who can get hurt only by the most powerfull and advanced tech(megadamage lasers mostly)
The Strange Talent of Luther Strode could be called "life and times of a natural titan juicer" and the first scens of the comics are nice example of what physical megadamage punches DO to a SDC body
In Marvel comics a certain canadian mutant wiht a massive healing factor(comparable to vampires) was given a unbreakeble hyperdense alloy skeleton, so to make it a more better assasin for killing even god like beings
Batman is the only one NON-MDC being of Justice League(yes Aquaman is it, high pressure of sea and all). Batman wear armor , albeit is kinda light
Guyver(to manga and anime agan): Look splicer, please Note guyver units , at first, had the most powerfull Megadamage energy blast and had probably Supernatural PS, dislike most of Zoanoid
Robocop: oh yes he, the ED units, and his succesor are such, albeit for Rifts standards they would be light MDC....but in a 90% SDc world...the bad guys had to use military grade weapons to damage robocop
Scanners: while i hate the Mind Bolt, for its excessive cost, or at least for the consequences on ISP to recover, but Megadamage mind bolt targeted at head? Istant Headsplosion
Iron Man Armor: his armor is one of the few MDC tech in world, well for a while at lease it was so...

[AlanGunhouse]

Umm, guys...what happened to the no conversion rule?

[Severus Snape]

Umm, guys...what happened to the no conversion rule?

Apparently, someone threw them out the window by bringing a certain caped hero from one of them comic worlds into the discussion of MDC vs. SDC. Topic is dangerously close to getting locked. All we have to do now is just hope NMI doesn't come in here and see this...

[AlanGunhouse]

You just need to be more general I guess, rather than say any specific character, say "some comic characters".

[Nightmask]

His claws don't cut because they're sharp, they cut because they're NOT sdc.

MDC claws vs SDC steel = lol

It isn't hard to deal with the toughest character you can possibly imagine, if anything it just makes it more interesting when you have someone you can literally drop a 747 on without feeling bad about it.




Another example of MDC in SDC settings besides Robotech/Superman, Neon Genesis Evangelion.

The heavy weapons inflict thousands of SD, and the largest inflict a few MD, while Angel and Eva AT fields are major MDC structures with hundreds or more MDC that regenerates rapidly.

One of them like Ramiel firing his MDC "go away" beam at a mountain produces a rather dramatic illustration of why converting things to SDC isn't very interesting.

Wolverine's claws cut through steel like they do because the writers want them to, otherwise they'd just bounce off leaving not much beyond a scratch. Magical weapons are obviously MD durabilty since they're indestructible but you aren't going to find someone getting away with arguing 'well my sword's indestructible so I should be able to cut through bank vaults just like Wolverine does because I'm just as strong'.

Being unbreakable only takes you so far, as does having a sharp edge. Without some kind of plausible explanation that works in the setting it shouldn't work. Black Knight's Ebony Blade cutting through an I-beam works because it's magically sharp, Wolverine works from fan popularity which isn't plausible (heck he's shown cutting neat human-sized circular holes in steel walls that are three times the thickness of the lengths of his claws, something that should be possible even in comic-book physics).

[wyrmraker]

Yes, but how many game masters will allow such an edge? An edge like that would hardly be definable within the HU rules system.

[Nightmask]

Yes, but how many game masters will allow such an edge? An edge like that would hardly be definable within the HU rules system.

I'd have to agree, of course not like Wolverine's claws have a monomolecular edge (they're only as sharp as story requires, he's shown using the claws to climb structures even though if they were that sharp he could never successfully gain purchase enough to go up as shown) but super-sharp things that can effectively one-shot-kill targets is generally not within the purview of what Palladium provides. Just as they go to a great deal of effort to nerf many things to be far less effective than they ought to be.

[TechnoGothic]

Even if they were mdc weapons (wolverine's claws), they do not do md, because he is not supernaturaly strong. He is Normal PS or Strong PS only. Wolverine could hack away at md walls all he want, he will do nothing.
Question is though, does MD Blades ignore SDC Armor ratings or not like Supernatural PS does in Nightbane, inlficting Half Damage at least to Invulnerable characters even ? I think so. So I would allow Wolverine claws to inflict Half Damage to MDC materials even, but not full damage because he lacks the Supernatural PS needed to harm it easily.

[TechnoGothic]

If you're not using MDC in the setting, I'd represent them with the Disintegration minor power, myself.

Reduce the range to the weapon length, and you only need to roll to see if you hurt yourself if you flub a Nat 1 since it's a melee weapon not a gaze beam, and it's pretty much a super invention so it isn't something every shmuck will have... but when you absolutely positively gotta diagonal cut everything in the room, accept no substitutes.


Now, if you have a sword that does just 1 or 2 points of MD in an otherwise SDC setting, you'll be hard pressed to find a better presentation of a monomolecular/subatomic edge really.

Take a Look at the Cyberai in Phase World for a Monomolecular Blade damage in a MD setting. Nasty weapons. At least they cut nice straight lines. 5d6 md for the weapon itself. Wow.

[AlanGunhouse]

As an aside, there ARE at least two characters with magic swords I can think of who do use them to cut through steel like butter. as noted, however, those weapons are magically sharp as well as indestructible.

[FreelancerMar]

Actually Wolverines Claws Breaks the Laws of Physics each and every time the writers want them to. Just because something is "Unbreakable" does NOT mean that they do any more damage than most other weapons of the same type. Unless it is SNPS and we know that it is not the damage inflicted by the "Claws" is SD and not MD. In most cases MD Flat out ignores any and all types of AR Period!!!! Most MD attacks can usually OSK a Modern MBT.

[boxee]

I still say leave it sdc. It works as sdc, dont screw it up.

[The Baron of chaos]

His claws don't cut because they're sharp, they cut because they're NOT sdc.

MDC claws vs SDC steel = lol

It isn't hard to deal with the toughest character you can possibly imagine, if anything it just makes it more interesting when you have someone you can literally drop a 747 on without feeling bad about it.




Another example of MDC in SDC settings besides Robotech/Superman, Neon Genesis Evangelion.

The heavy weapons inflict thousands of SD, and the largest inflict a few MD, while Angel and Eva AT fields are major MDC structures with hundreds or more MDC that regenerates rapidly.

One of them like Ramiel firing his MDC "go away" beam at a mountain produces a rather dramatic illustration of why converting things to SDC isn't very interesting.

Wolverine's claws cut through steel like they do because the writers want them to, otherwise they'd just bounce off leaving not much beyond a scratch. Magical weapons are obviously MD durabilty since they're indestructible but you aren't going to find someone getting away with arguing 'well my sword's indestructible so I should be able to cut through bank vaults just like Wolverine does because I'm just as strong'.

Being unbreakable only takes you so far, as does having a sharp edge. Without some kind of plausible explanation that works in the setting it shouldn't work. Black Knight's Ebony Blade cutting through an I-beam works because it's magically sharp, Wolverine works from fan popularity which isn't plausible (heck he's shown cutting neat human-sized circular holes in steel walls that are three times the thickness of the lengths of his claws, something that should be possible even in comic-book physics).

Did you know that kisentite doe megadamage(albeit less than vibroblade) due its density? Some material can have quite some peculiarity(Rifts Earth has some example of this other than Kisentite, there ar ethose deevil crystals, New York Mutants bones...no joke their bones are natural Megadamage weapons and so on). adamntium is one metal, pardon ALLOY, whose proprieties are not just being unbreakable, once forged. Infact seem, other than be crazy dense, and oddly prone to assume supersharp edges, to have some energy disrupting/breaking proprieties(proved by the fact that his claws, and only his claws, can bypass force fields), probably inherited by the vibranium componentes of the alloy.
Again this is fan theory. The truth is that in fiction stuff cut in awesome way, not just wolverine claws, but also fantasy hero swords and karate chops, because authors says so - rule of cool(proof the fact that sometimes wolverine chope stuff apart even if they are way thicker than its claws length). That said my theory is solid, and all info i've quoted, as adamntium being an alloy of vibranium and steel, is canon
Curiously the best equivalent of adamntium weapon, and exampe of Megadamage weapon in an SDC setting, are the infamous Dark Blades used by the Nightlords and their minions, sure is a magic alloy, but fit the adamantium role quite well. Ignore armor, and does insane damage, and is pretty much unbreakable...

[Nightmask]

Did you know that kisentite doe megadamage(albeit less than vibroblade) due its density? Some material can have quite some peculiarity(Rifts Earth has some example of this other than Kisentite, there ar ethose deevil crystals, New York Mutants bones...no joke their bones are natural Megadamage weapons and so on). adamntium is one metal, pardon ALLOY, whose proprieties are not just being unbreakable, once forged. Infact seem, other than be crazy dense, and oddly prone to assume supersharp edges, to have some energy disrupting/breaking proprieties(proved by the fact that his claws, and only his claws, can bypass force fields), probably inherited by the vibranium componentes of the alloy.
Again this is fan theory. The truth is that in fiction stuff cut in awesome way, not just wolverine claws, but also fantasy hero swords and karate chops, because authors says so - rule of cool(proof the fact that sometimes wolverine chope stuff apart even if they are way thicker than its claws length). That said my theory is solid, and all info i've quoted, as adamntium being an alloy of vibranium and steel, is canon
Curiously the best equivalent of adamntium weapon, and exampe of Megadamage weapon in an SDC setting, are the infamous Dark Blades used by the Nightlords and their minions, sure is a magic alloy, but fit the adamantium role quite well. Ignore armor, and does insane damage, and is pretty much unbreakable...

Uh no, Adamantium is not an alloy of vibranium and steel, that's Captain America's shield. Adamantium contains no vibranium at all and was created as a result of failed efforts on the part of the shield's creator attempting to reverse engineer the alloy of Cap's shield. It canonically does not contain vibranium and is a mixture of two unknown steel alloys. Adamantium's durability comes from being possessed of an extremely stable molecular structure that resists damage exceptionally well and is not a result of it being exceptionally dense. This won't do anything to make something cut better when it's just capable of not being damaged like other things, and vibranium's properties are to absorb vibrational energy nothing about that which would support the idea of it cutting through anything and it can be destroyed just by overloading it with a lot of vibrational energy such as when Roxxan destroyed an island of of it with a heavy bombardment of explosives.

Either way being unbreakable doesn't and shouldn't make anything able to cut stuff just because it can't be broken. You don't cut through a bank vault just because you've a sharp knife that can't be broken, which is all Wolverine has in the end. Three built-in swords in each hand that at razor sharp, of which an unbreakable razor isn't going to slice up a vault either. Not unless you're propelling it at massive speeds or otherwise backing it with a lot of kinetic energy.

[The Baron of chaos]

Well, again, an arbitrarily sharp unbreakable blade can break molecular bonds rather trivially.

Well depend how dense it is. But agian is fictional metals and alloys we are talking here. True to be told, Vibranium, and Cap's shield are easy, but if Adamntium does not contain Vibranium it leave me confused about how it does ****** work...Seriously for Anime Samurai's is also easy, they channel energy or the sword is magical or both. But wolvering claws? (and the less we talk about the new Ultimate Wolverine the better....).

Either way being unbreakable doesn't and shouldn't make anything able to cut stuff just because it can't be broken. You don't cut through a bank vault just because you've a sharp knife that can't be broken, which is all Wolverine has in the end. Three built-in swords in each hand that at razor sharp, of which an unbreakable razor isn't going to slice up a vault either. Not unless you're propelling it at massive speeds or otherwise backing it with a lot of kinetic energy.

On Wolverin note, I was checking online for see if i was wrong or not. And while it does confirm what you said about Adamntium composition(and this leav eme baffled) it does say that the adamntium covering wolverine's bones is peculiar(called Adamantium Beta, that seem to have developed some peculiar characteristic due the molecular bonding with the regenerating skeleton of wolverine. Turn our it can regenerate...making it similar to Cyberknight cyber armor..and this BAFFLE ME EVEN MORE!!.
Anyway what and why wolverine can cut stuff, this is a discussion that is quite recurring in Marvel boards.
My headcanon would be that the metal bonding triggered a latent secondary mutation, that make his claws(and notice olny his claws) able to cut in way it would not be generally possible(would explain why thickness does not seem to be a problem, how his claws seem to affect supernatural creatures not normally vulnerable....

Spoiler:

Oh **** WOlverine is a natural C-Knight?!?!

)

[Nightmask]

Well, again, an arbitrarily sharp unbreakable blade can break molecular bonds rather trivially.

Well depend how dense it is. But agian is fictional metals and alloys we are talking here. True to be told, Vibranium, and Cap's shield are easy, but if Adamntium does not contain Vibranium it leave me confused about how it does ****** work...Seriously for Anime Samurai's is also easy, they channel energy or the sword is magical or both. But wolvering claws? (and the less we talk about the new Ultimate Wolverine the better....).

Either way being unbreakable doesn't and shouldn't make anything able to cut stuff just because it can't be broken. You don't cut through a bank vault just because you've a sharp knife that can't be broken, which is all Wolverine has in the end. Three built-in swords in each hand that at razor sharp, of which an unbreakable razor isn't going to slice up a vault either. Not unless you're propelling it at massive speeds or otherwise backing it with a lot of kinetic energy.

On Wolverin note, I was checking online for see if i was wrong or not. And while it does confirm what you said about Adamntium composition(and this leav eme baffled) it does say that the adamntium covering wolverine's bones is peculiar(called Adamantium Beta, that seem to have developed some peculiar characteristic due the molecular bonding with the regenerating skeleton of wolverine. Turn our it can regenerate...making it similar to Cyberknight cyber armor..and this BAFFLE ME EVEN MORE!!.
Anyway what and why wolverine can cut stuff, this is a discussion that is quite recurring in Marvel boards.
My headcanon would be that the metal bonding triggered a latent secondary mutation, that make his claws(and notice olny his claws) able to cut in way it would not be generally possible(would explain why thickness does not seem to be a problem, how his claws seem to affect supernatural creatures not normally vulnerable....

Spoiler:

Oh **** WOlverine is a natural C-Knight?!?!

)

Wolverine's claws get massive amounts of handwavium, along with his adamantium in general. Even for science-fiction the idea that Wolverine's healing factor would somehow take an alloy of steel and make it into a different kind of steel is absurd, and as I think I noted you've writers and artists doing 'rule of cool' over keeping it plausible. While that worked to a degree in the 60s and 70s Marvel had as part of its claim to fame NOT doing that and trying to keep things plausible so someone like Wolverine shouldn't be slicing through an I-Beam or driving his claws into a wall and using it as a way to climb but quality control at marvel has been declining ever since Shooter was driven out because the writers didn't like someone telling them what to do even when they were employees not employers or shareholders.

[TechnoGothic]

Wolverine used to be unable to slice through any material more durable than Steel, though he was said to to be able to cut even the green hulk's diamond hard skin/flesh. In the 90s Wolverine started to cut through thicker and thicker materials, even more durable materials like butter at times. Then again the 90s we also saw wolverine himself performing true superhuman feats of strength after he lost his adamantium due to magneto, and he started to further mutate into a feral being, which the adamantium was said to be keeping from devolving into. Wolverine then regained his mental control, reversed the outward physical feralness, but kept the enhanced strength into the low superhuman range. As we kept seeing him throwing motorcycles with ease many many yards. Then he ragained his adamantium through apocolypse and turned into "death". apocolypse was said to have increased his natural abilities even more, including strength back to the full feral strength he possessed.

I honestly have not been keeping up wolverine however since 2004-ish though.
I still see him performing feats of strength that require Extraordinary, Superhuman, or Supernatural strength very regularly in fact. We know in RIFTS, Extraordinary/Superhuman PS level translate into Rifts Supernatural PS. SO there we go. Wolverine has Rifts Supernatural PS at least around 20 or so. Hence why he can inflict MD damage with his claws.

[The Baron of chaos]

Wolverine's claws get massive amounts of handwavium, along with his adamantium in general.

Yes, but so does a lot of fictional characters, expecially when they set the "rules" to start with. With the worst, ironically(i hope i can use this word in this context), being the non-powered heroes, that happen to defy physics, logic and sense in any possible way by rule of cool or rule of badassery. Add to this differnet writers with their ideas about how powers work and you've quite a mess.

Marvel had as part of its claim to fame NOT doing that and trying to keep things plausible so someone like Wolverine shouldn't be slicing through an I-Beam or driving his claws into a wall and using it as a way to climb but quality control at marvel has been declining ever since Shooter was driven out because the writers didn't like someone telling them what to do even when they were employees not employers or shareholders.

Fact is withotu brule of cool, wolverine do not....live by his fame, so to speak and become less appelable. At some point you've two choice: you can just Handwave everything, follow the rule of cool(important in an EXTRMELY graphic medium as comics is) and ignore nitpicking fans, or you give Wolverine a different set of claws(energy claws, psychic claws or something else entirely). Now the second option is not always feasible. Fans do not like drastic changes of their characters. Sorry but is the truth. Rarely new powers or new interepretation of powers, stuck, as new fans prefer the classic(well a certain arbitrary idea of classic).
Sincerley with wolverine we are in a corner. What can you possibly do? Saying that yes he is one of the most lethal human killer, but he is not really good at fighting superhuman opponents? That his claws, without extra power, are pointless as weapon? That IS unacceptable. On every possible side you can possibly see the entire question.
So handwavium, or made up silly theories....LIKE THE ONES WE ARE POINTING HERE.
You are quite sure of your metallurgy and knowledge of molecular processes of a made up alloy, whose components are unknown, and its interactions after being merged with the bones of an immortal mutant that could regrow his head.
Sincerely I would have preferred the theory "the vibranium in the alloy interact wiht the healing factor to produce a a penetrating vibration" but since there is no vibranium in adamntium alloy....

[The Baron of chaos]

Updates.
Checked Wolverine's powers on Marvel site and Wikipedia. And well It gave some importnat notes.

The claws are naturally sharp and tougher than that of normal human bone structure, allowing Wolverine to cut through most types of flesh and natural materials.

Wolverine's healing factor also affects a number of his physical attributes by increasing them to superhuman levels. His stamina is sufficiently heightened to the point he can exert himself for numerous hours, even after exposure to powerful tranquilizers.[69] Wolverine's agility and reflexes are also enhanced to levels that are beyond the physical limits of the finest human athlete.[70][71] Due to his healing factor's constant regenerative qualities, he can push his muscles beyond the limits of the human body without injury.[72] This, coupled by the constant demand placed on his muscles by over one hundred pounds of adamantium,[73] grants him some degree of superhuman strength.

his claws are capable of cutting through almost any substance depending on its thickness and the amount of force he can exert

More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/universe/Wolverine_%2 ... z1fQ04E0xP

hmm seem that both Nightmask and Technogotic are right , and i'm wrong.
Woverine is likely strong enough to deliver megadamage with a power punch, and the adamntium claws add to this.
But i prefer the bio-field theory better

[DtMK]

This thread's gonna get locked down, isn't it? *sigh*

[FreelancerMar]

It doesn't work as SDC though, you have to arbitrarily reduce super technology to dinky crap by taking it through a rift?

Oh, sorry, your Glitter Boy which could defeat the entire army of a small nation is barely a match for a tank now, good luck!

I am in Complete agreement that this sort of thing is indeed completely lame. However it is still better than the nightbane setting. Nothing dead can arive at all which means the character arives with nothing more than his/her birthdaysuit.

[Nightmask]

It doesn't work as SDC though, you have to arbitrarily reduce super technology to dinky crap by taking it through a rift?

Oh, sorry, your Glitter Boy which could defeat the entire army of a small nation is barely a match for a tank now, good luck!

I am in Complete agreement that this sort of thing is indeed completely lame. However it is still better than the nightbane setting. Nothing dead can arive at all which means the character arives with nothing more than his/her birthdaysuit.

Not quite, at least some magic items will make it through just fine, as will I think cybernetic systems because they're linked to a living being. Oh and someone like the Biomancer can get through just fine in his Chitin bio-armor.

[The Baron of chaos]

It doesn't work as SDC though, you have to arbitrarily reduce super technology to dinky crap by taking it through a rift?

Oh, sorry, your Glitter Boy which could defeat the entire army of a small nation is barely a match for a tank now, good luck!

I am in Complete agreement that this sort of thing is indeed completely lame. However it is still better than the nightbane setting. Nothing dead can arive at all which means the character arives with nothing more than his/her birthdaysuit.

Not quite, at least some magic items will make it through just fine, as will I think cybernetic systems because they're linked to a living being. Oh and someone like the Biomancer can get through just fine in his Chitin bio-armor.

Don't forget the Anti-Monster, they vicious blend of bionics, magic and flesh can pass all right, as well as Lord Fromaline, oh yeah also the Holy Terrors from Wormwood. And Bio-Borgs. Of course. Because hey, Bio-Borgs!(you can't help to love those lovely bags of symbiotes, parasytes and biowizard recontructions)
Since I named bio-borgs is worth saying that also Splicers Biotics and host armor can pass, albeit given the low level of magic of Splicer earth is unlikely. This , one other side open interesting possibility. Since no machine can follow to NB dimension, could be seen, by Splicers, as a save heaven to run, in case.

[AlanGunhouse]

The closest thing the MDC that exists in HU is some alien materials that have a natural AR of about 17 and are not damaged unless specifically targeted.

[boxee]

It doesn't work as SDC though, you have to arbitrarily reduce super technology to dinky crap by taking it through a rift?

Oh, sorry, your Glitter Boy which could defeat the entire army of a small nation is barely a match for a tank now, good luck!

If your playing rifts use MDC if your playing heroes unlimited use SDC. If you mix you are playing rifts wether you think you are or not.

[Nightmask]

It doesn't work as SDC though, you have to arbitrarily reduce super technology to dinky crap by taking it through a rift?

Oh, sorry, your Glitter Boy which could defeat the entire army of a small nation is barely a match for a tank now, good luck!

If your playing rifts use MDC if your playing heroes unlimited use SDC. If you mix you are playing rifts wether you think you are or not.

Not really, alien super-science is a long-standing theme of the super-hero genre including what could be seen as someone with MDC gear showing up in an SDC setting. MDC does not equal Rifts, Rifts equals Rifts. Just as a mutant animal running around doesn't mean you're playing After the Bomb or TMNT, you're still playing Heroes Unlimited.

[AlanGunhouse]

Using an MDC item as a plot device is one thing, if they are in frequent use, it is something else.

[Nightmask]

Using an MDC item as a plot device is one thing, if they are in frequent use, it is something else.

It's just a more frequently used plot device. It might become a bit tired or cliche (such as Marvel taking Adamantium from the realm of special to being so frequent the US military is making fragmentation bombs using it as shrapnel) but still just another plot device.

[boxee]

You want something powerful, say it does x100 SDC damage, or adds +1d6 100 SDC.

[Nightmask]

You want something powerful, say it does x100 SDC damage, or adds +1d6 100 SDC.

Or just leave it as mega-damage and go from there.

[eliakon]

Of course there is also the line of thought that says "Mega Damage is not plausible and requires a special set of handwavium, ergo it does not exist in this univers" It could be that MD is a special sub set of the nuclear forces that bind matter and those rules only work in some places or that all MD is really magic or that MD is invisible pixeis altering reality for certain things and not others, it doesnt matter the cause, just the effect. Thus if you like the idea of MD/MDC in a game run with it, if not dont. My two cents

[FreelancerMar]

There is actually an MD weapon in N&SS. It is called the Vehicle stopper. Look it up. It is in the Core book.