So what is your deal-breaker?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

the ulimate deal breaker is no soda or beer for us over 21 and pizza that is a deal breaker for me sorry

Are you really that shallow?

As far as I'm concerned the GM doesn't provide the food and drink the GM gets bribed with food and drink especially if the GM is having the game at his own house.

the guy who house we played never had money or a job, mom's basement, and I'm the one who GMed the games. but we always had something to eat , and we BYOB it, start at 4pm with 2 cases of beer, 12 liter bottles of soda and load of food, if we were lucky we made it home atleast once for a shower and restock, if not people fell asleep, woke up run out for supplies and come back.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

ok i guess i'll bring my laptap have them sign , printed out contact and contacts on the laptop, then email then , bring my books and a paper shredder and after 2 hours of signing contracts , and reviews characters , we can play for 30 minutes before everybody has to go home. yup , where the good old days where we played to have fun

[Zer0 Kay]

the ulimate deal breaker is no soda or beer for us over 21 and pizza that is a deal breaker for me sorry

Are you really that shallow?

As far as I'm concerned the GM doesn't provide the food and drink the GM gets bribed with food and drink especially if the GM is having the game at his own house.

the guy who house we played never had money or a job, mom's basement, and I'm the one who GMed the games. but we always had something to eat , and we BYOB it, start at 4pm with 2 cases of beer, 12 liter bottles of soda and load of food, if we were lucky we made it home atleast once for a shower and restock, if not people fell asleep, woke up run out for supplies and come back.

That sounds awesome... for some reason I thought you said Free. Now that I reread... yeah it is kinda a deal breaker for me too. But only long enough to get some stuff. Other than that... players should still bribe the GM "for luck".

[Nightmask]

Participating in the game does not mean that someone's handing things over to you just because they are. Your players may be willing to just give up the rights to what they've created but I'm not one of those sorts.

If anything you're the strange one, you try and claim I don't see that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts and yet wish to deny the players their due credit and act as if it was really all you. You want all the credit if it sells and throw the players under the bus giving them nothing for that contribution, since I haven't heard you say anything about sharing any of that possible success with them. You want them to feed you ideas to profit off of but apparently give them nothing save perhaps a footnote somewhere.

For the whole to be greater than the sum of the parts all the parts work together sharing in good and bad, 'I'm the GM and everything's mine including what you contributed' isn't working together or sharing. The superhero wouldn't go trying to take what others created and claim it as their own like that either, if they did it would be depicted as a moment of moral weakness that the hero must overcome.

That's funny. I never said it was all me. That's why they get credited at the top of the sheet. But they aren't doing any of the labor, writing any of the backgrounds, or crafting any of the products. All they're doing is telling me what they want, I'm building the initial sheet 90 percent of the time, and then I write a background up more formally and we play some Champions.

This is what being part of a playtest group means. And believe me, the players get to share in the good and the bad, considering that most of them would owe me thousands of dollars between the food I pay for, the meals I cook for them, the adventures I bust my hump creating, and all that other stuff that constitutes running a gaming group. Which, I might add, is work. A LOT of of work. The world does not exist without it's players, so they get credited for creating the characters. If I actually charged full value for all the food and other stuff I just let my players eat and drink, I estimate they'd owe me buckets of money.

But they don't. Because we're friends. I ask for a donation. Most people donate when they can. They're good people. You, on the other hand, clearly need to find another gaming group, or have been screwed in the past by someone who threw you under the biggest bus in the world.

The milieu, the environment, and everything else that becomes a part of those characters the moment they enter that setting. That's why I'm entitled to do what I wish once they participate in a few sessions with that version of the character, because once they participate in that world, that character exists there, and removing it creates this magical thing called a continuity void.

That's why playing in any game is an oral contract of this sort, and why I always create characters that belong in the world that they're created for with no duplication allowed.

Respect your players, and they'll respect you. Playtesters always get a free copy, signed by me. When a player dies, and this has happened, an adventure or publication gets dedicated to them. Rest assured, my players will never be forgotten, as long as I outlive all of them and finish all my products before I die.

Respect others. They'll respect you.

Afraid I don't see why they'd be owing you money when you admit that they're playtesting for you, which is after all work. Work you enjoy but doesn't feel like work because of that is still work. Work helping out a friend is still work, there's just a bigger feeling of accomplishment when it's for a friend than an impersonal employer.

While I admit I have been screwed over by some former GM and friends that's not the foundation of my disagreement here. Your players may agree to hand over the rights to what they've created to you but gaming with no one forms an oral contract to sacrifice your creative rights to the GM. That's just your personal opinion that your players agree to. What you create belongs to you, showing it off to someone or letting them play with it doesn't hand those rights over to someone else. I create a character and GM in someone's game that character is still mine, his feeling like it belongs to him now because I played in his game simply doesn't matter. Especially when I make it clear I give up none of my rights of ownership over it.

Which is why I never post to the Marvel.com forums since buried in the fine print they note that any ideas posted there automatically become property of Marvel comics. I've no intentions of giving up my creations to someone else.

[Zer0 Kay]

ok i guess i'll bring my laptap have them sign , printed out contact and contacts on the laptop, then email then , bring my books and a paper shredder and after 2 hours of signing contracts , and reviews characters , we can play for 30 minutes before everybody has to go home. yup , where the good old days where we played to have fun

Dang MVP, touchy? Why can't you just skip the trashing of their character sheet? Besides first night with a new game group is all about no game anyway, ya gotta make the characters. I actually like taking each person aside as they finish to get them to a common point.

[Nightmask]

ok i guess i'll bring my laptap have them sign , printed out contact and contacts on the laptop, then email then , bring my books and a paper shredder and after 2 hours of signing contracts , and reviews characters , we can play for 30 minutes before everybody has to go home. yup , where the good old days where we played to have fun

Lost in the chaos as the 'it's all about me' mindset has taken over, with the mistaken belief that one can't have fun without denying someone else their fun. I found out years after the fact that a realtime mutiplayer RP site I enjoyed but had become quite miserable that much of the misery came from admins and others who were cutthroat and felt my having fun was somehow cutting into their fun. They'd subtly harass people who RPed with me and were interfering with my RP all the time. A friend of one of them even told me once how the guy would sit around gloating over his latest 'victory' screwover he'd perpetrated.

[Nightmask]

ok i guess i'll bring my laptap have them sign , printed out contact and contacts on the laptop, then email then , bring my books and a paper shredder and after 2 hours of signing contracts , and reviews characters , we can play for 30 minutes before everybody has to go home. yup , where the good old days where we played to have fun

Dang MVP, touchy? Why can't you just skip the trashing of their character sheet? Besides first night with a new game group is all about no game anyway, ya gotta make the characters. I actually like taking each person aside as they finish to get them to a common point.

I think he was being sarcastic in regards to the argument over who owns the PC the player created, with all that arguing and conflict over that instead of everyone just sitting down and having fun without anyone thinking of getting over on anyone else.

[Balabanto]

Participating in the game does not mean that someone's handing things over to you just because they are. Your players may be willing to just give up the rights to what they've created but I'm not one of those sorts.

If anything you're the strange one, you try and claim I don't see that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts and yet wish to deny the players their due credit and act as if it was really all you. You want all the credit if it sells and throw the players under the bus giving them nothing for that contribution, since I haven't heard you say anything about sharing any of that possible success with them. You want them to feed you ideas to profit off of but apparently give them nothing save perhaps a footnote somewhere.

For the whole to be greater than the sum of the parts all the parts work together sharing in good and bad, 'I'm the GM and everything's mine including what you contributed' isn't working together or sharing. The superhero wouldn't go trying to take what others created and claim it as their own like that either, if they did it would be depicted as a moment of moral weakness that the hero must overcome.

That's funny. I never said it was all me. That's why they get credited at the top of the sheet. But they aren't doing any of the labor, writing any of the backgrounds, or crafting any of the products. All they're doing is telling me what they want, I'm building the initial sheet 90 percent of the time, and then I write a background up more formally and we play some Champions.

This is what being part of a playtest group means. And believe me, the players get to share in the good and the bad, considering that most of them would owe me thousands of dollars between the food I pay for, the meals I cook for them, the adventures I bust my hump creating, and all that other stuff that constitutes running a gaming group. Which, I might add, is work. A LOT of of work. The world does not exist without it's players, so they get credited for creating the characters. If I actually charged full value for all the food and other stuff I just let my players eat and drink, I estimate they'd owe me buckets of money.

But they don't. Because we're friends. I ask for a donation. Most people donate when they can. They're good people. You, on the other hand, clearly need to find another gaming group, or have been screwed in the past by someone who threw you under the biggest bus in the world.

The milieu, the environment, and everything else that becomes a part of those characters the moment they enter that setting. That's why I'm entitled to do what I wish once they participate in a few sessions with that version of the character, because once they participate in that world, that character exists there, and removing it creates this magical thing called a continuity void.

That's why playing in any game is an oral contract of this sort, and why I always create characters that belong in the world that they're created for with no duplication allowed.

Respect your players, and they'll respect you. Playtesters always get a free copy, signed by me. When a player dies, and this has happened, an adventure or publication gets dedicated to them. Rest assured, my players will never be forgotten, as long as I outlive all of them and finish all my products before I die.

Respect others. They'll respect you.

Afraid I don't see why they'd be owing you money when you admit that they're playtesting for you, which is after all work. Work you enjoy but doesn't feel like work because of that is still work. Work helping out a friend is still work, there's just a bigger feeling of accomplishment when it's for a friend than an impersonal employer.

While I admit I have been screwed over by some former GM and friends that's not the foundation of my disagreement here. Your players may agree to hand over the rights to what they've created to you but gaming with no one forms an oral contract to sacrifice your creative rights to the GM. That's just your personal opinion that your players agree to. What you create belongs to you, showing it off to someone or letting them play with it doesn't hand those rights over to someone else. I create a character and GM in someone's game that character is still mine, his feeling like it belongs to him now because I played in his game simply doesn't matter. Especially when I make it clear I give up none of my rights of ownership over it.

Which is why I never post to the Marvel.com forums since buried in the fine print they note that any ideas posted there automatically become property of Marvel comics. I've no intentions of giving up my creations to someone else.

That must make it hard to find gaming groups of equals. Let me tell you, the one thing that unites all of my players is that they're supportive of this stuff. They understand that their characters may find it into print one day. That's just how Hero gamers are. Disputes over rights to characters have nearly destroyed Hero freelancers and the whole game system twice. No one wants to see it happen again. Pretty much, Hero players are good dudes when it comes to this stuff.

[Nightmask]

That must make it hard to find gaming groups of equals. Let me tell you, the one thing that unites all of my players is that they're supportive of this stuff. They understand that their characters may find it into print one day. That's just how Hero gamers are. Disputes over rights to characters have nearly destroyed Hero freelancers and the whole game system twice. No one wants to see it happen again. Pretty much, Hero players are good dudes when it comes to this stuff.

Well the one (and first) online RPG I'd gotten into which was using the Marvel Super Heroes RPG from the 80s was superb, everyone got along fabulously. GM was awesome, then he had to abruptly end it after the first chapter due to medical issues (brain tumor). When he came back a year later to try again he advanced the timeline and started with new players. I'd been slated for joining when he opened the higher-powered section, but his trusted 'right hand man' had developed a bitter hatred for everyone who remained on the website dedicated to the game and 'lost' my e-mails to the GM and painted me as having blown him off. The GM wouldn't even respond to me when I tried E-mailing and IMing him. Mind you that from someone who'd been quite friendly prior to that. Three other active games with three different GM abruptly crashed and burned at the same time, and two recent attempts weren't any better. So yes finding a decent group to relax with like that has proven difficult.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

ok i guess i'll bring my laptap have them sign , printed out contact and contacts on the laptop, then email then , bring my books and a paper shredder and after 2 hours of signing contracts , and reviews characters , we can play for 30 minutes before everybody has to go home. yup , where the good old days where we played to have fun

Lost in the chaos as the 'it's all about me' mindset has taken over, with the mistaken belief that one can't have fun without denying someone else their fun. I found out years after the fact that a realtime mutiplayer RP site I enjoyed but had become quite miserable that much of the misery came from admins and others who were cutthroat and felt my having fun was somehow cutting into their fun. They'd subtly harass people who RPed with me and were interfering with my RP all the time. A friend of one of them even told me once how the guy would sit around gloating over his latest 'victory' screwover he'd perpetrated.

yeah, i run into a couple of people like that , so i know the type

[johnkretzer]

Afraid I don't see why they'd be owing you money when you admit that they're playtesting for you, which is after all work. Work you enjoy but doesn't feel like work because of that is still work. Work helping out a friend is still work, there's just a bigger feeling of accomplishment when it's for a friend than an impersonal employer.

While I admit I have been screwed over by some former GM and friends that's not the foundation of my disagreement here. Your players may agree to hand over the rights to what they've created to you but gaming with no one forms an oral contract to sacrifice your creative rights to the GM. That's just your personal opinion that your players agree to. What you create belongs to you, showing it off to someone or letting them play with it doesn't hand those rights over to someone else. I create a character and GM in someone's game that character is still mine, his feeling like it belongs to him now because I played in his game simply doesn't matter. Especially when I make it clear I give up none of my rights of ownership over it.

Which is why I never post to the Marvel.com forums since buried in the fine print they note that any ideas posted there automatically become property of Marvel comics. I've no intentions of giving up my creations to someone else.

Actualy I think you have...atleast I hope so...misunderstood what Balabanto is saying. As one of his players....this rule of any character you play might be published by him as copyrighted by him....only applies for the games to his Champions game, not in his Rifts game or FR game...etc. Just the stuff he gets published for.

I have no problem with it because he give us credits for it. And he is upfront about it. Also if I ever get anything published before he does I'll give him full permission to use it if possible. I am nice that way.

It is sorta like creating a character and publishing it in a shared world...the author does loose certain right to it because he does not own the rights to the world. Heck if you get published unless you are a giant name in the industry you don't keep the rights to the character.

Also most sites have a clause of what you put on there becomes there property...just in case if you did not realize it.

[Nightmask]

Actualy I think you have...atleast I hope so...misunderstood what Balabanto is saying. As one of his players....this rule of any character you play might be published by him as copyrighted by him....only applies for the games to his Champions game, not in his Rifts game or FR game...etc. Just the stuff he gets published for.

I have no problem with it because he give us credits for it. And he is upfront about it. Also if I ever get anything published before he does I'll give him full permission to use it if possible. I am nice that way.

It is sorta like creating a character and publishing it in a shared world...the author does loose certain right to it because he does not own the rights to the world. Heck if you get published unless you are a giant name in the industry you don't keep the rights to the character.

Also most sites have a clause of what you put on there becomes there property...just in case if you did not realize it.

classicmarvelforever.com actually says the opposite, as have most of the places I've been on. They clearly note that you retain ownership of your creations that you post.

[johnkretzer]

Actualy I think you have...atleast I hope so...misunderstood what Balabanto is saying. As one of his players....this rule of any character you play might be published by him as copyrighted by him....only applies for the games to his Champions game, not in his Rifts game or FR game...etc. Just the stuff he gets published for.

I have no problem with it because he give us credits for it. And he is upfront about it. Also if I ever get anything published before he does I'll give him full permission to use it if possible. I am nice that way.

It is sorta like creating a character and publishing it in a shared world...the author does loose certain right to it because he does not own the rights to the world. Heck if you get published unless you are a giant name in the industry you don't keep the rights to the character.

Also most sites have a clause of what you put on there becomes there property...just in case if you did not realize it.

classicmarvelforever.com actually says the opposite, as have most of the places I've been on. They clearly note that you retain ownership of your creations that you post.

Did not say any existed but pointed out that they are out there and alot of time it is buried.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

ok i guess i'll bring my laptap have them sign , printed out contact and contacts on the laptop, then email then , bring my books and a paper shredder and after 2 hours of signing contracts , and reviews characters , we can play for 30 minutes before everybody has to go home. yup , where the good old days where we played to have fun

Dang MVP, touchy? Why can't you just skip the trashing of their character sheet? Besides first night with a new game group is all about no game anyway, ya gotta make the characters. I actually like taking each person aside as they finish to get them to a common point.

I think he was being sarcastic in regards to the argument over who owns the PC the player created, with all that arguing and conflict over that instead of everyone just sitting down and having fun without anyone thinking of getting over on anyone else.

yes because i going to steal your character and make millions off of it muhahahahahaah, because everybody wants to hear and read about jojo the leopard mutant midget for mars

[Damian Magecraft]

Can't really see why any GM would think someone's character belonged to him rather than the player that created it (I imagine copyright law would even be on the player's side), or that he had a right to take the sheet and destroy it if the character was killed in a game. Really not a right any GM has taking someone else's property to destroy like that. Definitely wouldn't let any GM do that to my characters.

Copyright law does not favor the player. The GM is the world's creator, and as long as that GM publishes first, the player has to eat it.

Sorry but the GM only retains copyright over what he created, NOT what someone else created. This can cause serious problems for collaborative writers for example if one pulls out as the portion contributed by the other person remains their intellectual property and the one must remove or change sufficiently the material supplied by the other to be able to publish the work without owing the other royalties or have them block the publication completely. So he can't go 'yeah I'm going to take your character you played it in my game so it belongs to me!', at least he can't do that and be in the right. He may hope that the player doesn't fight him over it and knuckle under but he's definitely guilty of theft of intellectual property at that point.

Wrong again. You play in my game, that's an oral contract between you and me, which any court in the US will honor. You participated in a game run by me, that character becomes a part of that world, I publish first, you're done. Those are the rules. I don't retain the rights to your character sheet, but as far as that character existing in my gameworld, I sure as hell do. I can rewrite, redesign, and do whatever I like after you leave. You affected fellow players with your actions. Now they have to live with your BS if you have a hissy fit and leave? That's ridiculous. Most players genuinely like it when you put their name at the top of the sheet. Throw me under the bus, and I'll bury you under a bleepstorm of crap, though.

Wrong. In most States an oral contract is not a binding contract. Gone are the days of the hand shake and a nod agreements. No documentation clearly delineating what belongs to who... and the courts say no such agreement exists.

[Chronicle]

well dang, it is our gaming tradition that the dead PC's Character sheet is either handed to the GM or copied and handed to the GM. Works well and goes into a villian database we build using sources from old PC's.

A few times i ran into a character similar to one i used to play, and now regret some of the loopholes i used to make certain characters



Edit: As far as deal breakers.

Rules laywering (we have indoctrinated a story trumps rules motto as long as it doesn't totally become abused and turns things into a railroad.)

In game Knowledge. never a good thing ("hey lets go visit Archie" or "i wonder if Splynn is up the usual crap that i never got to run into"

Another Deal Breaker is when a player uses his PC as an NPC to get the players to collect a few powerfule items, which would then translate into him having these in my game Arguments abotu this still go on to this day as i state to him that there is no time for the character to get this item from one episode to the next without a lul in the current line of story.

[wyrmraker]

I have a couple of binders full of dead or no long played characters. I use them as my own resource for idea recycling and villains.
And I can honestly say that if a GM insisted that I hand over my character sheet after it's death, I would refuse. If pressed on the subject, I would find a different group.

[Balabanto]

The funniest thing actually was when a player who was leaving the game said "Forget this! I'm going to become a villain."

Well, that was exactly what happened. My fellow players were shocked and I was like "The player's wishes were carried out. We respect the players around here."

Granted, he had armor with tentacles that empowered his latent psychic abilities, so instead of Psicord, the hero, he became The Krakenite, Master of Robot Squids, but that scenario was hard, and everyone had a good time.

By the way, The Krakenite is still around.

[Zer0 Kay]

ok i guess i'll bring my laptap have them sign , printed out contact and contacts on the laptop, then email then , bring my books and a paper shredder and after 2 hours of signing contracts , and reviews characters , we can play for 30 minutes before everybody has to go home. yup , where the good old days where we played to have fun

Dang MVP, touchy? Why can't you just skip the trashing of their character sheet? Besides first night with a new game group is all about no game anyway, ya gotta make the characters. I actually like taking each person aside as they finish to get them to a common point.

I think he was being sarcastic in regards to the argument over who owns the PC the player created, with all that arguing and conflict over that instead of everyone just sitting down and having fun without anyone thinking of getting over on anyone else.

yes because i going to steal your character and make millions off of it muhahahahahaah, because everybody wants to hear and read about jojo the leopard mutant midget for mars

What's this sarcasm, you speak of? I knew it MVP I could have sworn you said "All your character are belong to us." BTW, Jojo is a Maniac Mutant Monkey from Mars... that way it is worth 10 extra points in Macho Women with Guns.

[Athos]

I have a couple of binders full of dead or no long played characters. I use them as my own resource for idea recycling and villains.
And I can honestly say that if a GM insisted that I hand over my character sheet after it's death, I would refuse. If pressed on the subject, I would find a different group.

I keep all my characters, dead and alive as well...

You are nicer than me, if a GM tried to grab my character sheet, he would end up with a kiwi enema; needless to say, we would not be playing together after that.

[Failgoat]

sort of off topic but...
as a gm, my deal breaker is like when a sports team starts fouling everytime they can, knowing that the refs arent going to make every call.
in a similar fashion, certain individuals i play with will start pushing for a, b, c and d. i say no to it all because its all usually ridiculous, but keeps pushing it and trying to debate while im trying to run the campaign, wearing me down little by little in the hopes that i'll just give in and give them whatever they want. this is usually the end of the campaign as its not worth the amount of work i put in to be treated so callously.
also, when all my npc's, backstories, cool unique place with unique magic A, etc etc, become nothing more than the next target, the next item to be obtained, the next city to subjugate.
i remember once making an awesome froggy npc, who sat around stoned out of his mind all the time because he had a super magical pipe that could transport you to a place where you had purpose, or fate or however you want to view it, but whoever did the toking was so baked they couldnt get up. one of my players killed the frog as he was hiding under a carriage during an assault on some small town. he took the pipe. even tho to use the thing made your character utterly useless, it was cool and shiny and had to have it and i am /yawnfest bye guys bed time never play again.

failgoat

[Mech-Viper Prime]

ok i guess i'll bring my laptap have them sign , printed out contact and contacts on the laptop, then email then , bring my books and a paper shredder and after 2 hours of signing contracts , and reviews characters , we can play for 30 minutes before everybody has to go home. yup , where the good old days where we played to have fun

Dang MVP, touchy? Why can't you just skip the trashing of their character sheet? Besides first night with a new game group is all about no game anyway, ya gotta make the characters. I actually like taking each person aside as they finish to get them to a common point.

I think he was being sarcastic in regards to the argument over who owns the PC the player created, with all that arguing and conflict over that instead of everyone just sitting down and having fun without anyone thinking of getting over on anyone else.

yes because i going to steal your character and make millions off of it muhahahahahaah, because everybody wants to hear and read about jojo the leopard mutant midget for mars

What's this sarcasm, you speak of? I knew it MVP I could have sworn you said "All your character are belong to us." BTW, Jojo is a Maniac Mutant Monkey from Mars... that way it is worth 10 extra points in Macho Women with Guns.

what?? you have my characters, seems to misplace alot of them hope i didnt shred them

[johnkretzer]

I know in my games , its one of my house rules, dead characters are forfeited to the GM automatic, no open to debate , and filed away for future use and fine tuning, as a npc, or returned to the player after a later date.

I am just curious why you have that house rule?

Personaly if a character he is dead....at best I might ask for a copy of the sheet...for sinster reasons. But I just don't take it.

I don't see how this houserule could have developed...so I am not saying it is a bad idea...just wondering what happened that triggered it.

after see the exact same character, with everything the exact same skills,dispositon and same stats on the same character sheet as the character just died and with the same level of the character that died. i know GM who would collect character sheets after the adventure was done for the nite, my area had a alot of gamers at one time , so a dead character would always appearing someone esle game so me and my player sat down and come up with house rules which including collecting dead characters, and putting in nice bright highlighter DEAD, GMs always have a way running into each other at game stores, and talking about players and what adventures we had going on.

That is very interesting in how that developed.

Though I have a question...what does it matter if a player recycles a character in a different game? Under a different GM? Am I missing sonething here.

Also sure I would not mind handing a dead character over to a GM...though I often just rip them up and put them in garbage when a character dies(would you have a problem with that as a alternative).

Also if when I do recycle a character( and I have only does this once becauase the campaign I was playing the character ended after a few session later) the stats are the least important thing to recycle to me...so I would not have a problem with this house rule. As long as it is not a power trip by the GM to rub my face in a PC's death.

[Nightmask]

That is very interesting in how that developed.

Though I have a question...what does it matter if a player recycles a character in a different game? Under a different GM? Am I missing sonething here.

Also sure I would not mind handing a dead character over to a GM...though I often just rip them up and put them in garbage when a character dies(would you have a problem with that as a alternative).

Also if when I do recycle a character( and I have only does this once becauase the campaign I was playing the character ended after a few session later) the stats are the least important thing to recycle to me...so I would not have a problem with this house rule. As long as it is not a power trip by the GM to rub my face in a PC's death.

I'm not sure why a GM would care if you used the same character in someone else's game either. If it wasn't one the GM himself created he doesn't have much reason to complain about it being seen in another game. I've run versions of Nightmask and a few other characters in a variety of games without problems. He starts within the creation rules and game system set-up the GM is using and goes from there.

[Vrykolas2k]

For me it's simple: If I'm having fun, then I play. If I'm not having fun, then I don't. The GM's #1 job is for the players to have fun (above the rules or anything). I usually GM Rifts but really wanted to play so I joined a group as a PC about 6 months ago. I liked the other players and the GM was great at story telling but his #1 job was that he (the GM) have fun and everything else took a backseat. As you can probably imagine that group didn't last long.

Definitely the fun factor is the determining factor on it all. I'd had my first online RP with someone who was an astounding GM, really great but then had to cancel the game abruptly (actually developed a brain tumor if memory serves). When he came back a year later he basically scrapped that game and skipped forward and started looking for new players but I never got in thanks to someone he had dealing with submissions who screwed me over (never even spoke with me about things). Sadly from what I heard his new game was horribly angsty and like Dragonlance on steroids for the misery (the entire earth for example was suffering under an eternal winter) so probably not a big loss. Still seems like every character in the prior game was considered killed except mine (he mysteriously vanished during the final battle) and the GM's buddy who wrote it that his character took up Thor's hammer and beat the big bad. Yes, the guy really Mary Sue'd his successes in the interim story.

So you've had bad experiences with Gene as well?

[Nightmask]

For me it's simple: If I'm having fun, then I play. If I'm not having fun, then I don't. The GM's #1 job is for the players to have fun (above the rules or anything). I usually GM Rifts but really wanted to play so I joined a group as a PC about 6 months ago. I liked the other players and the GM was great at story telling but his #1 job was that he (the GM) have fun and everything else took a backseat. As you can probably imagine that group didn't last long.

Definitely the fun factor is the determining factor on it all. I'd had my first online RP with someone who was an astounding GM, really great but then had to cancel the game abruptly (actually developed a brain tumor if memory serves). When he came back a year later he basically scrapped that game and skipped forward and started looking for new players but I never got in thanks to someone he had dealing with submissions who screwed me over (never even spoke with me about things). Sadly from what I heard his new game was horribly angsty and like Dragonlance on steroids for the misery (the entire earth for example was suffering under an eternal winter) so probably not a big loss. Still seems like every character in the prior game was considered killed except mine (he mysteriously vanished during the final battle) and the GM's buddy who wrote it that his character took up Thor's hammer and beat the big bad. Yes, the guy really Mary Sue'd his successes in the interim story.

So you've had bad experiences with Gene as well?

That was actually Rook's game, not Gene's. TLD wrote himself up since he was the only survivor as having won the day taking up Thor's hammer to beat the villain (although my character Perceptor got to be 'unknown fate' so can consider him to have simply escaped into the Multiverse and survived).

Gene's I just couldn't get into after seeing how he intentionally curb-stomped Dead_Sidekick's character (faced by an orc at least 3 levels higher, greater level of weapon specialization, making multiple attacks per round AND DS's character was considered to have always lost initiative). Sure he was being an @$$ in character but still it was a rigged to ensure his death. Seeing how he dealt with DS I couldn't maintain the trust that he wouldn't decide at some point to do the same to me.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I know in my games , its one of my house rules, dead characters are forfeited to the GM automatic, no open to debate , and filed away for future use and fine tuning, as a npc, or returned to the player after a later date.

I am just curious why you have that house rule?

Personaly if a character he is dead....at best I might ask for a copy of the sheet...for sinster reasons. But I just don't take it.

I don't see how this houserule could have developed...so I am not saying it is a bad idea...just wondering what happened that triggered it.

after see the exact same character, with everything the exact same skills,dispositon and same stats on the same character sheet as the character just died and with the same level of the character that died. i know GM who would collect character sheets after the adventure was done for the nite, my area had a alot of gamers at one time , so a dead character would always appearing someone esle game so me and my player sat down and come up with house rules which including collecting dead characters, and putting in nice bright highlighter DEAD, GMs always have a way running into each other at game stores, and talking about players and what adventures we had going on.

That is very interesting in how that developed.

Though I have a question...what does it matter if a player recycles a character in a different game? Under a different GM? Am I missing sonething here.

Also sure I would not mind handing a dead character over to a GM...though I often just rip them up and put them in garbage when a character dies(would you have a problem with that as a alternative).

Also if when I do recycle a character( and I have only does this once becauase the campaign I was playing the character ended after a few session later) the stats are the least important thing to recycle to me...so I would not have a problem with this house rule. As long as it is not a power trip by the GM to rub my face in a PC's death.

i know i saw a couple of characters i killed before show back up at my table, on differance with he was higher level, then when he was put into the grave. i rarely kill character unless it to father the adventure, even then nothing even said they would still dead

[Vrykolas2k]

For me it's simple: If I'm having fun, then I play. If I'm not having fun, then I don't. The GM's #1 job is for the players to have fun (above the rules or anything). I usually GM Rifts but really wanted to play so I joined a group as a PC about 6 months ago. I liked the other players and the GM was great at story telling but his #1 job was that he (the GM) have fun and everything else took a backseat. As you can probably imagine that group didn't last long.

Definitely the fun factor is the determining factor on it all. I'd had my first online RP with someone who was an astounding GM, really great but then had to cancel the game abruptly (actually developed a brain tumor if memory serves). When he came back a year later he basically scrapped that game and skipped forward and started looking for new players but I never got in thanks to someone he had dealing with submissions who screwed me over (never even spoke with me about things). Sadly from what I heard his new game was horribly angsty and like Dragonlance on steroids for the misery (the entire earth for example was suffering under an eternal winter) so probably not a big loss. Still seems like every character in the prior game was considered killed except mine (he mysteriously vanished during the final battle) and the GM's buddy who wrote it that his character took up Thor's hammer and beat the big bad. Yes, the guy really Mary Sue'd his successes in the interim story.

So you've had bad experiences with Gene as well?

That was actually Rook's game, not Gene's. TLD wrote himself up since he was the only survivor as having won the day taking up Thor's hammer to beat the villain (although my character Perceptor got to be 'unknown fate' so can consider him to have simply escaped into the Multiverse and survived).

Gene's I just couldn't get into after seeing how he intentionally curb-stomped Dead_Sidekick's character (faced by an orc at least 3 levels higher, greater level of weapon specialization, making multiple attacks per round AND DS's character was considered to have always lost initiative). Sure he was being an @$$ in character but still it was a rigged to ensure his death. Seeing how he dealt with DS I couldn't maintain the trust that he wouldn't decide at some point to do the same to me.

It just sort of sounded like something he pulled on me when he was "assistant gm"; then when he played in my game he munchkinned the hell out of his character.
It's due to him that in online games there are 3 powers I don't allow any more, and one in table-top.
It's also due to him that I tend to put caps on beginning-level characters' ranks...

Anyway, lots of things make me walk.
Some have already been mentioned.
But it's usually due to favouritism, someone being disgusting, and the like.

[Nightmask]

That was actually Rook's game, not Gene's. TLD wrote himself up since he was the only survivor as having won the day taking up Thor's hammer to beat the villain (although my character Perceptor got to be 'unknown fate' so can consider him to have simply escaped into the Multiverse and survived).

Gene's I just couldn't get into after seeing how he intentionally curb-stomped Dead_Sidekick's character (faced by an orc at least 3 levels higher, greater level of weapon specialization, making multiple attacks per round AND DS's character was considered to have always lost initiative). Sure he was being an @$$ in character but still it was a rigged to ensure his death. Seeing how he dealt with DS I couldn't maintain the trust that he wouldn't decide at some point to do the same to me.

It just sort of sounded like something he pulled on me when he was "assistant gm"; then when he played in my game he munchkinned the hell out of his character.
It's due to him that in online games there are 3 powers I don't allow any more, and one in table-top.
It's also due to him that I tend to put caps on beginning-level characters' ranks...

Anyway, lots of things make me walk.
Some have already been mentioned.
But it's usually due to favouritism, someone being disgusting, and the like.

Gene's always confused me, he tosses that munchkin label around so freely (and as you know has tossed it my way many times) and yet as you note he's incredibly munchkin with his characters. Since it's used in a most derogatory fashion I of course take offense at it, since I'm a 'live and let live' kind of person and even if someone's really overpowered and tricked out as long as everyone can have fun I don't really care. But being seriously overpowered and complaining that I'm the one being munchkin is just too much.

I've seen a few more deal-breakers than I realized I had myself since starting this thread. Favoritism will get to me if I'm being slighted to top it off. Favoritism in and of itself doesn't bother me as long as I'm not being worked over on top of that. I can tolerate some levels of disgusting (I wasn't happy seeing Rook turned Roberto from the X-men into a ghetto talking profanity spewing sort apparently just for his being black when his family background is wealthy and he was brought up in elite ivy league schools), haven't seen things get to the level I'd walk yet thank God.

[Shawn Merrow]

That is very interesting in how that developed.

Though I have a question...what does it matter if a player recycles a character in a different game? Under a different GM? Am I missing sonething here.

Also sure I would not mind handing a dead character over to a GM...though I often just rip them up and put them in garbage when a character dies(would you have a problem with that as a alternative).

Also if when I do recycle a character( and I have only does this once becauase the campaign I was playing the character ended after a few session later) the stats are the least important thing to recycle to me...so I would not have a problem with this house rule. As long as it is not a power trip by the GM to rub my face in a PC's death.

I'm not sure why a GM would care if you used the same character in someone else's game either. If it wasn't one the GM himself created he doesn't have much reason to complain about it being seen in another game. I've run versions of Nightmask and a few other characters in a variety of games without problems. He starts within the creation rules and game system set-up the GM is using and goes from there.

I don't get this one either. I would not care if a player was running the same character in 20 other games. I would just tell him those games have no effect on our groups games.

[Balabanto]

That is very interesting in how that developed.

Though I have a question...what does it matter if a player recycles a character in a different game? Under a different GM? Am I missing sonething here.

Also sure I would not mind handing a dead character over to a GM...though I often just rip them up and put them in garbage when a character dies(would you have a problem with that as a alternative).

Also if when I do recycle a character( and I have only does this once becauase the campaign I was playing the character ended after a few session later) the stats are the least important thing to recycle to me...so I would not have a problem with this house rule. As long as it is not a power trip by the GM to rub my face in a PC's death.

I'm not sure why a GM would care if you used the same character in someone else's game either. If it wasn't one the GM himself created he doesn't have much reason to complain about it being seen in another game. I've run versions of Nightmask and a few other characters in a variety of games without problems. He starts within the creation rules and game system set-up the GM is using and goes from there.

Because then I can be sued by someone I've never met and don't know. See, that's the problem. If I have a friend who decides not to be my friend anymore because they're strung out, something happens in the game they don't like, or is completely crazy, and they go and play that character in a different game, it's a problem. Because that guy can want to publish his stuff too.

Second of all, I've seen FIRSTHAND the results of this. The player falsely remembered history that had happened in someone else's game and tried to spinally fuse it to my own, with DISASTROUS results. After twenty minutes of arguing, it finally came down to "No, that happened in someone else's game."

Never again.

[Illendaver]

That is very interesting in how that developed.

Though I have a question...what does it matter if a player recycles a character in a different game? Under a different GM? Am I missing sonething here.

Also sure I would not mind handing a dead character over to a GM...though I often just rip them up and put them in garbage when a character dies(would you have a problem with that as a alternative).

Also if when I do recycle a character( and I have only does this once becauase the campaign I was playing the character ended after a few session later) the stats are the least important thing to recycle to me...so I would not have a problem with this house rule. As long as it is not a power trip by the GM to rub my face in a PC's death.

I'm not sure why a GM would care if you used the same character in someone else's game either. If it wasn't one the GM himself created he doesn't have much reason to complain about it being seen in another game. I've run versions of Nightmask and a few other characters in a variety of games without problems. He starts within the creation rules and game system set-up the GM is using and goes from there.

Because then I can be sued by someone I've never met and don't know. See, that's the problem. If I have a friend who decides not to be my friend anymore because they're strung out, something happens in the game they don't like, or is completely crazy, and they go and play that character in a different game, it's a problem. Because that guy can want to publish his stuff too.

Second of all, I've seen FIRSTHAND the results of this. The player falsely remembered history that had happened in someone else's game and tried to spinally fuse it to my own, with DISASTROUS results. After twenty minutes of arguing, it finally came down to "No, that happened in someone else's game."

Never again.

OK! there is about 2 whole pages of this stuff that is only minorly on topic with the thread, If you guys want to fight the legalitys of this or that, thats what we have PM for. I don't believe that there are that many GM's out to publish a book about their games that trying to play a char in a game is going to become a problem. I am guessing that Balabanto has had a problem with this, and I am sorry for your troubles. I have noted that the big argument is about players taking their chars and "crossing over" to a diffrent game. Personally I just say no to PC's crossing over from a diffrent campaign, there is absolutely nothing wrong with coming up with a new idea for a char and rolling it up, I will wait a while for players to do so.
Anyway, can we please put this argument to rest and get back to what the topic is actually about? I was interested to hear other peoples opinions.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

My deal breaker is rampant and favoritized munchkinism. i.e. favorites get to be munchkin, no one else does.

Vast and sweeping house rules that have no support in the game, make no sense, and aren't informed to the group.

Constant interruptions of both the game and myself. I can tolerate a bit of being interrupted, but it's highly disrespectful.

On that note, lack of respect. For myself, for the gm by players, between other players ect.

Sometimes i walk because i just dislike the people in game. rare.

Sometimes i walk because of the setting. I just dont like some settings. Currently playing in one such setting. Like everything but the lack of freedom to do what I want. its so much fun that the occasional infraction is tolerated. It isnt such a gross restriction that i cant stand it.

Other players trying to control my characters actions, or someone telling me what my character would or would not do.

Munchkins. People who show blatant disregard for setting, rules, the other players fun, the gm's setting, and generally show a lack of respect towards all these things. I walk on munchkins. Always. I refuse to interact with them.

Munchkin gm's. If it seems like the setting is trying to kill us, and I didn't sign up for survival horror, I walk. Note I said setting. If the world itself has it out for me, and its by all rights shouldn't, I'm done. If the enemies are deliberately overpowered and give a sense of despair towards beating them, I can't enjoy the fight. I'm not going to bother dreading every encounter if I didn't decide to join a setting where I should.

Stupidity. I am intolerant at best in all situations where it rears its ugly head.

Unpleasant surroundings. If I'm not comfortable at the game location, I leave.

Arbitrary restrictions. A simple and unreasonable restriction to my freedom. deciding I absolutely can't do something by any means, for no legitimate reason, just because, and when there is no game/setting reason why I can't. Preventing me from roleplaying my character as I choose. Preventing me from having fun essentially, especially harmless fun.

[Nightmask]

OK! there is about 2 whole pages of this stuff that is only minorly on topic with the thread, If you guys want to fight the legalitys of this or that, thats what we have PM for. I don't believe that there are that many GM's out to publish a book about their games that trying to play a char in a game is going to become a problem. I am guessing that Balabanto has had a problem with this, and I am sorry for your troubles. I have noted that the big argument is about players taking their chars and "crossing over" to a diffrent game. Personally I just say no to PC's crossing over from a diffrent campaign, there is absolutely nothing wrong with coming up with a new idea for a char and rolling it up, I will wait a while for players to do so.
Anyway, can we please put this argument to rest and get back to what the topic is actually about? I was interested to hear other peoples opinions.

So what are your deal-breakers then? What ones have been touched on and what ones haven't and why do they break the deal for you as a GM or as a player? If you've noted yours already a recap is fine, or expanded details since I can't remember the particulars of what everyone has posted.

[Nightmask]

My deal breaker is rampant and favoritized munchkinism. i.e. favorites get to be munchkin, no one else does.

Vast and sweeping house rules that have no support in the game, make no sense, and aren't informed to the group.

Constant interruptions of both the game and myself. I can tolerate a bit of being interrupted, but it's highly disrespectful.

On that note, lack of respect. For myself, for the gm by players, between other players ect.

Sometimes i walk because i just dislike the people in game. rare.

Sometimes i walk because of the setting. I just dont like some settings. Currently playing in one such setting. Like everything but the lack of freedom to do what I want. its so much fun that the occasional infraction is tolerated. It isnt such a gross restriction that i cant stand it.

Other players trying to control my characters actions, or someone telling me what my character would or would not do.

Munchkins. People who show blatant disregard for setting, rules, the other players fun, the gm's setting, and generally show a lack of respect towards all these things. I walk on munchkins. Always. I refuse to interact with them.

Munchkin gm's. If it seems like the setting is trying to kill us, and I didn't sign up for survival horror, I walk. Note I said setting. If the world itself has it out for me, and its by all rights shouldn't, I'm done. If the enemies are deliberately overpowered and give a sense of despair towards beating them, I can't enjoy the fight. I'm not going to bother dreading every encounter if I didn't decide to join a setting where I should.

Stupidity. I am intolerant at best in all situations where it rears its ugly head.

Unpleasant surroundings. If I'm not comfortable at the game location, I leave.

Arbitrary restrictions. A simple and unreasonable restriction to my freedom. deciding I absolutely can't do something by any means, for no legitimate reason, just because, and when there is no game/setting reason why I can't. Preventing me from roleplaying my character as I choose. Preventing me from having fun essentially, especially harmless fun.

Those are all good ones, especially the GM having house rules that make no sense at all. One GM I knew had decided that he felt the rules of the game were bad when it came to dodging because it gave someone like Aunt May a chance to dodge a hit from Thor so he declared that if you were more than a step below the superior Fighter in ability you couldn't dodge, at all. So he massively broke things to 'fix' something that shouldn't come up in a game as a problem in the first place. Imagine your highly skilled fighter going into a battle against a master and hearing 'sorry there Ziggurat but you can't dodge his attacks ever, you're good but he's just a little bit better and being just a bit better means you don't even get a slight chance of dodging'.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

Spoiler:

My deal breaker is rampant and favoritized munchkinism. i.e. favorites get to be munchkin, no one else does.

Vast and sweeping house rules that have no support in the game, make no sense, and aren't informed to the group.

Constant interruptions of both the game and myself. I can tolerate a bit of being interrupted, but it's highly disrespectful.

On that note, lack of respect. For myself, for the gm by players, between other players ect.

Sometimes i walk because i just dislike the people in game. rare.

Sometimes i walk because of the setting. I just dont like some settings. Currently playing in one such setting. Like everything but the lack of freedom to do what I want. its so much fun that the occasional infraction is tolerated. It isnt such a gross restriction that i cant stand it.

Other players trying to control my characters actions, or someone telling me what my character would or would not do.

Munchkins. People who show blatant disregard for setting, rules, the other players fun, the gm's setting, and generally show a lack of respect towards all these things. I walk on munchkins. Always. I refuse to interact with them.

Munchkin gm's. If it seems like the setting is trying to kill us, and I didn't sign up for survival horror, I walk. Note I said setting. If the world itself has it out for me, and its by all rights shouldn't, I'm done. If the enemies are deliberately overpowered and give a sense of despair towards beating them, I can't enjoy the fight. I'm not going to bother dreading every encounter if I didn't decide to join a setting where I should.

Stupidity. I am intolerant at best in all situations where it rears its ugly head.

Unpleasant surroundings. If I'm not comfortable at the game location, I leave.

Arbitrary restrictions. A simple and unreasonable restriction to my freedom. deciding I absolutely can't do something by any means, for no legitimate reason, just because, and when there is no game/setting reason why I can't. Preventing me from roleplaying my character as I choose. Preventing me from having fun essentially, especially harmless fun.

Those are all good ones, especially the GM having house rules that make no sense at all. One GM I knew had decided that he felt the rules of the game were bad when it came to dodging because it gave someone like Aunt May a chance to dodge a hit from Thor so he declared that if you were more than a step below the superior Fighter in ability you couldn't dodge, at all. So he massively broke things to 'fix' something that shouldn't come up in a game as a problem in the first place. Imagine your highly skilled fighter going into a battle against a master and hearing 'sorry there Ziggurat but you can't dodge his attacks ever, you're good but he's just a little bit better and being just a bit better means you don't even get a slight chance of dodging'.

I'd walk out so hard I'd leave gravel footprints in the floor. Even if it was made of wood or carpet. I'd alter reality by storming out that intensely. Especially since I am a Blackbelt, and have been very heavily tagged by amateurs. Even Joe No-fighting-skill off the street can lay a man out, even if the man has massive "kung fu" what have you. All you gotta do is hit, and luck will suffice. Thats like saying that throwing a nuke at someone wont hurt them, because they were 3' outside the radius. If someone had a single key-up on me, they were in for a fight. Otherwise one would not continue to gain ranks. it would make an rpg unplayable.

It would also lay down a precedent for him dodging all your attacks, cuz he was a little bit better.

[Nightmask]

I'd walk out so hard I'd leave gravel footprints in the floor. Even if it was made of wood or carpet. I'd alter reality by storming out that intensely. Especially since I am a Blackbelt, and have been very heavily tagged by amateurs. Even Joe No-fighting-skill off the street can lay a man out, even if the man has massive "kung fu" what have you. All you gotta do is hit, and luck will suffice. Thats like saying that throwing a nuke at someone wont hurt them, because they were 3' outside the radius. If someone had a single key-up on me, they were in for a fight. Otherwise one would not continue to gain ranks. it would make an rpg unplayable.

It would also lay down a precedent for him dodging all your attacks, cuz he was a little bit better.

I think that was also on the flipside of things come to think of it. Really was ignoring the reality of things since even world class fighters can miss on occasion against an amateur and we're talking a fantasy setting where things are beyond the possible in reality. Since it's entirely possible in reality it should certainly be possible in a game. If it can happen in reality it shouldn't be impossible in a game whatever it might be.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

Seriously. I'd hate on that gm and game so hard. no second chances. If i dont have fun im out.

[Balabanto]

Most of the characters in my Rifts game are pretty much "What interests people." We don't have a lot of power gamers. We have powerful characters, but the world is still, by far, mightier than us. SDC and MDC characters are fairly evenly split. The only issue in the game is TW power creep, because custom TW items, while costing buckets of money, are protecting more than their fair share of tactical mistakes.

Of course, people don't gain XP real quick, either.

[Chronicle]

As far as deal breakers.

Rules lawyering (we have indoctrinated a story trumps rules motto as long as it doesn't totally become abused and turns things into a railroad.)

We don't allow rules laywers either. As long as the DM/GM/Storyteller is playing by the same rules as the players, we're assumed to have agreed that we are going to play under these rules, and trying to find loopholes in the rules is seen as breaking that agreement. As far is canon is concerned, though, to steal a phrase from Traveller "This is NOT the OTU, this is MTU." This is our campaign, not Kevin's or Carmen's or C.J.'s. The books may be 100% accurate for their games, but this is an alternate universe, parallel but not necessarily 100% identical to what is in print. In Our campaign, for example, Tolkeen might still stand, or have gone underground or something like the Federation's City Of Brass, or a Splynn Maxi-Killer Juicer assassin might have managed to successfully snipe Karl's son Joseph Prosek. Rest assured if there ARE changes you'll be told about them before the campaign starts, so don't gripe once the game has begun.

In game Knowledge. never a good thing ("hey lets go visit Archie" or "i wonder if Splynn is up the usual crap that i never got to run into"

Which is why we have each player write up and hand in a piece of short fiction about the character beforehand, so we can establish what the character knows (and doesn't know), and have the GM approve the character beforehand.

Another Deal Breaker is when a player uses his PC as an NPC to get the players to collect a few powerful items, which would then translate into him having these in my game Arguments about this still go on to this day as i state to him that there is no time for the character to get this item from one episode to the next without a lull in the current line of story.

...uh, wow... never had THAT happen in one of our games. Did anyone explain to that player that this is Rifts, and not Evercrack or WoW and that the other players aren't there to watch him (or her) gold-farm for the rest of the game session?

his Character was a spacial mage in a Campaign i was GMing called "The Forge Quest" (long ago involving mephisto wanting to awaken his old masters and trying to get to the forge to do it)

He dicided to run a game with us where he was GM and use his Character as an NPC to obtain some great magical ring that bestows awsomeness of some kind (Can't remember) The NPC was always shadowy and very difficult to identify.

I will cop to that loophole.

The ensuing argument has caused the group to impliment character lockouts. Not allowing a character busy in one game to not be involved in another. At the beginning of the Forgequest campaign we did the usual character overview and i noticed the relic we were supposed to find and was like "Whats this?" and then he said "Oh-yeah"


sad thing is we continued the game from the end of a combat scene. (Killed the baddies, distributed Exp the 1 night and finished up the loot the next session, litterally minutes apart in game time)

[Mech-Viper Prime]

so before joining one of my games here in maryland

Verbal agreements, or verbal contracts, are considered "common law" contracts and are legally binding in Maryland --- given some specific provisions. While verbal agreements are binding in most cases in Maryland, they can be difficult to uphold in a court of law without witnesses.

Elements

For a verbal agreement to be binding in Maryland, it must fulfill three elements. First, both parties must indicate their intent to enter into the contract. Second, the person to whom the contract is being offered must accept the terms of the contract. And third, both sides must exchange something of value. Additionally, a verbal agreement made in Maryland must provide a clear definition of a breach of contract, and offer an appropriate means of restitution.
Limitations

In Maryland, verbal agreements are as binding as written contracts, with some exceptions pertaining to Maryland's "statute of frauds". According to Maryland's statute of frauds, if more than $500 worth of goods is to be exchanged, the parties must put the details into a written contract, which then must be signed. Verbal agreements in Maryland are also not binding if they govern actions which take longer than one year to complete.
Issues

Verbal agreements are easily contested, particularly without impartial witnesses. It is best to consult with a legal professional before entering into a verbal agreement in Maryland.


Read more: Are Verbal Agreements Binding in Maryland? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_7477876_verba ... z1O2gZhqk9

[Illendaver]

So what are your deal-breakers then? What ones have been touched on and what ones haven't and why do they break the deal for you as a GM or as a player? If you've noted yours already a recap is fine, or expanded details since I can't remember the particulars of what everyone has posted.

You can't go back and look at old posts?
I have a problem with the GM putting in NPCs that are untouchable. This is pretty rare and I think it is something of a crutch for new GMs that haven't figured out how to NOT railroad the campaign, the NPC that is the major plot device and no matter what you do you have to do whatever they want you to do. Heck I have even gotten so irritated that I set up an explosion that leveled the house where one such NPC was (an old fart that owned half of the continent and was epic leveled... yeah, thats real fair...) he just walked out of the wreckage as if nothing had happend. If my choices don't have an effect in your game, then clearly I am not playing and there are better things I could be doing.

[Zer0 Kay]

so before joining one of my games here in maryland

Verbal agreements, or verbal contracts, are considered "common law" contracts and are legally binding in Maryland --- given some specific provisions. While verbal agreements are binding in most cases in Maryland, they can be difficult to uphold in a court of law without witnesses.

Elements

For a verbal agreement to be binding in Maryland, it must fulfill three elements. First, both parties must indicate their intent to enter into the contract. Second, the person to whom the contract is being offered must accept the terms of the contract. And third, both sides must exchange something of value. Additionally, a verbal agreement made in Maryland must provide a clear definition of a breach of contract, and offer an appropriate means of restitution.
Limitations

In Maryland, verbal agreements are as binding as written contracts, with some exceptions pertaining to Maryland's "statute of frauds". According to Maryland's statute of frauds, if more than $500 worth of goods is to be exchanged, the parties must put the details into a written contract, which then must be signed. Verbal agreements in Maryland are also not binding if they govern actions which take longer than one year to complete.
Issues

Verbal agreements are easily contested, particularly without impartial witnesses. It is best to consult with a legal professional before entering into a verbal agreement in Maryland.


Read more: Are Verbal Agreements Binding in Maryland? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_7477876_verba ... z1O2gZhqk9

Who has to thumbs and took a joke too far?... You did.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

so before joining one of my games here in maryland

Verbal agreements, or verbal contracts, are considered "common law" contracts and are legally binding in Maryland --- given some specific provisions. While verbal agreements are binding in most cases in Maryland, they can be difficult to uphold in a court of law without witnesses.

Elements

For a verbal agreement to be binding in Maryland, it must fulfill three elements. First, both parties must indicate their intent to enter into the contract. Second, the person to whom the contract is being offered must accept the terms of the contract. And third, both sides must exchange something of value. Additionally, a verbal agreement made in Maryland must provide a clear definition of a breach of contract, and offer an appropriate means of restitution.
Limitations

In Maryland, verbal agreements are as binding as written contracts, with some exceptions pertaining to Maryland's "statute of frauds". According to Maryland's statute of frauds, if more than $500 worth of goods is to be exchanged, the parties must put the details into a written contract, which then must be signed. Verbal agreements in Maryland are also not binding if they govern actions which take longer than one year to complete.
Issues

Verbal agreements are easily contested, particularly without impartial witnesses. It is best to consult with a legal professional before entering into a verbal agreement in Maryland.


Read more: Are Verbal Agreements Binding in Maryland? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_7477876_verba ... z1O2gZhqk9

Who has to thumbs and took a joke too far?... You did.

quiet you

[Zer0 Kay]

so before joining one of my games here in maryland

Verbal agreements, or verbal contracts, are considered "common law" contracts and are legally binding in Maryland --- given some specific provisions. While verbal agreements are binding in most cases in Maryland, they can be difficult to uphold in a court of law without witnesses.

Elements

For a verbal agreement to be binding in Maryland, it must fulfill three elements. First, both parties must indicate their intent to enter into the contract. Second, the person to whom the contract is being offered must accept the terms of the contract. And third, both sides must exchange something of value. Additionally, a verbal agreement made in Maryland must provide a clear definition of a breach of contract, and offer an appropriate means of restitution.
Limitations

In Maryland, verbal agreements are as binding as written contracts, with some exceptions pertaining to Maryland's "statute of frauds". According to Maryland's statute of frauds, if more than $500 worth of goods is to be exchanged, the parties must put the details into a written contract, which then must be signed. Verbal agreements in Maryland are also not binding if they govern actions which take longer than one year to complete.
Issues

Verbal agreements are easily contested, particularly without impartial witnesses. It is best to consult with a legal professional before entering into a verbal agreement in Maryland.


Read more: Are Verbal Agreements Binding in Maryland? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_7477876_verba ... z1O2gZhqk9

Who has to thumbs and took a joke too far?... You did.

quiet you

ok ok, please no more hit

[wyrmraker]

I'd walk out so hard I'd leave gravel footprints in the floor. Even if it was made of wood or carpet. I'd alter reality by storming out that intensely. Especially since I am a Blackbelt, and have been very heavily tagged by amateurs. Even Joe No-fighting-skill off the street can lay a man out, even if the man has massive "kung fu" what have you. All you gotta do is hit, and luck will suffice. Thats like saying that throwing a nuke at someone wont hurt them, because they were 3' outside the radius. If someone had a single key-up on me, they were in for a fight. Otherwise one would not continue to gain ranks. it would make an rpg unplayable.

It would also lay down a precedent for him dodging all your attacks, cuz he was a little bit better.

I think that was also on the flipside of things come to think of it. Really was ignoring the reality of things since even world class fighters can miss on occasion against an amateur and we're talking a fantasy setting where things are beyond the possible in reality. Since it's entirely possible in reality it should certainly be possible in a game. If it can happen in reality it shouldn't be impossible in a game whatever it might be.

When it comes to me not being able to lay a hand on an NPC because "He's just that good" I will not only demand that all rolls be done in full view of the entire group (we play in my living room; no central table), but I will also remind the GM that everyone has a base 20% chance of missing (1-4 automatically misses, period). Violating the odds willy-nilly is really close to deal-breaking.

[Blindscout]

quiet you

ok ok, please no more hit

Shush, ZK, you know you like it

[Nightmask]

I'd walk out so hard I'd leave gravel footprints in the floor. Even if it was made of wood or carpet. I'd alter reality by storming out that intensely. Especially since I am a Blackbelt, and have been very heavily tagged by amateurs. Even Joe No-fighting-skill off the street can lay a man out, even if the man has massive "kung fu" what have you. All you gotta do is hit, and luck will suffice. Thats like saying that throwing a nuke at someone wont hurt them, because they were 3' outside the radius. If someone had a single key-up on me, they were in for a fight. Otherwise one would not continue to gain ranks. it would make an rpg unplayable.

It would also lay down a precedent for him dodging all your attacks, cuz he was a little bit better.

I think that was also on the flipside of things come to think of it. Really was ignoring the reality of things since even world class fighters can miss on occasion against an amateur and we're talking a fantasy setting where things are beyond the possible in reality. Since it's entirely possible in reality it should certainly be possible in a game. If it can happen in reality it shouldn't be impossible in a game whatever it might be.

When it comes to me not being able to lay a hand on an NPC because "He's just that good" I will not only demand that all rolls be done in full view of the entire group (we play in my living room; no central table), but I will also remind the GM that everyone has a base 20% chance of missing (1-4 automatically misses, period). Violating the odds willy-nilly is really close to deal-breaking.

Well the idea that there was a slight chance of the better fighter missing was retained, but you didn't get to have any contribution to him missing. You could be dodging and weaving all over the place or standing still and he'd have the same chance of hitting you as your efforts were considered irrelevant to improving your chances of being missed. So if you didn't have something to block with or a power that helped you were pretty much screwed in a straight up fight. All your opponent had to do was get into hand-to-hand range and you were pretty much done for especially if the character was set up as less a combat type and more a thinker or techie or other kind of specialist and only had rudimentary fighting ability.

[Zer0 Kay]

quiet you

ok ok, please no more hit

Shush, ZK, you know you like it

Yeah... so? If I don't say anything it's no fun for him.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

quiet you

ok ok, please no more hit

Shush, ZK, you know you like it

Yeah... so? If I don't say anything it's no fun for him.

i said quiet you